UHF Deflector/Retransmission systems coming to an end?

Mayo Exile

From the Mayo News (9/9/2008) this week:

Television service in jeopardy


Houses across Mayo face channel blackout as signal set to be withdrawn

Neill O’Neill

UP TO 150 households in the south west Mayo region near Drummin will be without terrestrial television channels from September 30 next, as the Chairman of Mayo Community TV Ltd warns that there is a real danger of the service also being withdrawn from many more areas of the county.
The switching off of the transmission to the area will directly affect homes in Drummin, Bohea, Liscarney, Carrakennedy, Erriff and other surrounding areas, and notice is being given to allow people three weeks to arrange alternative ways of receiving a television signal.
Now in their third decade of providing non-subscription television to between 30,000 and 40,000 homes county-wide, the company are finding it increasingly difficult to operate because of a lack of funds and an unwillingness in many households to pay a voluntary €75 annual contribution charge.
A mast near the Mayo border in Connemara was switched off by the company last February with a loss of TV channels to the region, and with the cessation of services in Drummin imminent, Joe Gibbons has stated that services in Louisburgh and Newport are also in immediate danger.
This will mean that without subscribing to a pay monthly Sky TV package, many households outside of Mayo’s major urban centres will only be able to receive a limited and often poor quality television signal. The county is also served by RTE antennae – but households that can benefit from these will only be able to receive RTE One, Network 2 and TG4. However, this excludes the Drummin area where the RTE signal cannot penetrate, and at present, Mayo Community TV Ltd are the sole transmitters of RTE on the terrestrial network in Drummin. The company also transmits BBC1, BBC2, UTV, and Channel 4 right across their network, and all these channels will be permanently lost wherever their service ceases.
“Since 1988 we have been transmitting in Drummin,” Mr Gibbons told The Mayo News, “and traditionally we have had to use money from other areas to maintain this service financially. We invested €14,000 in the transmitter in Drummin in the last two years (including having a new mast dropped in place by a helicopter), and though it costs €3,000 to run annually, our last collection in the area yielded just €530 – the price of three television licences. We now regret that as a result, we will be switching off the transmitter in Drummin on September 30 next.”
According to Mr Gibbons, when collectors called to some houses in the Drummin area they were told that Sky TV had been installed and found people saying that they no longer use the services of Mayo Community TV Ltd, and therefore would not pay the €75.
“The problem is that while people may have Sky on their main television there is usually another TV set in the house with terrestrial channels showing, and this is not being paid for. The average household has five television sets these days, and we have no way of demanding they pay us for this so we are essentially paying to provide some people with a free television service. This is threatening our overall business and we will run out of money if it continues. We realise that not everybody has Sky but we feel we have no choice but to take this action. The real pity is that the households – especially those where elderly people reside – where our service is appreciated and where the €75 is paid, will also now lose their television signal because of this. We cannot and will not borrow money to maintain the service.”
For every €75 Mayo Community TV Ltd receive they are left with €20 to run the service on, by the time they pay VAT, IMRO (Irish Music Rights Organisation) subscription, licence and collectors’ fees and insurance. When they began bringing television to Mayo in the late seventies they received IR£30 per household per year, and could keep it all.
RTE provide no financial assistance to Mayo Community TV Ltd, but have in the past encouraged them to invest in upgrading their transmission equipment. The company serves most of the county with a network of eight masts, and also facilitates the provision of broadband services by carrying broadband antennae on their masts when requested to do so. Joe Gibbons said that he is aware that another terrestrial television service provider in the Belmullet area is experiencing similar difficulties as Mayo Community TV Ltd.

Link: http://www.mayonews.ie/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4901&Itemid=38

The most serious thing for many in the above article is that RTE/TV3 use this method to get their signals to households in this area. They are facing utterly blank screens at the end of the month. If you don't want a dish on your house it's a scandal that you can't get a decent terrestrial signal in the early 21st century in parts of ireland. Around the Westport area, if you don't have a dish you get TV3 from this company.

TheDriver

DOwn in Cork, SouthCoast are same in that most don't pay their subs for terrestrial BBCs etc. Only thing is after 2 years fees, you can buy some FTA equipment and have free digital signal. Think RTE may need to step in and run the transmitter but seems interesting times with the advent of DTT that this announcement is made.
I would see most going to Sky etc, if people in the area don't pay their subs then suppose its tough if the service goes.

watty

These systems were illegal and made legal as a sop to local TDs with condition that they would close when DTT started which was supposed to be 2002 at the latest. They have had a 6 year stay of execution.

In addition they have become largely obsolete due to FTA BBC & ITV and now recently C4 on Satellite.

Any used for RTE are a disgrace as RTE/ TV3 / TG4 are supposed to have a Universal service over 30 years ago. Close all Irish station transmissions on all 3rd party masts and write to TD and RTE about them abrogating their USO!

SCTV saw the end coming and after years of outspoken condemation of MMDS as Dangerous (rubbish) now have a local MMDS licence on 11.7GHz to 12.5GHz band which can use regular LNB (22KHz on) and Satellite receiver terrestrially with a 44cm rear feed (cassegrain) type dish.

TV3 ought to be threatened with loss of licence since they have deliberately as a cost saving not paid for carriage on most RTE smaller TX sites, reducing their coverage to about 80% of population.

RTE defined their own concept of coverage (claiming over 99%) with no independent review or verification. In terms of DECENT signal, RTE is more like 95% or less.

Note that 0.5% population is over 6,000 Households, maybe 15,000 to 24,000 people (as the worst covered areas may have 2.5 to 4 people per house).

Geographic coverage is worse.

Limerick has a 100W transmitter. In the UK a similar area would have a better sited/taller mast (It has almost no coverage into Shannon Town) and be running maybe 5KW to 10KW.

Galway and Sligo should have similar local higher power TX and they don't.

The original sites (Truskmore, Lienster, Maghera, Kippure, Mullaganish) are typical 1950s Band I type planning with big roof top aerials . Useless by in large (except for sheep) for UHF and the concept of indoor or loft aerials.

RTE need to add a lot of sites and use all 5 of the old VHF ones only for rural fill in and FM/DAB radio, not as main coverage sites.

Longford, Spur Hill and Dundalk are not bad (very much later UHF era sites).
HolyHill in Donegall appears to be to feed Derry. Donegal needs a lot of sites, HolyHill does much more for NI people than Donegal.

Rippy

SCTV are also carrying RTE on several masts. Belgooley, Minane Bridge and Inishannon spring to mind. Have had no definate date for switch off of their analogue service but should be end of this year or VERY early next year or some frequencies will get in the way of DTT.

The Cush

The applicable regulation for deflectors (BBC, UTV etc) is S.I. No. 645 of 2006 Wireless Telegraphy (UHF Television Programme Retransmission) Regulations, 2006 issued by Comreg.

The regulation states as follows

(5) For the avoidance of doubt, no Licence shall be granted pursuant to these Regulations after 31st December 2009.

So I guess if the UK channels disappear from deflectors in 2010 who will pay €75 to receive 4 Irish channels plus licence fee.

snaps

Does this mean we get a rebate on our TV licence if the transmitter is turned off????

Bet even then when the screen goes blank we will still have to pay a licence for the aerial on the roof?

Rippy

snaps wrote: »

Does this mean we get a rebate on our TV licence if the transmitter is turned off????

Bet even then when the screen goes blank we will still have to pay a licence for the aerial on the roof?

You pay your TV licence for the tuner in your TV . Not for the aerial on your roof.
You need a licence regardless of whether you are receiving via aerial, dish or cable. Or even if you can't receive any channels at all! (as long as you have a TV or computer with a tuner in it in working order.)

lawhec

The deflector idea for BBC, UTV/HTV and CH4/S4C was a good concept for the 80's, 90's and early part of this decade but with these channel plus their digital offspring now being FTA on a small satellite dish anywhere in Ireland, even allowing for the principle of second/third etc. TV sets and time-shifting recording, its a system that is now near if not obselete and not possible to make any significant money off.

Freddie59

lawhec wrote: »

The deflector idea for BBC, UTV/HTV and CH4/S4C was a good concept for the 80's, 90's and early part of this decade but with these channel plus their digital offspring now being FTA on a small satellite dish anywhere in Ireland, even allowing for the principle of second/third etc. TV sets and time-shifting recording, its a system that is now near if not obselete and not possible to make any significant money off.

It had its day. Time to go. End of story. The very cable companies that one contributor here so obviously despises have now spawned High-Speed Broadband, Digital Television, Time Shift recording, etc. A far cry from four channels, which are no longer held in the awe and estemm they were held in 20 years ago.

snaps

Rippy wrote: »

You pay your TV licence for the tuner in your TV . Not for the aerial on your roof.
You need a licence regardless of whether you are receiving via aerial, dish or cable. Or even if you can't receive any channels at all! (as long as you have a TV or computer with a tuner in it in working order.)

Your right and wrong mate. You will get caught if you have no TV recieving equiptment in your house full stop if you have an aerial that is able to recieve transmissions that the good old detector van can see he will catch you. Happened to me when i lived in Galway. I was in the process of moving (2 addresses) no equiptment in the house whats so ever, but he handed me a piece of paper stating that the aerial on the roof could be used to recieve broadcasts so i needed i licence! Luckily I was just moving so never bothered!

Antenna

Mayo Exile wrote: »

If you don't want a dish on your house it's a scandal that you can't get a decent terrestrial signal in the early 21st century in parts of ireland. Around the Westport area, if you don't have a dish you get TV3 from this company.

Perhaps the issue here is the lack of a FTV availability of the national services on satellite.

100% terrestrial coverage is not feasable.

The UK networks are unable to provide universal terrestrial coverage (either analogue or digital) either, otherwise they would not have gone FTA on satellite?
In Ireland - there is much more 'one-off' rural housing than in the UK, and these are often in reception blackspots.

watty wrote: »

Any used for RTE are a disgrace as RTE/ TV3 / TG4 are supposed to have a Universal service over 30 years ago. Close all Irish station transmissions on all 3rd party masts and write to TD and RTE about them abrogating their USO!

Watty, there are also many third party/'self-help' re-transmission of the national TV services in the UK, its not unique to this country.
see here: http://www.ukfree.tv/fullstory.php?storyid=1107051323

icdg

snaps wrote: »

Does this mean we get a rebate on our TV licence if the transmitter is turned off????

No, of course not. People in Dublin (where there are no deflectors, as is the case with most of Leinster) don't get a rebate on their licence if they don't have cable or satellite, now do they?

These systems were completely illegal, in breach of any sort of proper radio frequency planning and not paying copyright payments to the rights holders.

The only reason they were legalised was the dependancy of the 1997-2002 government on Tom Guildea, probably the first MP elected to a parliament anywhere in the world on the sole issue of defending his constitutency's God-given right to recieve another country's public service broadcaster.

With DTT, the ideal situation would have been is that these stations would have been available FTA nationaly, with the government paying an agreed sum to the BBC to cover copyright clearance (Channel 4 and UTV, as commercial broadcasters, gain advertising revenue from the Republic so they should look after their own copyright clearance, as indeed Channel 4 does). Or at least, this would have been the ideal situation, had we not granted the DTT franchise to a completely pay-TV company.

watty

Antenna wrote: »

Watty, there are also many third party/'self-help' re-transmission of the national TV services in the UK, its not unique to this country.
see here: http://www.ukfree.tv/fullstory.php?storyid=1107051323

Yes. But the UK is much less reliant on them and they do not broadcast anything other than UK local TV, they have always been licensed and developed in conjunction with BBC.

Here, even with them, coverage is poorer than in UK excluding them.

Infrastructure planning is a sick joke in this country. We are now adding the kind of roads in 2000+ that other countries did from 1930s to 1960s.

We had a burst of Telecom upgrading in 1980s and now going backwards.

We only add Shortwave "international" service about 80 years after start of broadcasting as everyone else is winding down SW. Our So called RTE International Sat is 10 years late and only a RTE-UK service, not "international".

Due to incompetence we lost the great idea of DVB-RCT for set boxes and delayed DTT 6 or 7 years, though at least it means we get MPEG4.

We start to roll out DAB just as everyone questions if DAB is a dead Duck or if DAB+ or DRM-VHF is the solution (though oddly we manage to do DVb-h and LW DRM testing).

We include 3G/HSDPA as "Broadband" and no-one else does. but still slide backwards.

Buy a toll road, but continue to toll it, but even waste 30% of the takings...

The list could go on.. but this is not Politics Forum (Village/Town planning vs Linear Development + septic tanks)

snaps

icdg wrote: »

No, of course not. People in Dublin (where there are no deflectors, as is the case with most of Leinster) don't get a rebate on their licence if they don't have cable or satellite, now do they?

These systems were completely illegal, in breach of any sort of proper radio frequency planning and not paying copyright payments to the rights holders.

The only reason they were legalised was the dependancy of the 1997-2002 government on Tom Guildea, probably the first MP elected to a parliament anywhere in the world on the sole issue of defending his constitutency's God-given right to recieve another country's public service broadcaster.

With DTT, the ideal situation would have been is that these stations would have been available FTA nationaly, with the government paying an agreed sum to the BBC to cover copyright clearance (Channel 4 and UTV, as commercial broadcasters, gain advertising revenue from the Republic so they should look after their own copyright clearance, as indeed Channel 4 does). Or at least, this would have been the ideal situation, had we not granted the DTT franchise to a completely pay-TV company.

So if it wasnt for the "Illegal" transmitter i am recieving Irish TV from i wouldnt be able to recieve it in a free ligit way then?
Something is wrong somewhere if its only illegal transmitters keeping the country areas of this country covered with Irish national tv.
Ill be buggered if and when the transmitter is switched off here, Ill be paying Sky 20 odd euros a month just to be able to recieve the 4 national channels plus a TV licence.
That stinks

watty

Indeed it does and some of us have been pointing this out for over 20 years.
(At the end of one heated meeting of TV dealers and "Community" people in Railway hotel in Limerick in about 1985 I suggested we put up our own satellite!)

Foggy43

Is the Railway Hotel still there?

The Woodcock Hill transmitter must have started transmitting TV around 1985?

Antenna

Rippy wrote: »

some frequencies will get in the way of DTT.

SCTV UHF was yesterday suffering severe interference (or total wipeout) on its ITV in many areas due to the channel used from the main Carrigaline transmitter for ITV (Ch 45) being co-channel with one of the powerful DTT channels switched on in test mode from Spur Hill as of yesterday.

By last night South Coast had moved ITV onto the channel that had been used for Channel 4 (Ch 40) from this transmitter.

So South Coast will have to find a new channel to replace 45.
Perhaps Ch 35 is a likely candidate, AFAIK Ch 35 is not used anywhere nearby and should be Ok with the majority of 'Group B' aerials?

South Coast also has used Ch 66 (also for ITV) at another transmitter some miles west of Cork city (along with 61, 64 and 69). This Ch 66 would also be interfered with by the Spur Hill DTT tests on 66 also. I suspect the south coast Ch 66 will get moved up to Ch 67 ?

barnicles

Antenna wrote: »

SCTV UHF was yesterday suffering severe interference (or total wipeout) on its ITV in many areas due to the channel used from the main Carrigaline transmitter for ITV (Ch 45) being co-channel with one of the powerful DTT channels switched on in test mode from Spur Hill as of yesterday.

By last night South Coast had moved ITV onto the channel that had been used for Channel 4 (Ch 40) from this transmitter.

So South Coast will have to find a new channel to replace 45.
Perhaps Ch 35 is a likely candidate, AFAIK Ch 35 is not used anywhere nearby and should be Ok with the majority of 'Group B' aerials?

South Coast also has used Ch 66 (also for ITV) at another transmitter some miles west of Cork city (along with 61, 64 and 69). This Ch 66 would also be interfered with by the Spur Hill DTT tests on 66 also. I suspect the south coast Ch 66 will get moved up to Ch 67 ?

35 is used by the majority of VCRs

watty

The Analogue "deflectors" got a stay of execution in 2001 or so, supposedly for a year or two till DTT started. They got an extra 7 years. They ALL have to close shortly. It's not a question of reasignment of channels.

Besides now not only BBC is FTA, but ITV/UTV, C4 and Five and many other watchable channels with near perfect pictures on Satellite gear with once off price from $63 for FTA and more for Freesat (auto tuning, EPG and Interactive). No subscription. The original reason for the originally Illegal ( and shortly illegal again) so called "Deflectors" is gone.

watty

Foggy43 wrote: »

Is the Railway Hotel still there?

The Woodcock Hill transmitter must have started transmitting TV around 1985?

Last time I looked it was still there opposite the Station. Hanratty's and Cruises are gone.

barnicles

Any more news on the South Coast ch45 issue?

thejuggler

In the deflector in my area as of last night South Coast are now transmitting only BBC1 and BBC 2 on analogue. Both ITV and Channel 4 are gone.

Rippy

Received news from South Coast engineer this evening that ITV is switching to Ch38 from Wednesday.
He also confirmed that South Coast have a licence to operate the analogue service for 2009.

The Cush

Rippy wrote: »

He also confirmed that South Coast have a licence to operate the analogue service for 2009.

As per the regulation - S.I. No. 645 of 2006 Wireless Telegraphy (UHF Television Programme Retransmission) Regulations, 2006 issued by Comreg

Duration and Renewal of Licences
6. (5) For the avoidance of doubt, no Licence shall be granted pursuant to these Regulations after 31st December 2009.

Also the section relating to interference with DTT

Interference
10. ...
(3) (b) Subject to the provisions of sub-paragraph (a), where the Licensee is licensed to retransmit Licensed Programme Services on non-reserved spectrum, the Commission may suspend, revoke or vary the Licence where the Licensee suffers interference, of any type whatsoever, from the transmissions of DTT.
(4) Where the Licensee is licensed to retransmit Licensed Programme Services on a frequency channel or channels that are part of the reserved spectrum, the Commission shall revoke the Licence with respect to the reserved spectrum where it is satisfied that continued operation would cause interference, of any type whatsoever, with transmissions of DTT.
(5) Where the Licensee is licensed to retransmit Licensed Programme Services on nonreserved spectrum and such retransmission causes interference, of any type whatsoever, with transmissions of DTT the Commission may suspend, revoke or vary the licence.

Rippy

The Cush wrote: »

As per the regulation - S.I. No. 645 of 2006 Wireless Telegraphy (UHF Television Programme Retransmission) Regulations, 2006 issued by Comreg


Also the section relating to interference with DTT

They have a licence until the 31st December 2009 as per the above mentioned regulations.
With the frequency shift they hopefully won't interfere.

barnicles

Any more news on SCTV's analogue switch-off?

My local deflector is broadcasting terrible pictures and the Sky screen is up a lot too.

watty

Get satellite. Analogue deflectors have to turn off shortly by law and it was a stupid fudge allowing them when in the 1st place they where illegal and a menace.

barnicles

I have satellite. I was just asking a question

snaps

watty wrote: »

Get satellite. Analogue deflectors have to turn off shortly by law and it was a stupid fudge allowing them when in the 1st place they where illegal and a menace.

Yes watty, but for people living in the middle of the country (back of beyond) where transmissions from sligo and clare from the main transmitters is near enough impossible, these deflectors or whatever you want to call them, give us access to the 4 Irish stations. I get the UK channels from FTA satellite. But when the deflector is switched off, we will have no Irish channels and as far as i can see the DTT schedule is 2011 here in mayo.

So yes get FTA satellite for UK channels, but how about the Irish channels (Who our licence funds)?? Pay sky 20e a month? Yeah right.

watty

Agin it show how pathetic the Dept of Comms and Government and consumer association are.

RTE, TV3 and TG4 are supposed to provide 100% coverage. Complain to your TD. They are in breach of licence by not providing a service.

I'd differentiate also between "deflectors" intended for UK TV and Community Self help "repeaters" sanctioned by Comreg and RTE with RTENL assisting in planning and procurement.

barnicles

barnicles wrote: »

Any more news on SCTV's analogue switch-off?

My local deflector is broadcasting terrible pictures and the Sky screen is up a lot too.

This is offline atm afaik

Anyway it transmits on 23,26,30,33 and will have to power down to make way for DTT.

Antenna

I'm told the South Coast deflector serving areas of Cloghroe, Blarney, Ovens has resumed with 4 channels on UHF Chs 61, 64, 67 (had been 66), 69,
[Horizontal polarisation]

barnicles

barnicles wrote: »

This is offline atm afaik

Anyway it transmits on 23,26,30,33 and will have to power down to make way for DTT.

Off the air with 17 days now.

SLTV not answering phones.

Galway

The deflector for Loughrea, also receivable in Athenry and beyond was broadcasting on the following channels:

BBC 1 NI - 54 BBC 2 NI - 51 UTV - 58 Channel 4 - 48 Polarisation - Horizontal

I believe its located in the mountains near Derrybrien.

Now that Maghera DTT is broadcasting on ch 48, does anyone know if they have moved Channel 4 to another UHF channel?

The quality at my location south of Tuam was pretty poor anyway, and is much better from Balla - but has got worse a lot of late. Guess they not bothering as all UK terrrestrials now free on satellite and the deflector licences only valid to end of this year.

Mike 1972

The Castlebar Deflector uses 39/42/47/53/56

Truskmore on 53 will probably cause problems for BBC2 there when it gets up to full power.

But it was always a condition of the deflector licences that DTT services would take priority so its probably the end of the line for many of the deflectors now.

But with fewer and fewer people paying their subs and the proliferation of freesat there is really little need for the deflectors in this day and age. (Plus many of the operators have reached retirement age)

The deflector concept (when operated by competent individuals) was an excellent one in its day but its time has passed.

Sponge Bob

Actually the game is up when terrestrial starts broadcasting officially and that is some time between June and September .

You could pick up their C4 30 miles away !

watty

Get a FTA or Freesat Satellite system.

So called Deflectors are doomed this year and really are 10 years past sell by date.

All the UK "Deflector" channels are now free and much better quality on Satellite.

Mayo Exile

Do all UHF Deflector/re-transmission systems in the country have to be off the air by 31 December of this year without exception?

Mike 1972

Havent heard any announcment to thateffect but wouldnt be suprised to hear one soon.

The other possibility is them being allowed to continue provided their frequencies dont clash with DTT although as DTT is rolled out many deflectors will loose at least one (and possibly all) of their channels.

In any case with increacing numbers of people getting freesat/Sky or simply refusing to pay their subs the task of fundraising to keep the things going is becoming increacingly difficult.

The Cush

Mayo Exile wrote: »

Do all UHF Deflector/re-transmission systems in the country have to be off the air by 31 December of this year without exception?

Their licences expire at the end of the year, as to whether or not they go off air will be down to the owner / operators. If they remain on air they will return to their pre 1999 status as illegal deflectors (remember Tom Gildea T.D.).

The applicable regulation for deflectors is S.I. No. 645 of 2006 Wireless Telegraphy (UHF Television Programme Retransmission) Regulations, 2006 issued by Comreg, deflectors will not be licenced after 2009.

The regulation states as follows

Duration and Renewal of Licences

(3) Notwithstanding paragraph (2) of this Regulation a Licence shall not be renewed on the third anniversary* after the first grant of the Licence and shall then expire.
(5) For the avoidance of doubt, no Licence shall be granted pursuant to these Regulations after 31st December 2009.

(*01 Jan 2010)

Sponge Bob

My point was that the deflectors have no precedence over DTT and must cease as DTT begins

From the Cush

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=57936440&postcount=24

Interference
10. ...

(3) (b) Subject to the provisions of sub-paragraph (a), where the Licensee is licensed to retransmit Licensed Programme Services on non-reserved spectrum, the Commission may suspend, revoke or vary the Licence where the Licensee suffers interference, of any type whatsoever, from the transmissions of DTT.
(4) Where the Licensee is licensed to retransmit Licensed Programme Services on a frequency channel or channels that are part of the reserved spectrum, the Commission shall revoke the Licence with respect to the reserved spectrum where it is satisfied that continued operation would cause interference, of any type whatsoever, with transmissions of DTT.
(5) Where the Licensee is licensed to retransmit Licensed Programme Services on nonreserved spectrum and such retransmission causes interference, of any type whatsoever, with transmissions of DTT the Commission may suspend, revoke or vary the licence.

Before end 2009 I should think !

Mike 1972

Have all these frequency changes (particularly Ch 38) been approved by COMREG and the licences amended accordingly ?

35 is used by the majority of VCRs

Dosnt stop TV3 using it in Dublin (they didnt have to pay for "retuning" either)

snaps wrote: »

Happened to me when i lived in Galway. I was in the process of moving (2 addresses) no equiptment in the house whats so ever, but he handed me a piece of paper stating that the aerial on the roof could be used to recieve broadcasts so i needed i licence

The guy was talking through his back passage.

An aerial on your roof can indeed be used to recieve broadcasts but the broadcasts in question could be radio (e.g. FM/VHF/Band 2) for which no licence is required.

On the other hand it is possible (in some areas) to recieve television broadcasts on a wire coat hanger...........

it was a stupid fudge allowing them when in the 1st place they where illegal and a menace.

To whom exactly (other than the shareholders of Cable/MMDS companies)

The only reason they were legalised was the dependancy of the 1997-2002 government on Tom Guildea, probably the first MP elected to a parliament anywhere in the world on the sole issue of defending his constitutency's God-given right to recieve another country's public service broadcaster.

And your problem with democracy is what exactly ?

Mayo Exile

Thanks for the replys fellas. Was wondering about the status of a deflector system just outside Westport (Mayo). Its on a hill (Farnaught) just outside the town and transmits the UK stations on 39, 42, 45 and 49.

I think it gets them from a Sky Digibox, or boxes? and transmits them on these frequencies, as one day on Channel 4 there was a "no signal recieved" message, which had me thinking, erm, "we don't have Sky, where the hell's that coming from"!

According to the legislation, from January 1st 2010 deflectors will become illegal again. I'd guess it could stay on the air well into 2010 until DTT from Castlebar comes onstream (Q3 2010?).

EDIT: could it interfere with any of the Cairn Hill frequencies on 41, 44 etc?

Mike 1972

I was always under the impression that the Westport deflectors sourced their signals from Balla but obviously this is no longer the case.

Anyway at this stage anyone around these parts thinking of getting a "BBC aerial" setup installed/upgraded/repaired should forget it and go for Freesat instead

Mayo Exile

This may still be the case Mike? I don't know for sure. Could they be using the Digiboxes at Balla? Reception of BBC2 was awful up to 2 or 3 years ago. All pictures, bar UTV on 42, are now good since then. There is co-channel interference on 42. Don't know what it is clashing with.

Mike 1972

Castlebar uses 39 (TV3) and 42 (ITV). And yes Castlebar (particularly Ch 39) also suffers from interference from Westport (Castlebar is Horizontally polorised. Not sure about Westport).

Why they could never agree on different channels was beyond me. Surely out of the 45 odd channels on the UHF band they could come up with a better set of frequencies ???

A few years I asked someone in the know about digiboxes at Balla and was told "they dont believe in them" seemingly the analouge reception from NI at the Balla site is very good and it was felt that the benefits of digiboxes didnt justify the loss of NICAM and teletext.

Mayo Exile

benefits of digiboxes didnt justify the loss of NICAM and teletext.

They must be using the Digiboxes at Westport then, as the sound is mono on the Father's TV, and there is no text available on any of the 4 UK channels.

EDIT: TV3 on the Westport deflector is on 67 I think. TV3 also has text, so they are probably sourcing it terrestrially. Also I think Westport is horizontally polarised.

watty

They were illegal and become illegal again this year. The Irish Goverment / Comreg may even have over stepped International agreements in licencing them at all.

For many years the cable & MMDS operators broke international agreements too as they didn't pay a penny royalty to UK. Only personal cross border reception is legal in most of the world without royalties.

I've merged the Loughrea thread as it doesn't warrent being separate.

Galway

Mike 1972 wrote: »

A few years I asked someone in the know about digiboxes at Balla and was told "they dont believe in them" seemingly the analouge reception from NI at the Balla site is very good and it was felt that the benefits of digiboxes didnt justify the loss of NICAM and teletext.

What ever the reception at the transmission site is what has been coming out of Balla this year has been pretty grim. There was a time when the reception was mostly very good on all channels. Balla used to come in fairly good here - 8 miles south of Tuam on highish ground. Its pretty grim in Claremorris too, which is a hell of a lot nearer to Balla. I guess nothing is being maintained now in light of the impending shutdown at the end of the year. There will be some outcry as its very unlikely Boxer will be up and running by the end of the year. Maybe RTÉ should have been granted the licence to relay the UK channels also for a reasonable monthly subscription.

watty

Why on earth would you pay for what you can get free?

RTE did put a joint bid in for the Pay Mux, but lost to Boxer who was going to charge fro some UK stations. Since all the main UK stations are now FTA and satellite reception via DIY is under 70 Euro once off inc Dish, it doubtful Boxer would survive, espe since over 70% have pay TV superior to what Boxer can offer.

Galway

watty wrote: »

Why on earth would you pay for what you can get free?

RTE did put a joint bid in for the Pay Mux, but lost to Boxer who was going to charge fro some UK stations. Since all the main UK stations are now FTA and satellite reception via DIY is under 70 Euro once off inc Dish, it doubtful Boxer would survive, espe since over 70% have pay TV superior to what Boxer can offer.

Not every can or indeed may want to put up a satellite dish. Nor may they wish to have UPC, so you may find people would pay, if they undercut UPC and Sky). UK TV on DTT would be superior picture quality to the compressed rubbish UPC send out.