Princess and the frog...

Nevyn

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0j7EactM9s

This time the newest member of the disney princess possé teaches young girls that when being pressured into preforming intimate acts with a person they are not attracted to do give in as he may turn into the prince you want to marry………

Oh and look finally a princess of colour,
cos they have an asian one,
a red head fishy one,
several blondes,
a raven haired one,
a native american one,
a middle eastern arab one
a booksish brunette one
and have at last one for nearly every lil girl to aspire to be………….

Cynical moi ?

Awayindahils

Thaedydal wrote: »

Cynical moi ?

Never.:rolleyes:

I used to quite like Disney, but then again in the Little Mermaid I felt that Ursula was horribly misunderstood.:p

Nevyn

AFter all she was trying to help people,
" Those poor unfortunate souls, in pain, in need..."

Dragan

Disney are awesome.

The make Hannah-Barbara look like My Little Pony.

Or sumthink.

Drift

Thaedydal wrote: »

This time the newest member of the disney princess possé teaches young girls that when being pressured into preforming intimate acts with a person they are not attracted to do give in as he may turn into the prince you want to marry………

In fairness Thae I think you might be reading a bit much into it. I doubt the writers at Disney decided that women were beginning to get a bit uppity and were less likely to be persuaded into morally debassing acts than before so it's time the future generation were forced back into more submissive roles by a cartoon! Most fairytales have their roots in traditional gender stereotypes. I don't think that necessarily means the a conspiracy in motion to keep women in their place.

Thaedydal wrote: »

Oh and look finally a princess of colour,
cos they have an asian one,
a red head fishy one,
several blondes,
a raven haired one,
a native american one,
a middle eastern arab one
a booksish brunette one
and have at last one for nearly every lil girl to aspire to be………….

Thats the type of wishy washy offend no-one nonsense that goes on these days and if you were to have the princess politely shaking hands with the frog surely you'd be adding to it!

Dudess

I don't think that's a Disney story.

Nevyn

Dudess wrote: »

I don't think that's a Disney story.

Did you watch the trailer ?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0780521/

I don't like the messages disney portrays to young girls and boys.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CWMCt35oFY

Drift she does shake hands with the frog in the trailer.

I don't think it is to do with not offending I think it is to do with market shares and getting to a demographic which was not accessible to them due to little girls who are black not relating to the disney princess line up and not wanting their merchandise, from dresses, to pilates balls to duvet covers you name it it's big money trying to exploit children.

Dudess

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Frog_Prince_(story)

Drift

Thaedydal wrote: »

Drift she does shake hands with the frog in the trailer.

I know, that's why I picked it as an example. I seriously doubt the film ends up with her shaking his hand though. Presumably through an elaborate serious of life-saving overly romantic gestures he shows her that he is worth kissing or some such. I don't think there's any deliberately sexist/submissivist overture to the story. It's just a story. The original fairytale is also stereotyping young girls if you examine it with a view to finding this sort of problem but if you just take it as a product of it's time it's a story with a happy ending for children. My point is it's possible to see steroetyping/sexism/racism and many other evils in almost every area of pop culture and the media if you deliberately set out to find it - I'm not saying this is right or ok but just that it doesn't mean that Disney or anyone else are deliberately pushing that agenda.

Thaedydal wrote: »

I don't think it is to do with not offending I think it is to do with market shares and getting to a demographic which was not accessible to them due to little girls who are black not relating to the disney princess line up and not wanting their merchandise, from dresses, to pilates balls to duvet covers you name it it's big money trying to exploit children.

No doubt they want to appeal to all demographics. But if you take the native american demographic as an example; there's far too few native americans worldwide or even in the states to justify spending the degree of money they did on whatever that film was called. They were under pressure to show what's seen as "sensitivity" to all sides of the community. I just think the whole thing has got a bit out of hand and if we carry on down the current route of tying the hands of all script/story writers to come up with stories that cannot be seen as offensive to any section of any community we'll end up with a bland set of unentertaining "politically correct" artwork masquerating a culture.

spinandscribble

i really don't think this is a bad thing. every little girl would like to see a princess who basically resembles them. I'm glad theres a black one. since none of us have watched the film it's a bit early to be giving out about the plot.

the little mermaid always pissed me off (he fell in love with her even though she never spoke one word) but mulan was a better role model.

fruitbat

Do any disney films end with the woman happy and fufilled as a single person? I'm not against happy endings or anything, but it would be nice to see it.

Take Mulan for example - yes she can prove herself as good as the men, but seemingly she was only complete once she had fallen in love, and got the object of her affection to love her for evermore etc etc.

Thanks Thaedydal for the video - twas interesting.

In saying this though I love disney films, especially when Im ill and just want to lie on the sofa with the duvet. If I ever have children of course they will be allowed to watch them but I guess you would need to make sure kids have a balanced set of role models or whatever.

Red Hand

The Frog Prince, as Dudess indicates, is not a Disney story. It's a German folk tale from the Brothers Grimm. Likewise, many of the other characters the OP refers to are not Disney creations...they are from folk tales. Disney has only reworked them to make the appealing to modern audiences.

And sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.;). (Or a story just a story). No need for the pseudo-Freud in depth analysis of Disney.

GirlInterrupted

I find it hard to be offended by something so twee and bland.

The full force of my scorn is directed at 'Bratz' dolls which promote the shallowest, most materialistic and self obsessed traits on display in society today.

These 'hooker Barbies' are truly disgusting, and provide a role model based on everything you would not want your child to be, or to aspire to be.

jellie

You could probably find hidden meaning in every film/cartoon/story if you look hard enough. I love disney films & generally just take story at face value - its a story.

F.A.

In fairness to Thaedydal, the original fairy tale from the Grimm-collection was quite possibly and plausibly used to coherse or at least comfort young girls presented with the prospect of marrying someone they might be less than impressed by. Remember, marriage usedn't always be a bond of love...

lilmizzme

I always thought the princess and the frog story was the most....morally sound, if that's the right phrase. The princess in it was a stuck up priss who had to learn not to judge people (albeit, frogs) by their appearance...the frog had to sleep on her pillow, eat her food etc. I always thought it taught a good lesson to children, rather than it be a total fairy tale bed time story like sleeping beauty or cinderella. Teaches respect, generosity, humbleness, good character etc


At the same time guys, it's a disney film....not a Chaucer novel....i really don't think there's any need for the extreme analysis...it is a cartoon story after all!

Drift

Jeremiah 16:1 wrote: »

And sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.;).

THAT'S the phrase I was trying to remember all through my response. Kept thinking of "Let's call a spade a spade," instead.

F.A. wrote: »

In fairness to Thaedydal, the original fairy tale from the Grimm-collection was quite possibly and plausibly used to coherse or at least comfort young girls presented with the prospect of marrying someone they might be less than impressed by. Remember, marriage usedn't always be a bond of love...

I'd never thought of that. Very good point F.A.

Dudess

Yeah, apparently those fairy stories were often metaphors for something more serious.

Nevyn

They were the urban legends of their times, they were to scare people and be moral tales.

Dudess

Some of them were very gothic. I remember one story in my fairytale book which scared me sh1tless. It was called Bluebeard and about this dude who kept the severed heads of his many ex wives in a room. In the story he has just acquired a new young wife, who goes exploring in his castle while he is away travelling somewhere and she dares to enter the room he has warned her not to enter. Of course he arrives home earlier than either expected, only to find her in the forbidden room. Can't remember what happens after that - presume he tries to butcher her but she escapes, and then he gets horribly decapitated.

I was six...

Scarinae

A lot of those fairytales have been quite sanitised for modern audiences! In the original version of the Little Mermaid, she does exchange her voice for legs, but every step she takes she feels as if knives are stabbing into her feet. Despite her beauty and wonderful dancing, the prince goes ahead and marries another woman (not the witch) The mermaid's sisters cut off their hair and sell it to the witch in exchange for a knife, which they give the mermaid, telling her that if she stabs the prince and his new bride to death before the sunrise she will become a mermaid again. However she loves the prince so refuses to do it, and lets herself die as the sun rises, flinging herself into the sea as her body turns into foam. Then she becomes a spirit who does good deeds, and is told that if she is good for 300 years she will get an immortal soul.

That was a very interesting video, however I think their inclusion of clips from Beauty and the Beast slightly missed the point. They show Gaston as an example of masculinity, but my impression from that film is that we're supposed to laugh at him. Even though he is strong, muscular, covered in hair, a hunter etc, he is an idiot and Belle can see that. She has higher aspirations than being his 'little wife' doing the cooking and the cleaning for him. She is smart, likes reading books, and aspires to better things in life than living in her small-minded provincial village. However, all the clips in that video that are from Beauty and the Beast show Gaston, even though he's supposed to be an object of mockery

Black Swan

An XXX-rated frog that's PC?

Drift

Fishie wrote: »

A lot of those fairytales have been quite sanitised for modern audiences! In the original version of the Little Mermaid, she does exchange her voice for legs, but every step she takes she feels as if knives are stabbing into her feet. Despite her beauty and wonderful dancing, the prince goes ahead and marries another woman (not the witch) The mermaid's sisters cut off their hair and sell it to the witch in exchange for a knife, which they give the mermaid, telling her that if she stabs the prince and his new bride to death before the sunrise she will become a mermaid again. However she loves the prince so refuses to do it, and lets herself die as the sun rises, flinging herself into the sea as her body turns into foam. Then she becomes a spirit who does good deeds, and is told that if she is good for 300 years she will get an immortal soul.

Put that on your TV show Mr. Disney man!

Sounds like a decent story Fishie, thanks for enlightening us.

WindSock

That youtube clip was a bit naff, to be honest. For every male stereotype shown, I could show counter images of female dominence and strength, possibly from the same movie, but it is more prevalent in the more recent and 'pc' movies.



Anyways, screw the Disney princesses. Disney wicked women ftw!

John Mason

OMG - they are cartoons. Children dont see the "supposed messages".


how in gods name did we survive our childhood at all.


i watched Shrek with my friends 6 year old daughter and the whole meaning of the film went completely over her head. She wanted to know why "Princess Fiona was still ugly".

Children like cartoons end off, they are not being brain washed by them.


this is complete PC bullcrap.

fruitbat

irishbird wrote: »

Children like cartoons end off, they are not being brain washed by them.


this is complete PC bullcrap.

Of course children like cartoons. But children do pick up messages suprisingly young and many things influence the way children understand and think about things, and nowadays a huge part of the transmission of values is the media.

Did anyone watch Child of our Time, an ongoing BBC documentary about a group of very different children born in 2000? The last one showed the kids when they were 7. One of the studies showed that the girls equated being fat with having no friends, being stupid and also being a bully or being mean. The only girl who thought fat girls might be nice was a little chubby.

The point of this is that kids do get messages from everything, and we need to think about and be aware of where children are getting ideas like these.

I just watched Mickey Mouse Monopoly on You-Tube - it does raise a lot of interesting points.

Dudess

They totally help to reinforce gender stereotypes which we take for granted.

Dragan

How many of you Ladies watched the Disney films and other such movies when you were growing up? How many of you had dolls and such?

Now, how many of you are in the kitchen as oppossed to work?

Storm in tea cup.

Macha

F.A. wrote: »

Remember, marriage usedn't always be a bond of love...

If you want to see this in action, go see the Duchess film. Shocking. And in the history of mankind, not that long ago.

Oh kids totally soak this stuff up. Go see a Warners Bros cartoon & they all have hidden messages & morals.

On a more blatant note, I remember when I was 7 my brother got an uber-cool Boys Handbook (blue of course) that showed him how to go camping, make a kite, little scientific experiements etc. I kept stealing it to read & he went crying to our parents. So to settle the issue, my parents got me the girl's version. It was pink. It had no mention of camping, kites or science. Instead it was full of exercises like stomach crunches and aerobics. Oh and a list of foods with their corresponding calories.

Needless to say, it gathered a lot of dust & I went back to stealing my brothers. BUT I was only 7!! Of course some of it went in. You can be intelligent as you like but when you're a kid, you just don't have the understanding or capacity to filter out the positive messages from the negative ones.

Dudess

taconnol wrote: »

On a more blatant note, I remember when I was 7 my brother got an uber-cool Boys Handbook (blue of course) that showed him how to go camping, make a kite, little scientific experiements etc. I kept stealing it to read & he went crying to our parents. So to settle the issue, my parents got me the girl's version. It was pink. It had no mention of camping, kites or science. Instead it was full of exercises like stomach crunches and aerobics. Oh and a list of foods with their corresponding calories.

Oh yeah! I had that too. Jesus, I forgot about the pages and pages of calorie counts.
If I had a euro for every time I hear the following:

Person 1: "I went to the doctor."
Person 2: "Oh yeah? What did he say?"

That's only a small example, but for me it kinda sums up the way certain assumed gender roles are just taken for granted.

Dragan

taconnol wrote: »

Needless to say, it gathered a lot of dust & I went back to stealing my brothers. BUT I was only 7!! Of course some of it went in. You can be intelligent as you like but when you're a kid, you just don't have the understanding or capacity to filter out the positive messages from the negative ones.

If it was vice versa and your brother was taking your book it would lead to people questioning his sexuality.

Kind of crazy really.

F.A.

taconnol wrote: »

If you want to see this in action, go see the Duchess film. Shocking. And in the history of mankind, not that long ago.

Oh kids totally soak this stuff up. Go see a Warners Bros cartoon & they all have hidden messages & morals.

On a more blatant note, I remember when I was 7 my brother got an uber-cool Boys Handbook (blue of course) that showed him how to go camping, make a kite, little scientific experiements etc. I kept stealing it to read & he went crying to our parents. So to settle the issue, my parents got me the girl's version. It was pink. It had no mention of camping, kites or science. Instead it was full of exercises like stomach crunches and aerobics. Oh and a list of foods with their corresponding calories.

Needless to say, it gathered a lot of dust & I went back to stealing my brothers. BUT I was only 7!! Of course some of it went in. You can be intelligent as you like but when you're a kid, you just don't have the understanding or capacity to filter out the positive messages from the negative ones.

I am not Irish and only moved here a few years ago, so when I saw these books at Eason's, I was quite appalled. Interesting to hear they must have been around for quite some time. I know my mother had some books similar to that pink one you describe, but that was in the 50s...
Btw, I can fully sympathise with wanting the blue book instead. I was always more interested in my (male) cousin's little cowboy/red indian set with horses, carriages, casinoes etc. than in my doll house. My cousin asked my mother to get me a set too, but she openly refused to. Not for her daughter, oh no...

F.A.

Dragan wrote: »

If it was vice versa and your brother was taking your book it would lead to people questioning his sexuality.

Kind of crazy really.

Funny you should say that. I had a French teacher who was quite adamant that her 9-year old son should grow up outside any gender klischees. She proudly told us that she gave him a doll's pram for his 9th birthday. Before you wonder, no, he had not asked for one... I remember the whole class went silent and exchanged looks when she told us that. I still cringe. Talk about using your children to make a point.

WindSock

All I can say is that I am glad I had older brothers and their hand-me-downs. My sister is the oldest and we are like chalk and cheese.

paperclip2

Dragan wrote: »

How many of you Ladies watched the Disney films and other such movies when you were growing up? How many of you had dolls and such?

Now, how many of you are in the kitchen as oppossed to work?

Storm in tea cup.

To a point I would agree. But when I was a nipper there wasn't as much sexualised content on TV, in magazines, books etc. I think we were somewhat free-er to take our own meanings from the fairy stories and go for maybe the moral or inspirational angle rather than the romanticised relationship one.

When these fairy stories are seen against the highly sexualised multi-media background of the world we are in today, then the other messages they contain are the ones that become easier for our kids to pick up on because they can be more sensitised to these themes.

Like the fact that the beautiful princess gets the guy.
"And they all live happily ever after".:rolleyes: Now thats the theme that needs to be taken out against the wall and shot!!

panda100

I couldnt watch the youtube link cos I have no sound on my computer today for some wierd reason. But my two cents anyway,

As female role models go the lead female characters in Disney movies are pretty horrific. Take Beauty and the beast for example, which minus the catchy tunes and teapots is pretty much a modern story of domestic violence. Belle is trapped in a house by a "monster"--he tells her he can give her everything, make her happy, but she is forcibly separated from family, friends, etc, isolated in the castle, the same way abusive husbands/boyfriends isolate the women they abuse. The film then encourages the idea that If we stick with this monster then we can change the monster into a loving and caring partner. This,of course, is one of the myths that keeps women with abusive husbands.

John Mason

Hmmm, well let me see i grew up on Disney movies and ladybird books.

Which would mean by your logical, i am a damsel in distress waiting for my prince in shining armour to come and rescue me. Well, something appears to have gone wrong along the way.


Boys and Girls are different, so what, why cant you just let make their own mind up, as they grow.

Children these days are growing up confused and undefined becuase they never had the chance to be children and live in fairy tales and wonder at the magic of the world

John Mason

panda100 wrote: »

I couldnt watch the youtube link cos I have no sound on my computer today for some wierd reason. But my two cents anyway,

As female role models go the lead female characters in Disney movies are pretty horrific. Take Beauty and the beast for example, which minus the catchy tunes and teapots is pretty much a modern story of domestic violence. Belle is trapped in a house by a "monster"--he tells her he can give her everything, make her happy, but she is forcibly separated from family, friends, etc, isolated in the castle, the same way abusive husbands/boyfriends isolate the women they abuse. The film then encourages the idea that If we stick with this monster then we can change the monster into a loving and caring partner. This,of course, is one of the myths that keeps women with abusive husbands.

OMG are you for real?:eek:

I am 33 years of age and i have never seen taht in that the fairy tale. the book is about the reason the beast is a monster is because everyone treated him like a monster becuase of his looks but the beauty can see past that and see only the good inside, so therefore he is beautiful to her

well thats what i was thought the book meant when i was growing when did the meaning of this story change?

why are all you feminist ruining childhood fairy tales

i have to say i am totally shocked and horrified by what i am reading here :eek:

g'em

irishbird wrote: »

why are all you feminist ruining childhood fairy tales

i have to say i am totally shocked and horrified by what i am reading here :eek:

Even more shocking for me is that I agree with IB... I kid, I kid irishbird...

There are some seriously skewed takes on the meaning of these fairytales here - surely the moral of Beauty and the Beast is to see beyond the aesthetic and appreciate the person inside? Likewise with the Princess and the Frog? Or is that a made-up moral from Disney Corp. too?

WindSock

The only time I found double meanings in a Disney film was when I was stoned off my head watching Monsters Inc. I cant even remember what the meanings were now, but I'm sure they were terribly insightful at the time.

paperclip2

irishbird wrote: »

OMG are you for real?:eek:

I am 33 years of age and i have never seen taht in that the fairy tale. the book is about the reason the beast is a monster is because everyone treated him like a monster becuase of his looks but the beauty can see past that and see only the good inside, so therefore he is beautiful to her

well thats what i was thought the book meant when i was growing when did the meaning of this story change?

why are all you feminist ruining childhood fairy tales

i have to say i am totally shocked and horrified by what i am reading here :eek:

If you want to be freaked out read the original tales by Hans Christian Andersen. The Snow Queen scared the bejasus out of me for years for some reason. I think it was the casual knife violence. I didn't find the the Brothers Grimm to be the most General Cert either.:D

John Mason

paperclip2 wrote: »

If you want to be freaked out read the original tales by Hans Christian Andersen. The Snow Queen scared the bejasus out of me for years for some reason. I think it was the casual knife violence. I didn't find the the Brothers Grimm to be the most General Cert either.:D

i love the brothers grimm, but this thread is way more scary.

People, please read these stories with childrens eyes and childrens brain, no cynical, twisted adult brains

Red Hand

g'em wrote: »

Even more shocking for me is that I agree with IB... I kid, I kid irishbird...

There are some seriously skewed takes on the meaning of these fairytales here - surely the moral of Beauty and the Beast is to see beyond the aesthetic and appreciate the person inside? Likewise with the Princess and the Frog? Or is that a made-up moral from Disney Corp. too?

I agree. Next we will have a Jungian interpretation of the Warner Bros Tom and Jerry/Roadrunner and Wile E Coyote cartoons.

People will look to any subject matter to be outraged.

panda100

irishbird wrote: »

why are all you feminist ruining childhood fairy tales

i have to say i am totally shocked and horrified by what i am reading here :eek:

What excatly are you horrified at?If the film is innocent and as sweet as you make it out to be then how could I have 'ruined' the film for you?

Everything is viewed by differnt people in differnt ways and while at face value Disney is seen as warmherated fluff there is serious gener based undertones,which shapes how we view feminity and masculinity in later life. Everything we are subjected to in childhood seeps into our subconciouss and like it or not the Beast treated Belle as a prisoner,throws mirrors at her,verbally abuses her while she just stands there and takes it . What sort of role model is this for young children?
Of course children should use their imaginations and stay in the world of wizards and magicians for as long as they can but they can do this while not being fed sterotypical and damaging gender roles.

Im sorry If I've ruined the film for you but Ive just outlined the plot as I and other saw it,I havent altered what actully happens in the film. In real life these types of ugly beasts very very rarely change into loving handsome princes.,but from a young age women are being fed that they can.

Dragan

g'em wrote: »

Even more shocking for me is that I agree with IB... I kid, I kid irishbird...

There are some seriously skewed takes on the meaning of these fairytales here - surely the moral of Beauty and the Beast is to see beyond the aesthetic and appreciate the person inside? Likewise with the Princess and the Frog? Or is that a made-up moral from Disney Corp. too?

The moral of any story can be taken and twisted to suit a person needs with very little back up. We were all taught to do this for the English Leaving Cert.:)

Personally, i find it funny that the people who complain about how Disney "portray women" seem to have no issue with the way they "portray men".

I mean, if girls are being told to stay with abusive husbands then surely boys are being told to beat their wifes?

If such messages can make a woman into the type of person who will stay with someone who mistreats her, and this is bad and she is to be pitied, then where is the pity for the men who have been brainwashed into beating their wives?

These poor men, who put for the horror of Disney would have grown up to be loving husbands.

Hopefully i have created a ridiculous enough scenario here for people to see what i mean.

Red Hand

irishbird wrote: »

i love the brothers grimm, but this thread is way more scary.

People, please read these stories with childrens eyes and childrens brain, no cynical, twisted adult brains

Such tales tend to be blatent in their morals. The Frog Prince...moral=look beyond appearances, you might be surprised.

But then again, in the original form of the Brothers Grimm I read, you get tales like "The Jew in the thorns". And it is just as blatent as the Frog Prince's message, though we'd see it as anti-semetic today.

Nevyn

Dragan if you watched the second clip it deals with how men are portayed,
I have a daughter and a son and so worry about what messeages are being fed to both of them.

WindSock

And my response to how men are portrayed in that clip:

John Mason

panda100 wrote: »

What excatly are you horrified at?If the film is innocent and as sweet as you make it out to be then how could I have 'ruined' the film for you?

Everything is viewed by differnt people in differnt ways and while at face value Disney is seen as warmherated fluff there is serious gener based undertones,which shapes how we view feminity and masculinity in later life. Everything we are subjected to in childhood seeps into our subconciouss and like it or not the Beast treated Belle as a prisoner,throws mirrors at her,verbally abuses her while she just stands there and takes it . What sort of role model is this for young children?
Of course children should use their imaginations and stay in the world of wizards and magicians for as long as they can but they can do this while not being fed sterotypical and damaging gender roles.

Im sorry If I've ruined the film for you but Ive just outlined the plot as I and other saw it,I havent altered what actully happens in the film. In real life these types of ugly beasts very very rarely change into loving handsome princes.,but from a young age women are being fed that they can.

What, its a childrens book/movie, how have you ruined it for me?

I am not some cynical, bitter twisted individual, i will still read the story to the kids and show them the movie.

i actually really feel sorry for you, that you see evil and hatred in simple things that give pleasure to millions of children and adults.

Dragan

Thaedydal wrote: »

Dragan if you watched the second clip it deals with how men are portayed,
I have a daughter and a son and so worry about what messeages are being fed to both of them.

I think the real issue here is that people are FAR to willing to hand responsibility for things to others.

This is not going to be a popular view but we all make our own choices. Somethings are clearly "good" and somethings are clearly "bad". This is not difficult. If I turn around and beat the **** out of a girl I am seeing then who is to blame?

That’s a serious question and I want people to think about it very carefully. Having grown up in the same Ireland as most of you for the last 27 years, having been exposed to similar things and events, similar books and films, similar political and economical variables.

So, who is responsible?

Me?
Her?
Disney?

The answer is me, plain and simple. Anyone who says anything else is copping out and buying in to a big pile of bull**** because it's easier to find deeper means and causes for society ills than to just say the kind of guy who beats his wife is a **** who should be treated as such. The the people who pray on the weak and innocent need to put down, removed from our society.

Bleeding hearts help no one and sometimes the only thing that needs to be thought about to any major dept is exactly what to do with the assholes who get away with this **** because the majority of people are too ****ing scared to pull their ****ing card.

Nevyn

Ever stop to think irishbird that the reason women in general are os conflicted to the point you can stand them is that they are fed this type of glittery clap trap as children instead of something which fosters independance and respect ?

Dragan I do take responsiblity for what I allow my children to read, watch and what games they play. I monitor it and will sit with them and have dicussions on what they are watchin and get them to think and question what they see in movies and cartoons.

The view of people on how the world is and how they are meant to fit in it starts at a very young age and is influence by what they watch.

I have say I grudgingly watched enchanted with my daughter, it was what she wanted to do for her and I time, turns out the movie clearly draws a line between what is ok in the 'princess' world and that the real world is different, which I was greatful for.