Kids today....

Ponster

Here in France I'm involved in a youth club-thingy helping to keep kids off the streets, away from drugs, etc... and last week I sat down with them to put together a new computer from new parts due to cash donations and spare-parts donated from other leaders. I had a whole pile of old power supplies, motherboards and memory cards and after sorting them into piles, started building systems, matching up memory to motherboards (using the 'net), putting the SATA drives on the correct boards, making sure that power supplies were powerful enough and each computer had fans installed. After each one I ran memory tests, checked for systems that were running too hot and installed some free operating systems. In the end we found ourselves with 5 'new' computers.


The thing was, the kids there, from 12-22 years of age, were amazed. They thought that either I had gone to college to learn how to build these things or it was my job. Now these aren't poor kids. Most already had a computer at home and most of them were a lot more powerful that what we built together. It wasn't as though they had never seen one before but for most it was their first time seeing the inside of one.


I'm 34 years old and got my first computer in 1982. A band-spanking new Sinclair ZX81 with a whole 1KB of memory (doesn't seem like a lot but it was twice that of the memory of my uncle's computer, the ZX80).

In the coming years I believe that I 'mastered' it; figuring out what coding was and and what it did I soon needed a bigger buzz and got it when I received my Commodore C16. Again it took a couple of years before I was able to code not only in basic but in assembly language, self-taught via computer magazines and rainy weekends. This time though I learned how to take the thing apart and put it back together again. When a chip blew I was able to order a new one from the UK and replace it without blowing up anything else. I grew up taking computers and computer programs apart and seeing what they were made of.


So what I'd like to know if these kids are typical of the current generation?


Does the basic 16-year old get a new computer, play their games and download their warez until they need a newer and better computer without understanding how it works? Without knowing what to do/change when it breaks down?

Part of me thinks that this is normal. A new technology comes along and the lucky current youth generation grow up questioning it and discovering how it works. Before radios went digital my dad could take them apart no problem and change a blown capacitor but it was magic to me. I guess that the first car owners were much better mechanics than today's drivers.


Posted in AH for a more 'general' answer.

jellie

i would have absolutely no idea how to take apart / put together a computer. That said, ive never actually tried & if i was interested in doing it im sure id be able to find the info online. But its not really something ive ever felt the need to do..

oh, & i have a degree in computer science

Im pretty sure my brothers (17 and 20) would have absolutely no idea how the inside of a computer works, & both would use them regularly.

TerrorFirmer

Not really. Building machines is remarkably easy and far more straight forward then people realise....it's the same as it always was, people who are enthusiastic about computers, tweaking and modding etc build their own, those who don't know how/don't care how buy from Dell, PC World etc. That hasn't changed at all since I was a kid, and it's not really limited to any particular generation....loads of very young people posting on our own B&G forum here, and on various other enthusiast forums like Guru3d etc. None of my friends can build computers or know the first thing about their internals though and constantly ask 'wow, how can you do that'....as if it's some sort of learned skill. It's not, anyone can master it in a very short period of time. In fact the first time I built a computer years ago I hadn't a clue what I was doing and when I eventually got it finished about 4 hours later it powered on perfectly and I never had any hassle with it.

I'm 21 and the last time I bought a non self build was about 6/7 years ago, for reference.

seamus

Computers are consumer electronics now. They're no longer the domain of business people and computing enthusiasts. Back in the day, you didn't buy a PC without checking out its specs and without knowing exactly what each one meant, and getting a comprehensive list of the hardware inside.

But now they're more of a black box. They just work. To a certain extent, people will look at specs, but only in the "How many gigahertz of memory has it got" kind of way. The parents stick a new computer in the study/spare room and the kids use it. It just works. How it works or why it works doesn't matter to them. So they've no idea really what's inside.

They've been designed modular though so that they're easy for people like us to stick together, and quickly. What you did is the equivalent of sitting down and watching a guy put a car together, piece by piece, then sit in the front seat and turn on the engine. You wouldn't think it's amazing, but you'd be very impressed and give the guy a lot of kudos. A computer is just on a smaller scale.

TerrorFirmer

Actually a good point Seamus, computer hardware is so cheap these days, and price:performance is also far better, with even the most basic PC's being capable of blazing through the normal day to day tasks. 10 years ago a budget 'family' PC - read poor processor, memory, cheap bundled printer/speakers etc - would set you back a grand in Irish pounds, these days the equivilent package can be had for 400-500 euro. I remember my family spending about 2k on a Pentium 133mhz package back when it was the latest thing.....these days the equivilent would land you a monster gaming machine complete with 26" monitor.

So people can afford to remain as ignorant as they want. Ignorant as in disinterested in the know-how, not in an insulting manner, in case anyone misinterpets that.

Dragan

I have a lot of friends who work in IT Services at various levels, the one common issue they all have is people show up with problems with no clue as to how to use the very basics of their systems.

I mean, one guy didn't even know how to turn ON his Mac.

Just like anything else people will decide how much they want to learn about it. I mean, people drive cars who haven't a clue about engines.

Ponster

betafrog wrote: »

One of the third year students actually took his laptop to a support guy because he couldn't figure out why he couldn't connect to the WiFi, he had turned off his wireless card!!!
[/finish rant]

Yikes !

I actually started this thread due to a PC problem this morning at work. It was *very* slow in starting up and then I got a virtual memory error. I checked what I could, made a nice little package with screenshots of memory/CPU usage at startup and sent of an e-mail to our IT people.

The guy who finally contact me asked me to remove the virtual memory chip. After a pretty long pause I told him that I wasn't able to because there is no such thing as a "virtual memory chip". He told me that that was my problem, I was missing one. Rather than debate the issue I told him to order me some virtual memory and get back to me when it arrived

Ponster

Dragan wrote: »

Just like anything else people will decide how much they want to learn about it. I mean, people drive cars who haven't a clue about engines.

And my question is :

Did people in the 1980's when PCs were 'invented' more computer-savey than the current generation in the same way that I guess that someone who bought a car in 1920 was probably able to repair it whenever it broke down?

Miguel_Sanchez

I grew up with computers in my house from the early 80's onwards. As long as I can remember there has always been a computer about but despite having done a good bit of installing and removing graphic cards, network cards etc I still wouldn't be able to build a computer from scratch.

I would consider myself more computer literate than the average punter - I can sort out problems, install new stuff, etc etc. but most people I think don't care - as long as Word, MSN Messenger and Windows Explorer open and their DVD player works then they don't care too much about what goes on inside the machine.

thelordofcheese

betafrog wrote: »

OK no offence but that is absolutely ridiculous!

I'm most of the way through a CS degree myself and I must admit that the complete lack of knowledge among my fellow students of how computers are built, what devices do what etc is quite appaling, how we can be allowed to enter the IT industry with a CS degree without knowing the basics is beyond me, I can imagine one of my fellow students getting a job in support, taking one look at the inside of a machine and running for the hills.

I've been digging around inside computers since I was 10, its one of the reasons I took the course. But I know at lot of people I know only take the course because they were told its where the money and jobs are.

One of the third year students actually took his laptop to a support guy because he couldn't figure out why he couldn't connect to the WiFi, he had turned off his wireless card!!!

[/finish rant]

I finished a CS degree in 2004, even back then the amount of people who didn't know how to build a PC or even measure the performance accurately of a system made me want to vomit.
This was compounded by the fact that anyone i spoke to about this in the computing department considered this kind of 'hands on' stuff to be beneath the course and if i wanted to do that i should have gone to an IT.

tl;dr - If you're doing a CS course and can't assemble a PC, you're bad and you should feel bad.

Roadend

I predict that in the future computers will be 100 times bigger and will only be able to be afforded by the three richest kings of Europe.

Captain Chaos

Ponster wrote: »

The guy who finally contact me asked me to remove the virtual memory chip. After a pretty long pause I told him that I wasn't able to because there is no such thing as a "virtual memory chip". He told me that that was my problem, I was missing one. Rather than debate the issue I told him to order me some virtual memory and get back to me when it arrived

LOL!! brilliant, how some people get the jobs they are in I don't know. Even your average joe doing an ECDL course with know this IT guy has no idea what he's on about, well you'd like to think anyway.

I don't think it has anything to do with kids today. I think the majority of people don't have a reason to build or take apart a computer - why would you need to? It's a lot less important than knowing how an engine works, and most people haven't a clue about that either. Just because you're interested in computers doesn't mean everyone else should share your hobby I don't think people are stupid/weird because they can't cook anything other than beans on toast (cooking is a hobby for me) or say more than a few words of Spanish. People have different priorities.

I'm 23, I had old computers to mess with in the early 90's, I've built websites, but I wouldn't have a clue how to build a machine. Not because I think it's impossible, but because I simply have better things to do. I don't want or need to build a computer. When/if the need arises, I'll learn. That doesn't make me a stupid spoiled kid. There's no reason for the majority of people to know more than the very basics - that goes for kids, and most 40 year olds.

Wagon

It's part of my job to take the things apart and rebuild them. Many people don't bother their arse questioning how something works which is perfectly fine. Once it works is the important thing. I got into computer building because of my friend, who built a big ass gaming machine that could run...away. I wanted one too, so i got help from him and now im pretty respectable at it! And i was in college doing computer science and i learned more about hardware from him then that poxy class. Most people can't stand technology because it's a pain in the ass when it doesn't work. And also, hardware keeps getting more advanced and is constantly getting out of date. The best person top ask about PC hardware is a gamer. Kids don't care about this stuff as they were raised in a world of advanced technology where games look life like and people depend so much on PC's that they're everywhere. It's like when you wre younger and you looked at the toaster. Did you give a bollix how it worked or did you just want toast? Ask someone that a few years previously when they had a small one bread slice toaster and they'll say the watched it for feckin hours!

And what the feck is a virtual memory clip?!

WindSock

I haven't a clue how anything works. My ignorance should astound me but...meh.

Rsaeire

I find that as computers have gotten more popular, the prices have come down; obviously this is a given in any market, but it means it's a win for everyone involved, technically minded or not, and ensures someone who is skilled in building, maintaining or fixing computers will always be sought after.

I built my first PC several years ago and had trouble as I was in over my head. After I got it working, eventually, I then upgraded bits and pieces every now and again, learning about power distribution e.g. ensuring that I didn't put most of my components on the one rail, the different connection types for CPUs, hard drives, graphics cards etc and understanding how all the parts fit together like a jigsaw puzzle.

I also find that Dell, HP etc are good in that you can buy a PC or laptop dirt cheap without having to worry about putting it together yourself. I think of building PCs now as more of a hobby and use a “black box” PC over a custom-build merely for stability. This might change in the future but for now I'm happy with my Dell Vostro 200MT that I bought thanks to the Bargain alerts forum.

Dinter

No idea at all about computers or in fact most of the electronics I use every day.

At home I have a massively powerful computer I use for typing and the internet. I managed to lock myself out of my internet trying to add WEP security so I'd to start a thread on Boards to get told what to do.

In fact I've a thread running to decide what sort of a tv to buy because I understand none of the mumbo jumbo on the websites. I've a couple of suggestions so I'll get one of them.

That's why I love boards.

Roadend

Dinter wrote: »

In fact I've a thread running to decide what sort of a tv to buy

If you like watching TV and I mean really watching TV you'll want the Carnivale featuring three pronged wall plug and durable outer casing to prevent fall apart.

Nevyn

Ponster wrote: »

And my question is :

Did people in the 1980's when PCs were 'invented' more computer-savey than the current generation in the same way that I guess that someone who bought a car in 1920 was probably able to repair it whenever it broke down?

Yes.

These days parents don't' want kids taking things apart for fear they will void the warrenty and 'break' it. People are discouraged in taking things apart as it si assumed it takes 'specialist' knowledge and companies make money from support contracts.

uglyjohn

i suppose back in the day computers were so expensive and such a luxury that if you bought one you were probably enthuasiastic about them and made damn sure you did your research before forking out. having done the research and invested all your money id say you'd want to know how it works.

we got our first computer in the late 80s, my dad got it from work and from what i remember he knew a fair bit about how it worked....not that i think about it, i have no idea why he bought it or what he used it for. i think he used excel for a bit of family finance calculation but there must have been more than just that.

seamus

Ponster wrote: »

And my question is :

Did people in the 1980's when PCs were 'invented' more computer-savey than the current generation in the same way that I guess that someone who bought a car in 1920 was probably able to repair it whenever it broke down?

I think it can actually be boiled down to convenience and simplicity, The goal is to make stuff just work without any intervention from the buyer. That's how you make the transition from enthusaist/sadist to the general public. There was a time when you bought computers and/or their components, and if you didn't know how to use a soldering iron you were out of luck.

Similarly, I imagine there was a certain amount of manual labour and assembly required to get your car on the road back in the 1920's.

Epic Tissue

Nothing wrong with not knowing how to build a computer. It's easy, but also pointless when you can just buy one.

thelordofcheese

Epic Tissue wrote: »

Nothing wrong with not knowing how to build a computer. It's easy, but also pointless when you can just buy one.

Enjoy being ripped off for repairs and IT support!

Donald-Duck

thelordofcheese wrote: »

Enjoy being ripped off for repairs and IT support!

He knows how to do it.

rainbow kirby

thelordofcheese wrote: »

tl;dr - If you're doing a CS course and can't assemble a PC, you're bad and you should feel bad.

I'm in my final year of CS - for college work and most other purposes I use a Mac, but for "poking around and breaking stuff" purposes I have a 6 year old machine at home running Ubuntu. If I want to try anything with it I've no worries about breaking it because I've already broken it about 5-6 times before, and replaced most of the internal parts already.

I used to work tech support too, and the level of knowledge of computers required for a job where I was working was almost non-existent. People would act surprised if their issue was solved over the phone rather than being put into a queue waiting for the local IT guy.

daveharnett

Ponster wrote: »

So what I'd like to know if these kids are typical of the current generation?

Does the basic 16-year old get a new computer, play their games and download their warez until they need a newer and better computer without understanding how it works? Without knowing what to do/change when it breaks down?

The 'basic' 16 year old has grown up with consoles which are difficult to tinker with by design, so no they don't know how they work.

There is also an economic factor. I have built PCs in the past, but my last two have been off the shelf from HP and Dell - their economies of scale means that they can provide better value for money than the component stores.

Of course, some kids have an interest in hardware, I don't think that has changed much. But now they have much less leverage to pester their parents for cash for parts - it's often cheaper/easier to replace a machine than upgrade/fix it, especially when you throw a warranty and tech support into the mix.

Silenceisbliss

just for the record, im 21 and ín my opinion, it's all down to your upbringing.

I know my way blindfolded throughout most computers, I've built all the pc's at home and im the family IT guy (pays pretty lousy:(). I will take anything mechanical/electrical appart within a heartbeat. neither my mum nor either of my two sisters understand this at all, however my dad is the same as me. both of us have as a result grown up into engineering proffesions.

whereas me and my dad would currently have different inhibitions to messing with stuff (i.e. me having none, and my dad being older, wiser, and more sensible and out of touch a little with all this new gadgetry) we both pretty much have the same state of mind towards it.

One MAJOR contribution to the "take everything appart" attitude is...wait for it... LEGO!

In my engineering course, the conversation came up before about childhood toys...EVERY SINGLE PERSON played with lego, all the girls aswell. IMO, LEGO deveolpes a logical and technical mind from a young age, it feeds and grows an interest in assembling things, in our minds....taking things appart is fun!

even my GF played with lego as a kid, shes a graphical designer and general all round girly girl, however...I cought her one day taking her broken coffee machine apart with a screwdriver (the correct one and all!) and she found the problem, fixed and put it back together all by herself! i was very proud.

My sisters however played with barbie, trolls, and teddies....they cant change a lightbulb and are in psychology and physiotherapy. point in case.

Lego shops are full of miniture engineers of the future.:)

Jumpy

Ponster wrote: »

Yikes !

I actually started this thread due to a PC problem this morning at work. It was *very* slow in starting up and then I got a virtual memory error. I checked what I could, made a nice little package with screenshots of memory/CPU usage at startup and sent of an e-mail to our IT people.

The guy who finally contact me asked me to remove the virtual memory chip. After a pretty long pause I told him that I wasn't able to because there is no such thing as a "virtual memory chip". He told me that that was my problem, I was missing one. Rather than debate the issue I told him to order me some virtual memory and get back to me when it arrived

This post smacks to me of "Urban Legend", no IT guy could be that dumb.

Jesus, I hope they couldnt be anyway.

thelordofcheese

Silenceisbliss wrote: »

just for the record, im 21 and ín my opinion, it's all down to your upbringing.

I know my way blindfolded throughout most computers, I've built all the pc's at home and im the family IT guy (pays pretty lousy:(). I will take anything mechanical/electrical appart within a heartbeat. neither my mum nor either of my two sisters understand this at all, however my dad is the same as me. both of us have as a result grown up into engineering proffesions.

whereas me and my dad would currently have different inhibitions to messing with stuff (i.e. me having none, and my dad being older, wiser, and more sensible and out of touch a little with all this new gadgetry) we both pretty much have the same state of mind towards it.

One MAJOR contribution to the "take everything appart" attitude is...wait for it... LEGO!

In my engineering course, the conversation came up before about childhood toys...EVERY SINGLE PERSON played with lego, all the girls aswell. IMO, LEGO deveolpes a logical and technical mind from a young age, it feeds and grows an interest in assembling things, in our minds....taking things appart is fun!

even my GF played with lego as a kid, shes a graphical designer and general all round girly girl, however...I cought her one day taking her broken coffee machine apart with a screwdriver (the correct one and all!) and she found the problem, fixed and put it back together all by herself! i was very proud.

My sisters however played with barbie, trolls, and teddies....they cant change a lightbulb and are in psychology and physiotherapy. point in case.

Lego shops are full of miniture engineers of the future.:)

waitasecond, isn't most lego these days those rubbish premoulded ones that you can only make a few things out of?

dade

Jumpy wrote: »

This post smacks to me of "Urban Legend", no IT guy could be that dumb.

Jesus, I hope they couldnt be anyway.

no it's probably be true and he'll end up running the department. i had a boss like that once dumb as a door knob. just figured we could switch on a server with the same applications and the users could automatically use it in a fail over situation even though we resolved the host name of the server he was trying to protect using an LMhost file on each machine and not DNS. Oh and his degree was in Geology

Silenceisbliss

thelordofcheese wrote: »

waitasecond, isn't most lego these days those rubbish premoulded ones that you can only make a few things out of?

yeah your right actually!

back in my day (oh god...) we had random lego blocks of random different colours lieing around our floors waiting to be stood on in the middle of the night.

we used our imaginations and made multi coloured monstrosoties!

Cormic

Jumpy wrote: »

This post smacks to me of "Urban Legend", no IT guy could be that dumb.

Jesus, I hope they couldnt be anyway.

Yeah - everyone knows that Virtual Memory Chips are built onto the Motherboard now.

Ponster

Jumpy wrote: »

This post smacks to me of "Urban Legend", no IT guy could be that dumb.

Alas yes. Had it not been so early I would have stood my ground but It was pre-coffee time and our Helpdesk is in Egypt and wasn't in the mood to speak International English that early.


So....

I've been able to suggest 'cars', 'crystal radio sets' and 'PCs' as examples of a trend or new tech that was discovered by the youth of the day. Is there anything that the current generation have that some people purchase to use while others purchase to use but also need to understand? Electronics getting smaller means that there's no point in opening an ipod to "see what's inside". Will future generations lose that spark of curiosity as technology is spoon-fed to them?

Silenceisbliss

Cormic wrote: »

Yeah - everyone knows that Virtual Memory Chips are built onto the Motherboard now.

....fail.

virtual memory chip...no such thing....

virtual memory.... space on your HDD that acts as ram.

again....you are a fail

HOW COULD YOU NOT KNOW THAT! OMFG!

Cookie_Monster

Ponster wrote: »

Here in France I'm involved in a youth club-thingy helping to keep kids off the streets, away from drugs, etc... and last week I sat down with them to put together a new computer from new parts due to cash donations and spare-parts donated from other leaders. I had a whole pile of old power supplies, motherboards and memory cards and after sorting them into piles, started building systems, matching up memory to motherboards (using the 'net), putting the SATA drives on the correct boards, making sure that power supplies were powerful enough and each computer had fans installed. After each one I ran memory tests, checked for systems that were running too hot and installed some free operating systems. In the end we found ourselves with 5 'new' computers.


The thing was, the kids there, from 12-22 years of age, were amazed. They thought that either I had gone to college to learn how to build these things or it was my job. Now these aren't poor kids. Most already had a computer at home and most of them were a lot more powerful that what we built together. It wasn't as though they had never seen one before but for most it was their first time seeing the inside of one.


I'm 34 years old and got my first computer in 1982. A band-spanking new Sinclair ZX81 with a whole 1KB of memory (doesn't seem like a lot but it was twice that of the memory of my uncle's computer, the ZX80).

In the coming years I believe that I 'mastered' it; figuring out what coding was and and what it did I soon needed a bigger buzz and got it when I received my Commodore C16. Again it took a couple of years before I was able to code not only in basic but in assembly language, self-taught via computer magazines and rainy weekends. This time though I learned how to take the thing apart and put it back together again. When a chip blew I was able to order a new one from the UK and replace it without blowing up anything else. I grew up taking computers and computer programs apart and seeing what they were made of.


So what I'd like to know if these kids are typical of the current generation?


Does the basic 16-year old get a new computer, play their games and download their warez until they need a newer and better computer without understanding how it works? Without knowing what to do/change when it breaks down?

Part of me thinks that this is normal. A new technology comes along and the lucky current youth generation grow up questioning it and discovering how it works. Before radios went digital my dad could take them apart no problem and change a blown capacitor but it was magic to me. I guess that the first car owners were much better mechanics than today's drivers.


Posted in AH for a more 'general' answer.

What happened to the little elf inside that magics up the image on the screen? How'd you stop them escaping when pulling the pc apart?

Silenceisbliss

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

What happened to the little elf inside that magics up the image on the screen? How'd you stop them escaping when pulling the pc apart?

jsut make sure the files dont fall out when you move the computer before opening it!

A Primal Nut

Lol @ the virtual memory thing...sure he didn't mean allocate more space to virtual memory/free up space on hard disk/buy a bigger hard drive?

I don't think this is necessarily a problem with kids today. When I was growing up (1990s) my Dad could never understand why I wasn't fascinated by electricity and cars, but i didn't know where to start. Anything I learned in Science class made no sense to me at the time. I was vaguely interested but didn't want to put the effort into find out and when my dad tried to explain it I was usually baffled. I think he assumed I had more basic knowledge than I actually did. I really didn't have a clue.

Then we got our first computer (I was about 12) and for whatever reason I started exploring a lot more and fixing things. I think the great thing about editing settings on software there is always an undo function..very hard to break anything...I began to understand the inner workings of a computer whereas my dad was now a bit out of his depth...understood a bit about the hardware but nothing about the software. Family computers were a new technology and it was necessary to learn how they worked to maximise performance, as I was the one trying to play games.

I then did Electrical/Electronic Engineering...was looking forward to finally understanding how all the hardware worked...didn't learn anything useful till maybe fourth year. I'd imagine its the same with Computer Science so can't blame the students really. So I began to read about it myself mostly on HowStuffWorks. This is the only way I actually found out about all this stuff.

I guess when you are around as a new technology is started its easier to get familiar with how it all works but once its reached its prime the new generation don't care anymore...but when something new comes along (such as the IPhone) they can instantly figure out how to use it, whereas my dad would take ages, even though he has more of an idea how the thing works inside.

There is no education of how cars or computer works in primary or secondary school so how can you blame these kids for not knowing how it works? No unqualified person could look at an electronic circuit and know what all the components do. For that reason I think the OP is being a bit harsh on people who don't understand how a computer works. This stuff is never thought in school. I have no doubt students would be interested in this stuff and more would do engineering and science, if this stuff was thought this way, without maths or complicated physics, such as how things are explained on HowStuffWorks. It would make Science a lot more interesting for secondary school students than trying to learn every element in the periodic table. Taking things apart isn't always an option when it comes to expensive laptops and cars.

I've never built a PC, I'd imagine its fairly straightforward, what would impress me is if someone built a microprocessor chip. It still baffles me how they put that many transistors on such small an area and make it all work.

Overheal

The big reason kids dont know **** about computers is they dont need to. They have no respect for the machines because technically, its their parents's machine. Or, that, plus theyve always had computers at their disposal from day one, so it was never anything new or fascinating to them. When it breaks down, you bother your parents until they buy a new one. so long as you can keep one machine alive for 2 years, you're sorted.

I mean as an infant there was a Win 3.1 machine, and I could navigate DOS so I could get to the games but it was still a total mystery to me. I always like computers because I never got in front of one as much as I would have like but it wasn't until I spent my own money to buy my own computer that I learned everything that was involved. Still cant fully grasp assembly though.

The best places to start though are the hobbies: lego, RC cars (very customizable really), Bicycles require a fair bit of know-how. but more importantly, it has to be theirs, and they have to want it.

Nevyn

Silenceisbliss wrote: »

yeah your right actually!

back in my day (oh god...) we had random lego blocks of random different colours lieing around our floors waiting to be stood on in the middle of the night.

we used our imaginations and made multi coloured monstrosoties!

Mine still do that, the aqua lego and starwars lego just ended up mixed in with the standard lego.

Ponster

A Primal Nut wrote: »

There is no education of how cars or computer works in primary or secondary school so how can you blame these kids for not knowing how it works? No unqualified person could look at an electronic circuit and know what all the components do. For that reason I think the OP is being a bit harsh on people who don't understand how a computer works.

I met a guy last year, about my age, aand he was earning $$$ repairing peoples computers. He said that there was too much work for everyone and he could afford to work a 4-day week quite easily. He was either cleaning out PCs infected with malware/spyware and installing a suite of free software to keep the machines clean (~80% of clients) or upgrading/repairing hardware (20%). I had always presumed that he would only get business from people who were above a certain age (lets say 55) and missed the PC boat in the 1980's. People who had never understood that there was almost always an 'undo' button. That turning a machine off and on again was 'ok'

But he told me that a lot of the time it's families with kids who IMHO should be able to fix their family computer themselves. The guy believed that a generation of kids grew up with game consoles and were less likely to take a screwdriver to a PC to see what was inside. I can understand that some kids just aren't interested. When I was growing up computers were new and shiny so there was an interest in them that may not be there now. When I think that *my* kids will grow up thinking that the Internet has always been with us and information is only a Google away it shocks me. It just seems too easy


If the kids of today aren't able to take apart and rebuild a computer as I learned to do 20 years ago than that's fine with me. Does it mean that people take electronic goods more for granted than 20 years ago Id have to say "yes". It's maybe not a bad thing and maybe computers will end up the same way radios have done, to the extent that they no longer become 'self-buildable' as such and every pc is a "blackbox".

Epic Tissue

Today's lego looks alright

Overheal

go to http://gizmodo.com and put lego into their search engine: they're privately obsessed with the little plastic things and have gotten their fair shair of exclusives at the lego factory.

Epic: I can beat that - http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/poseidon.s-lego-set/lego-aircraft-carrier-has-small-gravitational-pull-279074.php

_feedback_

Don't know the first thing about computers (insides)

I did however install a CDR drive on one years ago, and when it worked I felt like an absolute genius.

A Primal Nut

Ponster wrote: »

I met a guy last year, about my age, aand he was earning $$$ repairing peoples computers. He said that there was too much work for everyone and he could afford to work a 4-day week quite easily. He was either cleaning out PCs infected with malware/spyware and installing a suite of free software to keep the machines clean (~80% of clients) or upgrading/repairing hardware (20%). I had always presumed that he would only get business from people who were above a certain age (lets say 55) and missed the PC boat in the 1980's. People who had never understood that there was almost always an 'undo' button. That turning a machine off and on again was 'ok'

But he told me that a lot of the time it's families with kids who IMHO should be able to fix their family computer themselves. The guy believed that a generation of kids grew up with game consoles and were less likely to take a screwdriver to a PC to see what was inside. I can understand that some kids just aren't interested. When I was growing up computers were new and shiny so there was an interest in them that may not be there now. When I think that *my* kids will grow up thinking that the Internet has always been with us and information is only a Google away it shocks me. It just seems too easy


If the kids of today aren't able to take apart and rebuild a computer as I learned to do 20 years ago than that's fine with me. Does it mean that people take electronic goods more for granted than 20 years ago Id have to say "yes". It's maybe not a bad thing and maybe computers will end up the same way radios have done, to the extent that they no longer become 'self-buildable' as such and every pc is a "blackbox".

I agree. Its weird to think the next generation will grow up taking google, wikipedia and youtube for granted.

But maybe something else will come along for them which they will take a curiosity in. Whose gradual introduction will allow them to understand it over time.

I'm sure there were things which you took for granted when you were growing up; you mentioned radios; perhaps cars, generation/transmission of electricity, building a house, etc. Whereas my father's generation was a lot more fascinated, most of those know how to fix many common problems with a car.

ScumLord

I grew up with computers so I got to take them apart when I was young (then got beat for taking the computer apart) I feel like I'm getting old though, I used to love them now I hate them their the bain of my life and it seems their only put here on earth to make my life more difficult. All the computers I've put together lately don't work properly or have some bizare quirk (all technology is getting like that around me, I have to beat my tele before it'll work).

I remember it used to be easier back in the day. Everything just worked and you didn't have a computer that gave out or second guessed every little thing you did.

It is weird to see my nephew grow up with all the things that where new to me growing up and how esaly he picks it all up. He'll never know tape or floppy disk.

delly

From my mother's first wang 386 to todays PC's, I have always messed about with them. As well as working in IT, I am also the family's goto guy when it comes to PC problems to the point where I have a ghost image of most of my families computers, ready to restore.

Regarding LEGO, I loved the stuff and had many countless hours building new and crazy buildings. When my nipper is old enough, I'm gonna make sure its on her toylist as I think it really makes a difference in development.

ScumLord

Epic Tissue wrote: »

Today's lego looks alright

That's cool.

I used to get a technic set every Christmas. I keep eyeing them up everytime I'm in a toyshop may break down and get one some time they look like there ten times better than when I was young they where just starting to experiment with electrics. The last one I had was either a crane or a plotting device.

thelordofcheese

delly wrote: »

From my mother's first wang

Yore Ma is Yore Da?

Conor108

Hmm Im 16 (almost 17) and could build one if needed. Was living in a foreign country when we got our first PC, I was 9 so I used it alot and learnt all kinds of stuff over the years:D

delly

thelordofcheese wrote: »

Yore Ma is Yore Da?

So that explains what the song goldie looking chain wrote for me was about.