Phil Hellmuth

e05bf05a

Ive been watching alot of tv poker recently, PAD, HSP etc, and alot of the time Phil Hellmuth is playing. for some reason whenever he is in all-in situation he always , ALWAYS!, asks for insurance. Personally i think its really bad for the game, especially in cash, but what i would like to ask is do people in dublin( jackpot, fitz, etc....) ever ask for insurance in an all in situation. just very curious as ive never seen it happen before in a live game.

CHD

Better ways to waste money

pocketdooz

e05bf05a wrote: »

Personally i think its really bad for the game, especially in cash, but what i would like to ask is do people in dublin( jackpot, fitz, etc....) ever ask for insurance in an all in situation. just very curious as ive never seen it happen before in a live game.

No, I've never seen it in any of the casinos in town. I doubt it would happen here anyway in 1/2 games where the biggest pot you'll see is €1,500 or so (obv. not talking about the main game in the Fitz - but I doubt they're the type to be doing that sort of crap !)

By the way - why do you think it is so bad for the game ? Also, it's only ever done in cash. I don't think the idea behind running it twice / insurance etc. is so bad (min.variance) but I wouldn't be arsed doing it for a € couple of hundred in the Fitz etc.

Pulsar Eagle

yes ive seen this done in some cash games throughout the country but all of these pots have being over E1000.

SpencerJames

pocketdooz wrote: »

No, I've never seen it in any of the casinos in town. I doubt it would happen here anyway in 1/2 games where the biggest pot you'll see is €1,500 or so (obv. not talking about the main game in the Fitz - but I doubt they're the type to be doing that sort of crap !)

By the way - why do you think it is so bad for the game ? Also, it's only ever done in cash. I don't think the idea behind running it twice / insurance etc. is so bad (min.variance) but I wouldn't be arsed doing it for a € couple of hundred in the Fitz etc.

Actually, I saw Phil H ask for insurance off Phil Ivey at a final table of a WSOP event. He was all in with AK versus AQ or something and Ivey gave him insurance!

Ive never seen insurance in Dublin cash games, although, its not strange to see people doing deals, running it twice ect.

Tight Ted

SpencerJames wrote: »

Ive never seen insurance in Dublin cash games, although, its not strange to see people doing deals, running it twice ect.

I call BS. No way would this be allowed!!

Hectorjelly

Maybe you should call bs on someone who hasn't regularly played the games he is talking about Ted

pocketdooz

SpencerJames wrote: »

Actually, I saw Phil H ask for insurance off Phil Ivey at a final table of a WSOP event. He was all in with AK versus AQ or something and Ivey gave him insurance!

Ive never seen insurance in Dublin cash games, although, its not strange to see people doing deals, running it twice ect.

Really, surely the other players would have a problem with this ?

thenutpeddler

Tight Ted wrote: »

I call BS. No way would this be allowed!!

Bull True

I've seen it recently, the table didn't object and the floor let it happen "just this once". Everyone knew each other.

It's not allowed though for obvious reasons.

flushje

LMAO

Look @ Hellmuth's fail hug @ 7.55, I found that so funny but im propbably just easily amused.

http://www.pokertube.com/Movies.aspx?movie=7594&title=Poker_After_Dark_S04_E22_1_4&player=1&page=1&list=2

Dmtiling

I have never seen anyone do it..

Tight Ted

thenutpeddler wrote: »

Bull True

I've seen it recently, the table didn't object and the floor let it happen "just this once". Everyone knew each other.

It's not allowed though for obvious reasons.

Maybe I'm too much of a moralist, but no way would I allow this **** to go down at my table.

SpencerJames

Tight Ted wrote: »

Maybe I'm too much of a moralist, but no way would I allow this **** to go down at my table.

Who the f**k are you? I dont come on here and decide to fabricate stuff as trivial as this for kicks. Its not common but not strange to see it. I have done deals many a time and see nothing wrong with it.

Infact Jbravado helped me out when I was starting out playing. I was 19, in college with not alot of money and had $500+ in front of me. We got it in with me having top two and he had an overpair and flush draw. He asked if i wanted to run it twice. I said yes, we chopped it. No one objected. Since then it has been done every now and again.

When dealing with large amounts of money 1000+ then it is a good way of dealing with variance. Its done all the time in America and the only objection I can see being that it takes time and as a result the game can be slowed down!

But in future call BS with me at your own peril! I would appriciate an apology.

SpencerJames

pocketdooz wrote: »

Really, surely the other players would have a problem with this ?

http://www.cardplayer.com/players/live_updates/Phil-Hellmuth-Jr./1356?event_day_id=11334

I couldnt find the insurance one, but this gives you the idea!

Mellor

Tight Ted wrote: »

Maybe I'm too much of a moralist, but no way would I allow this **** to go down at my table.

How exactly is it immoral to run it twice?

tylerdurden94

Phil Helmuth getting insurance off Phil Ivey in a 2007 WSOP event starts around the 7:25 mark

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBFIBoZxlOQ

Ace2007

SpencerJames wrote: »

Who the f**k are you? I dont come on here and decide to fabricate stuff as trivial as this for kicks. Its not common but not strange to see it. I have done deals many a time and see nothing wrong with it.

Infact Jbravado helped me out when I was starting out playing. I was 19, in college with not alot of money and had $500+ in front of me. We got it in with me having top two and he had an overpair and flush draw. He asked if i wanted to run it twice. I said yes, we chopped it. No one objected. Since then it has been done every now and again.

When dealing with large amounts of money 1000+ then it is a good way of dealing with variance. Its done all the time in America and the only objection I can see being that it takes time and as a result the game can be slowed down!

But in future call BS with me at your own peril! I would appriciate an apology.

and you once told me about playin within my roll...

as a side note, i bet Jbravado would love that 500 now....

Tight Ted

tylerdurden94 wrote: »

Phil Helmuth getting insurance off Phil Ivey in a 2007 WSOP event starts around the 7:25 mark

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBFIBoZxlOQ

Oh you meant insurance on his tournament life. I have no beef with that, why would I? It doesn't affect anybody else at the table. What I don't like is the idea of people insuring each other with tournament chips, completely spoils the game. I also have no beef with people insuring each other at cash tables.

SpencerJames wrote: »

But in future call BS with me at your own peril! I would appriciate an apology.

I hope you don't talk like this in real life!! LOL, I'm sorry. It was obviously a misscommunication.

SpencerJames

Tight Ted wrote: »

Oh you meant insurance on his tournament life. I have no beef with that, why would I? It doesn't affect anybody else at the table. What I don't like is the idea of people insuring each other with tournament chips, completely spoils the game. I also have no beef with people insuring each other at cash tables.



I hope you don't talk like this in real life!! LOL, I'm sorry. It was obviously a misscommunication.

Only having a laugh, but really don't come on here calling me a liar.

How could you possibly think that ever in the history of the game anywhere in the world that people could insure eachother with tournament chips?

Also as asked already, what is wrong with running it twice, doing deals etc.?

I think there comes a time when you should stop digging!

mdwexford

Tight Ted wrote: »

What I don't like is the idea of people insuring each other with tournament chips, completely spoils the game.

What the hell is that??

Mellor

Tight Ted wrote: »

Oh you meant insurance on his tournament life. I have no beef with that, why would I? It doesn't affect anybody else at the table. What I don't like is the idea of people insuring each other with tournament chips, completely spoils the game. I also have no beef with people insuring each other at cash tables.

You can't make side bets (such as insurance, run it twice etc) with tourney chips.

jbravado

Ace2007 wrote: »

as a side note, i bet Jbravado would love that 500 now....

Class act IMO

Tight Ted

SpencerJames wrote: »

Only having a laugh, but really don't come on here calling me a liar.

How could you possibly think that ever in the history of the game anywhere in the world that people could insure eachother with tournament chips?

Also as asked already, what is wrong with running it twice, doing deals etc.?

Sorry, I thought you meant with tourney chips. That's why I called bull****, because it seemed outrageous. That being said, I didn't mean to call you a liar, just that you'd made a mistake (which you hadn't). I worded it badly, my apologies.

I have nothing against doing deals/running it twice in cash games.

I hope with can continue to be friends.

Hugs and kisses.
Ted.

SpencerJames

Tight Ted wrote: »

Sorry, I thought you meant with tourney chips. That's why I called bull****, because it seemed outrageous. That being said, I didn't mean to call you a liar, just that you'd made a mistake (which you hadn't). I worded it badly, my apologies.

I have nothing against doing deals/running it twice in cash games.

I hope with can continue to be friends.

Hugs and kisses.
Ted.

Yeah no worries. If you look at your first post, I clearly say that I am talking bout cash games. So maybe read more carefully.

SpencerJames

SpencerJames wrote: »

Ive never seen insurance in Dublin cash games, although, its not strange to see people doing deals, running it twice ect.

Tight Ted wrote: »

Sorry, I thought you meant with tourney chips. That's why I called bull****

Eh... Really?

phantom_lord

Tight Ted wrote: »

Oh you meant insurance on his tournament life. I have no beef with that, why would I? It doesn't affect anybody else at the table. What I don't like is the idea of people insuring each other with tournament chips, completely spoils the game. I also have no beef with people insuring each other at cash tables.

lol

FuttBucker

i knw a little of topic but hellmuth is rediculous just found this on 2+2
From Pokernews' live updates:

"Correct Procedure

After a series of disastrous hands, during which he has become increasingly worked up, Phil Hellmuth is down to 50,000 and it looks as though it might be approaching his bedtime. He has once again demanded that Steve Frezer instruct the dealers in how to do their job according to, "Correct procedure," and has now wandered across to the other table to share his woe with Howard Lederer. "Might not make it 19 minutes, bud," he laments."

Then...

"Hellmuth Threatened With Penalty

Continuing the late-night disastrous run, Phil Hellmuth is down to just 25,000 and has made the dealer cry. The TD has come over and attempted to smooth things over, explaining that the dealer has been working for 14 hours and that it isn't her fault, but the dealer is quite upset and Hellmuth is being threatened with a penalty for attacking the dealer if he doesn't cool off soon.

The dealer is now receiving a soothing massage from the TD, and with just three minutes left on the clock, it looks like things are going to be ok."

CHD

I'd smack him tbh

Mellor

lol,
any old excuse to get in the spot light,

well i'm busto now, but if i make her cry i should get air time

gorrrr72

I was at the 2008 Irish open watching a 25/50 NLH 10000 Euro buy in cash table.
2 players got into a raise re-raise frenzy before and after flop and both ended up all in for a pot of around 18000 Euro.
After the flop First guy (lets call him Devlfsh) started to discuss a deal and he said he had a pair with an up n down straight draw and a flush draw. The other guy said he had pocket Aces.

They agreed to split the total pot without playing the hand out. When they turned over their cards, 2nd guy had the Aces but Devlfsh had nothing.
Aces guy cashed out and swore his head of at the fish who just sat there and shrugged sheepishly.

Moral of the story, make sure you see hand the guy claims to have before agreeing on a deal.

TripleAce

SpencerJames wrote: »

Actually, I saw Phil H ask for insurance off Phil Ivey at a final table of a WSOP event. He was all in with AK versus AQ or something and Ivey gave him insurance!

Ive never seen insurance in Dublin cash games, although, its not strange to see people doing deals, running it twice ect.

Is it allowed in tournaments? If yes, in all tournaments?

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

Stewart Reuben in his omaha book says he thinks running it twice is a good thing and he would nearly always do it.

Reasons he gave were:

a) you have the same odds of winning,

b) it gives the more fishy players the impression that they have a greater chance of winning by running it twice

c) it encourages players to take risks they shouldn't in future hands because they know they might be able to run it twice

SpencerJames

gorrrr72 wrote: »

I was at the 2008 Irish open watching a 25/50 NLH 10000 Euro buy in cash table.
2 players got into a raise re-raise frenzy before and after flop and both ended up all in for a pot of around 18000 Euro.
After the flop First guy (lets call him Devlfsh) started to discuss a deal and he said he had a pair with an up n down straight draw and a flush draw. The other guy said he had pocket Aces.

They agreed to split the total pot without playing the hand out. When they turned over their cards, 2nd guy had the Aces but Devlfsh had nothing.
Aces guy cashed out and swore his head of at the fish who just sat there and shrugged sheepishly.

Moral of the story, make sure you see hand the guy claims to have before agreeing on a deal.

This is incorrect. I believe it was a hand between Ian Frazer and Devilfish. The flop came A 78 and they got it all in. Devilfish said " you've the aces obviously, I'm wrapped round the straight and have a flush draw. Wanna do business"

Frazer " yeah, no worries, lets take some back and run it twice"

This was done and at the end devilfish turned his hand up, frazer mucked and Devilfish asked to see. There was a small bit of posturing but in the end Frazer's hand was turned up, showing a lower flush draw and weaker straight draw.

This story has really turned into and urban myth, everyone claiming to be there and bits changing here and there.

robinblinds

Having watched this hand as it happened, I can confirm what SpencerJames said is fact.

Both players played on regardless the very next hand with no abuse whatsoever, bar a bit of light hearted slagging and a bit of a laugh from the rail.

Frazer was drunk.

Jayminator

I done some business recently in a cash game and was happy to do so. The club and dealer in question told us it was not a runner but we stood our ground and took €250 each back from the pot and ran it twice and ended up chopping the other €200 that was in the middle.

I dont really have a problem with this and in fairness the other player in question was a complete gent in the hand because as we were deciding to do a deal the dealer turned the turn card giving other player the nuts. However he continued to agree to the deal after nailing the nuts. i.e The dealer threw up the turn card before we had finalised the deal.

Twas a very nice gesture and much appreciated.

However I dont agree with a club trying to tell the players what to do with their own money. It was a large enough pot and the players are the ones at risk of doin the loot and not the card room.

gorrrr72

SpencerJames wrote: »

This is incorrect. I believe it was a hand between Ian Frazer and Devilfish. The flop came A 78 and they got it all in. Devilfish said " you've the aces obviously, I'm wrapped round the straight and have a flush draw. Wanna do business"

Frazer " yeah, no worries, lets take some back and run it twice"

This was done and at the end devilfish turned his hand up, frazer mucked and Devilfish asked to see. There was a small bit of posturing but in the end Frazer's hand was turned up, showing a lower flush draw and weaker straight draw.

This story has really turned into and urban myth, everyone claiming to be there and bits changing here and there.

I was there myself, but I have to confess I was playing another cash table and walked over as the swearing was finishing up. It sounded serious to me and the story was relayed to me by someone who saw the whole thing (he said). I admit I didn't see it from start to finish but I did see the guy standing up swearing at Devlfsh and cashing out and saying it was the second time he did that to him.

Maybe the real moral of the story is don't believe poker players;)