Knowledge Economy

is this just spin?

Or is it where we educate people and export them?
Will other countries pay for our graduates?

LouOB

The funny thing about Ireland having a knowledge base is that the politicians dont have the knowledge or skill to market it

whiskeyman

Deleted User wrote: »

is this just spin?

Or is it where we educate people and export them?
Will other countries pay for our graduates?

You already posted this over in the Economics forum:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055386133

I take it it's your first assignment back in college?? :pac:

no, thats the serious thread, this is the after hours mad house
where we ransom graduates and export brains (the zombie forum will probably buy some of our product)

Its probably the perfect solution to the recession thread.

gurramok

So no-one knows what a knowledge economy is?

Get to be knowledgeable people

Darragh29

I think we're a long way off an knowledge economy. What we need to do first is stop expecting other foreign companies to come here and supply us with employment. We seem to expect Dell, Google, Microsoft, Intel, Wyatts, HP, et al, to come here and come knocking on our door and pick us up and bring us to work!

If we want a knowledge economy to work, we firstly need to drag ourselves up in the innovation department, so that first of all, we have some concept, service or product to market.

The next step is designing the product, solution or service, which is where the knowledge will be required. We aren't even at the table yet with regard to sorting ourselves out.

Ulysses Gaze

If we want a knowledge economy to work, we firstly need to drag ourselves up in the innovation department, so that first of all, we have some concept, service or product to market.

The next step is designing the product, solution or service, which is where the knowledge will be required. We aren't even at the table yet with regard to sorting ourselves out.

Agree with this...I'd class us as an Admin Economy at the moment. To take the next step we'll have to invest heavily in R&D, Science and Tech projects and actually fund and encourage innovation. Finland has Nokia, Sweden has the likes of Ericsson, why can't we create an innovative MNC like those?

brianthebard

I think knowledge economy is the best thing Brian Cowan could have come up with as ammunition for the opposition parties. He claimed FF were delivering this wonderful new age, and there are clearly such terrible short comings in the education sector that he can't hope to fix in the next four years. He shot himself in the foot big time with that one.

Wazdakka

Deleted User wrote: »

Knowledge Economy

Pffftt
Its easy...

I know when I have money

gamer

Say the government makes it a policy,encourage tech education in schools,wouldnt it make more sense in leaving cert everyone picks 4 subjects, ie i wanna be a programmer ,so ill do maths ,physics,english,computer training /programing design in the leaving cert.give 50 per cent extra points for tech/science english subjects if you are applying for a university course in say engineering/computer science.HAVE computer science be a leaving cert subject,at present you get as many points for french as for maths ,or physics.wouldnt the leaving be so much better if you could pick 4 subjects ,and do em well,make irish not compulsory ,after 2nd year in secondary school.
allow colleges to do interviews for tech courses/medicine ,25percent of your points come from the interview.THAT,LL weed out people are that are not suited for the course, ie just cos you have 500 points that doesnt mean you would make a good doctor or lawyer.THAT MEANS that someone with lower points would have a chance at being a doctor or programmer,if they can show specific skills,or aptitude for it.
the leaving cert is mainly a test of memory,and determination, ie read books over and over ,memorise questions that you think will appear in the paper.
design a leaving cert for tech would be programmers /engineers.
HAVE 3 leaving certs, one general type ,like we have now,one for techies, another one for arts /business.
Maybe give extra grants to students who are doing tech/engineering courses.
set up low tax industrial zones for small tech start ups.ie you pay no tax the first 5 years in this area.

eVeNtInE

This post has been deleted.

Darragh29

gamer wrote: »

Say the government makes it a policy,encourage tech education in schools,wouldnt it make more sense in leaving cert everyone picks 4 subjects, ie i wanna be a programmer ,so ill do maths ,physics,english,computer training /programing design in the leaving cert.give 50 per cent extra points for tech/science english subjects if you are applying for a university course in say engineering/computer science.HAVE computer science be a leaving cert subject,at present you get as many points for french as for maths ,or physics.wouldnt the leaving be so much better if you could pick 4 subjects ,and do em well,make irish not compulsory ,after 2nd year in secondary school.
allow colleges to do interviews for tech courses/medicine ,25percent of your points come from the interview.THAT,LL weed out people are that are not suited for the course, ie just cos you have 500 points that doesnt mean you would make a good doctor or lawyer.THAT MEANS that someone with lower points would have a chance at being a doctor or programmer,if they can show specific skills,or aptitude for it.
the leaving cert is mainly a test of memory,and determination, ie read books over and over ,memorise questions that you think will appear in the paper.
design a leaving cert for tech would be programmers /engineers.
HAVE 3 leaving certs, one general type ,like we have now,one for techies, another one for arts /business.
Maybe give extra grants to students who are doing tech/engineering courses.
set up low tax industrial zones for small tech start ups.ie you pay no tax the first 5 years in this area.

I couldn't disagree with a word of what you've said above Gamer. The only problem is that the time for investing in the computers and the technology at secondary school level, was the last ten years. It wasn't done so it's highly unlikely that it will be done in the next ten years, in other words, a missed opportunity.

I don't think we need to "train" people to be innovative. Innovation and entrepreneurship are there in abundance, we just need to incentivise it and encourage people to be confident enough to present their vision and breath life into it. It's a terrible pity that all for the want of a small bit of effective leadership from the government in areas like innovation and entrepreneurship, we are in all probability going to lose so much. Call me a pessimist but I genuinely think we will end up back where we were in the 80's, because we have such poor political leadership.

Ulysses Gaze

Call me a pessimist but I genuinely think we will end up back where we were in the 80's, because we have such poor political leadership.

Hey, we are already starting to suffer a brain-drain as a lot of young techies are fecking off overseas to work in OZ, the States and thw Middle-East.

Our 10 year obsession and addiction to property is going to bite us in the ass. All that emphasis on a non-productive sector of the economy took the focus away from developing an export based innovative economy.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

It's not knowledge that Ireland collectively lacks - it's got knowledge in abundance - it's creativity and the ability to turn the knowledge into ideas and the ideas into results. We tend to follow trends and go for the safer, more reliable route.

Darragh29

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

It's not knowledge that Ireland collectively lacks - it's got knowledge in abundance - it's creativity and the ability to turn the knowledge into ideas and the ideas into results. We tend to follow trends and go for the safer, more reliable route.

We have everything we need, we have all the ingredients. We're just missing the chef. When I see Brian Cowen and more so when I see Mary Coughlan talking, I often think if we could just stop these two talking, we might get somewhere. They keep telling us that the solution is out of our hands, we have to await an improvement in worldwide circumstances to visit us again before we can expect an improvement in our economy.

Am I missing something here??? We have to tighten our belts and wait for an improvement in the global economy before we can get back on our feet??? I don't know whether to laugh or cry when I hear that, and it's Mary Coughlan who keeps repeating it more than the others... We should be waiting for fu*king nobody, with change comes opportunity, we should be better off than any other country, we should be out of recession by now...

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Darragh29 wrote: »

We have everything we need, we have all the ingredients. We're just missing the chef. When I see Brian Cowen and more so when I see Mary Coughlan talking, I often think if we could just stop these two talking, we might get somewhere. They keep telling us that the solution is out of our hands, we have to await an improvement in worldwide circumstances to visit us again before we can expect an improvement in our economy.

Am I missing something here??? We have to tighten our belts and wait for an improvement in the global economy before we can get back on our feet??? I don't know whether to laugh or cry when I hear that, and it's Mary Coughlan who keeps repeating it more than the others... We should be waiting for fu*king nobody, with change comes opportunity, we should be better off than any other country, we should be out of recession by now...

.... the chef usually being the creative one who comes up with the receipe.

Darragh29

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

.... the chef usually being the creative one who comes up with the receipe.

You know the point I'm making, we have 95% of the task in the bag.

cson

The leadership in this country is shocking. Cowen just doesn't seem to have a clue. But who else are can we turn to? Enda Kenny?

I'm not a blueshirt by any stretch, but I'd love to see Richard Bruton as Taoiseach.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Darragh29 wrote: »

You know the point I'm making, we have 95% of the task in the bag.

I know, but it's something I've noticed about Ireland some time ago: for all it's strengths, it's very scared of new ideas. If we did have that last 5% the country would be sorted. I think it needs a strain of it on all levels, not just at the top, though. Government, management, teachers, everywhere.

leninbenjamin

our knowledge economy is a myth. primarily because our secondary school system is sh*t for maths and the sciences. also, since the late 1980s, our spend on research and post grads has actually decreased once inflation has been taken into account.

and now the govt. want to cut their spending on Universities by another 3%; we can't attract people of the necessary skills, let alone even hang onto our own best graduates, to have anything that resembles a real knowledge economy.

Darragh29

cson wrote: »

The leadership in this country is shocking. Cowen just doesn't seem to have a clue. But who else are can we turn to? Enda Kenny?

I'm not a blueshirt by any stretch, but I'd love to see Richard Bruton as Taoiseach.

I couldn't agree more. I dispise Fianna Gael because they tolerate Enda Kenny. He might have reunited a party which is one achievement, but he is not leadership material. He simply lacks vision. I have yet to vote for Fianna Gael, I have never once given them a first preference vote or any other kind of vote.

I come from a FF household and up until about 5-7 years ago, I voted for the FF candidate. Then I realised that FF were corrupt and down there with the sh*t that you throw out when you've peeled the potatoes and got that sh*tty stuff off the meat you're about to fry.

I couldn't vote for FG 'cos I'd be voting for John Bruton, Michael Noonan or Enda Kenny, and I couldn't vote for FF because I just couldn't do the right thing by myself anymore.

Recently I've seen Richard Bruton and if he makes party leader, they have my vote. He is clearly leadership material, and for the life of me I cannot understand why FG have not identified hm as a man with real leadership ability. Enda Kenny might have brought the party together buy there is no way I will ever vote for him to be Taoiseach. Brian Cowen is the problem, not the solution. So where is the solution???

Darragh29

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

I know, but it's something I've noticed about Ireland some time ago: for all it's strengths, it's very scared of new ideas. If we did have that last 5% the country would be sorted. I think it needs a strain of it on all levels, not just at the top, though. Government, management, teachers, everywhere.

What we need I think is free thinking and discussion. We can't have that with vested interests like unions, teachers (who cannot speak but through their union, which is regrettable), management (for that read IBEC).

What we need is a forum through which any person who can be positive, can openly contribute and be sucessful. We need to help the people who can contribute, to do so outside of the relm of vested interests who have taken up their voice and become their spokesperson for a subscription fee that ultimately pays for an SLK Mercedes for the union executive.

KnifeWRENCH

Darragh29 wrote: »

I couldn't agree more. I dispise Fianna Gael because they tolerate Enda Kenny. He might have reunited a party which is one achievement, but he is not leadership material. He simply lacks vision. I have yet to vote for Fianna Gael, I have never once given them a first preference vote or any other kind of vote.

I come from a FF household and up until about 5-7 years ago, I voted for the FF candidate. Then I realised that FF were corrupt and down there with the sh*t that you throw out when you've peeled the potatoes and got that sh*tty stuff off the meat you're about to fry.

I couldn't vote for FG 'cos I'd be voting for John Bruton, Michael Noonan or Enda Kenny, and I couldn't vote for FF because I just couldn't do the right thing by myself anymore.

Recently I've seen Richard Bruton and if he makes party leader, they have my vote. He is clearly leadership material, and for the life of me I cannot understand why FG have not identified hm as a man with real leadership ability. Enda Kenny might have brought the party together buy there is no way I will ever vote for him to be Taoiseach. Brian Cowen is the problem, not the solution. So where is the solution???

I was the opposite: my parents always voted either FG or Labour - my uncle is even a member of Labour. But I would* vote for FF becuase I simply have more faith in Cowen and his cabinet than I would have in Kenny or Bruton or FG in general.
Apart from Dr. James Reilly (who I think would be a good health minister) there is no-one in FG that stands out.

(*I say "would" because I have never been able to vote in an election before)

Darragh29

square_igloo wrote: »

I was the opposite: my parents always voted either FG or Labour - my uncle is even a member of Labour. But I would* vote for FF becuase I simply have more faith in Cowen and his cabinet than I would have in Kenny or Bruton or FG in general.
Apart from Dr. James Reilly (who I think would be a good health minister) there is no-one in FG that stands out.

(*I say "would" because I have never been able to vote in an election before)

I like to see oppotunity and I look at FF, I wouldn't p*ss on one of them if they were on fire. There can be no doubt, they were in power for the best part of the last 15 years and whatever issues we have now, they have caused them, there is no chance of it being the opposition this time.

I see FG, I see a leadership problem, but I see huge potential in Richard Bruton, but I don't see him being in a ledership position anytime soon.

What I really see is a big huge fu*king gap, that some decent people could fill if the right mix of unique people came together.

experiMental

I see very few incentives that encourage people to produce something for knowledge economy, especially for graduates.

There's too much pressure to pay the bills to survive, and most of the creative jobs that contribute to knowledge capital are not paying enough for one person to survive in main cities like Dublin and Cork.

You'll need a large team of people to create a project, and stay in contact with them almost 24/7. The only places where you get a large multidisciplinary team together are in these main cities.

If the team is scattered around the country in very inaccessible places without proper broadband access, you're going to get into major communications barriers.

Some investors are expecting entrepeneurs to be able to run their business and come up with innovative ideas at the same time, which is unreasonable.

So if everybody will start thinking more realistically and rents and property prices will go down significantly, and incomes will go up, there would be a chance of knowledge economy taking off.

Darragh29

experiMental wrote: »

I see very few incentives that encourage people to produce something for knowledge economy, especially for graduates.

There's too much pressure to pay the bills to survive, and most of the creative jobs that contribute to knowledge capital are not paying enough for one person to survive in main cities like Dublin and Cork.

You'll need a large team of people to create a project, and stay in contact with them almost 24/7. The only places where you get a large multidisciplinary team together are in these main cities.

If the team is scattered around the country in very inaccessible places without proper broadband access, you're going to get into major communications barriers.

Some investors are expecting entrepeneurs to be able to run their business and come up with innovative ideas at the same time, which is unreasonable.

So if everybody will start thinking more realistically and rents and property prices will go down significantly, and incomes will go up, there would be a chance of knowledge economy taking off.

I don't know what it is about us as a country but we have to find some way of believing in ourselves more. What we need and I'm looking at setting this up at the moment, is an organisation along the lines of BNI, but with a credit union function to it as well, an organisation just for small business start-ups... You sign up and your membership fee is lodged as a share and you can borrow against it for your business, but your business plan is teased out by other members and your credit application goes before an approval committee, just like a credit union. A bit like Freemasonry for business start-ups, an organistion that can firstly support you in preparation for your business launch, that would meet up every week and be the first port of call that you can call to when there is a problem.

simu

It's a handy little place holder used by people who want to avoid having to say something solid but yet wish to sound like they care about the future of Ireland/our economy/our education system.

Cut the BS people!

rainbow kirby

leninbenjamin wrote: »

our knowledge economy is a myth. primarily because our secondary school system is sh*t for maths and the sciences. also, since the late 1980s, our spend on research and post grads has actually decreased once inflation has been taken into account.

and now the govt. want to cut their spending on Universities by another 3%; we can't attract people of the necessary skills, let alone even hang onto our own best graduates, to have anything that resembles a real knowledge economy.

Agree 100% with this. Politicians talk about an economy based on knowledge and technology, yet spending on education is being cut, companies complain about the quantity and quality of graduates in the technical subjects and the numbers of students even trying the more technical subjects both at second and third level is minimal.

From the point of view of one who will graduate with a BSc in Computer Science in 2009 - I am no exception to what Ulysses Gaze was talking about when he said "Hey, we are already starting to suffer a brain-drain as a lot of young techies are fecking off overseas to work in OZ, the States and thw Middle-East.". I'm currently trying to work out where I'm going to go as I really can't see much of a reason to stay here.

leninbenjamin

rainbow kirby wrote: »

From the point of view of one who will graduate with a BSc in Computer Science in 2009 - I am no exception to what Ulysses Gaze was talking about when he said "Hey, we are already starting to suffer a brain-drain as a lot of young techies are fecking off overseas to work in OZ, the States and thw Middle-East.". I'm currently trying to work out where I'm going to go as I really can't see much of a reason to stay here.

heh, same story here. getting a masters in computer science and then feckin off hopefully. Oz is pretty cool man, pretty laid back quality of life, loads of outdoor activities to de-stress when away from the comp and good weather. :pac:

Darragh29

leninbenjamin wrote: »

heh, same story here. getting a masters in computer science and then feckin off hopefully. Oz is pretty cool man, pretty laid back quality of life, loads of outdoor activities to de-stress when away from the comp and good weather. :pac:

One of my customers has a son who went to Aus and started up a small IT business and his quality of life as opposed to what he could expect here was just uncomparable. He bought a big beachhouse for around $200K, he worked from home, got up every day and walked the dogs on the beach was basically is front garden. I often wonder what ancestor of mine is responsible for me being here, pity there was no Ryanair back then!!!