JOL

BERBA

Martin Jol had a better start than ramos last season & got the bullet , where is ol Jolly now ??? sitting pretty on top of the Bundesliga with 10 points from a possible 12 & completely bustin his balzzzzzz laughin at Commoli , Levy & Ramos..Villa fans were singing Jol's name last night , Levy and Comolli are bringing the ship down , big time hurting today coz our season is over before its even begun.

SuprSi

Jol had 4 points from 6 games last season, which effectively ruined our season. Ramos has 1 point from 4 but has the chance to get 7, which isn't that much bigger, and let's be honest, isn't going to happen with an away game to Pompey being the last of the 6.

I felt that Jol had to go last season, but look at him now!! Do I regret him leaving - no, circumstances, results, and performances all lead to an inevitable conclusion. Do I feel that Ramos should go? Not now as there's no point, but if things don't improve on the pitch, and I'm not even talking about getting results, but if the basics such as getting good performances down don't appear, and tactics/team selection don't work out, the management team really need to have a long and hard think about what they're going to do as we will be facing a very serious relegation battle against teams that want to be in the Premiership more than Spurs.

kmick

SuprSi wrote: »

...the management team really need to have a long and hard think about what they're going to do as we will be facing a very serious relegation battle against teams that want to be in the Premiership more than Spurs.

Spot on

rocky25

Delighted to see Martin Jol doing so well.

I thought Martin was treated very bad by Spurs.

Two 5th places in the league and good runs in the cup competitions to his name.

Then before last season even starts, Spurs go for Ramos.

No wonder the players didn't know what was going on and performed so poorly.

I hope Martin Jol wins the German League, best of luck to him.

Roll on thursday when we can put last nights nightmare behind us and kickstart our season.

therecklessone

If we're comparing records...

Jol: 3 years 0 cups
Ramos : 1 year 1 cup

First 31 league game for both managers at Spurs:

Jol: W13 D6 L11
Ramos W10 D10 L11

keane=cock

therecklessone wrote: »

If we're comparing records...

Jol: 3 years 0 cups
Ramos : 1 year 1 cup

First 31 league game for both managers at Spurs:

Jol: W13 D6 L11
Ramos W10 D10 L11

dont give me that one year one trophy crap.
ramos team won the cup on the squad that jol built. he took spurs from mid table to consecutive uefa cups and within one game of champions league(never mind the lasange gate what about pedro mendes at old trafford, we have not forgotten clattenburg!) there was only 2 players brought into the team in wembley hutton and woodgate n i dont think ramos wsas behind their signings it was more than likely comolli.

also jol inherited a mid table team n turned them into a top 5 side, ramos inherited a top 5 side and made them mid table!!!

we are taking backward steps lad can we not see that. you cant tell me pav n bent are better than bent defoe keane and berbatov!!!
come on open your eyes......

therecklessone

keane=cock wrote: »

ramos team won the cup on the squad that jol built. he took spurs from mid table to consecutive uefa cups and within one game of champions league(never mind the lasange gate what about pedro mendes at old trafford, we have not forgotten clattenburg!) there was only 2 players brought into the team in wembley hutton and woodgate n i dont think ramos wsas behind their signings it was more than likely comolli.

I defy you to show me anything that suggests Jol would have achieved this sequence of results:

Man City 0-2 Spurs [with 10 men for 70mins and Kaboul the only recognised CB]
Arsenal 1-1 Spurs
Spurs 5-1 Arsenal
Chelsea 1-2 Spurs

Jol beat a top 4 side once in his three years. Ramos bettered that in 5 months.

As for the signings, if we're to believe Ramos won the cup on the back of the squad Jol assembled, can I be first to blame Jol for Boateng, Kaboul and Taarabt? O'Hara couldn't get a game under Jol, yet was one of the best players vs Arsenal.

keane=cock

therecklessone wrote: »

As for the signings, if we're to believe Ramos won the cup on the back of the squad Jol assembled, can I be first to blame Jol for Boateng, Kaboul and Taarabt? O'Hara couldn't get a game under Jol, yet was one of the best players vs Arsenal.

you dont like me very much do you?!!!!!!:D

i agree not all managers make good signings and jol made a few bad ones but from all the stories in the papers n web sites we are led to believe he was not the only man making these decisions on players it included the dof and others ona board n a majority vote decided which players to buy. i hope that wasnt the case but!

i will give ramos time n dont believe him being sacked is the answer because we have went through too many managers in recent times and we are no nearer a serious contender for the league.

Flipz4Rollz

Lets not forget Jol was one win away from a champs league spot.
Replacing berbatov and keane with Pavulychenco and Bent was ridiculous.
Pavulychenco is a proven striker but not in a top league and they didnt gel together well last night.

keane=cock

Flipz4Rollz wrote: »

Lets not forget Jol was one win away from a champs league spot.
Replacing berbatov and keane with Pavulychenco and Bent was ridiculous.
Pavulychenco is a proven striker but not in a top league and they didnt gel together well last night.

well bent was not really given much of a chance last season with injury and with keane n berb playing so well togtether to be fair. not too sure if one tournament can justify what we spent to bring him to whl! only time will tell. i really do hope we are all wrong

twilight_singer

Lads Camoli/Levy are in charge of transfers at spurs, they are the main reason we cant get decent players. They Mickeyed around with Berbatovs transfer for so long that we didnt have time to replace him, they instist in buying "promising" young players (Kabul, Tarabaat, Boteng, BAE - all shyte) in the hope that they will make a profit on them eventually. They are the reason we are in the position we are.

On BMJ - good luck to him at Hamburg, he'llnever win the league but I hope he does well. He bottled so many crucial decisions in big games that his time was up.

keane=cock

twilight_singer wrote: »

On BMJ - good luck to him at Hamburg, he'llnever win the league but I hope he does well. He bottled so many crucial decisions in big games that his time was up.

ill agree with you here big man that he bottled a few big decisions.. notibly dropping robbo when he was below par. ramos did it when he came in and robbo was not happy but it had been comin for a long time.

i wish the big man all the best

therecklessone

keane=cock wrote: »

you dont like me very much do you?!!!!!!:D

All I ask is for rational and logical debate, I have no personal feelings towards you at all.

keane=cock wrote: »

it included the dof and others ona board n a majority vote decided which players to buy. i hope that wasnt the case but!

All transfers are decided (or at least were, rumour has it Comolli has now been sidelined) on by a four man committee comprising of the head coach, the DOF, Levy and John Alexander (club secretary) Comolli's job is to run the scouting network and present potential transfer targets to Ramos, either off his own bat or based on Ramos' requirements (need for a CB or LW for example) Ramos then chooses which one of the players Comolli has found (or none of they are all duffers) he wants, then Levy and Alexander have their input from the business side (weighing of transfer fee vs wages vs players potential vs sell on value etc etc)

If the head coach is weak willed (and I believe that was Jol's problem) then he can be easily over-ruled by Levy, which is why Martin Petrov is currently a Man City player instead of Spurs, due to his age, Madrid's asking price and his injury record.

I imagine if the head coach has a set of balls then he will insist on certain players being signed regardless of age, which is why I believe we signed an injury-prone 28 year old CB in Woodgate back in January.

Just for clarity, I believe Ramos has a much more proactive approach to the subject of transfers in than his predecessor, and I believe that has been reflected in the nature of the players we have signed. One of the criticisms I have of Jol is that he was too concerned with his public image to try standing his ground vs Levy and Comolli.

keane=cock

therecklessone wrote: »

All transfers are decided (or at least were, rumour has it Comolli has now been sidelined) on by a four man committee comprising of the head coach, the DOF, Levy and John Alexander (club secretary) Comolli's job is to run the scouting network and present potential transfer targets to Ramos, either off his own bat or based on Ramos' requirements (need for a CB or LW for example) Ramos then chooses which one of the players Comolli has found (or none of they are all duffers) he wants, then Levy and Alexander have their input from the business side (weighing of transfer fee vs wages vs players potential vs sell on value etc etc)


Just for clarity, I believe Ramos has a much more proactive approach to the subject of transfers in than his predecessor,quote]


thanks for clearing that up.
i agree jol was a bit weak n prob was lead to sign players the other members wanted(i think thats what happened with bent i dont think jol wanted him as much as the rest of the board)

its well documented that ramos is ruthless with some players. he is a strong willed man n i do think he will get the players he wants

John W

keane=cock wrote: »

we are taking backward steps lad can we not see that. you cant tell me pav n bent are better than bent Defoe Keane and Berbatov!!!
come on open your eyes......

Yes but is.......

Gomes better than Robbo?
Corluka better than Chimbonda?
Woodgate better than Gardner/Kaboul?
Bale better than Lee?
Bentley better than Lennon?
Modric better than Tanio?
Dos Santos better than Tarrabt?
Pav better than Keane (maybe, time will tell??)

On the Manger and transfer issues, I think the main player, at least in the last days of this past window was levy - Looks like Comolli scouted some good prospects, and I would say Ramos also approved them - at the end of the day, it was levy and Co who wouldn't do the deals at the time - This I believe will backfire, as I believe the prices for all the possible recruits will go up in January, especially with City in the market now!

So I think the transfer woes, lad on Levy's shoulders - I would not blame Jol or Ramos either way, and I don't think either one will out muscle Levy, he will do the deals HE wants to deal, when HE wants to do them, he is a snarly, ignorant, untrustworthy little Shiite - BUT, he holds the purse strings.:mad:

rocky25

keane=cock

John W wrote: »

Yes but is.......

Gomes better than Robbo?
Corluka better than Chimbonda?
Woodgate better than Gardner/Kaboul?
Bale better than Lee?
Bentley better than Lennon?
Modric better than Tanio?
Dos Santos better than Tarrabt?
Pav better than Keane (maybe, time will tell??)

gomes not sure, he had a great game in uefa cup last season but looked similar to robbo for villa game(makin saves he shouldnt get to and letting in goal he should be savin!)
not sold on corluka yet...
woody defo better
bale is quality
lennon is still here n playing for some reason unknown to most fans!
think modric is good but has yet to do the buisneess
same for giovani and pav. think keane was brilliant for spurs n they are some big shoes to fill. dont think bent n pav are as good as keane n berb