92% of babies diagnosed with Down Syndrome aborted (US)

The_Minister

Scientific: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10521836?dopt=AbstractPlus

Article: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/09/us/09down.html?_r=2&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

If you were told that your child had Down Syndrome, would you abort it? (If you could).

I know that this is a potentially divisive topic, but try to play nice.

Turd Ferguson

Speaking as someone who actually has an aunt with down syndrome I can honestly say I'd probably have the child...then eat it :pac:

AKfortyjimbob

I would. I cant imagine what parents of handicapped kids go through, i dont want to try it.

Jumpy

You want people to play nice and you posted it in After Hours?

Hagar

On the up side if Britain and China were to follow the US example we could be in with a shout at the next Special Olympics.

Phlann

Yes. No question.

I don't want to go into reasons though because it's an emotive subject and somebody will inevitably come in to tell us that their son or daughter or both their parents have Down's Syndrome and we're all heartless, evil, inhumane bastards.

It's a good topic, but a bad one to have to debate...

raah!

Aren't there loads of sub-categories and all that that you would have to consider? . I mean for someone who is pro-abortion anyway, and doesn't consider it to be killing anything, then it's really an irrelevant question, they are not aborting a "down syndrome child" but just a blob of cells.

But if they do think it's a child, then it's a different pile of cake. But there are so many different view points on that.

yes probably

I went to a my girlfriend's cousin's wedding back at the start of June and her cousin has Down Syndrome (not the one getting married, a different one). I'm sure some people might see it as tragic and everything, but his mother set out to ensure he had as much of a life as possible. So while the guy does need some help still he's allowed drink and enjoys life as much as he can (without being, as horribly as this sounds, too much of a burden on other people).

That's the right thing to do, imo.

littlebitdull

Yes I think I would. I think ... of course I dont actually know if I could - as far as I know (and I know I will be corrected on this ...) you cant/dont find out till fairly late in the pregnancy. So I would imagine its a much more difficult decision to make than if say you find out your pregnant and decide not to contine with it, ending things in the early stage.

KTRIC

I think its cruel to bring a child into this world knowing that its mentally or physically handicapped. Its irresponsible of the parents to so this, knowing that the child will not have a fulfilling life.

Nehaxak

Actually a pretty serious discussion/topic - After hours might not be the best place for it, too much humour in here

Myself, personally, yes I probably would if I could and if it was known at a really early stage of the fetus development (though it would ultimately be her decision as the mother not mine as the father). I generally have a problem with abortion anyway but if you could diagnose within the first maybe 8 weeks max, then, maybe... but still, I dunno. Really hard one to answer

The Master

A friend of mine has down syndrome as does his girlfriend
They had a kid and he had down syndrome to.

Turns out 2 mongs don't make a right

Honey-ec

Jeez, take it back to Humanities, seeing as it was lifted from there anyway...

raah!

The Master wrote: »

A friend of mine has down syndrome as does his girlfriend
They had a kid and he had down syndrome to.

Turns out 2 mongs don't make a right

jeez...

Jumpy

KTRIC wrote: »

I think its cruel to bring a child into this world knowing that its mentally or physically handicapped. Its irresponsible of the parents to so this, knowing that the child will not have a fulfilling life.

*cue anti-abortion zealot frothing at the mouth response from loony*

Phlann

Kind of off-topic but a brother of an acquaintance worked in a care home with a lot of adult Down's Syndromes and he said he spent about 90% of his time trying to stop them having sex with each other. I'd imagine it's like being a bouncer at the Wezz, in at least two ways.

WindSock

Who's to say the child won't have a fulfilled life? A lot of Downs Syndrome people are incredibly happy.

Epic Tissue

I would vote to abort too, most likely. Case dependent maybe.

lasorciere

KTRIC wrote: »

I think its cruel to bring a child into this world knowing that its mentally or physically handicapped. Its irresponsible of the parents to so this, knowing that the child will not have a fulfilling life.

Agree with you.

Ste.phen

WindSock wrote: »

Who's to say the child won't have a fulfilled life? A lot of Downs Syndrome people are incredibly happy.

And what about when their parents die?
I've seen several people recently in their 70s or older, minding their child, who has Downs and is in their forties, how is that fair on either of them?

The_Minister

Phlann wrote: »

Kind of off-topic but a brother of an acquaintance worked in a care home with a lot of adult Down's Syndromes and he said he spent about 90% of his time trying to stop them having sex with each other. I'd imagine it's like being a bouncer at the Wezz, in at least two ways.

:eek::eek:
I've heard what those Wesley bounchers do:eek:

KTRIC

WindSock wrote: »

Who's to say the child won't have a fulfilled life? A lot of Downs Syndrome people are incredibly happy.

I suppose thats one of the upsides to it. But the happiness only lasts for 30 - 40 years max and then the parents have to bury their child before themselves.

The Master

The Master wrote: »

A friend of mine has down syndrome as does his girlfriend
They had a kid and he had down syndrome to.

Turns out 2 mongs don't make a right

I normally don't give a shit what people say on here but that is ****ing pathethic.....

I'd honestly keep the child. It's your flesh and blood.

Phlann

The_Minister wrote: »

:eek::eek:
I've heard what those Wesley bounchers do:eek:

:eek:

That was an unintentional implication!

As far as I know he was not getting his rocks off by banging Downsers three at a time.

stovelid

The Master wrote: »

A friend of mine has down syndrome as does his girlfriend
They had a kid and he had down syndrome to.

Turns out 2 mongs don't make a right

I'd like to think I'd keep a mentally handicapped child, like your parents obviously did with you.

Phlann

AND he stole that 'two mongs' joke. Insensitive and unoriginal

Hang your head.


ps I laughed my ass off when I first saw that, think it was on F365 or something...

Darragh29

Phlann wrote: »

Kind of off-topic but a brother of an acquaintance worked in a care home with a lot of adult Down's Syndromes and he said he spent about 90% of his time trying to stop them having sex with each other. I'd imagine it's like being a bouncer at the Wezz, in at least two ways.

I heard the exact same thing from a girl I used to go out with years ago, she worked in a hospital in Dubllin for the mentally handicapped and she said the exact same thing! I couldn't believe it when she said it but she said, "they are as human as you and me you do know, why wouldn't they!?!"

Turd Ferguson

stovelid wrote: »

I'd like to think I'd keep a mentally handicapped child, like your parents obviously did with you.

Thats low...way to bring this thread down to the gutter stovelid

Darragh29

stovelid wrote: »

I'd like to think I'd keep a mentally handicapped child, like your parents obviously did with you.

That sounds just like something Frankie Boyle would say on Mock The Week!

:D:D

stovelid

Turd Ferguson wrote: »

Thats low...way to bring this thread down to the gutter stovelid

In fairness, I replaced 'Yore Ma' with 'your parents' at the last minute as a placatory gesture.

The Master

stovelid wrote: »

In fairness, I replaced 'Yore Ma' with 'your parents' at the last minute as a placatory gesture.

It would have been funnier with 'Yore Ma' tbh

Cookie_Monster

KTRIC wrote: »

I think its cruel to bring a child into this world knowing that its mentally or physically handicapped. Its irresponsible of the parents to so this, knowing that the child will not have a fulfilling life.

+1

Turd Ferguson

The Master wrote: »

It would have been funnier with 'Yore Ma' tbh

Everything is better with YORE MA

Darragh29

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

+1

The same logic would insist that we should execute elderly pensioners that are confined to bed.

The Master

Turd Ferguson wrote: »

Everything is better with YORE MA

True,

You left your watch here again

chin_grin

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

+1

What he what he said plus since it is AH this.

http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/Special-Olympics-lyrics-Stephen-Lynch/A3825EF76ADE00834825705E002BD90C

Cookie_Monster

Darragh29 wrote: »

The same logic would insist that we should execute elderly pensioners that are confined to bed.

how so?

They have served society and lived a long full life...

John Mason

Darragh29 wrote: »

The same logic would insist that we should execute elderly pensioners that are confined to bed.

yeah exactly, free up some hospital beds

KnifeWRENCH

Good question OP.

KTRIC wrote: »

I think its cruel to bring a child into this world knowing that its mentally or physically handicapped. Its irresponsible of the parents to so this, knowing that the child will not have a fulfilling life.

Yeah I agree with this. I am pro-choice anyway, so I would choose to abort it. But I obviously wouldn't be the one carrying it, so the mother would have the final decision.

(I hope to avoid this predicament by never having kids.)

Darragh29 wrote:

The same logic would insist that we should execute elderly pensioners that are confined to bed.

Tbh if I was an elderly pensioner confined to bed 24/7, I'd want to die. And I imagine a lot of people would feel the same way.
I think euthenasia should be legal in scenarios like that. But that's a different debate.

Cookie_Monster

Its also irresponsible in the sense that you are burdening both yourself and the state with unreasonable supports costs for the next 40+ years...

Darragh29

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

how so?

They have served society and lived a long full life...

Yeah, but they are not having a very fulfilled life anymore, so the same logic would say that we should put them out of their misery???

I have to say mentally handicapped people seem to be the happiest people I ever see! Seriously...

Dave!

Darragh29 wrote: »

The same logic would insist that we should execute elderly pensioners that are confined to bed.

And it starts.

I probably would have it aborted, yes.

Holsten

If I knew it was going to be a Down Syndrome then yes, I would want to have it aborted.

Darragh29

What I've often wondered on this particular topic, is does a mentally handicapped person realise that they are mentally handicapped and is the weight of their disability fully apparent to them or are they somehow shielded from this by virtue of the disability that they carry??? Do they silently think in bed at night, I'm mentally handicapped and I won't ever be able to do this, that and the other, I'll never be able to write a book or have a normal career or start a business or a family, or are thoughts like this just a million miles away from them??? Imagine if it was the former, the cross they must carry...

Glowing

This thread seems to be very male oriented ... i'd be surprised if the same proportion of females would abort a child with a disability. It's easy to say when you're a guy, "yeah get rid of it" but it's a whole different ballgame if you had to go through the abortion yourself ....

We need a poll!

KTRIC

Darragh29 wrote: »

I have to say mentally handicapped people seem to be the happiest people I ever see! Seriously...

Have you ever seen a seen a Down Syndrome person get frustrated because they can't do something that they are mentally incapable of and they know why ?

Its not a pleasant sight.

KTRIC

Darragh29 wrote: »

What I've often wondered on this particular topic, is does a mentally handicapped person realise that they are mentally handicapped and is the weight of their disability fully apparent to them or are they somehow shielded from this by virtue of the disability that they carry??? Do they silently think in bed at night, I'm mentally handicapped and I won't ever be able to do this, that and the other, I'll never be able to write a book or have a normal career or start a business or a family, or are thoughts like this just a million miles away from them??? Imagine if it was the former, the cross they must carry...

Some do

Cookie_Monster

Darragh29 wrote: »

I have to say mentally handicapped people seem to be the happiest people I ever see! Seriously...

Whats that got to do with it.

If I didn't have to work and could sit around all day doing whatever I liked while someone else picked up the bill I'd be a lot happier too.

Dudess

If I found out late-term, I don't know. If I found out early, yes I would abort. I used to feel differently about it as I felt Down's Syndrome wasn't too severe a disability in the greater scheme of things, but I know a couple whose baby was born recently and has Down's Syndrome and it's devastating for them.

Cookie_Monster

Darragh29 wrote: »

Do they silently think in bed at night, I'm mentally handicapped and I won't ever be able to do this, that and the other, I'll never be able to write a book or have a normal career or start a business or a family, or are thoughts like this just a million miles away from them??? .

Or it could be:

lalalala lala lalalalalalala lalala la la lalalalalalala....
you get the idea...