Khan signs up with Roach !

ODD-JOB

Rubio is given the shove , and the blame for Khans last debacle.
I'd say oliver Harrison is still laughing !

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/more_sport/article4791181.ece

Last chance saloon , as Khan gets his 4th trainer in 4 months !! He certainly cant blame Freddie Roach , should he fall at the next hurdle.

nacho libre

He wanted to be world champ by 21 yet now they are blaming the trainer for putting him in against a difficult opponent.
So much for self responsiblity. It is always easier to blame someone else for your shortcomings. Roach won't eradicate his glass jaw that's for sure. So will he get the boot to?

joepenguin

Its a bit harsh on Rubio getting the sack for something hat wasnt his fault. The book stops with Warren on Khans opponents. I dont think he was suited to the job anyway. Tbh I didnt think that would matter for the next few fights anyway.
Didnt they go against all the american trainers because that meant going over there to live? I Suppose now they see that sacrafices may need to be made. With skills and a chin like that he better pick a trainer that is suited to him and is in it for the long run

walshb

joepenguin wrote: »

Its a bit harsh on Rubio getting the sack for something hat wasnt his fault. The book stops with Warren on Khans opponents. I dont think he was suited to the job anyway. Tbh I didnt think that would matter for the next few fights anyway.
Didnt they go against all the american trainers because that meant going over there to live? I Suppose now they see that sacrafices may need to be made. With skills and a chin like that he better pick a trainer that is suited to him and is in it for the long run

Hold on, it was Rubio who picked the guy, remember. Warren is not a 'boxing' man; he is a promoter who doesn't pick opponents. Khan's trainer and camp do this and Warren was only going by their 'expert' advice!

joepenguin

well from what little ive seen of prescott (a youtube vid of his american fight and 54 seconds with khan) his fighting style is perfect for Khan. Everyone thought Khan would either take him out or box him all night long.
Plus as said before he wants to be the world champ by 21 and was ready any time, so he cant complain if someone picks an opponent who has for the most part fought in his country KOing guys with losing records and then didnt impress in the states. The stats suited sky ppv as well.
Warren may not pick opponents but the book stops with him. Its not as if what Rubio says goes. Maybe Rubio didnt realise how chinny Khan is but Warren would have.

cowzerp

Have to agree with joe here..

walshb

Warren did know that Khan was chinny, so maybe he does not have the say on the opponent. He simply promotes it, and ultimately, it is the management who has the final say. For all we know, Warren may well have protested and been told either take it or leave it and therefore his hands were tied. From Warren's immediate reaction after the bout when interviewd, this is what I got. He basically blamed the trainer and management for selecting Prescott. You cannot blame Warren here!

Tony Broke

joepenguin wrote: »

well from what little ive seen of prescott (a youtube vid of his american fight and 54 seconds with khan) his fighting style is perfect for Khan. Everyone thought Khan would either take him out or box him all night long.
Plus as said before he wants to be the world champ by 21 and was ready any time, so he cant complain if someone picks an opponent who has for the most part fought in his country KOing guys with losing records and then didnt impress in the states. The stats suited sky ppv as well.
Warren may not pick opponents but the book stops with him. Its not as if what Rubio says goes. Maybe Rubio didnt realise how chinny Khan is but Warren would have.

Agreed.

Doesn't that just prove how **** boxing has become that its more to do with picking the right opponents than fighting the best.Blaming the trainer for picking a good fighter!!!

What has happend to boxing ffs?

By making the comments he did Warren just confirmed what everyone now knows, that Khan will be fed bums until the time when he can't avoid a decent fighter again, unfortunately for Khan that day will come again.Unless he mans up and gets out of his comfort zone.

He needs to get out of england if he wants to be big time, powerful and fast latino/ hispanic boxers are two a penny in LA.He needs to live it rough again and spar with new fighters in different surroundings.It's gotta be an all-our war everyday, to be a great fighter.

walshb

Tony Broke wrote: »

Agreed.

Doesn't that just prove how **** boxing has become that its more to do with picking the right opponents than fighting the best.Blaming the trainer for picking a good fighter!!!

What has happend to boxing ffs?

By making the comments he did Warren just confirmed what everyone now knows, that Khan will be fed bums until the time when he can't avoid a decent fighter again, unfortunately for Khan that day will come again.Unless he mans up and gets out of his comfort zone.

He needs to get out of england if he wants to be big time, powerful and fast latino/ hispanic boxers are two a penny in LA.He needs to live it rough again and spar with new fighters in different surroundings.It's gotta be an all-our war everyday, to be a great fighter.

Look, I'm not defending Khan here; but with your 'star' prospect, you have to thread carefully. It's like putting in Cassius Clay in say 1961 v Liston? Do you do it?

No you don't. Does it mean Clay was not up to it? Yes it does, but the reasons are that Clay was too young and inexperienced.

Khan is a pro 4 years and yes, he should have been facing stiffer opposition every fight; but throwing him in against a guy with a 90 percent KO record and knowing that Khan has chin issues is plain silly.

Why not wait a little longer. Hell yes., he may still get found out; but at least aged 23/24, he stands a better chance V a Prescott type fighter!

joepenguin

walshb wrote: »

.

Khan is a pro 4 years and yes, he should have been facing stiffer opposition every fight; but throwing him in against a guy with a 90 percent KO record and knowing that Khan has chin issues is plain silly.

Why not wait a little longer. Hell yes., he may still get found out; but at least aged 23/24, he stands a better chance V a Prescott type fighter!

Agreed, it was plain silly, and IMO on Warrens behalf. He has a potential gem and multiple weight world champ if handled correctly (by that i mean fed the right opponents the whole way through his career, its not a nice fact, but a hard one).

He should have went in with some proper lightweights with semi decent power first and take it from there. Going from fighting much smaller men to precott was a bit of a jump.

So is Khan signing with Roach or what? I see that Khan and Pacman will train together for a while So khan sees how a professional works:
http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=16025

T-K-O

This is hilarious, I remember Khan telling everyone that "it felt right with this trainer and he was the guy to take Amir to the next level"

walshb

joepenguin wrote: »

Agreed, it was plain silly, and IMO on Warrens behalf. He has a potential gem and multiple weight world champ if handled correctly (by that i mean fed the right opponents the whole way through his career, its not a nice fact, but a hard one).

He should have went in with some proper lightweights with semi decent power first and take it from there. Going from fighting much smaller men to precott was a bit of a jump.

So is Khan signing with Roach or what? I see that Khan and Pacman will train together for a while So khan sees how a professional works:
http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=16025

So all we disagree on is who is to blame.

Warren is NOT a boxing man, he is a promoter and it's up to the trainers and management to select the opponent. Warren's input here is limited and not 'expert,' hence, I cannot blame him!

T-K-O

walshb wrote: »

So all we disagree on is who is to blame.

Warren is NOT a boxing man, he is a promoter and it's up to the trainers and management to select the opponent. Warren's input here is limited and not 'expert,' hence, I cannot blame him!

I would not blame Warren at all. When Khan was talking about world titles on ITV, Frank always harped on about a two year plan. It was Amir pushing not Frank.

Q. Who is to blame?
Ans. Amir Khan.

joepenguin

walshb wrote: »

So all we disagree on is who is to blame.

Kind of yeah. I mean Rubio picked him so words must be had of the "big puncher + terrible chin= ko" nature. I think my main gripe is that Warren and team Khan played the "blame the new guy" card. They shouldnt have picked yer man in the first place, but who can blame him for taking it.
EDIT: Picked Rubio that is, and who can blame him for taking the job. Same could be said for precott though

cowzerp

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,12183_4183725,00.html

no deal agreed with roach and khan..

walshb

One thing you have to admire about Amir, is his eagerness to get back in the ring and try and rectify his error. That takes balls, and it takes balls to want to come back so soon!

cowzerp

The quicker he wipes out the bad memory the better, like falling off a bike!

ODD-JOB

Although I've always rooted for him to loose , You got to feel for Amir khan. I mean , He's having a personal nightmare deep inside. He's got gloating critics , haters and negative press balanced against him at the moment.
he'll feel the average man on the street whispering in his presence.
As WalshB was saying , he got a bit of courage facing all this head on. He carried the massive weight of expectation on his shoulders more than any other in his country.

Its a big step for a young lad to attend the wild card amongst these serious talents and prospects. Its going to be very uncomfortable for him at first you'd imagine.

Im not slating Dunne here , but Bernard Dunne more or less disappeared until all blew over.....it was ages before he then crept back quietly and began building his credibility back slowly but solidly.

Amir's tackling it pretty much head-on here , and got something on for Dec 6th i believe. So much pressure for a lad like him .

plasmaguy

The fight against Prescott showed that Khan will never be a world champion, with that glass jaw. Breidis is impressive though, wonder can he go all the way to the top.

Boxing at the end of the day is about being able to give a big punch and take a big punch, Khan cannot take a big punch and he was fine as an amatuar with the headgear, but Khan's reputation of being fragile around the chin will get around and he will suffer many more defeats.

I guess he will be a nice earner for Frank Warren if he can be kept away from serious contenders and fight journeymen and late replacements instead.

But it's great to see true boxers like Breidis make it against all the hype surrounding some boxers.

plasmaguy

joepenguin wrote: »

Agreed, it was plain silly, and IMO on Warrens behalf. He has a potential gem and multiple weight world champ if handled correctly (by that i mean fed the right opponents the whole way through his career, its not a nice fact, but a hard one).

He should have went in with some proper lightweights with semi decent power first and take it from there. Going from fighting much smaller men to precott was a bit of a jump.

So is Khan signing with Roach or what? I see that Khan and Pacman will train together for a while So khan sees how a professional works:
http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=16025

What's the point of being world champ if you have to avoid certain fighters and pick and choose who you fight.

I could be wrong but don't you have to have compulsorary fights when fighting for the world championships, so you can't avoid the likes of Breidis forever and Rubio above everyone knows that.

Warren wants to make money, Rubio and Khan want to be taken seriously and earn respect in the boxing world and to do that you have to fight and maybe lose against the likes of Prescott.

Sure you can make millions in boxing with the right promotion and avoiding serious fighters, as Nassar Hamad did, but I don't think Khan wants that.

Big Ears

plasmaguy wrote: »

What's the point of being world champ if you have to avoid certain fighters and pick and choose who you fight.

I could be wrong but don't you have to have compulsorary fights when fighting for the world championships, so you can't avoid the likes of Breidis forever and Rubio above everyone knows that.

Warren wants to make money, Rubio and Khan want to be taken seriously and earn respect in the boxing world and to do that you have to fight and maybe lose against the likes of Prescott.

Sure you can make millions in boxing with the right promotion and avoiding serious fighters, as Nassar Hamad did, but I don't think Khan wants that.

World title holders do have to make mandatory defences but with Warren's connections at the WBO if Khan was to ever hold that title then the only mandatories that would be forced on him would be Klaus Peter Kohl(Universum) promoted fighters. Joe Calzaghe only ever had to make 2 mandatory defences of his WBO title in 11 years. Both times were against Mario Veit, and the second time it actually cost our own Brian Magee a shot at Calzaghe.

Sports Network and Universum are the two promotional companies who have a big say in what they want with the WBO.

Anyway Khan will have to be a very lucky man to win a World title now, there aren't any Lightweights that could get one of the titles that wouldn't beat Khan.

joepenguin

plasmaguy wrote: »

What's the point of being world champ if you have to avoid certain fighters and pick and choose who you fight.

I could be wrong but don't you have to have compulsorary fights when fighting for the world championships, so you can't avoid the likes of Breidis forever and Rubio above everyone knows that.

Warren wants to make money, Rubio and Khan want to be taken seriously and earn respect in the boxing world and to do that you have to fight and maybe lose against the likes of Prescott.

Sure you can make millions in boxing with the right promotion and avoiding serious fighters, as Nassar Hamad did, but I don't think Khan wants that.

I totally agree about being champ and having to choose your fights. Like everyone else I would love to see one world body etc etc.
Im just making the point that with the way boxing is Khan is well capable of picking up a vacant/interim belt or bide his time and wait forn oppurtunity for a beatable world champ to come along.
He what...21 now? he has at least 10 years for this to happen and IMO will hold a portion of the world title at 135 and 140 if not 147 as well at some stage down the line.
I cant see him ruling a division though.
Cant really comment on Hameds opponents as i dont know much about them apart from mccullough and barrera

Big Ears

joepenguin wrote: »

I totally agree about being champ and having to choose your fights. Like everyone else I would love to see one world body etc etc.
Im just making the point that with the way boxing is Khan is well capable of picking up a vacant/interim belt or bide his time and wait forn oppurtunity for a beatable world champ to come along.
He what...21 now? he has at least 10 years for this to happen and IMO will hold a portion of the world title at 135 and 140 if not 147 as well at some stage down the line.
I cant see him ruling a division though.
Cant really comment on Hameds opponents as i dont know much about them apart from mccullough and barrera

Usually even if you're lucky you have to beat a top 30 fighter to get an interim belt or vacant title and I don't think Khan is capable of that.

I don't see how you think he'll win a World belt up at Welterweight in the future either, even if he does have a long way left in his career.

The truth is Warren kept Khan away from British title fights and mandatory defences of his Commonwealth title because he probably would of lost.

The gap between the better British and Commonwealth level and World level is absolutely massive, and I'm not sure if Khan will ever bridge it.

At the moment I wouldn't fancy him against the British or European champions(whoever wins between Thaxton and Melero Diaz), the likes of Martin Gethin and Derrick 'Smoke' Gainer is about the extent of what Khan beats at the moment.

joepenguin

Well at the moment he hasnt a chance at lightweight but down the line when JMM,Pacman etc are all out of the division and 3 belts arent been held by one fighter I see him getting one of the big4. For instance the time he fought that danish guy who was ranked #1 or #2 by the wbo. Thats pretty close to getting your hands on an interim belt at least. I feel he can win light welterweight belt at 140 handy enough down the line. 147 is pushing it but somewhere near the end of his career Im thinking.
Basically at any given time there is going to be 3-8 world titles up for grabs in each division

linear(possibly consisting of the ring and/or IBO)
wba
wbo
wbc
ibf
wba regular
wbc interim
wbo interim

I figure that in the next 10 years there is going to be an oppurtunity in each division for Khan to grab one of those belts. Or it can be arranged that Amir is in line for the WBO proper but the champ has other plans, so Khan puts in for the interim and someone like that Danish guy is ranked in the top 2 again.

Dont get me wrong, I feel that Khan has the same dillema at British level as he does world, but surely with the right timing he can pick up one of those belts in at least 2 divisions.

megadodge

Boxing at the end of the day is about being able to give a big punch and take a big punch

Really ??
So speed, stamina, strength, timing, reflexes, skill, defence, etc. etc. don't come into it.

I agree that you have to be able to take a big punch to survive at top level, but this notion that without a big punch you'll never make it is the most regularly spouted myth about boxing doing the rounds. There are far too many examples to name of world champions who didn't have a big punch but dominated their division.

Sure you can make millions in boxing with the right promotion and avoiding serious fighters, as Nassar Hamad did, but I don't think Khan wants that.

Who ??
So, you expect us to believe you have an in-depth knowledge of one of the best known boxers of recent years' opponents when you don't even know his name ?????

For your information, he defeated ALL the other belt holders at his weight division - meaning he was undisputed/linear champ. Just because the alphabet boys decided to do their stripping routine doesn't change that !

In relation to Khan, I've always liked him but have stated here previously that there certainly is a question mark over his chin. The fact that Prescott is a banger means we're still not sure is his chin atrocious, or just middling (at best) and he got nailed by shots that could well have poleaxed most lightweights. Time will tell, but...

nacho libre

megadodge wrote: »

Really ??
So speed, stamina, strength, timing, reflexes, skill, defence, etc. etc. don't come into it.

I agree that you have to be able to take a big punch to survive at top level, but this notion that without a big punch you'll never make it is the most regularly spouted myth about boxing doing the rounds. There are far too many examples to name of world champions who didn't have a big punch but dominated their division.



Who ??
So, you expect us to believe you have an in-depth knowledge of one of the best known boxers of recent years' opponents when you don't even know his name ?????

For your information, he defeated ALL the other belt holders at his weight division - meaning he was undisputed/linear champ. Just because the alphabet boys decided to do their stripping routine doesn't change that !

In relation to Khan, I've always liked him but have stated here previously that there certainly is a question mark over his chin. The fact that Prescott is a banger means we're still not sure is his chin atrocious, or just middling (at best) and he got nailed by shots that could well have poleaxed most lightweights. Time will tell, but...

I think we found out his chin was rather weak against the light-hitting Limond.
You're right about boxers not needing a big punch to be successful. Just look at Malignaggi as a current good example of this.

plasmaguy

megadodge wrote: »

Really ??
So speed, stamina, strength, timing, reflexes, skill, defence, etc. etc. don't come into it.

I agree that you have to be able to take a big punch to survive at top level, but this notion that without a big punch you'll never make it is the most regularly spouted myth about boxing doing the rounds. There are far too many examples to name of world champions who didn't have a big punch but dominated their division.



Who ??
So, you expect us to believe you have an in-depth knowledge of one of the best known boxers of recent years' opponents when you don't even know his name ?????

For your information, he defeated ALL the other belt holders at his weight division - meaning he was undisputed/linear champ. Just because the alphabet boys decided to do their stripping routine doesn't change that !

In relation to Khan, I've always liked him but have stated here previously that there certainly is a question mark over his chin. The fact that Prescott is a banger means we're still not sure is his chin atrocious, or just middling (at best) and he got nailed by shots that could well have poleaxed most lightweights. Time will tell, but...

I never said I have a brillant knowledge of boxing....and why the aggressive attitude?? What did I do to you to make you get into such a hissy fit?

Yeh I vaguely remember his name because no-one remembers a loser like that after a few years, only the genuine champs...obviously he was a hero of yours though when you can remember his name....

What I remember is genuine world champions not hyped up British posers who once they meet a good South American or Mexican get the sh*t knocked out of them. In my eyes those types of people aren't worth remembering...

If Amir Khan loses his next fight, in five years people will be saying do you remember that guy, what was his name, Amir something or other, you know, the guy with all the hype but no chin.

You should learn to distunguish between hype and genuine talent, usually they are mutually exclusive...

unhyped fighters, Bredis Prescott, Joe Calzage, Floyd Patterson, etc.

hyped fighters Bernard Dunne, Amir Khan, Hamed, etc...

Yeh and sorry I dont remember all their names, I like boxing but I also have interests in other sports as well...

plasmaguy

megadodge wrote: »

Really ??
So speed, stamina, strength, timing, reflexes, skill, defence, etc. etc. don't come into it.

I agree that you have to be able to take a big punch to survive at top level, but this notion that without a big punch you'll never make it is the most regularly spouted myth about boxing doing the rounds. There are far too many examples to name of world champions who didn't have a big punch but dominated their division.



Who ??
So, you expect us to believe you have an in-depth knowledge of one of the best known boxers of recent years' opponents when you don't even know his name ?????

For your information, he defeated ALL the other belt holders at his weight division - meaning he was undisputed/linear champ. Just because the alphabet boys decided to do their stripping routine doesn't change that !

In relation to Khan, I've always liked him but have stated here previously that there certainly is a question mark over his chin. The fact that Prescott is a banger means we're still not sure is his chin atrocious, or just middling (at best) and he got nailed by shots that could well have poleaxed most lightweights. Time will tell, but...

You can only judge a fighter by the quality of his oppostion right? Khan fought some good boxers and even struggled for periods against them.

Yes he has speed, stamina, no strength in his chin, suspect defence as we saw...

As for the rest no point having all those if you get knocked out by a big punch, I think you will agree on that...

Khan has got hammered by big punches in several of his fights and many of those weren't even big punchers and shows he cannot take a big punch...if he can't cope at this stage in his career what hope against the Mexicans, Americans and South American heavy hitters...

Like I say to survive agasint the likes of Prescott and his ilk, and Rubio knew this as well, you need to take a big punch and give a big punch...Khan couldn't take a big punch, when he sorts that out, then you can talk about him being world champ.

joepenguin

At the end of the day Hamed only lost to a legend, Macro Antonio Barerra. He was a genuine talent, and its an awful pity he didnt carry on after that as normal.
Calzaghe has a fair bit of hype surrounding him. and as for being world champ and not having awesome KO power, off the top of my head there Paulie Mallignaggi, Wayne McCullough, Calzaghe to some extent. Cant think of anymore but Im sure there are loads.

cowzerp

plasmaguy wrote: »

You should learn to distunguish between hype and genuine talent, usually they are mutually exclusive...

unhyped fighters, Bredis Prescott, Joe Calzage, Floyd Patterson, etc.

hyped fighters Bernard Dunne, Amir Khan, Hamed, etc...

Prescott is a nobody as things stand, so he beat 1 decent opponent thats why he's not hyped!

calzaghe, is highly over hyped and patterson was hyped too but deserved it, maybe you dont know who's hyped or not.

megadodge

Where do I start ?

Yeh I vaguely remember his name...

No you don't !

because no-one remembers a loser like that after a few years, only the genuine champs

1. An awful, awful lot of people (including non-boxing fans) remember him !! It's not even that long ago he was dominating the TV screens. He was HUGE in this part of the world and was also massively well known in the US. Not remembering his name is a reflection on you, not him.
2. So, someone who was effectively undisputed world champion for FIVE YEARS, lost only once - to an all-time great - and made c. £50million is a "loser" ?????
3. "Genuine champ" = what exactly ? Obviously someone who fought and beat 9 out of 10 'world' champions and beat all the other belt-holders in his division and reigned for FIVE YEARS doesn't count ? I'm intrigued to find out your criteria on this one, especially when you mention Floyd Patterson, one of the worst and most protected heavyweight champions in history as being a "genuine talent".

You should learn to distunguish between hype and genuine talent, usually they are mutually exclusive...
unhyped fighters, Bredis Prescott, Joe Calzage, Floyd Patterson, etc.

"Mutually exclusive" are they ?
The following boxers are some of the most hyped in history - Muhammad Ali, Sugar Ray Leonard, Sugar Ray Robinson, Joe Louis, Oscar De La Hoya.... notice a trend there ? I'll let you figure it out.

Yeh and sorry I dont remember all their names, I like boxing but I also have interests in other sports as well...

?????????????? I thought it was only boxing that gave you brain damage ??

As for the rest no point having all those if you get knocked out by a big punch, I think you will agree on that...

Agreed.

Like I say to survive agasint the likes of Prescott and his ilk, and Rubio knew this as well, you need to take a big punch and give a big punch...

Strongly disagree. Some better known examples (there are numerous more) - Harry Greb, Willie Pep, Muhammad Ali, Pernell Whittaker, Ivan Calderon. All great boxers but most definitely not big punchers.

Khan couldn't take a big punch, when he sorts that out..

I agree he can't take a big punch, I think he can't even take a reasonably hard punch and unfortunately there's nothing he can do about it. Pity.

Big Ears

megadodge while I agree with the rest of that post I think it's very harsh(and wrong) to say Patterson was one of the worst heavyweight champs. Protected ?, yes very much so but he was an excellant fighter who normally overcame much bigger men.

By right he should have been fighting at Light-Heavyweight, but he used his incredible hand speed and foot speed advantage aswell as his power to get the job done.

His was pretty chinny, but had decent powers of recovery and hence was dropped a lot.

When you consider that the likes of primo Carnera, James Braddock and Tommy Burns have been champion, Patterson is nowhere near one of the worst. He'd handle guys like that easily.

The first Olympic gold medal winner to win a World title, the youngest undisputed heavyweight champion ever(to this day), the first man to ever regain the World heavyweight title, and very unlucky not to have been the first man to hold a version of the World title 3 times.

But that's just his resume, sure he didn't use the peek-a-boo style nearly as good as Tyson, sure he wasn't as physically gifted as someone like Tyson either. But he was an excellent fighter, who was still a top 10 guy in Ali's era despite being declined. Which for me says it all.

megadodge

Sorry Big Ears, but I'm standing by my opinion on Patterson.

Yes, he was really a light-heavy, but that's probably what made him so vulnerable at heavy and it's as a heavy I'm judging him.

He won the title off an absolutely ancient Archie Moore (another middle/light-heavy), defended against the ordinary Tommy Jackson, then Pete Rademacher who was making his debut, then the non-punching Roy Harris, who, while he had an undefeated record really had beaten nobody of note, then the very, very ordinary Brian London, then got hammered by a man whose entire reputation is based on that very hammering - Ingemar Johansson. He beat him in two returns, then defeated the very, very average Tom McNeely who had fought absolutely nobody at that stage. After that the obliterations at the hands of Liston.

By anybody's standards that is a poor reign(s). Yes, Carnera, Braddock and Burns were poor champions, but Floyd isn't a whole lot better in my eyes.

walshb

Floyd was one of the weaker lineal heavyweight champs. He still was a great fighter; just not a great great champ IMO.

OrthoD2

ODD-JOB wrote: »

Rubio is given the shove , and the blame for Khans last debacle.
I'd say oliver Harrison is still laughing !

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/more_sport/article4791181.ece

Last chance saloon , as Khan gets his 4th trainer in 4 months !! He certainly cant blame Freddie Roach , should he fall at the next hurdle.

I guess Prescott got fired too then.

plasmaguy

megadodge wrote: »

Where do I start ?



No you don't !



1. An awful, awful lot of people (including non-boxing fans) remember him !! It's not even that long ago he was dominating the TV screens. He was HUGE in this part of the world and was also massively well known in the US. Not remembering his name is a reflection on you, not him.
2. So, someone who was effectively undisputed world champion for FIVE YEARS, lost only once - to an all-time great - and made c. £50million is a "loser" ?????
3. "Genuine champ" = what exactly ? Obviously someone who fought and beat 9 out of 10 'world' champions and beat all the other belt-holders in his division and reigned for FIVE YEARS doesn't count ? I'm intrigued to find out your criteria on this one, especially when you mention Floyd Patterson, one of the worst and most protected heavyweight champions in history as being a "genuine talent".



"Mutually exclusive" are they ?
The following boxers are some of the most hyped in history - Muhammad Ali, Sugar Ray Leonard, Sugar Ray Robinson, Joe Louis, Oscar De La Hoya.... notice a trend there ? I'll let you figure it out.



?????????????? I thought it was only boxing that gave you brain damage ??



Agreed.



Strongly disagree. Some better known examples (there are numerous more) - Harry Greb, Willie Pep, Muhammad Ali, Pernell Whittaker, Ivan Calderon. All great boxers but most definitely not big punchers.



I agree he can't take a big punch, I think he can't even take a reasonably hard punch and unfortunately there's nothing he can do about it. Pity.

At the risk of getting myself banned from this forum, which is probably going to happen anyways, I must say you are one pedantic so and so.

So I get a few letters of a guys name wrong, big deal! Is that what you have gone into a tantrum about, that I vaguely remember a boxer who hasn't fought and won in 5 years. A lot of water has gone under the bridge in the meantime, and yeh like I say I take an interest in and play a lot of sports, and I would say I know a lot more about many more sports than you do...but I'm not one for pedantic arguments, I have far far more important things to worry about and so should you, than a few letters of a guys name...by the sounds of it you have a shrine to the guy at home!

I suppose I will have to leave this thread to ya so, given your aggressive responses to my opinion and your immature responses at that...I have given my own opinion on a few things such as the fact that if Khan cant take a big punch he has no real prospect of making it to the top of the tree, just like Bernard Dunne, Audley Harrison, etc.

As for your point about hype, who was more hyped, Hatton or Mayweather? Who had more hype about them Hopkins or Calzage? Khan or Prescott? Ali or Foreman, Tyson or McBride?...Many of the hyped fighters promise much and usually end up on the canvas...

Anyways buddy you win, you can have the thread and the boxing forum, because like I said I dont do pedantic arguments with fools...

walshb

plasmaguy wrote: »

At the risk of getting myself banned from this forum, which is probably going to happen anyways, I must say you are one pedantic so and so.

So I get a few letters of a guys name wrong, big deal! Is that what you have gone into a tantrum about, that I vaguely remember a boxer who hasn't fought and won in 5 years. A lot of water has gone under the bridge in the meantime, and yeh like I say I take an interest in and play a lot of sports, and I would say I know a lot more about many more sports than you do...but I'm not one for pedantic arguments, I have far far more important things to worry about and so should you, than a few letters of a guys name...by the sounds of it you have a shrine to the guy at home!

I suppose I will have to leave this thread to ya so, given your aggressive responses to my opinion and your immature responses at that...I have given my own opinion on a few things such as the fact that if Khan cant take a big punch he has no real prospect of making it to the top of the tree, just like Bernard Dunne, Audley Harrison, etc.

As for your point about hype, who was more hyped, Hatton or Mayweather? Who had more hype about them Hopkins or Calzage? Khan or Prescott? Ali or Foreman, Tyson or McBride?...Many of the hyped fighters promise much and usually end up on the canvas...

Anyways buddy you win, you can have the thread and the boxing forum, because like I said I dont do pedantic arguments with fools...

You only get banned on this forum if you are completely out of order. A disagreement here and there never hurt anyone; just try to keep it civil:)

megadodge

Ok Plasma, looking back on it, maybe I did come across overly aggressive, but it stems from an ongoing thing on boxing forums where if people don't like a boxer's personality they denigrate his achievments mainly by quoting the classic lines "he fought nobody" or "media creation / hype merchant". When faced with hard facts they then get fiercely defensive, which invariably ends up with abuse being needlessly fired around. I'm just fed up of all that.

My apologies on that score.

In relation to other sports, it's very hard to prove anything on an internet forum, but I'm happy to believe that my all-round knowledge of sports can hold it's own with most. I won't even go into my own personal achievments.

ODD-JOB

megadodge wrote: »

Ok Plasma, looking back on it, maybe I did come across overly aggressive,

My apologies on that score.

Fair play Mega D ,....... you dont often see that in a boxing forum !!

Anyway ,...... sorry to go off topic a bit here , but it looks like Khan's next fight may be against martin Gethin.....
who?....the guy who beat John Fewkes there a few weeks ago.

The other whisper is that Warren is going to try and make it PPV again !!!!
I dont know whether this is derived from a contractual issue or something , but it just dosent make sense to me.
He'll do more damage by limiting Khan's already shallow fanbase ! and piling more negative publicity towards Warren and any event associated with FW!

He was said to have needed 250,000 PPV hits to make it worthwhile last fight ,.......Has anybody any idea how many viewers paid the PPV fee ?

Big Ears

ODD-JOB wrote: »

He was said to have needed 250,000 PPV hits to make it worthwhile last fight ,.......Has anybody any idea how many viewers paid the PPV fee ?

The word going round is 49,000, and to be honest I'd believe it.

ODD-JOB

Hmmmm... Ive read a few places that Warren is aiming for PPV subscription for Khan's next fight too ! what about that !

joepenguin

Warren said that on December 6th there will be at least 2 world title fights as well as Khan. Thats fair enough, dont mind if he is on the undercard of a ppv event as long as the rest of it is ppv worthy.
Wnder who it will be. Nicky Cook defending his title and Enzo Mac for the vacant WBO?

http://www.frankwarren.tv/drill/News/Articles/2008/10/02/world-title-fights-lined-up.html

Big Ears

joepenguin wrote: »

Warren said that on December 6th there will be at least 2 world title fights as well as Khan. Thats fair enough, dont mind if he is on the undercard of a ppv event as long as the rest of it is ppv worthy.
Wnder who it will be. Nicky Cook defending his title and Enzo Mac for the vacant WBO?

http://www.frankwarren.tv/drill/News/Articles/2008/10/02/world-title-fights-lined-up.html

I reckon:
Enzo Maccarinelli v Jonathon Banks
Amir Khan v Martin Gethin
Nicky Cook v Ricky Burns
prospect v overmatched opponent
prospect v overmatched opponent
prospect v overmatched opponent
prospect v overmatched opponent
prospect v overmatched opponent
prospect v overmatched opponent

They might be able to get 59,000 buys for that :rolleyes:

joepenguin

You're probably right... And none of that is ppv worthy.

So on the original topic it seems that Amir will go train with Roach for 6 weeks. Roach said that Khan needs to lose some muscle off his upper body and stick it on his legs. He needs to work on exploseive power and should have kept Prescott at the end of his jab for quite a while last month.
http://www.secondsout.com/reports/index.cfm?ccs=529&cs=32322

jordano

ODD-JOB wrote: »

Although I've always rooted for him to loose , You got to feel for Amir khan. I mean , He's having a personal nightmare deep inside. He's got gloating critics , haters and negative press balanced against him at the moment.
he'll feel the average man on the street whispering in his presence.
As WalshB was saying , he got a bit of courage facing all this head on. He carried the massive weight of expectation on his shoulders more than any other in his country.

Its a big step for a young lad to attend the wild card amongst these serious talents and prospects. Its going to be very uncomfortable for him at first you'd imagine.

Im not slating Dunne here , but Bernard Dunne more or less disappeared until all blew over.....it was ages before he then crept back quietly and began building his credibility back slowly but solidly.

Amir's tackling it pretty much head-on here , and got something on for Dec 6th i believe. So much pressure for a lad like him .

Now I've heard it all! I can't believe people on this forum are praising Khan's courage and balls for getting back in the ring after his defeat yet slating (I know you put in your, "I'm not slating Dunne, but", disclaimer before your statement, but that's exactly what you are doing) Bernard Dunne for the way he handled his defeat!

A few important differences between the two: the first words out of Khan's camps mouths were, "blame the trainer!". The poor guy get's sacked for Khan's shortcomings no questions asked!
When Bernard lost to Martinez he said, "No excuses", apologised to his fans and took his defeat with dignity. He did not point the finger, he owned up and vowed to go back to the drawing board and come back better which he did.
Just because Bernard took longer to get back in the ring does not make him any less courageous than Khan. Different people react to a defeat in different ways. If Bernard had come back too soon, you'd all slate him for that too!
This thread isn't even about Dunne but you manage to get a dig in there all the same!

walshb

I award courage to any man who steps thru the ropes after suffering a brutal KO loss. Khan and Dunne deserve respect in this sense.

I do however believe that Khan's camp are to blame for matching him with a deadly KO artist so soon!

That's not to say that eventually Khan would NOT hhave been KO'd. I just think it was a dangerous fight 2-3 fights too early!

jordano

walshb wrote: »

I award courage to any man who steps thru the ropes after suffering a brutal KO loss. Khan and Dunne deserve respect in this sense.

I do however believe that Khan's camp are to blame for matching him with a deadly KO artist so soon!

That's not to say that eventually Khan would NOT hhave been KO'd. I just think it was a dangerous fight 2-3 fights too early!

I think Khan's has excellent skills and is another fighter, like Dunne, who if matched correctly could go far but what I don't get is how people are willing to give him credit and feel sorry for him when all Bernard gets is ridicule!

I must say though Khan looked like he was bricking it when he got into the ring with Prescott! That KO did not suprise me.

walshb

jordano wrote: »

I think Khan's has excellent skills and is another fighter, like Dunne, who if matched correctly could go far but what I don't get is how people are willing to give him credit and feel sorry for him when all Bernard gets is ridicule!

I must say though Khan looked like he was bricking it when he got into the ring with Prescott! That KO did not suprise me.

Jordano, I am not fully with you. Bernard ridiculed for being KO'd?
No, criticised that he was exposed and criticised for not being 'all that,' YES.
There is a distinct difference. Khan too has been criticised for getting 'exposed.'

Both deserve credit for coming back. But that's as far as the credit goes with Bernard and if Khan does what Bernard has for the past 3 fights, (Looked very ordinary V tomato cans) he too deserves to be criticised. We are still awaiting Khans future showings.

Look, Khan is still not 22 yet. Bernard is 28, almost 29?

Everything has to be considered here.

If Khan fights three tomato cans in his next three bouts, he may well get criticised; but he still has TIME firmly on his side. Bernard does NOT!

alanceltic

On the subject on Khan and his upcoming bout with our own Oisin Fagan and in the words of Kevin Keegan.....

I WOULD LOVE IT IF WE BEAT THEM, LOVE IT LOVE IT LOVE IT :D:D

T-K-O

alanceltic wrote: »

On the subject on Khan and his upcoming bout with our own Oisin Fagan and in the words of Kevin Keegan.....

I WOULD LOVE IT IF WE BEAT THEM, LOVE IT LOVE IT LOVE IT :D:D

I think they are taking a risk on Fagan - Lets hope he can do it.