Are extended warranties really necessary?

Elessar

I've recently sent my Macbook Pro notebook in for repair under Apple's applecare warranty, which extends their one year warranty to three years from date of purchase.

I was thinking though, that is the few hundred euro I spent really necessary considering my statutory rights? The laptop is just under two years old and it cost close to 2k. I know that under the law I have a "reasonable expectation" for the goods to be fit for purpose for a "reasonable" amount of time.

Personally, I would consider that having a 2000 euro laptop be of merchantable quality for a period of two years is a reasonable expectation. Now, if I had not bought the warranty, it wouldn't be unreasonable of me considering the law to request a repair or failing that a replacement/refund because of this fault anyway. Would anyone else agree?

I am actually glad I bought Applecare but it is an extended warranty that only supplements my statutory rights, not replaces them.

Obviously anyone would have a hard time convincing Apple of this, so the small claims court may have to be brought in.

Regardless, my question is are extended warranties on goods really necessary when you think about it, considering statutory law?

Mods feel free to move this to the law forum if you think it is more suitable.

craichoe

Elessar wrote: »

I've recently sent my Macbook Pro notebook in for repair under Apple's applecare warranty, which extends their one year warranty to three years from date of purchase.

I was thinking though, that is the few hundred euro I spent really necessary considering my statutory rights? The laptop is just under two years old and it cost close to 2k. I know that under the law I have a "reasonable expectation" for the goods to be fit for purpose for a "reasonable" amount of time.

Personally, I would consider that having a 2000 euro laptop be of merchantable quality for a period of two years is a reasonable expectation. Now, if I had not bought the warranty, it wouldn't be unreasonable of me considering the law to request a repair or failing that a replacement/refund because of this fault anyway. Would anyone else agree?

I am actually glad I bought Applecare but it is an extended warranty that only supplements my statutory rights, not replaces them.

Obviously anyone would have a hard time convincing Apple of this, so the small claims court may have to be brought in.

Regardless, my question is are extended warranties on goods really necessary when you think about it, considering statutory law?

Mods feel free to move this to the law forum if you think it is more suitable.

If you read the T&C's of the Protection Plan, its not actually a warranty at all, and just provides extra support outside the 90 days telephone support. It also gives you pickup and return services outside the normal 1 year, but in no way entitles you to a replacement outside that year.

Gillo

craichoe wrote: »

If you read the T&C's of the Protection Plan, its not actually a warranty at all, and just provides extra support outside the 90 days telephone support.

It covers repair doesn't it??

I've heard that Apple are a nightmare to deal with outside of warranty so buying it may be a good idea, generally I don't buy them as the companies make a massive profit on the warranties. That said (luckily) I've never had anything break eighteen months down the line.

Elessar

craichoe wrote: »

If you read the T&C's of the Protection Plan, its not actually a warranty at all, and just provides extra support outside the 90 days telephone support. It also gives you pickup and return services outside the normal 1 year, but in no way entitles you to a replacement outside that year.

That's not the point. If I don't have applecare, after the first 12 months if something goes wrong and it's within a "reasonable" amount of time, the law states that I have a right to a repair/replacement/refund (sellers discretion). If the item had to be sent in two or three times, I'd have a case for a replacement or refund aswell.

I guess applecare negates the hassle of trying to convince a company like Apple about the law, but really I think it is unnecessary.

the_syco

Personally, I would consider that having a 2000 euro laptop be of merchantable quality for a period of two years is a reasonable expectation

LOL. 2 years? Try 12 months. IIRC, "rights" doesn't always equal "law".

Elessar wrote: »

after the first 12 months if something goes wrong and it's within a "reasonable" amount of time, the law states that I have a right to a repair/replacement/refund (sellers discretion).

Erm, 28 days is the "reasonable amount of time", with the 12 months being the warranty. Extended warranty is just that. Extended beyond the 12 months.

craichoe

Elessar wrote: »

That's not the point. If I don't have applecare, after the first 12 months if something goes wrong and it's within a "reasonable" amount of time, the law states that I have a right to a repair/replacement/refund (sellers discretion). If the item had to be sent in two or three times, I'd have a case for a replacement or refund aswell.

I guess applecare negates the hassle of trying to convince a company like Apple about the law, but really I think it is unnecessary.

Good luck with that one. I wouldn't bother with the extended warranty myself. The only thing the Applecare Protection Plan is good for (if you need it) is telephone support.

Padraig Mor

Are all goods sold in the EU not subject to a two year warranty by law? Or is that just cars?

Flaccus

The European law linked to below (Directive 1999/44/EC) which is ratified in Irish law, gives special consideration for Irish consumers. We enjoy 6 years cover (unlike most Europeans who get 2).This is so as not to contradict the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act 1980 and the Statute of Limitations which allows you to claim against a manufacturer for up to 6 years. So the poster above who said the reasonable amount of time is 28 days and the warranty is 1 year is incorrect. What a manufacturer gives you is nothing more than a 1 year voluntary guarantee and does not infringe upon your statutory rights.

http://www.euroconsumatori.org/16856v18340d18510.html

Main points are below.
1. In Ireland consumers have a right to a minimum guarantee of six years on products.

2. In the first six months any lack of conformity shall be presumed to have existed at the time of delivery, unless proved otherwise.

3. After the first six months it is up to the consumer to prove that the lack of conformity existed at the time of delivery.

4. In the first 2 years the consumer is entitled to have the goods brought into conformity free of charge. In the first place, the consumer may require the seller to repair the goods or he may require the seller to replace them, unless this is impossible or disproportionate.

5. Any repair or replacement shall be completed within a reasonable time and without any significant inconvenience to the consumer, taking account of the nature of the goods and the purpose for which the consumer required the goods. If this should not be possible the consumer is entitled to ask for a price reduction (smaller defects) or to have the contract rescinded.

6. After the first 2 years compensation can be claimed against the supplier of the goods only if the consumer can prove that it is reasonable for the goods to last that long. Clearly this does not cover wear and tear faults.

And here is the link to the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act 1980. Tough reading though.
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1980/en/act/pub/0016/sec0016.html

Main points are :
1. Goods must be of merchantable quality – goods should be of reasonable quality taking into account what they are meant to do, their durability and their price

2. Goods must be fit for their purpose – they must do what they are reasonably expected to do

3. Goods must be as described - the buyer must not be mislead into buying something by the description of goods or services given orally by a salesperson or an advertisement.

Probably the 1st step though in making a complaint/claim is to follow these steps :
http://www.consumerconnect.ie/eng/Learning_Zone/How_to_Complain/

If you find you are getting nowhere, you can contact the National Consumer Agency for advice (they took over from consumer affairs since May of last year) :
National Consumer Agency
4 Harcourt Road
County:
Dublin 2
Country:
IRELAND
Opening Hours:
- Lines open Monday - Friday 8am - 6pm
Locall:
1890 432 432
Fax:
353 (1) 402 5501
Homepage:
http://www.consumerconnect.ie


In all likelihood it will be Small Claims Court time which works for anything valued under 2k euro and the manufacturer can’t claim damaged in case you loose.

Here are a couple of decent guides :
http://www.consumerconnect.ie/eng/Learning_Zone/Consumer_Booklets/Small_Claims_Court_booklet.pdf
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/justice/courts-system/small_claims_court

And you can apply online too. (needs a pin)
https://smallclaims.courts.ie/esmallclaims/claim/Main?page=home&Language=English

I believe the fee has gone up to €15 now.

axer

Flaccus is correct. You are basically covered for the length of time it would be fair to assume the goods should have lasted. Reasonable and fair is the name of the game.

With regards the laptop, you are covered for faulty hardware by law as long as it was not caused by misuse or abuse. Usually this extended warranties (which are really just insurance policies) cover for accidental damage and possibly software problems. If this extended warranty doesn't cover the latter then it is a waste of money.

subway

flaccus is spot on.
you only need buy an extended warranty for consumer products if it actually gives you something other than an offer to repair a faulty product.
something like next day service, accidental damage or repalcement system while yours is being repaired.

you will generally have to talk to a manager rather than a support person, and be prepared to talk to people with no clue of your rights, and at the end of it all, go to the SCC.
warranty equals convenience.

BaconZombie

Electronic hardware is covered for 3 years.

Padraig Mor wrote: »

Are all goods sold in the EU not subject to a two year warranty by law? Or is that just cars?

Flaccus

3 years? source please ? eu law specifically allows a claim for up to 6 years in ireland with most eu countries only having 2. does not differentiate what type of goods though vehicles fall under special conditions in the sale of goods act. if you mean the manufacturer provides 3 years warranty the no. of years provided is at their discretion as this is a voluntary guarantee not a warranty per se. as the mac is under 2 years old the question of whether it is reasonable to assume the goods should have lasted that long does not have to come up under eu law. the op is entitled to repair free of charge but only if he can proove a fault with the mac and its not due to wear and tear. alternatively he can invoke the sale of goods act and try to establish that the mac should have been expected to last 2 years withou fault. apple will hardly say otherwise.