Bereavement queries ie 'estate' and Probate...

mollzer

I am trying to understand what exactly gets included in an estate if the deceased has left no will.
I have learned that firstly after the Death Cert is issued a Grant of administration has to be applied for through the Probate office for any banks/financial institutions requesting one so they can give out monies to the spouse and children.
My deceased husband had no will, and his employer has requested a Grant of Administration (no problem/easy to understand that). What I cannot understand is our insurance company (of our dual policy) has not looked for a Grant yet my solicitor thinks the monies there should be part of the 'estate'.

So what is supposed to be included in the 'estate' to divide up between spouse and children ? (I know the employers lump sum is to be divided, and the childrens share put into trust funds).

Tom Young

This is borderline in relation to the forum charter poster. Its very borderline.

Advice is not given here, merely opinion. As you've hired a solicitor he is best placed to advise you. Reliance on any data posted here is not something I'd recommend, but the 1965 Succession Act, Part VI (I think) deals with intestate succession Sections 66 and onwards.

Tom

mollzer

Thanks for the reply.
I will keep looking up the internet for info on this, as citizens information is very meagre in its legal info.
Thanks anyway, but you're probably right re this being 'borderline', someone could end up giving legal knowledge when practical info like yours Tom is all I need.

Tom Young

www.irishstatutebook.ie

Acts - 1965 - down the bottom is the Succession Act. What you're after is technical and I'd guess somewhat personal too so best done under a client/solicitor relationship.

Tom

dats_right

mollzer wrote: »

What I cannot understand is our insurance company (of our dual policy) has not looked for a Grant yet my solicitor thinks the monies there should be part of the 'estate'.

The Succession Act is unlikely to be of assistance on this point. Insurance policies do not necessarily fall into the estate. It can be highly complex, the key issue is the beneficial ownership of the policy. Ask your solicitor more about this.

mollzer wrote: »

So what is supposed to be included in the 'estate' to divide up between spouse and children ? (I know the employers lump sum is to be divided, and the childrens share put into trust funds).

Again ask your solicitor for full advice, but generally, all property to which the deceased was beneficially entitled to at his death and not ceasing at death (eg joint tenancy) and remaining after payment of all debts, expenses and liabilities [other than CAT].

Maximilian

I haven't checked to be sure but I think the reason is that although the life insurance proceeds may fall outside the estate as such, they are considered forming part of the estate for tax purposes.

If you want to educate yourself on the matter. There are a number of helpful guides on the Revenue Website. They are easy to follow and should tell you what you need to know, as you don't appear to have confidence in what your own solicitor is telling you.

mollzer

Thanks for that Maximilian, there was more info there than the courts site and citizens information, even got my definition of 'estate'.

And yes, I dont have much confidence in my solicitor due to his lack of knowledge in this area, and my insurance company being adament I should have had the monies months ago! That this is the first time they have had this experience with a solicitor not paying on the insurance to a surviving spouse/joint policy holder.

mollzer

Just an update on this thread to those who did reply to me.
Turns out I was right, the joint insurance policy did not form part of the deceased estate. I quoted the Succession Act and notes from the Probate office, (which in the end I contacted re this matter) and my solicitor immediately paid out the monies in question.
There was no explanation as to why he was adament one minute that these monies belonged to the estate, and the next they didnt, and to be honest I was so annoyed about the hassle I had been put through I didnt ask for one.

So in my opinion not every solicitor can give the best advice, if in any doubt seek a second opinion.