War Party!

Black Swan

4 trillion reasons why not to elect the Republican Party to the Oval Office in November! Republican presidential candidate McCain will not substantially change the George W. Bush Era fiscal policies, given that he has voted 90% of the time in support of policies favoured by George W. Bush during the past 7.5 years.

George W. Bush during the 2000 and 2004 presidential elections claimed that there would be fiscal responsibility if he was elected, and has the presidential veto power to back it up. Yet, the fiscal debt during the George W. Bush Era was four (4) times that of the Clinton Era, and may be more before the presidency is surrendered in January 2009 to whomever wins in November 2008. The numbers below supplied by the US Treasury don't lie, only politicians do!

The George W. Bush Era has added about 4 trillion dollars to the federal deficit, and will more than likely add more before leaving office January 2009. In comparison, the Clinton Era added only about 1 trillion in debt during 8 years of office. See below figures provided by the US Treasury

Yesterday’s US federal deficit:

09/09/08 9,692,762,945,925.31

Historical Debt Outstanding – Annual:

Date Dollar Amount (USD)

09/30/2007 9,007,653,372,262.48
09/30/2006 8,506,973,899,215.23
09/30/2005 7,932,709,661,723.50
09/30/2004 7,379,052,696,330.32
09/30/2003 6,783,231,062,743.62
09/30/2002 6,228,235,965,597.16
09/30/2001 5,807,463,412,200.06
09/30/2000 5,674,178,209,886.86
09/30/1999 5,656,270,901,615.43
09/30/1998 5,526,193,008,897.62
09/30/1997 5,413,146,011,397.34
09/30/1996 5,224,810,939,135.73
09/29/1995 4,973,982,900,709.39
09/30/1994 4,692,749,910,013.32
09/30/1993 4,411,488,883,139.38
09/30/1992 4,064,620,655,521.66

** Clinton was elected November 1992 and took office January 1993. George Bush was elected November 2000 and took office January 2001.

Pocono Joe

War Party???

September 11, 2001 did not start out like any other day for me. The prior evening I received a call from my brother informing me that he was picking up our "odd" uncle at JFK airport in NYC the next day -- 9/11. I joked with my brother that evening that something terrible is going to happen somewhere in the world. You see, my uncle who came to live with us from Galway, Ireland when I was a toddler and he was a young boy, was suspected by my family to be either a spy or worked for the CIA for many years. After a stint in the US military we rarely heard from him. Oddly, whenever we did receive a call from him, he mysteriously was in some part of the world where some nasty international events were either happening or would happen within the next few days (South America, Afghanistan, Iran, Indonesia, etc, etc).

I received a call the morning of 9/11 from my brother informing me that a plane just few into one of the World Trade Center towers. He wondered if it would cause flights to be cancelled and whether our uncle would even be able to come in that day. As we were speaking another plane flew into the second tower. I immediately got off the phone and went into the president of our company's office because his daughter, a friend of mine, worked in the World Trade Center. As we were speaking his wife called. She was talking to their daughter after the first plane hit, and during the conversation heard a loud noise (the second plane hitting) and suddenly the phone line when dead. Much of the rest of the day was spent watching the television and listening to the local radio channel in anger, fear, and the sudden realization that we have been in a war with terrorists... we just didn't quite know until now. And so began the War on Terror, by the so-called War Party.

Mid morning our local hospital was designated to handle the overflow of victims from the attacks in NYC and were calling for blood donations. I organized people willing to donate blood in our company and called the hospital in the afternoon telling them we had a number of individuals willing to give blood for the victims. I will never forget the hospital official telling me "thank you, but that won't be necessary... there aren't any survivors."

Late in the day I found out my friend (the daughter of the president of our company) was safe and sound. When the second plane hit the WTC, there was a lot of confusion. They were being told to stay put, and that it was the safest place to be. She decided otherwise, and grabbed the hand of a pregnant woman, who didn't want to leave. She forced her to accompany her out of the building. When they got to the exit, building security were trying to keep people from leaving the building. They forced their way past security and got out of the building making their way down to the ferries to escape the city.

She now works with me. She cannot work in NYC anymore. But she is not in today 9/11, as she does not work on this day. To this day she cannot get out of her mind the vision of people jumping from 80+ stories up, and the horrible sound (around her as she was running from the building) that a human body makes hitting the pavement from so far up.

Yes our debt is high. Some parts I understand (9/11, The War on Terror, Hurricane Katrina), others I do not. Although I like GWB, I dislike many of the spending habits he allowed occur during his administration. During and after a war and other challenges our country has had high debt, but we tend to work out of it. It is my hopes that our next president can work to balance our budget. Both McCain and Obama's resulting tax plan effects are somewhat similar. It will all come down to "SPENDING" to see what will happen to national debt. I see Obama has huge spending proposals, and McCain is declaring war on wasteful spending. Right now I plan on voting for the guy who is promising to curtail wasteful spending and "name names" of those who oppose it. Although I don't know how much McCain can get done with a Democratic Tax & Spend Congress, I know he will take up the good fight - because that's what John McCain, the maverick, does.

brianthebard

WTF is your point joe, that that building was worth 4 trillion dollars? That the 3000 odd people that died on 9/11 are worth killing hundreds of thousands of Afghans and Iraqis, not to mention over 4,500 of your own troops, despite the fact that just about every single one of those Iraqis and Afghans were not terrorists, were not sponsors of terror, did not have a thing to do with the WTC incident?

jhegarty

You do all know George Bush isn't running this time?

irish_bob

brianthebard wrote: »

WTF is your point joe, that that building was worth 4 trillion dollars? That the 3000 odd people that died on 9/11 are worth killing hundreds of thousands of Afghans and Iraqis, not to mention over 4,500 of your own troops, despite the fact that just about every single one of those Iraqis and Afghans were not terrorists, were not sponsors of terror, did not have a thing to do with the WTC incident?

wars are about showing who,s boss , all empires start wars to remain on top , the britts done it , whoever is top dog after the usa will be no different , 9-11 was an attempt to knock america off its pedastil

Sand

Whats the debt as a percentage of GDP out of curiousity? The US can service 4 trillion dollars of debt a little better than Mozambique can afterall?

brianthebard

irish_bob wrote: »

wars are about showing who,s boss , all empires start wars to remain on top , the britts done it , whoever is top dog after the usa will be no different , 9-11 was an attempt to knock america off its pedastil

Is this supposed to excuse the two wars which the US is currently engaged in?

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Black Swan

jhegarty wrote: »

You do all know George Bush isn't running this time?

Indeed, but McCain is, and he has voted for 90% of the policies endorsed by George W. Bush, so no matter what comes out of McCain's mouth during his campaign for president regarding being a Maverick or being different from Bush, the numbers don't lie, and 90% is a very high agreement figure, indeed, over 7.5 years! Secondly, his running mate Sarah Palin as Governor first endorced the funding of "The Bridge to Nowhere" in Alaska (over $300 million USD). But when the press went crazy about the tremendous waste of federal highway monies for this silly bridge, both she and Washington withdrew their support for The Bridge for Nowhere, so if this is any indication of Sarah Palin's fiscal responsibility, then the federal deficit will continue to set new record highs should she succeed the aging McCain as president.

This presidential campaign is a farce! How can anyone take McCain-Palin or Obama-Biden serious, so long as they spend all their time smearing each other with lipstick and whatnot!

Super Power? Super Joke! No one in this silly campaign looks at the numbers that relate to the important issues of the current US recession, rising unemployment, the fact that 20% of the 300 million US population is without health care insurance, the million or more family housing foreclosures, the failing banks, or the Iraq War that continues to kill people, and was justified on WMD (weapons of mass destruction) that didn't exist (and a war that McCain-Palin still support). Iraq did not attack the US, nor did they participate or render aid to the tragic 9/11 incident.

Anyone with an understanding of the Middle East or the Saddam government and OB Laden would know that there was absolutely no collaboration between the two regarding 9/11, because they represented very different religious and secular positions.

The real reason why the US is in Iraq is because of a three letter word: OIL. The oil lobby contributed millions of dollars to the former oilman George W. Bush campaign through the sneaky dodge around campaign finance laws by contributing to a PAC, and now McCain-Palin is getting millions from the oil lobby for the same reasons through a PAC: Control of Iraqi oil by occupation of Iraq by US forces. Oil corporations do not donate to campaigns because they are good US citizens interested in "peace, freedom, and the American way." They donate to political campaigns to influence government policies that would be in their favour and result in even greater profits. Ever wonder why US oil corporations have declared the highest profits in their history in the US?

The recent Denver Oil for Sex scandal is just the tip of the iceberg of corruption funded by the oil corporations, that will continue by those politicians funded by the oil lobby. Geeeeee, is it a coincidence that Sarah Palin's husband Todd works for BP Oil...now that's a Big Duh!

And like it or not, the bloody recession in the good ole USA is impacting on the Irish economy. They are dragging us with them, while they spend all their time smearing each other with lipstick and whatnot. What a craic!

axer

Pocono Joe wrote: »

Both McCain and Obama's resulting tax plan effects are somewhat similar.

Yes, McCain wants to give the biggest tax breaks to the richest whereas Obama wants to help the struggling.

Pocono Joe wrote: »

It will all come down to "SPENDING" to see what will happen to national debt. I see Obama has huge spending proposals, and McCain is declaring war on wasteful spending. Right now I plan on voting for the guy who is promising to curtail wasteful spending and "name names" of those who oppose it.

Obama sees education and infrastructure as major investments that will pay themselves off.

McCain declaring war on wasteful spending? Thats laughable. What does wasteful spending mean exactly? Are things that McCain doesn't like automatically wasteful? "Wasteful spending" is just a political catchphrase like "small town values". I would consider giving tax breaks to the already rich "wasteful spending" whereas improving the education system as important. Do you not?

Pocono Joe wrote: »

I know he will take up the good fight - because that's what John McCain, the maverick, does.

Oh ffs.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Black Swan

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I've heard this one-sided argument over and over and over like an old broken vinyl record, but no one has offered how many times McCain or other Republican or Democratic Senators have also merely answered "present" in the US Senate. Why? Because the argument is one-sided, and not original to donegalfella, but rather orchestrated by Republican Carl Rove, the ultimate spin master.

I wonder if donegalfella or other McCain-Palin advocates have actually visited the US Senate (or US House of Representatives) while in normal day-to-day sessions? Not on one of those rare occasions with some national event that has occurred like the weeks following 9/11, but when Congress is in session on normal humdrum days during the week? Well I have, and more than once. Most of the Senators (or Representatives), both Republican and Democrat, including McCain and Obama are not even "present!"

I have included criticism of both Republicans and Democrats in this post, not to appear one-sided, because frankly I think this whole presidential campaign is a complete farce, and that both the McCain-Palin and Obama-Biden platforms are a joke, considering that they are more concerned about pit bulls and pigs with lipstick, than serious issues that affect the USA and those nations they impact (like Ireland being dragged down by the US recession).

Jim_Are_Great

Pocono Joe wrote: »

I know he will take up the good fight - because that's what John McCain, the maverick, does.

Does this motive smell ulterior to anyone else?

irish_bob

Pocono Joe wrote: »

War Party???

September 11, 2001 did not start out like any other day for me. The prior evening I received a call from my brother informing me that he was picking up our "odd" uncle at JFK airport in NYC the next day -- 9/11. I joked with my brother that evening that something terrible is going to happen somewhere in the world. You see, my uncle who came to live with us from Galway, Ireland when I was a toddler and he was a young boy, was suspected by my family to be either a spy or worked for the CIA for many years. After a stint in the US military we rarely heard from him. Oddly, whenever we did receive a call from him, he mysteriously was in some part of the world where some nasty international events were either happening or would happen within the next few days (South America, Afghanistan, Iran, Indonesia, etc, etc).

I received a call the morning of 9/11 from my brother informing me that a plane just few into one of the World Trade Center towers. He wondered if it would cause flights to be cancelled and whether our uncle would even be able to come in that day. As we were speaking another plane flew into the second tower. I immediately got off the phone and went into the president of our company's office because his daughter, a friend of mine, worked in the World Trade Center. As we were speaking his wife called. She was talking to their daughter after the first plane hit, and during the conversation heard a loud noise (the second plane hitting) and suddenly the phone line when dead. Much of the rest of the day was spent watching the television and listening to the local radio channel in anger, fear, and the sudden realization that we have been in a war with terrorists... we just didn't quite know until now. And so began the War on Terror, by the so-called War Party.

Mid morning our local hospital was designated to handle the overflow of victims from the attacks in NYC and were calling for blood donations. I organized people willing to donate blood in our company and called the hospital in the afternoon telling them we had a number of individuals willing to give blood for the victims. I will never forget the hospital official telling me "thank you, but that won't be necessary... there aren't any survivors."

Late in the day I found out my friend (the daughter of the president of our company) was safe and sound. When the second plane hit the WTC, there was a lot of confusion. They were being told to stay put, and that it was the safest place to be. She decided otherwise, and grabbed the hand of a pregnant woman, who didn't want to leave. She forced her to accompany her out of the building. When they got to the exit, building security were trying to keep people from leaving the building. They forced their way past security and got out of the building making their way down to the ferries to escape the city.

She now works with me. She cannot work in NYC anymore. But she is not in today 9/11, as she does not work on this day. To this day she cannot get out of her mind the vision of people jumping from 80+ stories up, and the horrible sound (around her as she was running from the building) that a human body makes hitting the pavement from so far up.

Yes our debt is high. Some parts I understand (9/11, The War on Terror, Hurricane Katrina), others I do not. Although I like GWB, I dislike many of the spending habits he allowed occur during his administration. During and after a war and other challenges our country has had high debt, but we tend to work out of it. It is my hopes that our next president can work to balance our budget. Both McCain and Obama's resulting tax plan effects are somewhat similar. It will all come down to "SPENDING" to see what will happen to national debt. I see Obama has huge spending proposals, and McCain is declaring war on wasteful spending. Right now I plan on voting for the guy who is promising to curtail wasteful spending and "name names" of those who oppose it. Although I don't know how much McCain can get done with a Democratic Tax & Spend Congress, I know he will take up the good fight - because that's what John McCain, the maverick, does.

you say you plan to vote for mc cain because he is the guy who has declared war on wastefull spending , does a trillion dollar plus war in iraq = wastefull spending , just curious ,

Pocono Joe

Does this motive smell ulterior to anyone else?

Am I Karl Rove... NO, just an average Joe. I never hid my support for McCain, and I've admitted that I've recently signed up to help with the campaign here in my state (I just wish McCain gave "points" for parcipitating in this particular site, so unfortunately anything I post here provides me nothing in the way of any political personal gain. (Pretty good stump speech line or airwave commercial line though, don't you think?)

you say you plan to vote for mc cain because he is the guy who has declared war on wastefull spending , does a trillion dollar plus war in iraq = wastefull spending , just curious ,

No. I feel a democraticly elected stable government in the middle east, that is amicable towards the US is worth it. The war in Iraq is winding down as more and more providence's are handed over the to Iraqis. Most recognize this as the nation stabilizes. Even the Iraqi government has indicated US military involvement will be scaled down over the next few years. What I do consider wasteful spending is providing aid and defense for certain ungrateful, anti-American European nations who relish in economic growth at our expense. Maybe its time they consider footing their own bill (I guess that goes against the classic neo-con thinking).

axer

Pocono Joe wrote: »

The war in Iraq is winding down as more and more providence's are handed over the to Iraqis. Most recognize this as the nation stabilizes. Even the Iraqi government has indicated US military involvement will be scaled down over the next few years. What I do consider wasteful spending is providing aid and defense for certain ungrateful, anti-American European nations who relish in economic growth at our expense. Maybe its time they consider footing their own bill (I guess that goes against the classic neo-con thinking).

You been watching that anti-european news station by any chance? :pac:

irish_bob

Pocono Joe wrote: »

Am I Karl Rove... NO, just an average Joe. I never hid my support for McCain, and I've admitted that I've recently signed up to help with the campaign here in my state (I just wish McCain gave "points" for parcipitating in this particular site, so unfortunately anything I post here provides me nothing in the way of any political personal gain. (Pretty good stump speech line or airwave commercial line though, don't you think?)


No. I feel a democraticly elected stable government in the middle east, that is amicable towards the US is worth it. The war in Iraq is winding down as more and more providence's are handed over the to Iraqis. Most recognize this as the nation stabilizes. Even the Iraqi government has indicated US military involvement will be scaled down over the next few years. What I do consider wasteful spending is providing aid and defense for certain ungrateful, anti-American European nations who relish in economic growth at our expense. Maybe its time they consider footing their own bill (I guess that goes against the classic neo-con thinking).

could you possibly define anti americanism , i mean is it just commentators on the likes of the bbc who criticise president bush or president chirac in 2003 refusing to lend support to the invasion of iraq
what can one do to ensure they are not anti american , do they simply get in line behind what uncle same proposes to do on every issue , help me out here

Pocono Joe

irish_bob wrote: »

could you possibly define anti americanism , i mean is it just commentators on the likes of the bbc who criticise president bush or president chirac in 2003 refusing to lend support to the invasion of iraq
what can one do to ensure they are not anti american , do they simply get in line behind what uncle same proposes to do on every issue , help me out here

Yes Schroeder and Chirac remain in the hearts and minds of many Americans. And don't you think many of the comments on this site tend to be anti-American, and not just against Bush. I have seen the term "stupid Americans" used here more times than a vegas hooker giving away free trials. Also I doubt many here will be inviting me over for dinner tonight.
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2005/12/the_rise_and_fall_of_schroeder.html

irish_bob

Pocono Joe wrote: »

Yes Schroeder and Chirac remain in the hearts and minds of many Americans. And don't you think many of the comments on this site tend to be anti-American, and not just against Bush. I have seen the term "stupid Americans" used here more times than a vegas hooker giving away free trials. Also I doubt many here will be inviting me over for dinner tonight.
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2005/12/the_rise_and_fall_of_schroeder.html

thank you for clarifying , baschically anti ameircanism is disagreeing with the usa on policy , btw , do you think chirac should be 1st and foremost loyal to the french people or to uncle sam , had chirac supported the iraq war like blair did , then there might have been hundreds of french soldiers dead like there are brittish , you do know that it was the iraq disaster that ended tony blairs leadership and more or less blackend his legacy indefinatley

gixerfixer

Pocono Joe wrote: »

War Party???

September 11, 2001 did not start out like any other day for me. The prior evening I received a call from my brother informing me that he was picking up our "odd" uncle at JFK airport in NYC the next day -- 9/11. I joked with my brother that evening that something terrible is going to happen somewhere in the world. You see, my uncle who came to live with us from Galway, Ireland when I was a toddler and he was a young boy, was suspected by my family to be either a spy or worked for the CIA for many years. After a stint in the US military we rarely heard from him. Oddly, whenever we did receive a call from him, he mysteriously was in some part of the world where some nasty international events were either happening or would happen within the next few days (South America, Afghanistan, Iran, Indonesia, etc, etc).

I received a call the morning of 9/11 from my brother informing me that a plane just few into one of the World Trade Center towers. He wondered if it would cause flights to be cancelled and whether our uncle would even be able to come in that day. As we were speaking another plane flew into the second tower. I immediately got off the phone and went into the president of our company's office because his daughter, a friend of mine, worked in the World Trade Center. As we were speaking his wife called. She was talking to their daughter after the first plane hit, and during the conversation heard a loud noise (the second plane hitting) and suddenly the phone line when dead. Much of the rest of the day was spent watching the television and listening to the local radio channel in anger, fear, and the sudden realization that we have been in a war with terrorists... we just didn't quite know until now. And so began the War on Terror, by the so-called War Party.

Mid morning our local hospital was designated to handle the overflow of victims from the attacks in NYC and were calling for blood donations. I organized people willing to donate blood in our company and called the hospital in the afternoon telling them we had a number of individuals willing to give blood for the victims. I will never forget the hospital official telling me "thank you, but that won't be necessary... there aren't any survivors."

Late in the day I found out my friend (the daughter of the president of our company) was safe and sound. When the second plane hit the WTC, there was a lot of confusion. They were being told to stay put, and that it was the safest place to be. She decided otherwise, and grabbed the hand of a pregnant woman, who didn't want to leave. She forced her to accompany her out of the building. When they got to the exit, building security were trying to keep people from leaving the building. They forced their way past security and got out of the building making their way down to the ferries to escape the city.

She now works with me. She cannot work in NYC anymore. But she is not in today 9/11, as she does not work on this day. To this day she cannot get out of her mind the vision of people jumping from 80+ stories up, and the horrible sound (around her as she was running from the building) that a human body makes hitting the pavement from so far up.

Yes our debt is high. Some parts I understand (9/11, The War on Terror, Hurricane Katrina), others I do not. Although I like GWB, I dislike many of the spending habits he allowed occur during his administration. During and after a war and other challenges our country has had high debt, but we tend to work out of it. It is my hopes that our next president can work to balance our budget. Both McCain and Obama's resulting tax plan effects are somewhat similar. It will all come down to "SPENDING" to see what will happen to national debt. I see Obama has huge spending proposals, and McCain is declaring war on wasteful spending. Right now I plan on voting for the guy who is promising to curtail wasteful spending and "name names" of those who oppose it. Although I don't know how much McCain can get done with a Democratic Tax & Spend Congress, I know he will take up the good fight - because that's what John McCain, the maverick, does.

And your point is? I worked in NY for 6 years and was there on 11th Sep. So what. Plenty of people i knew where affected. Is that an excuse to kill innocents (200,000 at latest figures)....Pathetic. If John mcCain gets in this time (which he will as Americans are never going to vote a black man in) then America will engage in a war with Iran to further their oil interests in the region.. Funny thing is if you go onto the streets of NY or San fran people will say they are embarassed by their Goverment. It's the small town hicks that keep the war mongers in office.

Black Swan

Pocono Joe wrote: »

And don't you think many of the comments on this site tend to be anti-American, and not just against Bush. I have seen the term "stupid Americans" used here more times than a vegas hooker giving away free trials. Also I doubt many here will be inviting me over for dinner tonight.

Enough! Enough! Enough! Will you kindly stop making sweeping generalisations about the Irish people! We are not all the same! We don't all goose step or march to the same drummer thank the gods! We have differences of opinion among ourselves, and with many Americans (but not all Americans)! We won our bloody independence in 1922 after 700 years of yielding to super powers, and by the gods we will never yield again, which includes never giving up our rights to disagree with each other, or with many Americans, or fellow members of the EU (or anyone else in this bloody world)!

And I'll bet you don't have the foggiest idea what's been going on at Shannon airport in the middle of Ireland since the beginning of the Bush administration's bloody war? Huh? The American military has been using Ireland as a staging point for their bloody war, when many EU nations told the US military to take a hike! And I hate the fact that our bloody government allows this, and by the gods I have a right to disagree with them, and with you when you defend McCain-Palin advocacy of the Iraq War!

And should you find yourself at my table for dinner and get one of your Boston cream pies in the face thrown by me, don't say I hate Americans in general, or you in particular, but I will say that your support of McCain-Palin is terribly misguided, and if elected, trillions more in US federal deficit will be added to the unbelievable $9.6 trillion (and rising) debt reported by your US Treasury Department. And the USA is not an island in the economic world, but a super economic force, which when it fails as it is now failing by recession, drags innocent Ireland with it! Enough!

Pocono Joe

I'm not fond of Boston Creme. Could you make it Lemon Meringue instead?

And I'm sorry if my equal right to debate the issues aides to all that hate you appear to have.

Black Swan

Pocono Joe wrote: »

And I'm sorry if my equal right to debate the issues aides to all that hate you appear to have.

You completely missed my point, and are now projecting an image of me to support your own position in a self-fulfilling way. Chill out and don't take yourself so seriously.