Unaccompanied Provisional Driver..

plastic-man

yeh ive asked this before and since i nearly have my provisional i decided to finish it off with a poll..

Wishbone Ash

plastic-man wrote: »

yeh ive asked this before and since i nearly have my provisional i decided to finish it off with a poll..

Learner Permit!

plastic-man

same diff

Wishbone Ash

If you are going to have a poll you'd need to get your house in order and state the category concerned ( there is no requirement to be accompanied in some categories) and not every learner has a Provisional Licence as many will now have a Learner Permit.

Wishbone Ash

plastic-man wrote: »

same diff

Well if it's the 'same diff' why not use the proper terminology?

Would you give the price of an item in IR£?

plastic-man

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Well if it's the 'same diff' why not use the proper terminology?

Would you give the price of an item in IR£?

yeh probably, its category B (the car category) . the house is in order man dont worry, just contemplating over that £1000 fine...

timmywex

Tbh,ive no problem risking it, but im not going to be doinf any serious driving either i guess, itd be all kinda just to a party and home again, on roads i know the gards wont be doing checkpoints at!

Frankie Lee

I voted not a chance because i wouldn't have L plates up, I only ever had L plates on my car for one day and that was when I passed my test.

Never got stopped once in the few months i was a provisional licence driver driving unaccompanied and i would have went through 5 or 6 checkpoints.

plastic-man

I usually wouldn't usually be one to be on the bad side of the law.. However I don't think I will obey this rule.. Without sounding bratty ..its impossible to expect a teenager to have his/her own car in the drive-way and not drive it alone for at least 6 months and thats if they pass the driving test! Although I dont agree with really unexperienced L-drivers being on the road.. thats just silly.

This predicament suggests another question...

Should one take the risk of a possible extra 1000€ and take those L-plates down to reduce risk of being stopped in the first place?

What are your opinions?

Wishbone Ash

plastic-man wrote: »

Should one take the risk of a possible extra 1000€ and take those L-plates down to reduce risk of being stopped in the first place?

Before anyone considers answering this question, they should familiarise themselves with the Forum Charter.

ztoical

plastic-man wrote: »

its impossible to expect a teenager to have his/her own car in the drive-way and not drive it alone for at least 6 months and thats if they pass the driving test! Although I dont agree with really unexperienced L-drivers being on the road.. thats just silly.

Just silly? Whats silly is that statement, its impossible to expect teenagers to obey the law? <SNIP>, you want to learn to drive then follow the laws in place. Driving is a privilege not a right, I don't know were everyone is getting this entitlement attitude from. As has been pointed out many times on this forum other countries have never allowed learner drivers out on their own and yet they all manage to learn to drive without half the whinging and moaning of "teenagers" here.

Posy

I'm currently taking driving lessons.. I figure I'll have about 15 and a few pretests then do the driving test. If I fail (good chance, since I'm very inexperienced) I'll reapply and do more lessons and if I pass I will drive my own car. Until then it can sit in the drive because I will not drive it unaccompanied until I have a full licence.

Alanstrainor

I have a bit of a problem with this "ah sure it'll be grand attitude" towards learning to drive these days. Even your poll OP. Your options are
1. Ye, just be careful.
You should be "careful" every time you drive a car, are you saying you'll somehow conjure up a superhuman ability to anticipate danger and react to any number of dangerous situations, just because you say you'll be careful? It's very simple, a Fully licensed driver must accompany you, as in 99% of cases, those two years of fully licensed driving have given them a damn site more driving experience.

plastic-man wrote: »

Although I dont agree with really unexperienced L-drivers being on the road.. thats just silly.

:eek:, May i ask who decides whether you are considered an "unexperienced" learner driver, or an "experienced" learner driver?!?

plastic-man

ztoical wrote: »

Just silly? Whats silly is that statement, its impossible to expect teenagers to obey the law?

This kind of stuff annoys me (typical person just here to find and attempt to criticize others), ATTENTION ZTOICAL.. before you make your pompous, snooty statement .. read what I said first.. and that is..

" I dont agree with really unexperienced L-drivers being on the road.. thats just silly."

It is silly because they're not only risking their lives but the lives of others if they are really, really unexperienced.. However if you believe that this carry on is acceptable , I think there may be a bigger issue here..

Aaanyway.. to ALANSTRAINOR .. about my superhuman abilities.. the answer is yes.. my spidey senses alert me of danger

ALso you say...

"May i ask who decides whether you are considered an "unexperienced" learner driver, or an "experienced" learner driver?!"

I, myself, personally will be able to know when I am at a "safe-to-be-on-the-road" standard with advice from my instructor .. And again just to address those particular pompous-imbued people here.. my sisters instructor is apparently one of the finest in Dublin, works with a Major Driving school and has told me that the instructors in the school tell Learner permit drivers that it is advisable to get a bit of confidence driving alone before you sit your test. Which makes perfect sense to me! You do need to drive alone to build up your confidence. The majority of people saying "its the law rawr rawr rawrr.." .. I really don't want to hear that anymore..

People these days eh...

Devia

Standing by the law is pompous now? Some of these people may not even have a full license. You think everyone who has a provisional drives unaccompanied?

The driving test decides whether you're competent enough to drive unaccompanied, not you or your instructor. Waiting lists for the test are only a matter of weeks these days and since you think you're already experienced enough there should be no reason why you shouldn't just get your test out of the way, that should be your main focus rather than dodging cops.

But a piece of advice. If you're going to have complete disregard for the law at least be subtle about it. The reason you're getting such a response is because there are people here who actually take driving and the law seriously.

Alanstrainor

plastic-man wrote: »

This kind of stuff annoys me (typical person just here to find and attempt to criticize others), ATTENTION ZTOICAL.. before you make your pompous, snooty statement .. read what I said first.. and that is..

" I dont agree with really unexperienced L-drivers being on the road.. thats just silly."

It is silly because they're not only risking their lives but the lives of others if they are really, really unexperienced.. However if you believe that this carry on is acceptable , I think there may be a bigger issue here..

Aaanyway.. to ALANSTRAINOR .. about my superhuman abilities.. the answer is yes.. my spidey senses alert me of danger

ALso you say...

"May i ask who decides whether you are considered an "unexperienced" learner driver, or an "experienced" learner driver?!"

I, myself, personally will be able to know when I am at a "safe-to-be-on-the-road" standard with advice from my instructor .. And again just to address those particular pompous-imbued people here.. my sisters instructor is apparently one of the finest in Dublin, works with a Major Driving school and has told me that the instructors in the school tell Learner permit drivers that it is advisable to get a bit of confidence driving alone before you sit your test. Which makes perfect sense to me! You do need to drive alone to build up your confidence. The majority of people saying "its the law rawr rawr rawrr.." .. I really don't want to hear that anymore..

People these days eh...

Your whole point is utterly ridiculous, you believe there are two categories of Learner Driver, experienced and inexperienced, and yet you feel you are able to determine your own level? Everyone thinks they are a great driver
There is only one test of this and this is the driving test, not a good word by your driving instructor. You even seem to contradict yourself in your updated post

It is silly because they're not only risking their lives but the lives of others if they are really, really unexperienced. ,

I would argue the same thing at your level of driving, if you feel you are ready, and have held your permit for at least 6 months then apply/sit your test and prove you are capable to drive. Why have a licensing system if anyone could drive with only a theory test under their belt.?

plastic-man

You actually have to wait 6 months before you can do your driving test.. that seems to be news to you.
You may also want to check out the definition of pompous too..

I was talking to a Garda myself in work and even they admitted that, its not easy at all to obey the "unaccompanied" rule and that he personally judges cases on its merits.. i.e. if you have all your other necessary particulars in order and you're driving safe , a warning is sufficient..

To be honest though, and I don't want to come off a hypocrite, but I've been tempted to drop the idea of driving alone, for the moment at least.

Reason being.. me acting as a threat to others. Like, I know I could essentially believe that I'd be safe on the road, but on the off-chance it's possible I could show a degree of inexperience and you never know what could happen..

Anyhoo, I'm getting my permit tomorrow hopefully .. booking lessons straight away..

plastic-man

Alanstrainor, you may want to look at the poll results and see how others feel, I'm not a very small minority

Alanstrainor

I suggest you actually read my post before accusing me of not knowing my stuff.

Alanstrainor wrote: »

if you feel you are ready, and have held your permit for at least 6 months then apply/sit your test and prove you are capable to drive. Why have a licensing system if anyone could drive with only a theory test under their belt.?

This is a debate, one which has two sides of the argument, you have to be able to take and respond to other posters, not just fob them off with comments such as this

The majority of people saying "its the law rawr rawr rawrr.." .. I really don't want to hear that anymore..

Take this as a warning to calling other posters, and myself pompous when you disagree with our points.

plastic-man

I was actually responding to someone else about the 6 month thing, and since I have studied the art of debating I will advise you on one thing,

It's often in the most sophisticated debates and arguments where one party or side can change their mind, If you have bothered to read my post you will realise that I said I have put the idea of driving alone at rest for the moment,

So just calm down, relax Mr. Moderator, your excellency, nobody is fobbing anyone off here..

plastic-man

OFF-TOPIC (to Alanstrainor) sweet blues man

Posy

plastic-man wrote: »

I was actually responding to someone else about the 6 month thing, and since I have studied the art of debating I will advise you on one thing..

If you have studied the 'art' of debating, perhaps you should have specified who it was you were responding to when you made the reply. If you post directly after someone else, should we not believe you to be responding to that person?

Devia

plastic-man wrote: »

You actually have to wait 6 months before you can do your driving test.. that seems to be news to you.
You may also want to check out the definition of pompous too..

Quoting seems to be news to you. Learn to quote the posts you're responding to.

Im well aware of the 6 month rule and the meaning of pompous. I assumed you were driving, my bad. My advice stands though, concentrate on passing your test in 6 months and less on working your way around the system.

You still haven't explained how one is being "pompous" by criticising your initial disregard of the law.

plastic-man wrote: »

OFF-TOPIC (to Alanstrainor) sweet blues man

Luckily maturity isn't a requirement for the learners permit. You'd be waiting a few years yet.

plastic-man

The reply was obviously posted while I was typing my own response. Besides under such colloquial circumstances as an online forum, I really didn't feel the need..

Think I'm gonna end this thread now, I've got what I wanted... namely that I wouldn't be alone in driving unaccompanied on a Learner Permit..

plastic-man

I dont see the immaturity in that Devia .. are you trying to encourage an argument there? Clearly that's a sign of someone with no informed opinion, grow up man

Devia

plastic-man wrote: »

I dont see the immaturity in that Devia .. are you trying to encourage an argument there? Clearly that's a sign of someone with no informed opinion, grow up man

Well I find your posts in this thread immature. Just an opinion, hardly the war-cry you're making it out to be. If I wanted an argument id take it somewhere worthwhile.

Good luck with your driving anyway, let us know how it goes :rolleyes:

Wishbone Ash

plastic-man wrote: »

This kind of stuff annoys me (typical person just here to find and attempt to criticize others)

Why seek opinions if you only wish to hear the ones you agree with?

plastic-man wrote:

I, myself, personally will be able to know when I am at a "safe-to-be-on-the-road" standard with advice from my instructor ..

So you believe that you and a potential instructor should decide whether you are above the law? What if your instructor is not very good?

plastic-man wrote:

The majority of people saying "its the law rawr rawr rawrr.." .. I really don't want to hear that anymore..

If you don't want to hear it, why begin a thread on the subject seeking opinions from others?

plastic-man wrote: »

I was talking to a Garda myself in work and even they admitted that, its not easy at all to obey the "unaccompanied" rule

It's not easy to pay taxes. Should we avoid them so? Avoiding something because it is not easy is effictively giving the two fingers to those who choose to obey the regulations.

plastic-man wrote:

I know I could essentially believe that I'd be safe on the road, but on the off-chance it's possible I could show a degree of inexperience and you never know what could happen

Please correct me if I'm wrong but you are a young male who has just passed the theory test and have yet to obtain a Learner Permit yet you seem to consider yourself to be a bit of an expert in the field. Young males are slaughtered on our roads each week. I'm sure many of them think they are experienced drivers and that they are good drivers.

You haven't legally driven a car on a public road yet but appear to presume that you will be competent. I've been driving for over 20 years but I'm still learning and don't consider myself to be a particularly good driver.

Remember, experience itself isn't important - learning from experience is!

wicklow eoin

jesus wishbone ash we agree on something

Morgans

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Young males are slaughtered on our roads each week. I'm sure many of them think they are experienced drivers and that they are good drivers.

I have come on here previously and would have sympathy with the OP's point of view, but I think you have responded well here, and I agree with a lot of what you say. But I think the young men are being slaughtered on the road argument is the Learning to Drive forum's equivalent to Godwin's Law. There is no evidence that its learner drivers causing fatal crashes, even the RSA publish this and that there is any expectation that fatal crashes will reduce now that unaccompanied l-plate drivers on their second provisionals are outlawed. I know you have phrased your statement to avoid using learners.

If anything the fatal crashes show up the weakness of the driving test system at deciding who is and who is not a competent driver. It seems to be another golden cow on here.

TheNog

Morgans wrote: »

I have come on here previously and would have sympathy with the OP's point of view, but I think you have responded well here, and I agree with a lot of what you say. But I think the young men are being slaughtered on the road argument is the Learning to Drive forum's equivalent to Godwin's Law. There is no evidence that its learner drivers causing fatal crashes, even the RSA publish this and that there is any expectation that fatal crashes will reduce now that unaccompanied l-plate drivers on their second provisionals are outlawed. I know you have phrased your statement to avoid using learners.

If anything the fatal crashes show up the weakness of the driving test system at deciding who is and who is not a competent driver. It seems to be another golden cow on here.

The introduction of the Learner Permit and associated restrictions are not a quick fix for improving our road safety but merely a first stepping stone. I will agree with you that further steps need to be taken. Steps that I have been saying for a while like retesting full licenced drivers every 10 years or so, increased policing not only from the Gardai but from motorists too. Motorists who see dangerous driving, report it and go the full way to court if necessary. Only then will we see some improvements on our roads but tbh these are long term plans.

TheNog

plastic-man wrote: »

I usually wouldn't usually be one to be on the bad side of the law.. However I don't think I will obey this rule.. Without sounding bratty ..its impossible to expect a teenager to have his/her own car in the drive-way and not drive it alone for at least 6 months and thats if they pass the driving test! Although I dont agree with really unexperienced L-drivers being on the road.. thats just silly.

This predicament suggests another question...

Should one take the risk of a possible extra 1000€ and take those L-plates down to reduce risk of being stopped in the first place?

What are your opinions?

imo you have alot to learn about driving my friend. Its not as simple as going from A to B.
You have taken the right step in leaving your car in the driveway unless you are accompanied. I would also encourage you to display your L plates if you do decide to drive alone.

SeanW

TheNog wrote: »

I would also encourage you to display your L plates if you do decide to drive alone.

Why?

TheNog

If a learner driver is stopped say for speeding and are not displaying L plates it could be seen as that driver trying to deceive Gardai. It would not be looked on approvingly. Better to be up front and honest.

Pythia

Personally I drive around on my own with my L plates up. Been doing since I started (about 6 months ago), albeit it legally before July as I had a 2nd provisional. I make sure not to drive down 'Garda Hotspot' roads. Just my own personal experience, not saying you should do the same.

Hoping to pass soon so I can give up worrying about it!

Greenmachine

What's silly is your parents buying you a car in the first place, when you haven't even got a full license. Your parents sgould be ashamed of themselves.

plastic-man wrote: »

I usually wouldn't usually be one to be on the bad side of the law.. However I don't think I will obey this rule.. Without sounding bratty ..its impossible to expect a teenager to have his/her own car in the drive-way and not drive it alone for at least 6 months and thats if they pass the driving test! Although I dont agree with really unexperienced L-drivers being on the road.. thats just silly.

This predicament suggests another question...

Should one take the risk of a possible extra 1000€ and take those L-plates down to reduce risk of being stopped in the first place?

What are your opinions?

Wishbone Ash

Greenmachine wrote: »

What's silly is your parents buying you a car in the first place

Where did he say his parents bought the car?

Alanstrainor

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Where did he say his parents bought the car?

+1, and even if they did, it would be no business of yours to comment on his parents reasoning behind it.

TheNog

Greenmachine wrote: »

What's silly is your parents buying you a car in the first place, when you haven't even got a full license. Your parents sgould be ashamed of themselves.

Cabaal

I got my learners permit in January 2008, starteed driving in March and got my license in August.

I still honestly believe anybody caught driving without a full license driver and/or without L plates deserves the full brunt of the law upon them...you haven't proven your able to drive on your own yet so you shouldn't be! simple as.

We all know the new law sucks, hell it affected me but its the law for a reason and its in the interest of your safety and more importantly everyone elses.

Greenmachine

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Where did he say his parents bought the car?

He wasn't putting an argument about teenager having and car and not driving it, unless he had his own personal motivation for it. Maybe he bought it with his own money. I serious doubt it, if he can come up with an argument like that.

Alanstrainor wrote: »

+1, and even if they did, it would be no business of yours to comment on his parents reasoning behind it.

I am just as entitled to my opinion as the next person like it or not. Some parent let there kids smoke it doesn't make it right.

TheNog wrote: »

Wishbone Ash

Greenmachine wrote: »

He wasn't putting an argument about teenager having and car and not driving it, unless he had his own personal motivation for it. Maybe he bought it with his own money. I serious doubt it, if he can come up with an argument like that.

Now you are just making yourself appear even more ridiculous!

Greenmachine wrote:

I am just as entitled to my opinion as the next person like it or not

Not here you're not! boards.ie is a publicly accessed but privately owned and privately operated forum. You have no entitlements here. You are off topic and giving an opinion on an incorrect assumption is a bit silly.

Greenmachine

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Now you are just making yourself appear even more ridiculous!

Not here you're not! boards.ie is a publicly accessed but privately owned and privately operated forum. You have no entitlements here. You are off topic and giving an opinion on an incorrect assumption is a bit silly.

Okay let just let this one go eh. I realise I went off topic entering into an aside with someone who was not the OP.

JP Liz

I have a Provisional Licence and will drive unaccompanied. I know its against the law but i have no full licenced driver to accompany me. I need my car for work.

Alanstrainor

I've said this before. Driving is a privilage, not a right. Just because your job requires a car to get to is not an excuse.

sunnyside

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Please correct me if I'm wrong but you are a young male who has just passed the theory test and have yet to obtain a Learner Permit yet you seem to consider yourself to be a bit of an expert in the field. Young males are slaughtered on our roads each week. I'm sure many of them think they are experienced drivers and that they are good drivers.

You haven't legally driven a car on a public road yet but appear to presume that you will be competent. I've been driving for over 20 years but I'm still learning and don't consider myself to be a particularly good driver.

Remember, experience itself isn't important - learning from experience is!

I totally agree with you, the attitude you are responding to scares me.

Morgans wrote: »

There is no evidence that its learner drivers causing fatal crashes, .

The thing is loads of those young male drivers do have a full licence but the fearless attitude they have makes them more dangerous than a lot of learners.

My instructor says that it's those young males who have very little trouble passing a test who are the most dangerous on the roads.

I drive on my own sometimes, I don't have an accompanied driver and I need more practice than 1 hour a week with an instructor. I definitely don't think I'm brilliant but I have a test booked. According to the instructor my skills are much better than my confidence.

I hate it when arrogant young male drivers beep at me if I'm being a bit slow at a roundabout or junction. The older more experienced drivers who would have more right to be beeping never do.

I have my L plates up and have never come across a checkpoint.

Wishbone Ash

sunnyside wrote: »

The thing is loads of those young male drivers do have a full licence but the fearless attitude they have makes them more dangerous than a lot of learners.

My instructor says that it's those young males who have very little trouble passing a test who are the most dangerous on the roads

Yes, your instructor is correct. Young males have a greater chance of passing the (category driving test than any other segment of drivers but, sadly, are the most likely to be killed on our roads.