Need a different program.

randomperson88

Basically I need a new program to put on muscle that I can use three times a week,without it affecting my rugby training.I have used starting strength in the past and worked my lifts way up.Right now I'm 82 kg with an 85 kg bench max,120 kg squat max and about a 155 kg deadlift max.However,squatting 3 times a week aswell as deadlifitng really takes it out of my legs,and makes me perform terribly in training and matches.I'v tried changing over to WSFSB3 recently but I just notice myself becoming both skinnier and fatter at the same time,whereas I always stayed lean on the old program.I havent changed my diet at all.Any suggestions?

phene

Have a read of this http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=1474118 Hopefully it will help you decide what programme to go for.

DM-BM

Are you sure you are eating enough?

I'm doing SS aswell, and yeah squating 3 times a week can be hard, but i don't get DOMS, and can only put this down to the fact that i'm eating more than i ever have before.

Al_Fernz

randomperson88 wrote: »

Basically I need a new program to put on muscle that I can use three times a week,without it affecting my rugby training.I have used starting strength in the past and worked my lifts way up.Right now I'm 82 kg with an 85 kg bench max,120 kg squat max and about a 155 kg deadlift max.However,squatting 3 times a week aswell as deadlifitng really takes it out of my legs,and makes me perform terribly in training and matches.I'v tried changing over to WSFSB3 recently but I just notice myself becoming both skinnier and fatter at the same time,whereas I always stayed lean on the old program.I havent changed my diet at all.Any suggestions?

I know what you mean about trying to fit sports training in around squatting and deadlifting 3 times a week. It is tough and will catch up with your legs. It might be easy for somebody to recover quickly when they are just lifting weights, but when you have 2 other training sessions in a week and a match - you will not get a chance to recover properly.

Whats your interpretation of the De Franco template (i.e. what do your ME and rep days look like? How much sessions a week are you doing?)

What exactly were you doing before? Were you just doing starting strength without intense rugby training and matches? It could be a case where you added more intense work to your routine and that is the reason you are losing weight. I know you say your diet is the same, but if you're now in season it will mean that you will have to eat more to compensate for the increased workload.

randomperson88

My WSFSB3 program went like this
ME Upper Day.Work up to 3rm Bench
- Chin ups max reps
-Chest supported row and face pull superset.3 sets 10 reps
-Shrugs.3x10
-Curls 3 x10 (I really didnt feel like the shrugs and curls were doing much for me,especially after I was used to doing only big compound exercises.I still went as heavy as on everything as I could though.)
ME Lower- build up to Box Squat 3rm
-Lunges 3 x12
-Romanian Deadlift 3x 10
RE Upper- Incline Bench Max reps x3
-Lat pulldown and rear delt db raise Superset.3x10
-Medial Delt exercise 3 x10
-Shrugs and Curls superset 3 x10.

Over the last season and this Summer I had been doing Starting Strength but changed to a version of Bill Starrs 5x5 when I started stalling.Both programs were good and I was making good gains on them,but I cant keep doing them with all this fitness and rugby training I'm doing at the moment.I train for rugby tuesdays and thursdays with a match on Sundays. I want to gain weight so I'v been eating loads,nearly all clean aswell,but I seemed to just gain fat rather than muscle with the DeFranco's program.Only lifting heavy for two sets a week didn't seem to do much for me.I might try and do the Bill Starrs program again.but leave out the squats on deadlift day,and only go heavy on them once a week.

SorGan

cut it down mate, cut it down to what you feel works for you and your lifestyle.

wasabi

You've got to think about your goals here and prioritize accordingly. If your main thing is rugby and you're playing at a decent level you might do better just training for that and adding 2 short workouts each week geared towards maintaining most of your strength and staying injury-free for the season rather than adding muscle. Once you're off season hit the weights harder again.

Remember if you're not recovering properly you're going backwards, not forwards! Overreaching sucks.

Al_Fernz

randomperson88 wrote: »

My WSFSB3 program went like this
ME Upper Day.Work up to 3rm Bench
- Chin ups max reps
-Chest supported row and face pull superset.3 sets 10 reps
-Shrugs.3x10
-Curls 3 x10 (I really didnt feel like the shrugs and curls were doing much for me,especially after I was used to doing only big compound exercises.I still went as heavy as on everything as I could though.)
ME Lower- build up to Box Squat 3rm
-Lunges 3 x12
-Romanian Deadlift 3x 10
RE Upper- Incline Bench Max reps x3
-Lat pulldown and rear delt db raise Superset.3x10
-Medial Delt exercise 3 x10
-Shrugs and Curls superset 3 x10.

Over the last season and this Summer I had been doing Starting Strength but changed to a version of Bill Starrs 5x5 when I started stalling.Both programs were good and I was making good gains on them,but I cant keep doing them with all this fitness and rugby training I'm doing at the moment.I train for rugby tuesdays and thursdays with a match on Sundays. I want to gain weight so I'v been eating loads,nearly all clean aswell,but I seemed to just gain fat rather than muscle with the DeFranco's program.Only lifting heavy for two sets a week didn't seem to do much for me.I might try and do the Bill Starrs program again.but leave out the squats on deadlift day,and only go heavy on them once a week.

How long have you worked with this template - and have you cycled the lifts?

How much weight have you gained and has your strength levels been adversely effective?

blazingsaddles

Maybe if you are in season you might want to concentrate on upper body training because it will be difficult to build strenght with the amount of running you'll be doing. You may also change your squats to overhead squats, which will lessen the weight you're lifting but strenghten your core

Beau

I'm currently doing the Starting Strength workouts also but with rugby now I'm only doing 2 days a week rather than 3. Seems to be fine. I only go when my body feels properly rested and never to close before a game.

I was going to try Bill Starr once back in college but might not bother after what you said, thought it might be handier with the easier days thrown in.

randomperson88

I'v only been on that cycle for a week,did all the workouts once.Thing is,I seem to have lost muscle so rapidly on it that I'm afraid to continue using it.Last year I used the same program for about 4 weeks and whilst I did improve my max bench and squat a bit I definitely looked smaller than when doing the SS.Everybody raves about the DeFrancos programs and on paper they seem really good,maybe my body just doesn't react well to all the high rep stuff as compared to the low reps in SS or Bill Starrs.I think I will try and swap my squats for overhead or front squats and just stick with the 5X5.

Al_Fernz

randomperson88 wrote: »

I'v only been on that cycle for a week,did all the workouts once.

No way can you judge your progress after a week.

Thing is,I seem to have lost muscle so rapidly on it that I'm afraid to continue using it.

What are you basing this on? How much weight have you lost?

randomperson88

As I said I used it for over four weeks last year and wasn't too impressed with the results,hence me giving up on it quicker this time.I'm actually just basing my results on the mirror,I'v been eating loads because I need to put on another 3 or 4 kg but on this program I seem to be only gaining fat.I might try and add deadlifts to the start of the upper body rep day and see how that goes.

dave80

randomperson88 wrote: »

As I said I used it for over four weeks last year and wasn't too impressed with the results,hence me giving up on it quicker this time.I'm actually just basing my results on the mirror,I'v been eating loads because I need to put on another 3 or 4 kg but on this program I seem to be only gaining fat.I might try and add deadlifts to the start of the upper body rep day and see how that goes.

have a look at this, its a 3 day per week full body each day, its great for losing fat and increasing muscle

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=508031