Training for GAA

Bruno26

Hi, was just wondering would GAA players especially the elite do much weight training? What type of programs would they be working on? Would they do it over the winter or throughout the entire year? Also would they take supplements, whey protein etc??
Thanks.

hunter164

I know they do weights and are taking supplements though I don't know what their programs are like.

Pen1987

Yes to all.

They do a big regime of weights, I know a few who can bench 1.5 BW, squat 2xBW and deadlift big too... pretty impressive considering theyre amateurs and have to fit cardio training in 3/4 times a week aswell sometimes. Of course the amount of strength required can depend on the type of player, the backs and big forwards would need more power than whippy little forwards, Ross McConall is a tank, I'd say he presses well above BW, the midfielders would all need to be fairly strong.

BobbyOLeary

Double bodyweight squat? Strong men. I didn't think they'd be lifting that much, or rather I didn't think they'd need to be that strong.

I'd imagine they work on oly lifting too OP, for building their explosiveness.

hunter164

Ye sorry I meant there programs.
Yes they do lift big weights. I've seen them in the gym in DCU and they do lift a serious amount. They workout on lunch breaks aswell. A lot of commitment seeing as after doing weights at lunch, they'll go back to work and then will train later on aswell.

spiral

who are you seeing in the gym in DCU.
Double BW pretty cool

hunter164

spiral wrote: »

who are you seeing in the gym in DCU.
Double BW pretty cool

I've seen Whelan,Cluxton,Jayo,Philip McMahon, the sub goalie and a few others just can't think of them. Most of the players that live on the Northside do their training in DCU and the southsiders in TF.

NicheG

hunter164 wrote: »

I've seen Whelan,Cluxton,Jayo,Philip McMahon, the sub goalie and a few others just can't think of them. Most of the players that live on the Northside do their training in DCU and the southsiders in TF.

Maybe they should spend less time in the gym and more time learning how to play football; the way they performed against Tyrone this year?

podge57

i would be skeptical about the claims they lift those weights - any ive seen train with pretty light weights and mainly do bench , curls and abs (yes, i am talking about intercounty)

and i doubt the coaches would want them squatting 2x bw

Roper

Lots of misinformation about what pros and intercounty footballers do. I wouldn't believe anything I heard from anyone, especially not some guys who see them in the gym!

Hanley

Roper wrote: »

Lots of misinformation about what pros and intercounty footballers do. I wouldn't believe anything I heard from anyone, especially not some guys who see them in the gym!

+1

brianthebard

Either we are talking quarter squats or you are underestimating their body weight

Roper

brianthebard wrote: »

Either we are talking quarter squats or you are underestimating their body weight

It wouldn't surprise me if someone like Seán Óg O'Halpín could squat 2 times bodyweight, but it would surprise me if he did it on a regular basis.

I love the "I train in the same gym as *insert big name GAA/Rugby star here* and he does *insert insane weight/exercise here* stories. They're usually justification for someone's own dumb ass lifting or training programme. Hey Brian O'Driscoll does it and he's in shape, so I'm going to do it and soon I will be as fast as he is, and able to take on big Aussie forwards just like him too.

OP are you a GAA man looking for an edge?

Pen1987

I was talking elite as in the strongest and most powerful players on the best inter-county teams at the peak of their training, not some half-forward from Ballykissangles Crokes who is on the Monaghon junior panel.

These arent small blokes.

I was talking loading the bar and training with some of these aswell, not training beside them in some form of awe because they were playing in the all-ireland the next week so they must be superheroes type mindset.

BrianD3

I heard from a fairly relaible source that Ross Munnelly (Laois) does a lot of weights in DCU. Also re: quarter squats etc. didn't someone post here before about how they saw the Dublin footballers training with weights and while they were using quite heavy weights, the form was appalling.

Also I saw a programme on TV about the Irish rugby team, Paul O'Connell was shown doing trap bar deadlifts and Ronan O'Gara was doing squats (with a trainer present) The squats he was doing were not heavy at all and looked very high I don't know if quarter squats would have a place in a training programme for rugby i.e. would O'Gara be deliberately doing "quarter squats" as part of sturctured programme. Or would he doing "squats" and stopping well short of parallel because of ignorance as to what a "squat" is.

eroo

I saw some GAA heads from LIT in my local gym. I don't know what they were doing. With very low weight; Bicep curls,then without rest switch to working trapezius muscles, then lateral raises. Then lat pulldowns with 10 lbs, then sit ups. There was no structure. It was like a really bad attempt at circuits/aerobics. So, I can't see GAA players squating 2X BW etc, simply because strength training is only in it's early stages within GAA. Maybe at inter county level, the more succesful counties are making improvements. Look at some of the Tyrone squad, they are bulkier than your average GAA player. As the games become more 'pro', physical training will improve imo.

brianthebard

Pen1987 wrote: »

I was talking elite as in the strongest and most powerful players on the best inter-county teams at the peak of their training, not some half-forward from Ballykissangles Crokes who is on the Monaghon junior panel.

These arent small blokes.

Are you going to post any names, weights, heights, stats? Only I heard some commentators during the year making a big deal out of how many players are now around the 15st mark, as if that's heavy-to me at least it doesn't seem it, specially if they are over 6ft and lifting. If you are training beside these guys then you should know how much is on the bar for a start.

Roper

BrianD3 wrote: »

I heard from a fairly relaible source that Ross Munnelly (Laois) does a lot of weights in DCU. Also re: quarter squats etc. didn't someone post here before about how they saw the Dublin footballers training with weights and while they were using quite heavy weights, the form was appalling.

Also I saw a programme on TV about the Irish rugby team, Paul O'Connell was shown doing trap bar deadlifts and Ronan O'Gara was doing squats (with a trainer present) The squats he was doing were not heavy at all and looked very high I don't know if quarter squats would have a place in a training programme for rugby i.e. would O'Gara be deliberately doing "quarter squats" as part of sturctured programme. Or would he doing "squats" and stopping well short of parallel because of ignorance as to what a "squat" is.

Re: IRFU. Lots of top, top guys involved who know just a wee bit about squatting. Maybe even more than the average internet forum poster.:pac:

Look lads I'm not trying to be smart here but some might lift, some might not. If they are "doing weights" are they just pricking around on their own or are they doing it as part of a structured programme? If so, what part of the programme are you seeing them in? Is it personalised, is it a bit of the team programme? If a guy isn't doing weights, is he being told to keep off so he's fresh for other sessions he needs to do on balance or rehab?

It's not as simple as saying all players do weights or they don't.

Pen1987

brianthebard wrote: »

Are you going to post any names, weights, heights, stats? Only I heard some commentators during the year making a big deal out of how many players are now around the 15st mark, as if that's heavy-to me at least it doesn't seem it, specially if they are over 6ft and lifting. If you are training beside these guys then you should know how much is on the bar for a start.

15st would be max wieght I'd want to carry around a football pitch for 70 minutes myself, I'd say thats near enough the optimum weigh for GAA myself.

I wont name names because well, its not me and I wouldnt people posting my names and stats out in the public domain if I wasnt releasing them.

This was in March senior intercounty panelist.

86KG
Bench - 140
Squat - 140
He didnt deadlift. He's 6ft 1/2 maybe... What other stats do you want, I cant think of anything else...

I will say that he was returning from a torn muscle in his upper leg and he mentioned that his bench was at his highest its ever been because hes only been training upper body for 2 months, also he had previously squatted 180 at 80KG, but I didnt see him do that, Im just taking him on his word.

Re: IRFU. Lots of top, top guys involved who know just a wee bit about squatting. Maybe even more than the average internet forum poster.

Look lads I'm not trying to be smart here but some might lift, some might not. If they are "doing weights" are they just pricking around on their own or are they doing it as part of a structured programme? If so, what part of the programme are you seeing them in? Is it personalised, is it a bit of the team programme? If a guy isn't doing weights, is he being told to keep off so he's fresh for other sessions he needs to do on balance or rehab?

It's not as simple as saying all players do weights or they don't.

Re: same person as above, no he's not pricking around on his, he works off a very structured program although I couldnt say if the program was assigned by the county etc. He trains 4 days a week in the gym, not sure how often with the team/cardio etc, in total hes 'training' (either way) 6 days... He gets his fitness/cardio stats etc checked out every two months by a lab in one of the Uni's, all together his whole set-up is the most professional I've come across of any sportsperson I've met but again I couldnt say if its just him or if its assigned by the mangament or whomever...

hunter164

Now 2bw is a bit much but I was talking to 1 player Philip McMahon ( he's a sub for Dublin) and at the time his squat was 140kg and his bench was 90kg.

Roper

Pen1987 wrote: »

Re: same person as above, no he's not pricking around on his, he works off a very structured program although I couldnt say if the program was assigned by the county etc. He trains 4 days a week in the gym, not sure how often with the team/cardio etc, in total hes 'training' (either way) 6 days... He gets his fitness/cardio stats etc checked out every two months by a lab in one of the Uni's, all together his whole set-up is the most professional I've come across of any sportsperson I've met but again I couldnt say if its just him or if its assigned by the mangament or whomever...

I'm not doubting your mate is a fine fella and trains weights, I'm saying that because no one has any clue what he's doing it for, who prescribed it, what phase he's in or anything then it's only a discussion based on conjecture and "my mate saw such a guy in the gym".

Let me put it to you this way, have you ever met a top player who said "yeah I do weights, but I don't really know what I'm at. Our set up is kind of ****e we just do a mish mash of whatever". Do you fvck. Even if they're doing nothing you can guarantee they'll tell you they have a team of Russian ex-pats measuring the bodyfat of their butt cheeks 6 times daily right after they pull a Scania with their teeth the length of the pitch. Even if they're still doing laps they'll tell you it's the height of science and they've never been fitter.

Mikel

BrianD3 wrote: »

Also I saw a programme on TV about the Irish rugby team, Paul O'Connell was shown doing trap bar deadlifts and Ronan O'Gara was doing squats (with a trainer present) The squats he was doing were not heavy at all and looked very high

You can't use that as a basis for anything, that could be like the footage they show of any boxer pr1cking around in a ring, doing flashy drills for the camera.

There was a discussion on the athletics forum during the olympics (not to be recommended mentioning Gaa players over there ) and someone posted a paper on the subject. It's a bit out of date but it is interesting, I'll see if I can find it.

Mikel

Roper wrote: »

Let me put it to you this way, have you ever met a top player who said "yeah I do weights, but I don't really know what I'm at. Our set up is kind of ****e we just do a mish mash of whatever". Do you fvck. Even if they're doing nothing you can guarantee they'll tell you they have a team of Russian ex-pats measuring the bodyfat of their butt cheeks 6 times daily right after they pull a Scania with their teeth the length of the pitch. Even if they're still doing laps they'll tell you it's the height of science and they've never been fitter.

You old cynic :pac:

brianthebard

Mikel wrote: »

You can't use that as a basis for anything, that could be like the footage they show of any boxer pr1cking around in a ring, doing flashy drills for the camera.

You mean Ali didn't really train under water? My illusions, shattered!

Hanley

brianthebard wrote: »

You mean Ali didn't really train under water? My illusions, shattered!

So that's how he floated??

slemons

my 2cent having played inter county hurling and trained in lots of gyms all over the county, as well as competing in some OL comps.

Most if not all intercounty players do weights

A lot of the less successful teams dont really have a clue about weights.
Quarter squats, terrible technique, big boasts. A few quys were playing with 90kg benchs in conversations, but then loaded up 50kg to train with.

Coaches were fairly disorganised. They knew the exercises-ish, but no idea how to split out a work week. In the end they just did everything, all the time. (This applies to rugby coaches too, some of the things ive seen Munster & Ireland rugby players do, defies belief.) Terrible Power clean technique.

In terms of numbers, well i'll be fvcked if there's many squatting 2x BW. Maybe a quarter squat, but i've done over 3xBW quarter squat so its an exercise not worth a fvck. When i did my first ass to grass 2BW squat, it was a major achievement after lots of training

I have seen that some of the dub footballers are lazy enough in their approach to weights. Loungue around the pool more like

Sean Og definitely doesnt squat big.He was that size when he was 14, and works an awful lot of long distance running in. Trained with him one day and after he destroyed the treadmill for half an hour he went straight for the bicep curls. Ditto Tommy Dunne. Imagine how good they could be eh?

Some of the current Tipp&KK hurlers really know their stuff and its easily known. KK's trainer, cant remember the name, has built great wheels for them.


What ive found in my own training
Weights arent the be all and end all. This was my best year ever and i didnt set foot in a gym. Saying that my first session back last week, Power Cleaning and pressing Bodyweight wasnt hard

Speed Kills, and for me the best place to work that is on the pitch.
Different strokes for different folks...

Roper

Seán óg was working with a very highly thought of conditioning coach , so maybe he's changed since you were with him or he's left since. Some of the mindset is mad though, was talking to a few guys over the weekend and it's always "they did a day of weights? Well we'll do 2 days then!"

Arsenal1986

I know obviously i cant be certain but i would be genuinely shocked if any intercounty playehad a 140 bench to be honest as the OP has said....OP have you seen this 140 bench like?The 140 squat id believe fair enuf

BrianD3

Arsenal1986 wrote: »

I know obviously i cant be certain but i would be genuinely shocked if any intercounty playehad a 140 bench to be honest as the OP has said....OP have you seen this 140 bench like?The 140 squat id believe fair enuf

Hmm...if you take one of the biggest GAA players like Diarmuid O'Sullivan (around 100-110 kg) and if he benched 140 kg at the IDFPA single lift nationals, that would qualify him for the single lift world champs.

O'Sullivan is significantly larger (probably 3+ stone) than the average GAA county player. If a player weighing 86 kg were to bench 140 kg not only would he qualify with loads to spare, it would have been a pretty decent lift in the 2007 World Championships themselves. Both in the powerlifting and in the single lifts (90 kg unequipped division)

So I'd to agree with you and be quite skeptical about GAA players benching to these standards. But anything's possible and there are defintely some mutants out there

Roper

I doubt O'Sullivan is 110kg. More like 95 I'd say, but looks larger alongside other players.

BrianD3

Dunno what his weight is but in the RTE player stats before a match this year it said he was 6 foot 2 and 16.5 stone (105 kg)

slemons

well there's a massive difference between a competition bench and a gym bench by a Gaa player. My best was about 122kg @ 83, but if i was to go with competition rules, id say it would be well under 110.

I've never seen another Gaa player bench over 85kg

Sullivan is about 16-17 stone whatever that is in Kgs. Very strong, but surprisingly enough not an animal in the gym. Born not built. Loves his WWF!

BrianD3

Yep, I was assuming a comp legal bench. Otherwise it is difficult to compare anything. There have to be standards. It would not be a major shock if some GAA players were doing 1/2 ROM benches and then telling people that that's what they bench

OTOH if a GAA player does do a legal bench he probably won't be using optimal form that a powerlifter would. Eg poor leg drive, no arch. In that case the GAA player might move more weight if he were to optimise his technique.

kevpants

If it's not a comp legal bench it's not a bench. I would not consider the GAA-beshirted ones in the gym who partially rep 80kg to have an 80kg bench.

Hanley

BrianD3 wrote: »

Yep, I was assuming a comp legal bench. Otherwise it is difficult to compare anything. There have to be standards. It would not be a major shock if some GAA players were doing 1/2 ROM benches and then telling people that that's what they bench

OTOH if a GAA player does do a legal bench he probably won't be using optimal form that a powerlifter would. Eg poor leg drive, no arch. In that case the GAA player might move more weight if he were to optimise his technique.

God... so many conditions.

Who's to say the person's going to be stronger with an arch anyway? Or with leg drive? A lot of the best raw benchers don't arch that much at all, and touch relatively high.

Who's to say that ALL powerlifters have perfect technique to maxmise the weight they can lift?? (Which is what you're inferring right?) From my experience, most don't.

THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO WAY TO COMPARE WHAT A GAA PLAYER IS DOING IN THE GYM TO WHAT HE COULD DO IN COMPETITION. Unless you've an experienced PL'er there watching him and giving him the commands you'd get in comp and making sure his ass stays down, his feet stay flat, the bar's paused on his chest and no one else touches it.

Trying to draw relative strength conclusions based on numbers that it is CLAIMED someone benches, while not knowing whether or not they actually do (for starters) and what sort of form they're using is an absolute sisyphean task.

Besides, everyone knows guys who do bench only comps aren't real powerlifters

brianthebard

Well can we at least say that the bar must touch the chest for these numbers to have any meaning?

Hanley

brianthebard wrote: »

Well can we at least say that the bar must touch the chest for these numbers to have any meaning?

And your ass has got to stay on the bench.

I'll give you that much!!

BrianD3

Hanley wrote: »

Who's to say that ALL powerlifters have perfect technique to maxmise the weight they can lift?? (Which is what you're inferring right?) From my experience, most don't.

I didn't mean to imply that all powerlifters use perfect bench form. However their form will generally be better (closer to perfect) than the average GAA player. There is something wrong somewhere if the average GAA player is maximising his leverage better than or even equal to the average powerlifter.

Unless you've an experienced PL'er there watching him and giving him the commands you'd get in comp and making sure his ass stays down, his feet stay flat, the bar's paused on his chest and no one else touches it.

Well if a GAA player or recreational trainer has a good understanding of what's needed in a competition bench and videos himself benching then he should have a good idea whether his bench is comp legal, close to comp legal or definitely not comp legal. The rule books are on the web for anyone to read, there are vids of PL comps etc. If his form is legal he can then reasonably claim that he benches that amount. His form might still be a long way from "perfect" (see previous comment)

Hanley

BrianD3 wrote: »

I didn't mean to imply that all powerlifters use perfect bench form. However their form will generally be better (closer to perfect) than the average GAA player. There is something wrong somewhere if the average GAA player is maximising his leverage better than or even equal to the average powerlifter.

You'd be surprised. Go to a powerlifting comp and look at some of the guys lifting there, particularly the middle of the pack guys. They often don't have very good form at all.

Well if a GAA player or recreational trainer has a good understanding of what's needed in a competition bench and videos himself benching then he should have a good idea whether his bench is comp legal, close to comp legal or definitely not comp legal. The rule books are on the web for anyone to read, there are vids of PL comps etc. If his form is legal he can then reasonably claim that he benches that amount. His form might still be a long way from "perfect" (see previous comment)

Oh come on. Seriously????

How many GAA players read powerlifting rule books?? Hell, how many of them know powerlifting even exists?

How many of them do you see posting max or near max videos for critique?? Especially intercounty players. How many of them even care??

I'm pretty sure the answer to both of the above is zero. Or close to it.

celestial

Hanley wrote: »

You'd be surprised. Go to a powerlifting comp and look at some of the guys lifting there, particularly the middle of the pack guys. They often don't have very good form at all.



Oh come on. Seriously????

How many GAA players read powerlifting rule books?? Hell, how many of them know powerlifting even exists?

How many of them do you see posting max or near max videos for critique?? Especially intercounty players. How many of them even care??

I'm pretty sure the answer to both of the above is zero. Or close to it.

Eh... yes. I seriously think they don't really give a ****. Good mate of mine, who has been playing gaelic week in week out for the past decade, a few weekends ago 'sure doin weights only slows you down...'

Something tells me that weight training is fairly low down on the priority list for your common or garden GAA trainer out on the fields of Longford on a wet Tuesday evenin:)

spiral

Alright I cant resist , I actually met a Longford GAA player olympic lifting in Hercs this morning:cool:
Said he has squatted 140 for 4, didnt see him do it but he looked well capable

celestial

spiral wrote: »

Alright I cant resist , I actually met a Longford GAA player olympic lifting in Hercs this morning:cool:
Said he has squatted 140 for 4, didnt see him do it but he looked well capable

Haha. 32 counties what are the odds?:D

hunter164

Was it Niall Sheridan??

brianthebard

spiral wrote: »

Alright I cant resist , I actually met a Longford GAA player olympic lifting in Hercs this morning:cool:
Said he has squatted 140 for 4, didnt see him do it but he looked well capable

People from longford don't go to Dublin, I smell a rat.

spiral

well technically maybe he was a GAA player from Longford.
No it wasnt Niall Sheridan , I only know his first name as I just met him today.
BTB really ?
Maybe he wasnt from Longford just in Disguise , maybe he was freom Leitrim :pac:

slemons

I'll be honest and say that i dont know the rules on benching in Competition. Dont you have to pause at the bottom for a second? That would murder me...

Bench press is really a poor exercise for most Gaa players and thats why not many of them should be doing it. Back in the day i only benched once a month if even that. Lots of overhead pressing though.

Overhead press, some form of a clean, front squat, some kindof leg curl and pullups - thats all i ever really did. Just changed up somethings to keep it fresh, but that was always the core of my training...

In terms of supplements, you'd be surprised how little they take, and how frowned upon they are. If a player wants a shake after training then he does it on the quiet at the boot of the car.

Malteaser!

slemons wrote: »

I'll be honest and say that i dont know the rules on benching in Competition. Dont you have to pause at the bottom for a second? That would murder me...

Yup, one of the judges sits behind you and when you've paused the bar on your chest he makes the call for you to press it out. If you press before you get the call you don't get the lift.

There's other little things too that I often see people doing in gyms that would fail them in competition - lifting their head off the bench for example, or lowering the bar too low, almost to their stomach would be a no-no.

Roper

Jaysus folks who gives a damn if his press is legal or not. Most good coaches wouldn't have a their guys doing 1RMs in the gym anyway. Given that most people don't have good technique or good grounding in decent bodyweight exercises then I'd say that would be more potentially harmful than a decent test of strength.

Why would a GAA player need to bench anyway? Spend much time on his back on the pitch? Aside from when there's a melee, I can't think of too many times he'd be asked to push out with his chest. Hand-offs are shoulder dominant and most if not all contact with the other guy relies on strong legs and core. Alright there is a benefit to the core during the bench but there are better and more efficient ways of training that. Being on your feet for a start.

spiral

Barry you are right it doesent really matter , but there are times when lads tell you they can clean x or squat y and then you see them mullick the bar around the place or quarter squat you do have to smile:D

Remmy

I'm friends with two former county players.The few times i have gone to the gym with them they have just done lots of core work and some light curls.They would roast me on any endurance exercise however.

Remmy

Roper wrote: »

Jaysus folks who gives a damn if his press is legal or not. Most good coaches wouldn't have a their guys doing 1RMs in the gym anyway. Given that most people don't have good technique or good grounding in decent bodyweight exercises then I'd say that would be more potentially harmful than a decent test of strength.

Why would a GAA player need to bench anyway? Spend much time on his back on the pitch? Aside from when there's a melee, I can't think of too many times he'd be asked to push out with his chest. Hand-offs are shoulder dominant and most if not all contact with the other guy relies on strong legs and core. Alright there is a benefit to the core during the bench but there are better and more efficient ways of training that. Being on your feet for a start.

Good point you mentioned there roper!I reckon i have pretty good upper body strength but sometimes i get pushed off the tackle.Do you think this is down to weak legs and what exercises would be good for building strength for this role?thanks