Public Consultation on Mullingar to Longford Dual Carriageway.

impr0v

Takes place next week. See link.

There's also a map of the route options available.

Sponge Bob

I suppose they must look like they are doing something in that office in case they are closed down .

SeanW

I was at the exhibition in Longford the other day, impressive, the plan is for a mostly or totally offline build.

Apparently, the form of the road is a tossup between a 2+2 and a Type 1 Dual Carraigeway

In addition, all the routes on those maps are in equal consideration. i.e. nothing in our out, nothing favoured yet that yer'man was willing to say.

I am very much hoping they will choose the latter, a Type 1 dual, because grade separated interchanges would make travel times faster for everyone, and for road safety reasons, i.e. cable barriers are in my view unpleasent and unsafe to people in motorcycles and small vehicles while being little deterrent to an out of control truck for example, and with the lack of a hard shoulder, I would be gravely concerned for the safety of a disabled vehicle including my own should I ever be in such a situation.

In addition, outside the towns and villages (some of which are bypassed already) most motorists can easily maintain 60mph and higher in a safe manner in the normal course. To obtain significant time savings of more than a few minutes, grade separated junctions, or at least an absence of roundabouts and other obstacles, will be required.

That decision will in theory come down to expected traffic volumes, but I fear that in the current economic climate it will be done on the cheap even if existing and projected traffic volumes demand a proper dual carriageway scheme.

BluntGuy

I don't particuarly agree with offline 2+2 schemes. For a relatively small increase in price, you can build at least a low-grade dual carriageway with hard shoulder and a few GSJs. Much more future proof and has potential for motorway upgrading.

In my opinion 2+2s are a much better option when retrofitted to an existing road. But... once again, as said before, it'll probably come down to traffic volumes...

Chris_533976

IMO 2+2 is perfect for these schemes, as long as councillers dont zone stuff close to the roundabouts, so GSJs can be solved in the future.

murphaph

Chris_533976 wrote: »

IMO 2+2 is perfect for these schemes, as long as councillers dont zone stuff close to the roundabouts, so GSJs can be solved in the future.

I would agree but I also dislike our 2+2 wire rope barrier. Aside form the danger to bikers (like me) they present an ongoing maintenance headache (lane closures for repair work etc) and this in itself is needlessly hazardous for the road workers. A concrete step barrier is the obvious man for the job on our 2+2s and I doubt more than a foot would be required to fit it in-50 year lifetime guaranteed.

Carriageways should be flared on the approach to roundabouts to allow future upgrade to GSJs where necessary.

D.L.R.

SeanW wrote: »

Apparently, the form of the road is a tossup between a 2+2 and a Type 1 Dual Carraigeway

Type 1 is the same as HQDC/Motorway. I would be surprised if they do go for that, though it would be nice. Maybe they'll do an Ennis/Gorey on it.

SeanW

I'd settle for a Grade Separated Dual Carraigeway (i.e. unbroken median DC but without the engineering spec of a HQDC/Motorway, curvature, lane width, hard shoulders should be there but don't have to be universal etc).
In other words, even a low to medium grade dual carriageway with an unbroken Jersey Barrier median.

But I understand those aren't built much these days. Shame.

BluntGuy

Well my theory is that if they're going to go to the expense of buying land and building offline they may as well do a 'once-and-for-all' job.

I am in no way suggesting it should be full HQDC built to motorway specs, although I'd love that. But a low-grade dual carriageway would suffice as it would have hard-shoulder and an unbroken median.

It would be combining the best elements of 2+2 (cheaper than HQDC) with some good elements of the HQDC (hard shoulder, better junctions, unbroken median).

And for God's sake, even if they do build it as a 2+2 scheme, will they:

(a) Allow space for future-upgrading

(b) Use a concrete barrior instead of the wire mesh designed to de-capitate people.

icdg

SeanW wrote: »

I'd settle for a Grade Separated Dual Carraigeway (i.e. unbroken median DC but without the engineering spec of a HQDC/Motorway, curvature, lane width, hard shoulders should be there but don't have to be universal etc).
In other words, even a low to medium grade dual carriageway with an unbroken Jersey Barrier median.

But I understand those aren't built much these days. Shame.

They do built them from time to time, but they tend to be limited to the second tier national primary roads. Some roads that people seem to think are HQDC, like the Arklow, Gorey, Newmarket-on-Fergus, and Ennis bypasses are in fact built to the above specification and are not HQDCs.

Another option would be to go for the R136 solution, an at-grade dual carriageway with a hard shoulder (well a bus lane in the R136's case) and a Jersey barrier. Similar to 2+2 but a slightly higher standard.

Sponge Bob

The 'problem' with this stretch of road is that traffic numbers justify a Proper Type 1 around Mullingar ( 20k cars a day) but a low quality type 1 like the N18 or a 2+2 by the time it reaches Longford if you look at these traffic stats

http://www.nra.ie/NetworkManagement/TrafficCounts/TrafficCounterData/html/N04-21.htm

http://www.nra.ie/NetworkManagement/TrafficCounts/TrafficCounterData/html/N04-28.htm

where the volume of traffic is halved to 10k cars a day wast of Longford .

Maybe a full HQDC Type 1 to Edgeworthstown and a 'LQDC' Type 1 or even a 2+2 west of there and around Longford to the N5 . They have enough space to retrofit the existing N4 bypass to 2+2 .

wellboss

I take it this road is planned to be an extension of the N4 from Mullingar to meet up with the 2+2 section that bypasses Roosky? Which would be great. Even though 2+2 aren't great they are alot better than whats around most of the north west at present:D:D.

Will the N5 bypass be a spur from this DC/2+2.Any news on this scheme?
Lucky enough I live in North mayo and can use the N4 to get home from Dublin:)

Any Idea when this scheme is "SUPPOSED" to start, I heard 2010 on another forum but wont believe a thing until I see the diggers:D

D.L.R.

Its going to be DC all the way betweeen the two existing DCs. But the type hasn't been decided yet. North of Longford I think 2+2 is fair enough, but the southern part should really be Gorey/Ennis Bypass standard. Here's hoping anyway. It won't be clear how the N5 will be affected, until we see the N4 preferred route.

But don't hold your breath, first priorities are the M18, M20, N11 gap & Newlands Cross upgrade. And nobody knows when they'll be ok-ed*. Maybe the M17 will come before it too. After those, (and if the money isn't all in Metro North and Interconnector by then), then the N4 should be on the table.

I'd guesstimate it'll go ahead in the next 5-10 years, depending on if the sky falls in or not :rolleyes:

*except for M18 Crusheen-Gort, construction imminent

Irish and Proud

D.L.R. wrote: »

Its going to be DC all the way betweeen the two existing DCs. But the type hasn't been decided yet. North of Longford I think 2+2 is fair enough, but the southern part should really be Gorey/Ennis Bypass standard. Here's hoping anyway. It won't be clear how the N5 will be affected, until we see the N4 preferred route.

But don't hold your breath, first priorities are the M18, M20, N11 gap & Newlands Cross upgrade. And nobody knows when they'll be ok-ed*. Maybe the M17 will come before it too. After those, (and if the money isn't all in Metro North and Interconnector by then), then the N4 should be on the table.

I'd guesstimate it'll go ahead in the next 5-10 years, depending on if the sky falls in or not :rolleyes:

*except for M18 Crusheen-Gort, construction imminent

...and given that the N4 scheme is most likely to be deferred for a few years, by the time it's construction is started, a motorway would probably fit the bill. IMO, I'd certainly have the M4 extended all the way to the N5 split West of Longford town. If the minimum traffic levels are now 10K, what will they be by the design year. I'd even look at the doing the entire N4 to motorway standard for around 2020+. Isn't Sligo designated as a major gateway development centre in the national spatial strategy - I know such is irrelevant in the short term, but for the long term...

Regards!

BluntGuy

I can see the M4 being extended slightly, but all the way to Sligo? I very much doubt it.

Offline 2+2 is a mistake IMO. For a modest increase, they'd have hard-shoulder in there easily. But again, it's better than twisty S2 road.

Anyway, I'm expecting this to be mostly 2+2... but low-grade DC would be nice...

nordydan

They should still build the N5 bypass at the moment, and extend to the N63. If this scheme is built, then it would act as a distributor road.

On a separate note, a large scale realignment of the N5 further north would be a great idea, around the Boyle area. I am sure the cities of Strokestown could survive without a DC at their doorsteps!!

I could never see the entirety of the N5 dualled, ie the section between Charlestoan and Longford. However a new build between Charlestown and Boyle would be a possible DC contender, although it would be about 30km long!

Irish and Proud

BluntGuy wrote: »

I can see the M4 being extended slightly, but all the way to Sligo? I very much doubt it.

Offline 2+2 is a mistake IMO. For a modest increase, they'd have hard-shoulder in there easily. But again, it's better than twisty S2 road.

Anyway, I'm expecting this to be mostly 2+2... but low-grade DC would be nice...

...well I'd certainly go as far as Longford with the M4. Was on the N4 from Edgeworthstown to Longford many a time in the 1990's and a DC wouldn't have gone a miss even then. I can only imagine what the traffic is like now, especially given that an emergency bypass at Edgeworthstown was built a couple of years back. Anything less than a motorway to Longford would be a serious mistake IMO.

Also, as it stands, the Northwestern quadrant of the country has virtually nothing planned or built in the form of HQDCs or motorways. IMO, this is unbalanced economic policy - that said, the Southern half of the country requires more motorways, but the Northwest should still have at least a partial motorway from Longford towards Dublin.

Regards!