Cross roads reached in training, need some advice.

Running Bing

First a little background. Im training for my first marathon and dont have much running experience. Just did a 17 miler today (furthest Ive ever gone) and I am feeling very positive about the training (aside from one small thing which Ill get to in a bit). Now Im following a beginners programme and the remaining runs are as follows:

1. 5, 8,5, 18
2. 5, 8, 5, 18
3. Taper to Marathon (two weeks in programme)


Now I really want to get in a 20 miler just for confidence really and I think I could do it. I planned it so I would have an extra week in the programme to fit it in. Now something I have noticed over the last few runs is a small niggle in my shin (symptons of shin splints). Now at the moment this is completely manageable, its basically a very small niggle early in the run and the a small niggle after the run. Its barely even an annoyance tbh and it doesnt really hurt or slow me down at all. The point is I know how these things can develop so Im being cautious about it(I ice the area after each run). Having said that I have three options now and I was hoping someone could guide me as to which would be best.

Option 1:

The first option is:

1. 5, 8, 5, 18
2. 5, 8, 5, 18
3. 5, 8, 5, 20
4. Taper

This would be my preferred option my only question would be is it alright to go from 20 miles into a taper? Its not too much of a decline is it?

Option 2:

Basically the same thing but put the 20 miler between the two 18's so:

1. 5, 8, 5, 18
2. 5, 8, 5, 20
3. 5, 8, 5, 18
4. Taper

Not sure if Im being pedantic about this...is there any difference between one and two?

Option 3:

Dont really want to do this one but its basically throwing caution to the wind and taking a week off from running. I want to avoid that at all costs but do people think once you feel even the slightest bit of a niggle its best to take a break?

If I was to go for this option would people recommend still getting a 20 miler in instead of one of the 18 mile runs or just sticking to the 18's?



Anyway sorry for the long (possibly confusing) post. Id appreciate any advice (if you got this far:o). Thanks.

Peckham

Don't think there's much difference between options 1 & 2 to be honest. I'd do whichever you feel most comfortable with. No reason why you can't have a 20-miler two weeks out, but maybe it might be better to have it 3 weeks out given that you've never done a 20-miler before - just to be on the safe side, and to fit in with your taper. Incidentally, what's your taper plan like?

Definitely wouldn't take a week off though, unless it was injury-enforced!

The only thing to consider is that there is a general rule of thumb that your long run should not be more than 50% of your total weekly mileage, which in the case of your planned 20 it would be. But this isn't a real problem as a once-off.

Also, might be worth getting that niggle checked out...am assuming you're on peak mileage at the moment, which if it is shin splints will only make things worse.

911sc

Babybing wrote: »

I want to avoid that at all costs but do people think once you feel even the slightest bit of a niggle its best to take a break?

Better to take a week off running than getting injured & not able to race on the 29th..
Taking a week off running does not mean doing nothing.. cross train during that week (elliptial cross trainer, swimming,etc.. ). Basically anything with no impact.

As said Peckam, get that niggle checked would be a good course of action... that's your body complaining about something!!

MayoRoadRunner

Hi Babybing,

I picked up that 'niggle' about 6 weeks ago and it quickly turned into full blown shin splints in my left leg. Missed 3 weeks training because of it. Went to see a physical therapist a couple of times and he done some good work on it. Also got anti inflamatory gel and tablets and had to ice it every evening. It was a serious blow to my training. Back into it now though. Done a 20 miler just there and no complaints. Think the main thing as regards shin splints is to try and really relax the calf muscles when running. Make them as limp as you can when running and this will alleviate the pain. it worked for me anyways.
I'm not saying that the same thing is going to happen to you. Just listen to your body very closely over the next week and if that niggle becomes something bigger lay off the mileage straight away.

ekevosu

I'm training for my first marathon as well and following hal higdons programme which has the following long runs left (although he has 19 this week not 20):

20
12
20
12
8
race

last 3 long runs were 17, 18, 13.

Might be an option. Not sure is it better to do a few long runs in a row or take a knock down week in between at this stage.

your midweek runs seem the same as mine so not sure are you following hal's as well or doing your own.

Running Bing

Its starting to get a bit more prominent now so I think Ill try a week of cross training.


My question is, how damaging would this be to my training? Ill get in an 18 miler next weekend, a 20 the following and then start tapering. Would doing a week of cross training be a disaster at this stage?


My other question is what should I do? My gut says eliptical trainer..should I just stay on it for as long as I would usually do my running?

Im hesitant to go to a doctor because I know its shin splints and Im pretty sure I know why I am getting them....a doctor will only tell me to rest which is useless to me tbh.

Peckham

Week of cross training is preferable to making the injury worse, however I really think you should seek the advice of a professional - maybe a physio rather than a doctor. A good physio who understands running will be able to make recommendations re training and stretching.

Some recommended names have been thrown around on this site. Where are you based?

MayoRoadRunner

Hi Babybing,

When i was suffered from shin splints i got on a bike to keep up the cardio fitness. When i peddled i used my heels rather than my toes as this was advised by my phsical therapist.

On that note i would recomenned a physical therapist over other options. Doctor would be waste of money in yur case imo. He will just tell you to rest for a few weeks which is not what you want to hear and physio will tell you something similar. Physical therapist will do work on it and you will feel like you got value for money coming out of there imo.
Ice the area twice a day at least. if you know an pharmacist get anti inflamatory gel and tablets off him and lastly when you are running try and relax your calf muscle and this will take the strain off you shins.i cannot stress this last point enough and it was what got me through my episode of shin splints.

Its not the end of the world for your training and if you do the above you can still make it to the start line in October.

Go see a physical therapist ASAP imo

cfitz

I'd like to hear people's opinions on what the best non-impact exercises are for cardiovascular work. I'm minding an injury at the moment and I've been trying the following:

Aqua jogging - doesn't seem to work my heart but hopefully it's doing my muscles good.

Eliptical Trainer - have to go quite fast to get my heart rate up over 130, so my legs get tired before I get a decent workout.

Cycling - like with the Eliptical Trainer, to get the heart rate up I have to cycle really hard and then my legs end up getting tired very quickly.

Are there other options? Is there a better way of doing the exercises above?

MCOS

cfitz wrote: »

I'd like to hear people's opinions on what the best non-impact exercises are for cardiovascular work. I'm minding an injury at the moment and I've been trying the following:

Aqua jogging - doesn't seem to work my heart but hopefully it's doing my muscles good.

Eliptical Trainer - have to go quite fast to get my heart rate up over 130, so my legs get tired before I get a decent workout.

Cycling - like with the Eliptical Trainer, to get the heart rate up I have to cycle really hard and then my legs end up getting tired very quickly.

Are there other options? Is there a better way of doing the exercises above?

Rowing ergometer - low stroke rate and pull hard!
Spin Classes - if you have access to them
Swimming - If you can go for 30 mins or more

cfitz

MCOS wrote: »

Rowing ergometer - low stroke rate and pull hard!
Spin Classes - if you have access to them
Swimming - If you can go for 30 mins or more

Might try the rowing, thanks.

How would spin classes differ from cycling on the road (form a heartrate point of view)?

My breathing while swimming isn't up to scratch at all but I might try improve that in the near future.

tunney

cfitz wrote: »

How would spin classes differ from cycling on the road (form a heartrate point of view)?

Hotter environment, silly high cadences, more upper body work.

cfitz

tunney wrote: »

Hotter environment, silly high cadences, more upper body work.

Could you expand on these for me please?

(Bearing in mind that I had to google 'spin classes' to find out that they involved bikes.)

My background is in running, I know nothing much about cycling and swimming (I can just about do both!).

tunney

Hotter environment: indoors, feck all ventilation, no cool air in your face as would happen cycling outdoors, lots of other hot sweaty people in the spinning room with you. Gets hot and humid. Exercising in hot conditions increases the HR for same effort.
Silly high cadences: The higher the cadence the more the CV system is taxed over the legs. If you start to spin 120rpm or so there is little load on the legs and lots on the CV system.
More upper body work: They make you assume positions to work the upper body while cycling - more work, higher HR.

My two cents.

MCOS

The spin classes can be a bit of fun as well as a serious workout. Like running intervals you will push hard with someone beside you. The music is generally heavy beat type stuff that you can anticipate a chorus and push hard. They are generally 45 mins and if you have a good instructor they are the business. I agree with Tunney that they are hot and sweaty so that does drive the HR up a good option to train the cycling muscles for faster work over he winter.

I am a bit biased towards the rower though. If the instructor can show you somewhat decent technique (i.e pushing from the legs before you pull with your arms, proper recovery) it is a fantastic cv workout that will sort out your HR too!

cfitz

MCOS wrote: »

I am a bit biased towards the rower though. If the instructor can show you somewhat decent technique (i.e pushing from the legs before you pull with your arms, proper recovery) it is a fantastic cv workout that will sort out your HR too!

There is a rower set up in my house but I have never used it. It's new but it is a fairly basic model I think. Would I need someone to show me the technique?

Running Bing

cfitz wrote: »

There is a rower set up in my house but I have never used it. It's new but it is a fairly basic model I think. Would I need someone to show me the technique?

Everyone goes on about the technique but I think its actually quite natural.

The main thing is to keep your back straight and not to lean to far forward or back.

There's a good demo on the concept 2 website. You could look at yourself in the mirror or get someone to videotape you to see if your going wrong. Like I said though its quite a natural technique.

Stupid_Private

Babybing wrote: »

Everyone goes on about the technique but I think its actually quite natural.

I beg to differ here. If you ever look at people in the gym using it the majority have the technique completely wrong and it certainly doesn't look natural.

You've got to let your arms go forward before your legs. Then you get a nice rhythm going.

MCOS

I'll bet that the rower you have in your house is not a Concept 2 model (has a flywheel), if it is your are in business!

Concept 2 have a very good site that caters for anyone using a rower and not just oarsmen.

Check it out at http://www.concept2.com/us/training/technique.asp

Have a look at the muscles used diagrams if you need convincing on how many muscles it works out! Most of the power comes from the legs.

I guess its a bit like swimming, the more technical you are the less effort you use and the longer you can stay on it. You can also apply more power. Most people can't last more than 10 minutes on a rower, the same way that I couldn't last more than 10 minutes swimming (even though I could run for 2 hours!).

Good or bad technique, it will get your HR up!

MCOS

Stupid_Private wrote: »

I beg to differ here. If you ever look at people in the gym using it the majority have the technique completely wrong and it certainly doesn't look natural.

You've got to let your arms go forward before your legs. Then you get a nice rhythm going.

You are correct, its not a natural rythm. Imagine doing a dead lift (or power clean) with straight arms. Thats the drive phase. The back leans and then the arms pull. Most of the people in the gym will just pull with their arms first.

From the end of the stroke you then extend your arms first, pivot forward to get your reach and then bend your knees to move forward. This is more important in a boat because it gives you more reach with your oar to take a longer stroke. On the machine, if you bent your knees first you will have to lift the handle over them when you recover (slide forward). Most Instructors are advising people to keep a stroke rate of 30spm (most do more like 40!!). So lifting the handle over your knees 30-40 times a minute, plus the banging of the chain, plus the rapid bum shoving up and down the slide, only using the arms... its no wonder people get off after 10 minutes knackered!