Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

Do you believe in A God?

15678911»

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    Did Martin Luther not hit upon his revelation:
    That faith alone would save someone.

    Although granted if your being a dutiful Christian your faith would involve good works.

    Well if you consult the Bible, it says you will know a tree by it's fruit. Now do you think that Jesus is literally speaking about a tree? Or is the tree a faithful person, and the fruit it's works. Faith and good works are intrinsically linked, you know a faithful person by their works. You cannot have faith without works. That's my view on it anyway.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭Zillah


    CDfm wrote: »
    Thats kind of you to speak for everybody.

    Kind of universal that is sounds like religion to me.

    Am I too close for comfort or hasnt science provided all the answers to these yet.

    Is the shared belief - it hasnt yet but it will.

    Its both perplexing and fascinating that you can make such vague and nonsensical posts with such confidence.

    Like a homeless person on coke ranting about the CIA. He's very sure of himself but damned if anyone else is following what he's on about.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    Zillah wrote: »
    Its both perplexing and fascinating that you can make such vague and nonsensical posts with such confidence.

    Like a homeless person on coke ranting about the CIA. He's very sure of himself but damned if anyone else is following what he's on about.
    I have hit a nerve.

    CIA,coke, homeless, paranoia,conspiracy theories - sounds like your scraping the bottom of the barrel

    You are starting to sound like a creationist.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,031 ✭✭✭Lockstep


    Jakkass wrote: »
    Well if you consult the Bible, it says you will know a tree by it's fruit. Now do you think that Jesus is literally speaking about a tree? Or is the tree a faithful person, and the fruit it's works. Faith and good works are intrinsically linked, you know a faithful person by their works. You cannot have faith without works. That's my view on it anyway.

    I'd agree that it's pointless to be faithful without the good works, but Luther's revelation was that it's faith alone that saves someone, not the good works also required by the church.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 256 ✭✭nij


    CDfm, you really are not making any sense whatsoever. What is this 'nerve' of Zillah's you supposedly hit upon? How does he sound like a Creationist? I doubt anybody here can follow what you're talking about. Your account is fairly new, yet you have around 700 posts. You clearly want to be heard, so please say something.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,925 ✭✭✭aidan24326


    CDfm wrote: »
    While you might think a theologan is not qualified would you consider a psychologist, philosopher qualified or an ethicest qualified? These all engage in abstract thought so at what level do you draw the line?

    I do not compare a psychologist to a theologian. One is attempting to understand something that is real, the other something which is not.
    So if you believe that religion does not deserve respect? Then how do you describe your attitude to mainstream christian religions say catholic or C of E. And Ive asked this elsewhere, benevolent, benign, ambivalent, hostile etc.

    I am not openly hostile, each to their own. However, it's not as though mainstream religion quietly goes about it's business, now is it?

    I have to say CDfm, you must have written about 20 posts in this thread so far, and I still have no idea what you're talking about, and I suspect nobody else does either.

    Jakkass wrote: »
    Agreed, he gets far too much spotlight, as do Hitchens, Dennett, and Harris also.

    Dawkins, Harris etc only get spotlight, as you put it, because they are the ones who have come out and publicly expressed their views, and are merely attempting to open up the god/religion debate to a wider audience. To that end they have been successful.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    im an atheist, thank god

    Someone said that on page one..


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,794 ✭✭✭JC 2K3


    aidan24326 wrote: »
    I have to say CDfm, you must have written about 20 posts in this thread so far, and I still have no idea what you're talking about, and I suspect nobody else does either.
    +1

    I don't disrespect you or look down on you, I just have know idea what you're trying to say....


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    Galvasean wrote: »
    Someone said that on page one..

    that means could be an agnostic or someone who wants to be friends with everyone

    or someone whos really clever or a voyeur who likes to watch



    should I post a reply "Christians are lovely people is the other fellahs ya have to be careful of" or is that too happy clappy?


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    aidan24326 wrote: »
    I do not compare a psychologist to a theologian. One is attempting to understand something that is real, the other something which is not.



    I am not openly hostile, each to their own. However, it's not as though mainstream religion quietly goes about it's business, now is it?

    I have to say CDfm, you must have written about 20 posts in this thread so far, and I still have no idea what you're talking about, and I suspect nobody else does either.

    Dawkins, Harris etc only get spotlight, as you put it, because they are the ones who have come out and publicly expressed their views, and are merely attempting to open up the god/religion debate to a wider audience. To that end they have been successful.


    But you can see why someone might think that you are hostile.

    I am not openly hostile what I am saying is that atheism and science does not provide me with all the answers and I suspect others feel the same way too.It doesnt float my boat.OK.

    To label people not rational on the baisis of that or as I would say halfwits , plonkers or to ridicule someone elses beliefs or whatever is disrespectful or just plain hostile.

    I respect others beliefs and non-beliefs as may be the case- it doesnt bother me.

    In my work in business if I dont like someone or their attitude Im very straight up -what gets me about this kind of debate is its "sophistication" which if happened on a building site would get someone a slap or a severe dressing down(using words like Gosh and silly billy).

    Because Christians are not just priests etc there are builders, mechanics, manual labourers , barmen, fishermen, carpenters (cant forget them boys) etc. They may not like what you say or how you portray them. Thats the reality - no hiding from that.

    All I can say isnt it great that Im not Bishop Of Oxford or Mr D would get no cups of tea and cream buns - dont know what I would do with the welcome mat but it would be rational and scientific.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,534 ✭✭✭SV


    oh ffs.


    God doesn't exist. No god exists.

    "god" was an idea thought up years ago for people to have something which explains something they can't.
    load of bollocks really.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,794 ✭✭✭JC 2K3


    CDfm wrote: »
    I am not openly hostile what I am saying is that atheism and science does not provide me with all the answers and I suspect others feel the same way too.
    They don't provide me with any answers either, I just accept that we don't know everything rather than believing in something that sounds nice.
    CDfm wrote: »
    To label people not rational on the baisis of that or as I would say halfwits , plonkers or to ridicule someone elses beliefs or whatever is disrespectful or just plain hostile.
    But it isn't rational. I don't mind you having an irrational belief if it makes you happy and doesn't infringe on my life in any way, and I certainly don't think of you as halfwits, plonkers or whatever, but what I do have a problem with would be labelling such beliefs as perfectly rational, because unless there's any hard evidence, they're not.

    Also, just because someone has an irrational belief, doesn't necessarily mean they're generally irrational people, and it would be a misinterpretation to think that when someone's beliefs were called irrational, that they were being called irrational on the whole. Plenty of people are perfectly rational in every area of their lives besides their beliefs.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    it is rational to me.

    What about ethics and philosophy what they are is ways to understand complicated issues using abstract thought.Whats wrong with that?

    by evidence you mean scientific evidence.

    If there wasnt abstract thought would you have the wheel.

    By that model on available evidence the world would be still percieved as flat- because people were afraid to say different.

    so to say that even Mr Ds thoughts on the subject are abstract is not such a great leap


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,151 ✭✭✭Thomas_S_Hunterson


    CDfm wrote: »
    it is rational to me.
    I think you just want to call it rational because you see 'irrational' as a pejorative term.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,794 ✭✭✭JC 2K3


    CDfm wrote: »
    it is rational to me.

    What about ethics and philosophy what they are is ways to understand complicated issues using abstract thought.Whats wrong with that?

    If there wasnt abstract thought would you have the wheel.
    Abstract thought is all well and good, but for it to be rational there has to be a logical progression from a premise to a conclusion.

    While it's not irrational to come up with a hypothesis that we might be part of a closed system created by external factors we can't conceive, this cannot be proven, so believing in a benevolent God which you can't quite define that requests you follow rules written in scripture which you have no way of proving is authentic is quite a huge leap of faith without much rationalisation behind it.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,053 ✭✭✭jimbling


    I don't believe in "God" in the usual sense.......

    I do however believe in an hermaphrodite lady who plays ping pong with a giant squid up in the stars. Whoever wins the game gets to rule the universe for a period of time.

    You see, it makes perfect sense. That's why you get absolutely horrible things happening sometimes and such wonderful amazing things other times. Hermaphrodite lady is nice and giant squidy is evil (his ink squirts cause mayhem in our otherwise glorious world)

    I see no reason to believe this any less than any other god(s) out there.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,794 ✭✭✭JC 2K3


    jimbling wrote: »
    hermaphrodite lady
    Oxymoron.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,053 ✭✭✭jimbling


    JC 2K3 wrote: »
    Oxymoron.

    lmao, didn't think someone would be so pedantic as to pick that out... but if you must know, it comes from a song by Flight of the Concords....
    When I was making up my God, the song popped into my head :D

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLJ5a6aJOb8


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭Zillah


    CDfm wrote: »
    it is rational to me.

    Ahahahaha!

    Apparently you don't even understand the meaning of the world rational. Awesome.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,467 ✭✭✭Wazdakka


    God does exist,
    But he is limited to containment within the fragile human mind,
    He has been created, He has been modified, And he will be destroyed depending on our needs.

    God does exist, But only because he doesn't.


    ie, It is my opinion that mankind seems to require belief or faith in some higher power to explain things that it does not yet understand.
    Perhaps its something pyscological, routed back to when we were children and our parents knew and understood everything we didnt.
    God, in whatever form that its believed as, is used by people to answer the questions they cannot.
    "Why are we here?"
    "What happens when we die?"
    God is even used to answer " How will we live?"

    Looking back over history God or Gods have changed drastically based on these questions.
    Rain and sunshine were required for crops to grow and the people to survive,
    so they worshipped the sun and the moon, and developed gods responsible for rainfall.

    As society developed more man needed law and order to control itself, All of a sudden belief and apeasment wasnt enough,
    you had to live your entire life by the law of god.

    God seems to be used as a stepping stone by man. Either a tool, a bridge, or an obsticle. Depending on your point of view.

    A Tool that can be used for development and progression of a society or to stunt development and establish a strong power base.

    A Bridge to be used as a "rest stop" until we posses a better understanding of what is going on around us.

    An obsticle to those who wish to expand there knowledge, or further the development of the human race at any cost.


    I feel sorry for those people out there that devote their entire life to the following of god.

    But then again i think they feel sorry for me aswell...


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    Zillah wrote: »
    Ahahahaha!

    Apparently you don't even understand the meaning of the world rational. Awesome.
    I think the word rational should be banned from this thread of course we all know its a code word for atheist

    Mr D must ave been really peaved that Ron L Hubbard beat him to it with the Church of Scientoligy - now thats a catchy title


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    JC 2K3 wrote: »
    Oxymoron.

    paradox and not so sure about tautoligy


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,794 ✭✭✭JC 2K3


    CDfm wrote: »
    paradox and not so sure about tautoligy
    It is an oxymoron.... and I'm pretty sure it is a tautology.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭Kipperhell


    If you accept that there is a god you must wonder why it would create us?

    Are we a pet?

    The basic argument of a judao/christian god is that it wants your soul so you can join it in the after life.

    Now I have an issue with the concept of the soul on a very straight forward level. If a person received a trauma to the head it can result in a radical personality change and/or memory loss. Effectively the person becomes a different person. With that considered true how does this work in to the concept of the soul? Is there now a second soul? Does the new person have to live with the sins of the original personality?

    Given that we know many traditional religions citied an incorrect fact of how the world worked in a physical sense why believe they got any of the rest correct?One solution appears to ignore the science and this is that of extremists but that just means the others are doing it to a lesser extent.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,554 ✭✭✭herobear


    i believe in the circle of life......

    The Lion King is my bible :D


    *cough* i voted no *cough*


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,467 ✭✭✭shenanigans1982


    Probably mentioned this in one of the other threads but there is no god, any rational thought will eliminate any possibility of him existing you just won't want to believe it.....however.....................if common sense is wrong and he does exist he can't be fickle enough to punish you for not believing he exists so it's win win.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,794 ✭✭✭JC 2K3


    if common sense is wrong and he does exist he can't be fickle enough to punish you for not believing he exists so it's win win.
    If common sense is wrong, you really can't predict how a god is going to act....


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 357 ✭✭Elem


    Religion is completely incorrect, but didn't Stephen Hawkins describe the universe as one massive blueprint?

    And then shouldn’t we worship the sun? It's a key factor for our survival.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    I'd agree that it's pointless to be faithful without the good works, but Luther's revelation was that it's faith alone that saves someone, not the good works also required by the church.

    It'd be my mindset that not only is it pointless to be faithful without the good works, it's impossible to be faithful. From faith comes works, as a natural response to faith in Jesus. That's what the teachings of Jesus and the Apostles seemed to alude, phrases such as the last one I used concerning the fig tree, and the phrase "a wolf in a sheeps clothing" indicating false prophets and teachers who may seem entirely to be following the Gospel but have ill intent behind it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭turgon


    I don't believe in magic,
    I don't believe in I-ching,
    I don't believe in bible,
    I don't believe in tarot,
    I don't believe in Hitler,
    I don't believe in Jesus,
    I don't believe in Kennedy,
    I don't believe in Buddha,
    I don't believe in mantra,
    I don't believe in Gita,
    I don't believe in yoga,
    I don't believe in kings,
    I don't believe in Elvis,
    I don't believe in Zimmerman,
    I don't believe in Beatles,
    I just believe in me.


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    JC 2K3 wrote: »
    Oxymoron.
    Kipperhell wrote: »
    If you accept that there is a god you must wonder why it would create us?

    Are we a pet?

    The basic argument of a judao/christian god is that it wants your soul so you can join it in the after life.

    Now I have an issue with the concept of the soul on a very straight forward level. If a person received a trauma to the head it can result in a radical personality change and/or memory loss. Effectively the person becomes a different person. With that considered true how does this work in to the concept of the soul? Is there now a second soul? Does the new person have to live with the sins of the original personality?

    Given that we know many traditional religions citied an incorrect fact of how the world worked in a physical sense why believe they got any of the rest correct?One solution appears to ignore the science and this is that of extremists but that just means the others are doing it to a lesser extent.

    You cannot nesscessarily assume god as interventionist cos that would be a pet.Of course you dont ignore science -science teachers maybe( I must make a list) -but not science.

    IF you dont believe in God -well the death penalty is the maximum penalty. Where would you stand on that. I know the Christan Churches views -but have never heard an atheists viewpoint. Is there one?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    CDfm wrote: »
    You cannot nesscessarily assume god as interventionist cos that would be a pet.Of course you dont ignore science -science teachers maybe( I must make a list) -but not science.

    IF you dont believe in God -well the death penalty is the maximum penalty. Where would you stand on that. I know the Christan Churches views -but have never heard an atheists viewpoint. Is there one?

    Although it's important to clarify that Christian views on the death penalty differ considerably between the USA and elsewhere. A minority of Christians see the death penalty as legitimate.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,794 ✭✭✭JC 2K3


    Atheism isn't a collective belief system with collective views on things. Lack of belief in a God is the only thing that unites us.

    I'd personally oppose the death penalty.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    JC 2K3 wrote: »
    Atheism isn't a collective belief system with collective views on things. Lack of belief in a God is the only thing that unites us.


    Although many seem to be of the opinion that to be an atheist you must:
    - believe in evolution unshakingly
    - hate all things religious
    - look out for #1 ie: might is right
    - eat babies


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,031 ✭✭✭Lockstep


    Jakkass wrote: »
    It'd be my mindset that not only is it pointless to be faithful without the good works, it's impossible to be faithful. From faith comes works, as a natural response to faith in Jesus. That's what the teachings of Jesus and the Apostles seemed to alude, phrases such as the last one I used concerning the fig tree, and the phrase "a wolf in a sheeps clothing" indicating false prophets and teachers who may seem entirely to be following the Gospel but have ill intent behind it.

    Thing is, people often differ on what good works is:
    Giving to the church for example.

    Luther's point was: no matter how many good works you do, itdoesn't matter. YOur faith paves the way.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,105 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tar.Aldarion


    Wazdakka wrote: »
    God does exist,
    But he is limited to containment within the fragile human mind,
    He has been created, He has been modified, And he will be destroyed depending on our needs.

    God does exist, But only because he doesn't.


    ie, It is my opinion that mankind seems to require belief or faith in some higher power to explain things that it does not yet understand.
    Perhaps its something pyscological, routed back to when we were children and our parents knew and understood everything we didnt.
    God, in whatever form that its believed as, is used by people to answer the questions they cannot.
    "Why are we here?"
    "What happens when we die?"
    God is even used to answer " How will we live?"

    Looking back over history God or Gods have changed drastically based on these questions.
    Rain and sunshine were required for crops to grow and the people to survive,
    so they worshipped the sun and the moon, and developed gods responsible for rainfall.

    As society developed more man needed law and order to control itself, All of a sudden belief and apeasment wasnt enough,
    you had to live your entire life by the law of god.

    God seems to be used as a stepping stone by man. Either a tool, a bridge, or an obsticle. Depending on your point of view.

    A Tool that can be used for development and progression of a society or to stunt development and establish a strong power base.

    A Bridge to be used as a "rest stop" until we posses a better understanding of what is going on around us.

    An obsticle to those who wish to expand there knowledge, or further the development of the human race at any cost.


    I feel sorry for those people out there that devote their entire life to the following of god.

    But then again i think they feel sorry for me aswell...
    It can be put shorter.
    People do not change to suit their god, they change their god to suit them.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭Zillah


    Jakkass wrote: »
    A minority of Christians see the death penalty as legitimate.

    Which is odd considering that the Bible specifically calls for the death penalty in numerous places.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,556 ✭✭✭✭Sir Digby Chicken Caesar


    and let's not forget, God has murdered more innocent children than Osama bin laden has hairs on his face.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,925 ✭✭✭aidan24326


    CDfm wrote: »
    IF you dont believe in God -well the death penalty is the maximum penalty. Where would you stand on that. I know the Christan Churches views -but have never heard an atheists viewpoint. Is there one?

    Personally I don't agree with the death penalty at all, not in any circumstance.
    Jakkass wrote: »
    Although it's important to clarify that Christian views on the death penalty differ considerably between the USA and elsewhere. A minority of Christians see the death penalty as legitimate.

    It's also interesting that the US states that would have the highest concentration of devout christians are also the ones who execute the most people, and have the most prisoners on death row. But seen as the bible very much condones the death penalty maybe we shouldn't be too surprised by that. Killing someone is apparently a very christian thing to do. Nice.


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    Zillah wrote: »
    Which is odd considering that the Bible specifically calls for the death penalty in numerous places.
    a simple moral question

    Churches often view it with reference to the alternatives and likely danger or harm to others -so it can be justified for the common good.

    From what I see the Catholic Church does protest where it feels it might either bring influence to bear or to point out injustice its not totally opposed to it -so there is not a total ban the position is more complex than that.

    In the USA where you have lots of different churches and denominations -the view can vary from congregation to congregation. Some churches like Baptist are autonomous and do not have a central hierarchical structure. Therfore the christian view is very diverse.

    Hannibal Lecter (fictional) would have fitted this category.

    I am against it in general but I know there are certain individuals and crimes that Id have no problem at all executing or sending to a dungeon.None -and Im mainstream.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    Has anyone read I Dont Believe In Atheists by Chris Hedges and is it anygood

    http://www.simonsays.com/content/book.cfm?tab=1&pid=615072&er=9781416567950


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,919 ✭✭✭✭Gummy Panda


    Does the God Emperior count? :pac:


    *got to stop playing DoW and reading its 40k lore.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,314 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    dlofnep wrote: »
    Neither can the Easter Bunny - But I'm sure we can agree that he doesn't exist.
    Say it ain't so! Say it ain't so! :P


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I believe there's something there but I don't believe it's in the form religions tell us about.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    the_syco wrote: »
    Say it ain't so! Say it ain't so! :P
    Im not going to give any atheists Christmas presents -so there:P


  • Advertisement
Advertisement