Sharpening knifes

OgreSwamp

Hi.
I have Japanese chef knife (Hattori) and I want to sharp it. I'll order "wet stones" to do that, but first time I want to ask professional to sharp my knife. Could you please tell me where I can do that? I'm sure that process if different compare with european knives sharpening.
Thanks.

rockbeer

Love Japanese knives myself. Don't know where you'll find a professional you could trust with a quality Japanese blade - much better to learn to do it yourself on a cheap knife.

Everything you could ever want to know about knife sharpening is here

And here's some information on waterstones.

Oh yes, and here's a selection of good value waterstones.

OgreSwamp

rockbeer wrote: »

Don't know where you'll find a professional you could trust with a quality Japanese blade - much better to learn to do it yourself on a cheap knife.

thanks for your links. I'll learn how to do it yourself, but it will be much better if I can find somebody to show I've read some articles, I found place where I'll buy wetstones, but I still afraid to "kill" my knife...

rockbeer

OgreSwamp wrote: »

thanks for your links. I'll learn how to do it yourself, but it will be much better if I can find somebody to show I've read some articles, I found place where I'll buy wetstones, but I still afraid to "kill" my knife...

Sure you've got to practice and learn on a cheap knife... but how much worse will you feel if a 'professional' kills your knife for you? Believe me, just because someone has a grindstone doesn't make them a knife sharpener. Especially with Japanese knives.

It's not that difficult - you just have to have some patience and try not to go too fast. Have you looked at this guide?

You don't say which Hattori you have. Fantastic knives. What metal? Is it VG10? Single or double bevel?

OgreSwamp

I've read this guide:
http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/HowToSharpen.html

Actually that is an Internet shop where I bought my knife and where I'll buy wet stones.
Thanks for links again.

About cheap knife. I suppose that I have to lear how to sharp with japanese knife coz it has same angle as mine. Or it doesn't matter?

OgreSwamp

On Tojiro's website they show how to maintain knife with steel bar. But in some sources I've read that it isn't good for japanese knives. What do U think about it?

Magic Monkey

OP, you could do worse than to walk into a Japanese restaurant in your locality and ask one of the japanese chefs there, assuming they are using japanese style knifes and can sharpen them proficiently. Good luck!

monty_python

rockbeer wrote: »

Love Japanese knives myself. Don't know where you'll find a professional you could trust with a quality Japanese blade

there is no differance is sharpening jap knifes and anyother knife. the technique is the same for all knifes. i work with a full set of global knifes and i keep them sharp with a diamond steel. the same and other chefs do with german knifes. the only differance is that globals are easier to sharppen and lose the edge faster. the only way to learn is trail and error. even when shown you still wont be able to do it perfect.

rockbeer

monty_python wrote: »

there is no differance is sharpening jap knifes and anyother knife. the technique is the same for all knifes.

Yes and no... many Japanese knives have different blade profiles to those of western knives (e.g. many japanese blades are chisel profiled (flat on one side) while virtually all western blades are v-shaped). The technique is essentially the same, but if the sharpener doesn't know what they're doing they might well re-profile the blade to a western pattern and destroy the knife's essential quality.

monty_python wrote: »

i work with a full set of global knifes and i keep them sharp with a diamond steel. the same and other chefs do with german knifes.

Diamond steels are great when used properly, but no substitute for a going over on the water stones every so often.

monty_python wrote: »

the only differance is that globals are easier to sharppen and lose the edge faster.

Hate to say this, but imho Globals are essentially overpriced western knives wearing a thin Japanese disguise. A quality Japanese knife like the OP's Hattori will typically be 61+ HRC and keep its edge forever. Globals are made from softer CHROMOVA 18 steel, rated around 56-58 HRC which is very soft by Japanese standards and not much better than a Henckel or Wusthof. Have a look at this very interesting and balanced post about knives, knife steel, and where Globals fall in the overall scheme of things.

monty_python wrote: »

the only way to learn is trail and error. even when shown you still wont be able to do it perfect.

qft

monty_python

if you use a steel properly and often enough you should never have to use a stone. and in my, and every other professional i have spoke too, opion globals, i have seen wusthofs get lose at the handle after 10+ years of every day use but the globals last for ever. also the hand discomfort comes from the way you hold them. i used to find them "uncomfortable but now i dont. long live the globals

p.s what does qft mean??

rockbeer

monty_python wrote: »

if you use a steel properly and often enough you should never have to use a stone.

Can't agree with this. They do two completely different jobs. A steel straightens the roll-over at the very tip of the blade but only removes a minimal amount of metal from the blade. Over time the edge of the blade becomes flattened, mainly by repeated impact on the board,and of course chopping through stuff it shouldn't like bone or whatever. The best way to restore a razor edge to the flattened edge is with stones: even with regular steeling a stone work-over a few times a year is necessary if you want to maintain a really sharp edge.

monty_python wrote: »

and in my, and every other professional i have spoke too, opion globals, i have seen wusthofs get lose at the handle after 10+ years of every day use but the globals last for ever. long live the globals

What use is the handle lasting for ever if, as you admit yourself, it can't keep an edge?

Are you saying "every professional" endorses Globals? Sounds like you're severely in need of validation for your knife choice.


qft = quoted for truth!

monty_python

no knife keeps its edge foreve. but with a global its very easy to resotre it with a decent diamond steel.much easier than other knifes, no need for a stone. i have been using globals (chopper, boner, filleter, office knife, etc,) for 5 years now and i find them great. thats my personal opion and that of many many other chefs i have worked with and spoken to. Mr. ramsay himself uses them

Phoenix3

Those Catering supply people on Pearse Street(can't think of the name)have a service where they will put a new edge on your knife!Not quite sure what it means but I got the impression that if you made a mess of your sharpening skills they will rectify same.

They sell a sharpening wheel where you run your knife along 2 small wheels,Seems to be effective for me,It's only a small plastic device which when you see it is expensive at about €30 but works for me who cannot master a sharpening steel.

Would it be a bit suspicious looking if we organised a meeting in the corner of a pub to discuss our sharpening skills and brought all our knife collections with us to display?

Alun

Phoenix3 wrote: »

Those Catering supply people on Pearse Street(can't think of the name)have a service where they will put a new edge on your knife!Not quite sure what it means but I got the impression that if you made a mess of your sharpening skills they will rectify same.

They sell a sharpening wheel where you run your knife along 2 small wheels,Seems to be effective for me,It's only a small plastic device which when you see it is expensive at about €30 but works for me who cannot master a sharpening steel.

Would it be a bit suspicious looking if we organised a meeting in the corner of a pub to discuss our sharpening skills and brought all our knife collections with us to display?

Sweeney O'Rourkes is who you're thinking of, i think?

rockbeer

Phoenix3 wrote: »

They sell a sharpening wheel where you run your knife along 2 small wheels,Seems to be effective for me,It's only a small plastic device which when you see it is expensive at about €30 but works for me who cannot master a sharpening steel.

Is it one of these?

Phoenix3 wrote: »

Would it be a bit suspicious looking if we organised a meeting in the corner of a pub to discuss our sharpening skills and brought all our knife collections with us to display?

I can see it now... "That's not a knife..."

Musashi

They sell a sharpening wheel where you run your knife along 2 small wheels,

No! Not on any knife and never ever on a Hattori please! A Sharpmaker from Spyderco will do a decent job with very little practice needed, just use more strokes than they recommend and keep a light touch!

All sharpening basically goes like this. Go with the coarsest ceramic/stone/diamond needed until your scratch pattern is even on both sides and your bevels are meeting, then progress through your grits erasing all the marks of the previous grit. Continue up to polishing on stones and then strop for scary neck shiver sharp! This guy is very good indeed!

Sure you've got to practice and learn on a cheap knife... but how much worse will you feel if a 'professional' kills your knife for you? Believe me, just because someone has a grindstone doesn't make them a knife sharpener. Especially with Japanese knives.

It's not that difficult - you just have to have some patience and try not to go too fast.

I have spent a lot of time and a few quid on learning to sharpen so if you've any questions drop me a PM. I do sharpen my own knives (Watanabe blades Santoku, Nakiri, Sashimi, Deba and Mukimono) and a Ross Lewis set we got with tokens. Mike Stewart of Bark River knives makes a good point on western knives. He says that most of them are softer than Japanese knives so the edge holding isn't going to be radically different on a cheap set through Sabatiers up to Wusthoffs etc. You will sharpen and steel (or strop) as much with either knife, so get a decent cheap set or splash out on some good hard Japanese knives.

By splash out I guess a Hattori hand made by Mr. Hattori from his KD series counts! Cowry X steel clad in Damascus and standing $400 for a Petty and $940 for a 180mm Santoku counts!

I would not be over happy to tackle some one else's knife, especially one of that league! I would if they wanted me to and there was no other choice, at least I won't make a complete feck of it on a grinder as I've seen done! I am planning on getting more kit, but my bits and pieces can be seen in this thread.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=61190668#post61190668

As soon as I have the funds I am getting me an Edge Pro Professional and a set of diamond hones for it, I would be much happier then in tackling very pretty knives without marking the flats!

Would it be a bit suspicious looking if we organised a meeting in the corner of a pub to discuss our sharpening skills and brought all our knife collections with us to display?

Cool idea, my knife collection is kind of hard to round up though and might look a bit dodgy arriving to a public place! I think I have around 200 knives now? Anyways, this is where the OCD children of sharpening hang out!

http://www.knifeforums.com/forums/showforum.php?fid/48/