Conservatism

tolosenc

Firstly, I consider myself to be a conservative. Not on religious grounds or any radical beliefs -I just have a quite conservative viewpoint on a lot of issues (not all, I might add).

Having just been in North America for 3 months, I have experienced the wrath of the majority Liberals in the cities who seem to be almost all prejudiced about conservatism, and seem to think we're all nut-jobs who "just don't understand". When I got back here and talked to people here about it, their reaction was along the line of "what's your problem, they're right".

What I really want to know is: why is there such a stigmatisation about conservatism? And is such an opinion not contrary to the beliefs of liberals?

DadaKopf

It's funny, I honestly don't know what 'conservative' and 'liberal' means in American parlence. Somehow, you can have 'conservatives' championing state socialism for the financial sector, when until recently they were paranoiacally a'feard of communism and the 'big state'. And, given America's ideological pedigree, 'liberal' should probably mean anti-big-state, but instead it's a by-word for big-state intervention.

I'm just very confused by the whole thing and can't help but think this whole conservatives vs. liberals thing is a bit like the Blur and Oasis thing back in the day.

tolosenc

DadaKopf wrote: »

this whole conservatives vs. liberals thing is a bit like the Blur and Oasis thing back in the day.

:rolleyes:

sink

It's all a big joke. America was founded on economic classical liberalism and the Republican party still follows that ideology in to a large extent while being socially conservative. The Democrats broadly follow economic social liberalism and are socially progressive but there is a lot of crossover between the two. Partisanship has grown in recent years simply because it motivates people to get out and vote. That is why in red states liberal is a dirty word and in blue states it's conservative that take on that mantra. It's easier to motivate people to vote against something than it is to get them to vote for something.

nesf

Just a point to bear in mind, liberal doesn't mean the same thing in American politics as it does in the rest of the world. Liberal does not mean big state intervention in Europe etc.

O'Morris

nesf wrote: »

Liberal does not mean big state intervention in Europe etc.

What's the difference with European liberals then? How are they different from American liberals?

nesf

O'Morris wrote: »

What's the difference with European liberals then? How are they different from American liberals?

There are two main differences, first how the word is used. In the US it's used as meaning the opposite of conservative by the media and in political rhetoric even though (honestly) both parties are liberal in the classical sense. In Europe, the definition is not so narrow (multi-party systems make for less polarising labels for the most part) and less divisive and there are many definitions of what is "liberalism" so can get many varieties of "liberals" in a single country. In the US it's less nuanced a term.


Secondly, in economic terms American liberals are a fair bit to the right of European liberals (simply because both tend towards being centrist in terms of their own country and the US centre being further to the right than the European centre). What's "left wing" economically in the US is pretty much "centre right" economically in most European countries. In social terms it varies hugely country to country. A self-identified liberal in Ireland might be a lot more conservative socially than a liberal in France for instance. This makes bringing the label over from one country to another quite complicated because you might disagree strongly with the liberals in Country A but find yourself agreeing with the liberals in Country B simply because of where the centre is, both economically and socially in the two countries.

ChocolateSauce

obl wrote: »

Firstly, I consider myself to be a conservative. Not on religious grounds or any radical beliefs -I just have a quite conservative viewpoint on a lot of issues (not all, I might add).

Having just been in North America for 3 months, I have experienced the wrath of the majority Liberals in the cities who seem to be almost all prejudiced about conservatism, and seem to think we're all nut-jobs who "just don't understand". When I got back here and talked to people here about it, their reaction was along the line of "what's your problem, they're right".

What I really want to know is: why is there such a stigmatisation about conservatism? And is such an opinion not contrary to the beliefs of liberals?

In America "liberal" is acquiring the approprium of a dirty word, thanks to the religious right, and American liberals are understandably insulted, and so there is a backlash against them.

I've always thought of conservatives as opposed to my interests for the simple reason that, generally speaking, liberals are happy to let conservatives be conservatives, but conservatives try to restrict the freedom of liberals (hence why liberal means liberty).

Kama

Agree with Dada, I don't really know what Conservative/Liberal split 'means' ideologically, as opposed to a kneejerk tribal-partisan antagonism. Otoh, came across this earlier, an experiment taking startle response on being shown frightening images and relating that to expressed political views. Conservatives in general had higher startle responses, more perspiration etc.

Startle responses, moreover, cannot be used to predict the political views of any one individual -- there are many liberals who startle easily and many conservatives who do not. What the study did find is that, across groups of people, there seems to be an association between sensitivity to physical threats and sensitivity to threats affecting social groups and social order...[T]hey may arrive at their positions in part because they are predisposed to be more or less worried about risk.

It didn't cover economics, but has an intuitive fit with conservative-realist-defensive postures and liberal-idealist approaches in relation to risk perception and threats. Which is definitely not to say that one is more right than the other, but that the salience of events would be managed by the amygdala more than the neocortex.

The Corinthian

Very, very generally (and very simplistically):

Conservatism = Preserve stability / status quo.
Liberalism = Change status quo / Society.

As such, economically and socially the terms will mean different things in different places - and at different times (what was radical once upon a time, when adopted and accepted, can become the status quo).

Frankly, it's not unlike terms such as left and right wing. Relative clichés that are really only of use to student politicians who need labels to define themselves.