Would an M25 make the M8 defunct?

Amtmann

Just looking at a map, and I notice that if an M25 were constructed from Cork to Waterford, and if this was connected with the M9, would Dublin-bound Cork traffic use this instead of the M8?

Which would be faster?

Victor

It would be similar. There is also the option of Cork-Limerick-Dublin.

L1011

I can't see a potential M25-M9-M7 being any faster than an M8-M7 and, as Victor says, some people do N20-N7 as it as.

marmurr1916

Can't see the full road between Cork and Waterford ever being upgraded to motorway. The terrain between Youghal and Dungarvan is very hilly and a motorway would be very expensive to build.

At best there'll be a motorway between Cork and Youghal and a dual-carriageway from Waterford to west of Dungarvan with the current road in between remaining largely as it is (perhaps with some short sections upgraded).

corktina

the N25 is in fact a Euroroute (thats hould be AN euroroute but it looked wrong) so it will no doubt be upgraded..(there were signs at Dungarvan with the e-route number but they seem to have been taken down again...

bk

Furet wrote: »

Just looking at a map, and I notice that if an M25 were constructed from Cork to Waterford, and if this was connected with the M9, would Dublin-bound Cork traffic use this instead of the M8?

Which would be faster?

M8-M7 would probably be still faster IMO.

However having multiple high quality routes going in the same rough direction (via Limerick also) is a great idea, as it creates a road network much more capable of handling congestion and traffic accidents.

This is how the excellent German autobahn network is built, much better idea then how they do it in the UK.

BluntGuy

bk wrote: »

M8-M7 would probably be still faster IMO.

However having multiple high quality routes going in the same rough direction (via Limerick also) is a great idea, as it creates a road network much more capable of handling congestion and traffic accidents.

This is how the excellent German autobahn network is built, much better idea then how they do it in the UK.

I totally agree. Look at the M1 motorway in England, it has nine other motorways and a host of other roads leading onto it and it is congested ALL the time. It is now being upgraded to four lanes in each direction in many parts, but even that won't be enough.

The system we've chosen will work far better.

marmurr1916

corktina wrote: »

the N25 is in fact a Euroroute (thats hould be AN euroroute but it looked wrong) so it will no doubt be upgraded..(there were signs at Dungarvan with the e-route number but they seem to have been taken down again...

Most of the route probably will be but I doubt that the really steep section from Dungarvan to near Coolroe will ever be brought up to motorway standard. I doubt either that the stretch from Youghal to the junction with the Clashmore road will be either.

Both stretches would be too expensive to upgrade to motorway standard and traffic levels don't warrant a motorway upgrade either.

AugustusMaximus

Traffic at junction is prob the big problem for the future in terms of inter urbans.

For instance, why build limited movement junctions at M7/M8 and M7/M9 ? Sheer stupidity.

People using R roads to avoid Tolls will be a bit of a problem too.

BluntGuy

AugustusMaximus wrote: »

Traffic at junction is prob the big problem for the future in terms of inter urbans.

For instance, why build limited movement junctions at M7/M8 and M7/M9 ? Sheer stupidity.

People using R roads to avoid Tolls will be a bit of a problem too.

That's true...

It surely wouldn't take THAT much to at LEAST add a left turning slip road so people can turn from the M8 Northbound onto the M7 Westbound or from M9N onto the M7W. M7E > M8S and M7E > M9S would require more effort, but they should do SOMETHING! I hate restricted access junctions.

marmurr1916

The M8/M7 restrictions are especially stupid. Traffic on the M8 coming from south of this interchange should be able to turn left onto the M7 to connect with the N62 at Roscrea, allowing people to continue north to Athlone.

If the N62 from Roscrea to Athlone was improved it would provide a viable alternative route from traffic from Cork to/from Galway via Athlone in the event of major hold-ups on the N18/N20.

Roscrea to Athlone is only ca. 60 km. The road from Roscrea to Birr is in pretty good condition. A Birr relief road and improvements from Birr to Athlone (ca. 40 km), along with a full M8/M7 interchange would give us a decent route from Cork to Athlone at relatively low cost.

BluntGuy

marmurr1916 wrote: »

The M8/M7 restrictions are especially stupid. Traffic on the M8 coming from south of this interchange should be able to turn left onto the M7 to connect with the N62 at Roscrea, allowing people to continue north to Athlone.

If the N62 from Roscrea to Athlone was improved it would provide a viable alternative route from traffic from Cork to/from Galway via Athlone in the event of major hold-ups on the N18/N20.

Roscrea to Athlone is only ca. 60 km. The road from Roscrea to Birr is in pretty good condition. A Birr relief road and improvements from Birr to Athlone (ca. 40 km), along with a full M8/M7 interchange would give us a decent route from Cork to Athlone at relatively low cost.

I agree with everything you just said...

But alas, the M7/M8 is forever going to be restricted because the PPP contractor wants to TRAP people into going onto the M7 toll plaza.

marmurr1916

Which is ridiculous for traffic wanting to go from say Kilkenny to Limerick via N77, M8, M7!

The NRA should cop-on and realise that not everyone wants to travel to/from Dublin. :mad:

BluntGuy

marmurr1916 wrote: »

Which is ridiculous for traffic wanting to go from say Kilkenny to Limerick via N77, M8, M7!

The NRA should cop-on and realise that not everyone wants to travel to/from Dublin. :mad:

No you're wrong. Absolutely everybody in the country drives to and from Dublin and no where else. End of story.

fricatus

BluntGuy wrote: »

That's true...

It surely wouldn't take THAT much to at LEAST add a left turning slip road so people can turn from the M8 Northbound onto the M7 Westbound or from M9N onto the M7W. M7E > M8S and M7E > M9S would require more effort, but they should do SOMETHING! I hate restricted access junctions.

But sure lads... the motorways are there so we can all go to Dublin... didn'tcha know that? :rolleyes:

I mean who would be going from Cork to Athlone?

BluntGuy

fricatus wrote: »

But sure lads... the motorways are there so we can all go to Dublin... didn'tcha know that? :rolleyes:

I mean who would be going from Cork to Athlone?

I know one person... no TWO people actually!

Surely that justifies a Cork to Athlone motorway!

marmurr1916

Silly me. Sure isn't Dublin a bit like Rome? All roads lead to her...

If I was dictator for a day, I'd order major improvements to the following routes:

N52, N80, N61, N62. If these were all at least 2+2 standard (preferably motorway for most of the N52 between Louth and Tullamore) they'd provide excellent links from all corners of the country and would be great alternatives to the busy east coast (M1, M50, M/N11) and western seaboard (N20, N18, N17) routes.

I'd also improve the N12, N54, N55 corridor by upgrading the entire route to national primary 2+2 standard, giving a decent road between Athlone (as a major road hub) and Belfast.

The road could roughly follow the alignment of the existing R212 between Cavan and Clones to avoid the N54/A3/N54/A3/N54 stretch.

IMO, any post Transport 21 investment in national secondary routes should prioritise investment on these key routes. It'll pay off over the longer term because it will reduce congestion on the Atlantic Corridor and east coast routes.

mike65

You forgot the horror of the N24 on which you are only 5 mins from the next village/town/crossroads.

Mike.

marmurr1916

Plans for improving the N24 are being developed under T21.

I'm talking about post T21 improvements.

Once the main national primary routes (1-11, and 15,17-20,24,25) are sorted under T21, I think priority for future road improvements should go to the N52, N80, N61, N62 and the N55/54/12 corridor.

If all these roads are improved to a high standard (at least 2+2) then Ireland's regions will have excellent road connections to each other.

BluntGuy

The N24 has been a dumping ground for evil 2+1 schemes. :mad:

I think the route deserves to be 2+2 at the very least (it is linking two major cities and a large number of towns Clonmel, Carrick etc.)

Chris_533976

N24 will probably be 2+2 with the abandonment of 2+1 recently.

IMO most of the N24 wont be touched for a long time... its low priority at the moment.

fricatus

Chris_533976 wrote: »

N24 will probably be 2+2 with the abandonment of 2+1 recently.

IMO most of the N24 wont be touched for a long time... its low priority at the moment.

It's the main corridor for the movement of goods and people between the Galway/Limerick area and the ports of Waterford, New Ross and Rosslare.

Surely that should make it a national priority?

Lennoxschips

ah yes, the millions of tonnes of freight being moved between limerick and waterford

Chris_533976

fricatus wrote: »

It's the main corridor for the movement of goods and people between the Galway/Limerick area and the ports of Waterford, New Ross and Rosslare.

Surely that should make it a national priority?

Compared to Cork - Waterford and Cork - Galway anyway its a low priority.

fricatus

Lennoxschips wrote: »

ah yes, the millions of tonnes of freight being moved between limerick and waterford

Scoff if you will, but I thought there was at least a token commitment from government to develop the regions, particularly the west. Part of that involves providing access to the west from continental Europe, and that involves improving the N24.

invincibleirish

fricatus wrote: »

It's the main corridor for the movement of goods and people between the Galway/Limerick area and the ports of Waterford, New Ross and Rosslare.

Surely that should make it a national priority?

Those ports are/will be served by 2 brand shiny new Motorways To Dublin, they are well looked after.

The West is closer To Dublin Port now by improved Roads then it is to the SE. its not a national priority to develop iconic infrastructure which will be under used in the name of linking up the regions.