McCain suspends campaign

is_that_so

Both of them now appear to recognise the importance of this over anything else. News is sketchy at present as to what exactly is going on beyond the discussion over the debate but there is a rumour of a joint statement.

Naturally both are trying to manoeuvre in order to get some credit from the solution.

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/24/campaign.wrap/index.html

sink

It's frankly ridiculous that McCain has called a halt to the race and pulled out of fridays debate. It is not impossible to do both, multi-tasking is part of the job and if he's not up to it whether or not he has the stamina required of the US President come into question. I see a political opportunity here for Obama if he plays it right.

BenjAii

I think McCain is running scared, Obama is quite rightly holding him to the debate on friday.

It's a left-field move on his part though, he needs to put distance between himself & the current administration who are identified with this sort of corruption and incompetence.

My hunch is it isn't going to work for him ......

Jack Sheehan

McCain has fallen a lot in recent polls, this seems like a desperate gamble.

Overheal

McCain's campaign also said that he had canceled his appearance on "The Late Show with David Letterman" on Wednesday night.

I would do ANYTHING to get out of Letterman.

"It's my belief that this is exactly the time when the American people need to hear from the person will be the next president," Obama said. "It is going to be part of the president's job to deal with more than one thing at once. It's more important than ever to present ourselves to the American people."

Thats very well and good but

"The clock is ticking on this crisis. We have to act swiftly, but we also have to get it right," Obama said in Dunedin, Florida. "And that means everyone -- Republicans and Democrats, and the White House and Congress -- must work together to come up with a solution that protects American taxpayers and our economy without rewarding those whose greed helped get us into this problem in the first place."
Obama said it's unacceptable to expect the American people to "hand this administration or any administration a $700 billion check with no conditions and no oversight when a lack of oversight in Washington and on Wall Street is exactly what got us into this mess."

He said struggling homeowners must be taken care of in any economic recovery plan -- and that taxpayers should "not be spending one dime to reward the same Wall Street CEOs whose greed and irresponsibility got us into this mess."

So which is it - do we need debate or do we need all our best hands working in Washington?

Not a smooth move to dodge a debate ultimately: this will look very bad for him by saturday.

Johnathon

I really hope McCain doesn't get elected. All we need is 4 more years of an administration like Bush's. Bush ruined this counrty, it is time for change....

Overheal

Johnathon wrote: »

.

I just wanted to say that is the most heinous mutilation of my first name, EVER.

Also: thank you for being a Barrack Obama walking campaign ad.

bobbyjoe

Palin should stand in for him in the debate, thats her new job.

lostexpectation

running scared from a economics debate with obama

kmart6

What a pussy away of trying to avoid the debate!

Manic Moran

sink wrote: »

It's frankly ridiculous that McCain has called a halt to the race and pulled out of fridays debate. It is not impossible to do both, multi-tasking is part of the job and if he's not up to it whether or not he has the stamina required of the US President come into question.

On the contrary, one of the big complaints has been that this year's campaign season has been so long that the candidates have been spending very little time doing the job they were elected to do. It's not a case of doing a press conference or press of hands an hour down the road in Arklow, before coming back for the Afternoon Session, American campaigning takes you on the road for days at a time. As President, technically you can Presidise wherever Air Force 1 is. It's kindof hard to work your vote in the Senate when you're campaigning in Oregon.

running scared from a economics debate with obama

What a pussy away of trying to avoid the debate!

Given that the topic of the first debate is McCain's strength (Foreign policy and security) I find this unlikely. The Economic policy debate is mid-October.
(I probably should put "debate" in quotation marks, as I've very rarely seen one which is adversarial enough to merit the title)

NTM

sink

Manic Moran wrote: »

On the contrary, one of the big complaints has been that this year's campaign season has been so long that the candidates have been spending very little time doing the job they were elected to do. It's not a case of doing a press conference or press of hands an hour down the road in Arklow, before coming back for the Afternoon Session, American campaigning takes you on the road for days at a time. As President, technically you can Presidise wherever Air Force 1 is. It's kindof hard to work your vote in the Senate when you're campaigning in Oregon.

The Majority leader of the Senate confirmed there would be no vote on Friday evening and that the candidates would be free to attend the debate. McCain should be able to work on strategy while commuting as all he needs is a decent communications system to hold meetings with his top advisor's. It's all part of the job and it's not as if he or Barak are going to play a central role in the debate requiring their presence as there are 98 other senators that will be involved.

Fighting Irish

is_that_so wrote: »

Both of them now appear to recognise the importance of this over anything else. News is sketchy at present as to what exactly is going on beyond the discussion over the debate but there is a rumour of a joint statement.

Naturally both are trying to manoeuvre in order to get some credit from the solution.

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/24/campaign.wrap/index.html

At best its a good political gimmick

Manic Moran

sink wrote: »

t's not as if he or Barak are going to play a central role in the debate requiring their presence as there are 98 other senators that will be involved.

Are you suggesting that it's a good thing that these two high-profile Senators, one of which is going to be in charge of whatever comes out of the legislation, should not be particularly involved in the wheeling/dealing which is required for the legislation to be created, and the two candidates for President should instead leave it to everyone else?

Besides, don't forget that the People of the Great States of Illinois and Arizona both voted their Senators into office to work on their behalf. I'm sure when it comes down to something this important that they wouldn't mind their Senators actually doing a bit of Senatorial work.

NTM

cooker3

Johnathon wrote: »

I really hope McCain doesn't get elected. All we need is 4 more years of an administration like Bush's. Bush ruined this counrty, it is time for change....

I am Barack Obama and I approve this message

Anyway Bush has invited them both to Washington work on it or do whatever they do, shall be an interesting few days

brendansmith

Johnathon wrote: »

I really hope McCain doesn't get elected. All we need is 4 more years of an administration like Bush's. Bush ruined this counrty, it is time for change....

Ah c'mon, a little bit of war never hurt anyone:D

McCain ftw! The wisdom that comes with age is what the US needs now.

Craft25

Correct me if im wrong but is it not true that Obama was caught completely by surprise by McCains.. 'offer to work together'

Surely if it were a genuine offer, mcCain would have negotiated it with obama behind closed doors.. so that they could come out with a joint statement

Opportunism at best by McCain, focus group politics aimed at halting the slide caused by his economic weakness during these tough times..

but.. 'ya gotta do what ya gotta do' to win, and his opportunism and percieved weakness doesnt necessarily mean the republican establishment is in fact weaker economically.. but thats for another day

cooker3

Completely off topic but how come posts from this forum appear twice on main page?

brendansmith

cooker3 wrote: »

Completely off topic but how come posts from this forum appear twice on main page?

I was gonna ask that but wasnt bothered

Cianos

One for us and one for the pentagon

Hobbes

Overheal wrote: »

I would do ANYTHING to get out of Letterman.

It is not just Letterman. There are reports that the McCain camp want the VP debates canceled as well.

Overheal

I loved colbert's and stewart's take on the announcement to be honest.
Bah clips arent available yet.
Jon: "Isnt this campaign supposed to be about the economy? You cant take a time out!"
Colbert: "Ladies and Gentlemen, for the good of the country, I am suspending my show."

At the same time I did notice Obama ended up answering the call to return to Washington.

Can't disagree with anyone here, to not hold the debates would be gross, and I would default my vote to Obama/Biden. tbh I still havent made up my mind yet though, so I would love to see these debates.

Hobbes

Craft25 wrote: »

Correct me if im wrong but is it not true that Obama was caught completely by surprise by McCains.. 'offer to work together'

Surely if it were a genuine offer, mcCain would have negotiated it with obama behind closed doors.. so that they could come out with a joint statement

They did behind closed doors at Obamas request and then McCain just ran out and did his press conference.

axer

Hobbes wrote: »

They did behind closed doors at Obamas request and then McCain just ran out and did his press conference.

Yes, Obama was the one that requested it first and McCain sneakily ran out to the media straight away.

I think John McCain needs to change things around with his no campaigning stuff because he is getting nailed by Obama on the economy. It would suit the McCain camp down to the group if the VP debates were cancelled too.

Obama is correct in saying that both sides have their own private airplanes so if they need to be somewhere they can be very quickly. There is no reason why they cannot work on this problem whilst continuing their campaigns - its called multi-tasking.

Black Swan

POOF! Instant financial crisis! POOF! I must cancel the presidential debate the day before to help the American people (for one debate day, when I have been campaigning for a year). Does anyone see the irony in this?

If anyone buys into what these politicians are selling, please let me know, cause POOF! I have some pigs to sell that can fly!

Warren Buffet warned about 4 years ago that this was coming, and then again in March of this year, but was anyone minding the store? The Economist warned about what might happen years ago, along with other journals, predicting the housing bubble bursting and serious economic consequences as a result, but obviously no one in the Bush administration could read the writing on the wall, or for that matter, the US Congress, both Democrats and Republicans.

In another thread I cited the US Treasury as reporting $9.6 trillion in federal deficit as of September 2008, climbing to a US historic high from when Clinton left office with $5.6 trillion. Didn't Bush or anyone in US Congress suspect that someday they were going to have to pay?

And with the projected bailout of $700 billion, and the debt that is rapidly piling up with the Afghan and Iraq Wars, the federal deficit will have almost doubled since Clinton left, to well over $10 trillion by the time Bush leaves office January 2009.

If you are not a die hard Republican or Democrat, look for the hidden agenda behind postponing or eventually canceling the presidential debates. Pure and simple, it's a campaign ploy that has nothing to do with all of a sudden (POOF!) coming to the aid of the American people.

My guess is that McCain was afraid of what happened to Nixon the first time he ran for president against Kennedy. It has been reported time and time again that what really allowed Kennedy to win that election was because he was a highly educated and dynamic speaker, and Nixon was not. Kennedy won the debate and the presidency, not because he was more qualified than Vice President Nixon, but because he was a better speaker. The same threat holds true for McCain, who lacks the public speaking ability of Obama, no matter the subject debated.

OK, I have a question for ye? Can you guess what excuse will be used to cancel the vice presidential debates? Tell us what the next POOF! will be.

Otacon

Manic Moran wrote: »

Are you suggesting that it's a good thing that these two high-profile Senators, one of which is going to be in charge of whatever comes out of the legislation, should not be particularly involved in the wheeling/dealing which is required for the legislation to be created, and the two candidates for President should instead leave it to everyone else?

Besides, don't forget that the People of the Great States of Illinois and Arizona both voted their Senators into office to work on their behalf. I'm sure when it comes down to something this important that they wouldn't mind their Senators actually doing a bit of Senatorial work.

NTM

If I was living in either Illinois, Arizona or any other state, for that matter, I would like to hear, from my next president, what he believes the long term solution to this problem is. At best, the $700 billion bail-out is a short-term solution.

This was a cynical move by McCain. He didn't even mention in his statement, that Obama had approached him earlier that day. Why?

bobbyjoe

He canceled Letterman his reaction below.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjkCrfylq-E

is_that_so

axer wrote: »

Yes, Obama was the one that requested it first and McCain sneakily ran out to the media straight away.

I think John McCain needs to change things around with his no campaigning stuff because he is getting nailed by Obama on the economy. It would suit the McCain camp down to the group if the VP debates were cancelled too.

Obama is correct in saying that both sides have their own private airplanes so if they need to be somewhere they can be very quickly. There is no reason why they cannot work on this problem whilst continuing their campaigns - its called multi-tasking.

Seeing as one of them gets to pick up the mess in a few months it makes sense. It is, after all, all a matter of perception. One thing that has popped up in polls is that voters have not been convinced by either candidate's response to the crisis. This is a good opportunity for them to appear presidential and bi-partisan.

To continue on, this week at least, would give the impression that they have no real interest in the country. As for the debates Obama has a point but the same logic as applies to the campaign could also be applied. A lot of time is devoted to debate preparation, time that might be better spent dealing with the crisis.

axer

bobbyjoe wrote: »

He canceled Letterman his reaction below.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjkCrfylq-E

Letterman makes a good point - why would McCain have to suspend the campaign when he has his trusted second fiddle to run things. If she cannot even run a campaign how could she possibly run the country?

Regarding the debates, since McCain is too busy fixing the country then why can't palin take his place or have biden Vs Palin debate first instead.

axer

is_that_so wrote: »

Seeing as one of them gets to pick up the mess in a few months it makes sense. It is, after all, all a matter of perception. One thing that has popped up in polls is that voters have not been convinced by either candidate's response to the crisis. This is a good opportunity for them to appear presidential and bi-partisan.

Obama is coming out on top now in the polls because of the economy hence McCain's need to make this political whilst pretending to be putting country first.

is_that_so wrote: »

To continue on, this week at least, would give the impression that they have no real interest in the country. As for the debates Obama has a point but the same logic as applies to the campaign could also be applied. A lot of time is devoted to debate preparation, time that might be better spent dealing with the crisis.

What can Obama or McCain single handedly do to fix this? The discussions between the majority and minority leaders was progressing now McCain is going to bring in the presidential politics into the discussions and will f'uck up any progress that has already been made. He is running back to his comfort zone and has hidden palin in a cave somewhere instead of letting her come out and take his place.

is_that_so

axer wrote: »

Obama is coming out on top now in the polls because of the economy hence McCain's need to make this political whilst pretending to be putting country first.

That's politics and your perception.

axer wrote: »

What can Obama or McCain single handedly do to fix this? The discussions between the majority and minority leaders was progressing now McCain is going to bring in the presidential politics into the discussions and will f'uck up any progress that has already been made. He is running back to his comfort zone and has hidden palin in a cave somewhere instead of letting her come out and take his place.

The word is perception, a feature and factor in politics. Not sure what the cave stuff is about but if it means yet another dig at Palin, then it must be good.

axer

is_that_so wrote: »

That's politics and your perception.

It is the americans' perception that Obama has better judgement at handling the economy over McCain. McCain knows this too so he is trying more risky moves i.e. saying he will suspend his campaign - purely to try and get some political gain, not to help in the crisis since he will be bringing presidential politics into the bipartisan discussions which won't help the situation.

is_that_so wrote: »

Not sure what the cave stuff is about but if it means yet another dig at Palin, then it must be good.

Palin is constantly being kept away from journalist's questions e.g. the speed dating of foreign leaders without any questions from the media - completely staged and scripted. They obviously know she wouldn't be able to handle those situations by her own initiative nor be able to give intelligent answers to reporter's questions.

Otacon

is_that_so wrote: »

The word is perception, a feature and factor in politics.

Very true. What do you think American voters will percieve this move to be? A trip back to Washington, where McCain has actually said he has no real expertise in this issue? A way of putting unnecessary pressure on the talks that could de-stablise them by putting presidential politics into the pot? A cynical method of shifting the story from Obama's gathering momentum?

is_that_so

axer wrote: »

It is the americans' perception that Obama has better judgement at handling the economy over McCain. McCain knows this too so he is trying more risky moves i.e. saying he will suspend his campaign - purely to try and get some political gain, not to help in the crisis since he will be bringing presidential politics into the bipartisan discussions which won't help the situation.

Otacon wrote: »

Very true. What do you think American voters will percieve this move to be? A trip back to Washington, where McCain has actually said he has no real expertise in this issue? A way of putting unnecessary pressure on the talks that could de-stablise them by putting presidential politics into the pot? A cynical method of shifting the story from Obama's gathering momentum?

I have no idea what their perception is but the crisis is certainly of more importance than anything else at present. They also get to vote on this and we don't.

Hobbes

is_that_so wrote: »

I have no idea what their perception is but the crisis is certainly of more importance than anything else at present. They also get to vote on this and we don't.

More important then a 2 hour debate on that very subject? What could done in those two hours that will fix the situation?

I would say it would be more important to determine who is best to deal with the mess come the new year.

is_that_so

Hobbes wrote: »

More important then a 2 hour debate on that very subject? What could done in those two hours that will fix the situation?

I would say it would be more important to determine who is best to deal with the mess come the new year.

I think both are important. Both candidates in my view need to allay fears that they won't have any answers. Their actions this week can help show that. Remember "Emperor Bush" with Katrina.

I don't think the debates should be cancelled, but I can see why time this week might be better spent addressing the bailout plan. The problem with this week's debate is that it stands out by virtue of the fact that they'll be talking about things that are not quite as important at present.

Hobbes

is_that_so wrote: »

I think both are important. Both candidates in my view need to allay fears that they won't have any answers.

Actually Obama already clearly laid out his plans on dealing with the crisis some time ago. It is worth a read.

http://www.clipsandcomment.com/2008/09/19/full-text-obama-statement-on-economic-crisis-coral-gables-fl/

If someone knows of McCains plan please let me know.

sink

Manic Moran wrote: »

Are you suggesting that it's a good thing that these two high-profile Senators, one of which is going to be in charge of whatever comes out of the legislation, should not be particularly involved in the wheeling/dealing which is required for the legislation to be created, and the two candidates for President should instead leave it to everyone else?

No I'm not saying the should not be involved but there are things today called mobile phones, video conferencing and private jets and both candidates are fully equipped. What they are not required to do is to act as a party whip knocking on doors and coordinating on the ground which would require their presence in Washington.

Manic Moran wrote: »

Besides, don't forget that the People of the Great States of Illinois and Arizona both voted their Senators into office to work on their behalf. I'm sure when it comes down to something this important that they wouldn't mind their Senators actually doing a bit of Senatorial work.

NTM

Senatorial work does not require them to sit in their Washington office.

Overheal

Hobbes wrote: »

More important then a 2 hour debate on that very subject? What could done in those two hours that will fix the situation?

I understand the plan is to get them both back to washington along with the rest of the government to iron out a non-partisan solution.

True enough, the economy should not be turned into a partisan issue right now. Bad timing, but true.

Ponster

So it's not possible to host a 90-minute debate in Washington instead of wherever (most of the questions are coming via e-mail) as well as appear in the Senate?

Nevyn

http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/185681/september-24-2008/stephen-suspends-the-show

is_that_so

Hobbes wrote: »

Actually Obama already clearly laid out his plans on dealing with the crisis some time ago. It is worth a read.

http://www.clipsandcomment.com/2008/09/19/full-text-obama-statement-on-economic-crisis-coral-gables-fl/

If someone knows of McCains plan please let me know.

Can anyone prove that the plan will work since this current one is on a wing and a prayer?


TBH at this moment it doesn't matter who said what. That kind of thing is like a playground spat.

I see what he said but can he walk the walk? This is what this is about. It is all well and good to write speeches and plans but can either of them be trusted when there is action to be taken? A plan without action is worthless. As Obama keeps saying "The time is now". This is about perception of their actions.

Americans don't seem to trust either based on this.

Ludo

It is still about the policies and not who can get their policies implemented. If you disagree with someones policies why vote for him just coz he can "get them done".
It would still be better to vote for someone who only may get some things done if ya understand me...probably not explaining myself very well as typing this very quickly.
(not that I am saying Obama cannot get things done and McCain can by the way)

galwaydude

John McCain is running scared. It is just a tactic to make it seem like he cares about the economy. He doesnt have a clue. I hope finally America wakes up and stops Bush mark ii getting in. If not then its another miserable 4 years. Look what he has done with Sarah Palin, she has been shielded from the press for the last few weeks. I wonder why.

This country is screwed if the general american public vote McCain in. Granted i am not fan of Obama either but what is the alternative. This country is so corrupt its laughable with all the AIG, Fannie Mae and Lehman Brothers baggage. I hope the FBI get them for fraud.

Overheal

Even according to O'reilly, the situation is at a stage where regardless of who you vote for, the end result will probably pan out the same either way. For instance there will be little/no room to implement socialized healthcare (by obama's own admission) and tax levels are likely to remain the same.

http://www.foxnews.com/oreilly/ (frontpage video)

Hobbes

is_that_so wrote: »

Can anyone prove that the plan will work since this current one is on a wing and a prayer?

Which do you think is better? Having a plan? Or not having one?

TBH at this moment it doesn't matter who said what. That kind of thing is like a playground spat.

I think it is a big deal. Obama showing bipartisanship first, and then McCain trying to win points by claiming he thought of it.

I see what he said but can he walk the walk?

I guess it is easier for McCain to walk when he doesn't have a plan?

A plan without action is worthless.

Action without a plan is sheer stupidity.

galwaydude

The reason been is that we are broke, with all the Wall street going on it is going to suck every penny away from the causes that really matter in this country like affordable healthcare etc.

I just dont want another 4 years of a bush administration or dare i say it a palin administration. If that happens we are truly screwed. What is the view down south Overheal.

Hobbes

Appears McCain has a plan. He wants a committee set up to investigate why it happened. Turns out most of the people who would be investigated are on his bus.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122221440058969313.html

Americans don't seem to trust either based on this.

Funny because most news reports I see show Obama in the lead by 9 points because of the crisis.

btw, that plan Obama had, everything except the 7 point plan was a joint statement from Obama+McCain it turns out.

Manic Moran

sink wrote: »

No I'm not saying the should not be involved but there are things today called mobile phones, video conferencing and private jets and both candidates are fully equipped. What they are not required to do is to act as a party whip knocking on doors and coordinating on the ground which would require their presence in Washington.

Ultimately, nothing is as efficient as a face-to-face conversation. If something is particularly important, in person is the best way of doing it. Besides, don't party whips usually keep their own party in line, as opposed to talking to everyone?

NTM

sink

Manic Moran wrote: »

Ultimately, nothing is as efficient as a face-to-face conversation. If something is particularly important, in person is the best way of doing it. Besides, don't party whips usually keep their own party in line, as opposed to talking to everyone?

NTM

While I agree that nothing is as effective as face-to-face communications, video conferencing is a good substitute. Video conferencing is much better for efficiently managing tight time constraints and it does not get much tighter than a presidential campaign. Taking 2-3 days off to deal with one issue is not efficiently managing ones time imho. And while face-to-face communications is marginally more effective it is not so much more effective that it is likely to make a huge difference to the outcome.

is_that_so

Hobbes wrote: »

Which do you think is better? Having a plan? Or not having one?

Did I say no plan was a good idea or is that just your assumption?

I think it is a big deal. Obama showing bipartisanship first, and then McCain trying to win points by claiming he thought of it.

And this is different from a playground spat how?

I guess it is easier for McCain to walk when he doesn't have a plan?

It applies to both as far as I am concerned.

Action without a plan is sheer stupidity.

It is but who knows whether the plan can be trusted. The only plan in play is the Paulson-Bernake plan.