Potential new NCT test criteria

Owen

According to a mammoth 1 inch long article in today's examiner, the NCT test centres contracts are up for renegotiation, and two items being added to the test will examine the level of noise cars produce (Thank god!), and the level of window tints.

About time!

smash

What do you mean 'About time!'

It's a load of rubbish... do you think that someone in a Lamborghini Gallardo or Ferrari 360 is going to get their standard factory exhaust replaced with silencers because the NCT says "it's too loud" or someone in a Q7 is going to get their windows replaced because they're told "it's too dark"

Owen

steve06 wrote: »

It's a load of rubbish... do you think that someone in a Lamborghini Gallardo or Ferrari 360 is going to get their standard factory exhaust replaced with silencers because the NCT says "it's too loud"

Nowhere does it say that OEM equipment will be limited. So Ferraris, Lambo's Astons, etc will not be affected by this. This is a test purely for the muppets in 1.4 Corollas with ridiculous exhausts.

steve06 wrote: »

or someone in a Q7 is going to get their windows replaced because they're told "it's too dark"

Again, if it's OEM equipment, there won't be an issue. In every other European country, there is a legal tint limit, and the manufacturers comply with this, so if it's original tints fitted by the manufacturer, or aftermarket tints fitted that have the same grade of opacity as the OEM ones there won't be an issue. It's more targetted at the type of person who tints their front side windows with an 80% tint.

L1011

I doubt any factory exhausts or window tints are beyond what the NCT rules would allow if modified - simply because they car would not meet the requirements to be sold here at all in that case!

daveharnett

ned78 wrote: »

According to a mammoth 1 inch long article in today's examiner, the NCT test centres contracts are up for renegotiation, and two items being added to the test will examine the level of noise cars produce (Thank god!), and the level of window tints.

About time!

Huzzah! The boy racer brigade will have to use OEM exhausts. For one day every two years.

Owen

Well, most won't have the original exhausts, so they'll have to go and buy them again, but I suppose the underlying story here is that there will for the first time in Ireland, be a check for noise levels, which could in theory then be rolled out to the Gards to conduct tests on cars at checkpoints, etc.

This does happen in other countries, and is very enforceable - but I doubt we have the resources to manage it.

VH

gardai would need to follow up with enforcement alright

tinted windows - why are these sooo popular with east europeans? have they got something to hide?

SV

Ridiculous.

Although I'm looking forward to all those supercars sounding like micras! nice one.

:rolleyes:

voxpop

Thought the NCT was for safety, to ensure that all cars on the road are road worthy. How noise comes into this equation is beyond me

kayos

Meh never liked after market tints....

As for exhausts well mine is after market but quieter than the OEM. Although I totally agree about the aftermarket noise box's that some put on their cars. Why dear lord why! Its a 1.4 Civic and they stick a exhaust bigger than you would on a supra/gtr/something with a bit of poke. I had to borrow a house mates car once that had one of those exhausts and sweet jesus I was hiding in case any one saw me drive it.

Tints can be a safety issue so ya add them, noisy exhausts well they are noise polution so ya add them too.

Owen

Well, the MOT in the UK is comparable to our NCT, and it tests vehicles for conformity. There are noise limits for cars, and if you exceed them, you are breaking the law. They are exceptionally anti-social.

For the record, my car has a performance exhaust on it as part of an entire engine upgrade factory kit. It's OEM though, so it's completely road legal and TUV approved for noise levels. So I'm not anti performance exhaust, just anti stupid exhausts on cars that don't need them.

siralfalot

is there a legal db level requirement at the moment?

daveharnett

daveharnett wrote: »

Huzzah! The boy racer brigade will have to use OEM exhausts. For one day every two years.

Darragh29

ned78 wrote: »

According to a mammoth 1 inch long article in today's examiner, the NCT test centres contracts are up for renegotiation, and two items being added to the test will examine the level of noise cars produce (Thank god!), and the level of window tints.

About time!

+1, where I live, some boy racers have exhausts fitted that can set off house alarms on the road I live on. Why people tint windows in the first place is beyond me, what's the purpose of this???

Darragh29

ned78 wrote: »

Well, the MOT in the UK is comparable to our NCT, and it tests vehicles for conformity. There are noise limits for cars, and if you exceed them, you are breaking the law. They are exceptionally anti-social.

For the record, my car has a performance exhaust on it as part of an entire engine upgrade factory kit. It's OEM though, so it's completely road legal and TUV approved for noise levels. So I'm not anti performance exhaust, just anti stupid exhausts on cars that don't need them.

We've had a crazy situation in this country in the last number of years where vehicle manufacturers had to comply with a strict EU vehicle noise emission legislation in order to sell vehicles in Europe and then we can have some sc*mbag put something onto his car to make it sound louder than an F16 landing outside your house. Stupid, stupid, stupid...

smash

ned78 wrote: »

Nowhere does it say that OEM equipment will be limited. So Ferraris, Lambo's Astons, etc will not be affected by this. This is a test purely for the muppets in 1.4 Corollas with ridiculous exhausts.

No, if it's a noise level test then it wont matter if it's standard or modified... it will be "if it's above a certain noise level" - it'll never work!

And what really annoys me is the fact that blokes with big harleys will get away with it, and they're really bloody loud!

Owen

steve06 wrote: »

No, if it's a noise level test then it wont matter if it's standard or modified... it will be "if it's above a certain noise level" - it'll never work!

You don't understand how this will work. The NCT test centre will be provided with a noise level, by the manufacturers, for every car. They'll have a ready reckoner chart of noise levels. So a Ferrari which is loud by default will pass the test. An M3 which is loud by default, will pass the test. A 1.1 Saxo with a back box will not.

Climate Expert

So why discriminate between aftermarket and original fittings? If a lambo is too loud then they should be banned.
This is really social discrimination assuming its implemented.

Owen

No it's not. Cars are permitted, based on capacity, to produce a certain level of noise at a certain RPM. Every car is subject to this, and it makes life tough for the manufacturers to comply, but they do, and it works fine.

I don't get all the hostility here. This is a system that is actually working well in every other country in Europe. Yet as soon as it's mentioned here in Ireland the usual responses are provoked "It's a stupid system" "It'll never work". Why are people on this forum so negative?

Wossack

voxpop wrote: »

Thought the NCT was for safety, to ensure that all cars on the road are road worthy. How noise comes into this equation is beyond me

if the nct was primarily concerned with safety, it'd be free

Darragh29

Wossack wrote: »

if the nct was primarily concerned with safety, it'd be free

The NCT I think is one of the best projects to emerge from the motor industry I think. It is relatively fair and in many respects, it is transparent. Ok, its not perfect but I don't think a perfect solution is actually possible. Around this time of year, when days get shorter and you see how many people are driving around with defective headlamps, you have to wonder why every car does not have to do an NCT once a year.

At 49 Euro, what garage would conduct the same series of tests on your car, written report, state of the art equipment, for 49 Euro???

Anan1

Wossack wrote: »

if the nct was primarily concerned with safety, it'd be free

smash

Jim Higgins spoke on Matt Cooper today about this proposal and the guy didn't have a clue... he spoke about boy racers and modified exhausts and tyres and then made no sense by going off on a rant when he couldn't back himself up! http://www.radioireland.ie/lastword/1192008-17.wmv

Senna

there was an article in one of the local papers that mentioned these new nct criteria, the also stated tyre sizes would be checked. What does this mean, will cars have to have tyres no wider than the factory tyres? or just within a safe margin?

Matt Simis

Darragh29 wrote: »

Why people tint windows in the first place is beyond me, what's the purpose of this???

I have my Phaeton's windows smoked. It looks great (and OEM) and gives excellent viability from the inside by reducing glare (as Im somewhat photo sensitive this is a great boon on days I forget sunglasses) but with minimal darkening effect. It looks darker from the outside, but Ive had less observant people in the car ask "I thought you were getting the windows tinted?".

Our Allroad has much darker smoked tints on the rear as its an estate and the boot would be otherwise viable, which is a security risk.
They were -expensive- "tint" jobs (about a grand for the 2 cars, by Pentagon), but it looks OEM Plus, just the way I like it. All tinting will generally make windows more difficult to break too (from the outside).

The fact you have to ask "whats the purpose of tints" is a painful reminder how far from a motoring enthusiasts forum this is.

DannyBuoy

steve06 wrote: »

What do you mean 'About time!'

It's a load of rubbish... do you think that someone in a Lamborghini Gallardo or Ferrari 360 is going to get their standard factory exhaust replaced with silencers because the NCT says "it's too loud" or someone in a Q7 is going to get their windows replaced because they're told "it's too dark"

Its not a load of rubbish, maybe someone in one of the super cars you mentioned wont be affected but the idiot who drives outside my house waking my 2 year old daughter at 11.30 at night with his car roaring like it had no exhaust will be affected thankfully.

Wolverine_1999

Yay! Now can someone tell the muppet who flies around the roundabout outside my house from time to time to either build a track or move to Germany..

Traumadoc

I cannot understand the issue with tinted windows ( I do not have them myself) but surely you should ban sunglasses or perhaps beards also. If you are going after noise perhaps you should also look at HGVs and harley-davidson motorbikes or anything with a 2 stroke engine.

Seth Brundle

siralfalot wrote: »

is there a legal db level requirement at the moment?

To my knowledge there is no specific law on noise levels or on window tints.
You cannot enforce a non existent law!
Ivor "I got my house painted for free" Callely proposed making some changes here but resigned his cabinet post before anything was done.

Senna wrote: »

there was an article in one of the local papers that mentioned these new nct criteria, the also stated tyre sizes would be checked. What does this mean, will cars have to have tyres no wider than the factory tyres? or just within a safe margin?

IIRC tyre sizes are checked - to ensure that tyres are the same size on each axle.

daveharnett

steve06 wrote: »

No, if it's a noise level test then it wont matter if it's standard or modified... it will be "if it's above a certain noise level" - it'll never work!

Correct me if i'm wrong, but don't most modern ferraris, astons etc have a butterfly valve in the exhaust to keep noise down when they are being driven normally?

Matt Simis

daveharnett wrote: »

Correct me if i'm wrong, but don't most modern ferraris, astons etc have a butterfly valve in the exhaust to keep noise down when they are being driven normally?

Yeah they do. You also dont have to even go that exotic, RS(4/6)s and I assume M(3/5)s have them too. They give our a nice grunty burble at idle instead of that stupid droning from Clio + backbox.

kayos

Its simple sports cars sound good at any speed but when been driven around town they dont wake the whole place, they rumble not roar. A crappy POS with a drain pipe for an exhaust wakes people at any speed.

smash

daveharnett wrote: »

Correct me if i'm wrong, but don't most modern ferraris, astons etc have a butterfly valve in the exhaust to keep noise down when they are being driven normally?

yea but a lot of owners who are enthusiasts will replace them with a tubi sports exhaust and that's not cheap to replace. The same way my current car has stainless front pipes, a Ragonzza mid-section and a custom built Powerflow rear section... not cheap to replace!

Flyer1

And then the greens will rattle on about a waste of metals with all these new exhausts being required .

To be honest, there are very few people nowadays who put big exhausts on their cars, there's more money going in to the electronic side of things, mapping etc.

blackbox

ned78 wrote: »

Well, most won't have the original exhausts, so they'll have to go and buy them again, but I suppose the underlying story here is that there will for the first time in Ireland, be a check for noise levels

business opportunity: exhaust hire at daily rates.

All popular makes:

honda civic,
toyota starlet
citroen saxo
opel corsa

siralfalot

kbannon wrote: »

To my knowledge there is no specific law on noise levels or on window tints.
You cannot enforce a non existent law!

as I expected

the new local garda sargent is having a clamp down on loud exhausts, my coupe has a turbo back custom stainless steel system, and it sounds fantastic to my mind, a lovely deep burble, if he stops me and can't produce the legislation and a db meter, he can feck right off, motorbikes and artic lorries are louder.

the problem is not exhausts, its the muppet mentality, do they really think that taking away the modified pipes is going to stop muppets from zooming around housing estates at 7000rpm?

dcGT

steve06 wrote: »

Jim Higgins spoke on Matt Cooper today about this proposal and the guy didn't have a clue... he spoke about boy racers and modified exhausts and tyres and then made no sense by going off on a rant when he couldn't back himself up! http://www.radioireland.ie/lastword/1192008-17.wmv

+1
His interview was rediculous; no specifics, no facts, no impartiality, just a random spew of abuse about boy racers being dangerous with their strange tires and loud exhausts and such. He said the Road Safety Authority were in agreement. I agree with the notion on putting limits on loudness of exhausts, if implemented and enforced in a transparent, measurable & reasonable way, but I fail to see what the loudness of an exhaust has to do with road safety. It's almost as though it's implied that loud exhaust = dangerous driver. Could the RSA have the 'tar brush' out on this one?
As for the window tints, hmmm, remember our friend Ivor Callely's crusade? Classic.

DC.

Owen

steve06 wrote: »

yea but a lot of owners who are enthusiasts will replace them with a tubi sports exhaust and that's not cheap to replace.

I seriously doubt that anyone who owns a piece of motoring exotica would go throwing on aftermarket exhausts. I have a few friends with some impressive toys, and none will exchange factory OEM parts for non standard - they want to keep the pedigree of the car.

siralfalot

ned78 wrote: »

I seriously doubt that anyone who owns a piece of motoring exotica would go throwing on aftermarket exhausts. I have a few friends with some impressive toys, and none will exchange factory OEM parts for non standard - they want to keep the pedigree of the car.

off the top of my head I know 2 Ferrari owners who have Tubi exhaust systems, just because he would have more money than others doesn't mean an enthusiast would not want to improve on what is standard.

Tubi is one of the most exclusive aftermarket exhaust system makers there is

Owen

Well, if the Tubi exhaust is noiser than an OEM version, the same will apply to them so come NCT time, non standard exhaust that makes more noise than is documented than the standard factory options = fail. Proper order.

It's possible for exhaust manufacturers to design systems that liberate plenty of power, provide back pressure to the engine, and still remain within the dB range of the original OEM equipment.

smash

I can also think of 3 Ferrari owners with Tubi exhausts on their cars. I can also think of quite a few other cars, mainly Lotus Elise's with stage 2 exhausts on them.

siralfalot

so NCT are going to have a specific db rating for each specific model of each car from each manufacturer, that is currently on the market, and has been on the market in the last 20 years?

bahahahahahahahhhaaaaaaa!!!!!!

eh seriously, this is Ireland, that'll take years to do!!

tackle the muppets, then worry about noise

smash

true, and even if they got the spec, they'd get it from the Irish distributors which means they'd have no info on imports!

BobTheBeat

Senna wrote: »

there was an article in one of the local papers that mentioned these new nct criteria, the also stated tyre sizes would be checked. What does this mean, will cars have to have tyres no wider than the factory tyres? or just within a safe margin?

+1 this one is going to prove interesting. It may in fact result in aftermarket wheels being banned.
I heard Jim Higgins interview on Matt Cooper. I've never in my life witnessed such drivel come from somebodys mouth. He must have made about 10 different accusations as regards 'What these Boy Racers are doing', even implying that that guards were turning a blind eye to them while the regular joe soap was getting pulled for doing 50 in a 40 zone. The man is a complete ****ing idiot, and I am amazed that he made it into a position of real power.

slimjimmc

siralfalot wrote: »

so NCT are going to have a specific db rating for each specific model of each car from each manufacturer, that is currently on the market, and has been on the market in the last 20 years?

bahahahahahahahhhaaaaaaa!!!!!!

eh seriously, this is Ireland, that'll take years to do!!

Why should it ? The VRT dudes do it with CO2 ratings and make it up to the importer to get manuf specs for non-listed vehicles.

groupb

Matt Simis wrote: »

I have my Phaeton's windows smoked. It looks great (and OEM) and gives excellent viability from the inside by reducing glare (as Im somewhat photo sensitive this is a great boon on days I forget sunglasses) but with minimal darkening effect. It looks darker from the outside, but Ive had less observant people in the car ask "I thought you were getting the windows tinted?".

Our Allroad has much darker smoked tints on the rear as its an estate and the boot would be otherwise viable, which is a security risk.
They were -expensive- "tint" jobs (about a grand for the 2 cars, by Pentagon), but it looks OEM Plus, just the way I like it. All tinting will generally make windows more difficult to break too (from the outside).

The fact you have to ask "whats the purpose of tints" is a painful reminder how far from a motoring enthusiasts forum this is.

Because the first thing a motoring enthuasist needs to do on getting his new car is to get the windows tinted. And the point you make about the tint increasing the windows strength. I think the shop you got your tints in must have had big (tinted?) windows although I'm not to sure I'd like to be seen in an oversized passat either. :cool:

Gypo

steve06 wrote: »

Jim Higgins spoke on Matt Cooper today about this proposal and the guy didn't have a clue... he spoke about boy racers and modified exhausts and tyres and then made no sense by going off on a rant when he couldn't back himself up! http://www.radioireland.ie/lastword/1192008-17.wmv

I've just got around to listening to this clown this evening, I'm not sure if Irish motorists have a lot or nothing to worry about!

towel401

some people just don't like to be seen driving. they think it's a private thing and nobody should be able to look at them while they do it. I don't see anything wrong with that and if i had a load of cash laying around i'd get tinted windows too.

if you have something to hide, thats fine too. some of them might be criminals, but not all criminals are bad and might not live up to the stereotypical scumbag image of a criminal you have in your mind. tinting your windows has got to be the oldest trick in the book so it's likely to get you more attention from the gards and the like who have pre-concieved ideas about people with tinted windows.

Traumadoc

Should there be a minimum noise also? I was nearly hit by a greeny in his prius in a car park, did not hear it.

towel401

Traumadoc wrote: »

Should there be a minimum noise also? I was nearly hit by a greeny in his prius in a car park, did not hear it.

no. you shouldn't have to rely on the sound. expect to see a lot more of these in the next few years with the cost of petrol going up so much. there's a few decent electric cars out there but most are too expensive and the batteries wear down a bit fast

how did you know it was a greeny?

L1011

towel401 wrote: »

how did you know it was a greeny?

Because nobody else buys a Toyota Smug considering nearly every diesel on the market, and any small PSA or Fiat petrol has better MPG than it?

Prius's these days are bought solely by wannabe Green Party members with no clue about cars, basically.