Confess: what religious art, etc, do you like?

Dave!

hey folks,

Do any of ye heathens have an ironic love of religious art?

I ask because I have my own confession... I love gospel music

My brother used to have a girlfriend who was in the Dublin Gospel Choir, so I went along with him most weeks to hear them sing in the church on, I believe, church street! I also saw a couple of their 'proper' gigs.

My mp3 player used to be full of Kirk Franklin (?) songs, and I know the words to most of them

Dawkins has said that he finds the King James Bible to be a beautiful piece of literature. What ye think?

Any other confessions?

eVeNtInE

This post has been deleted.

ChocolateSauce

I'm not too much of an art buff. While I like the paintings of the renaissance, many of which have religious themes, I do not like them because they are religious but because they are beautiful, so that doesn't really count. I don't like gospel music.

I like statues of Buddha and I like images of the Hindu gods.

Finally, I love the portrait of the FSM.

Dades

Wouldn't be mad on religious art in general, but I'd quite like a dirty big Caravaggio to hang above my fireplace!

I was blown away years ago when I saw this in the flesh in Dublin.

Fanny Cradock

I was in the National Gallery only a few days ago and was quite shocked to see this hanging on the wall. Who would have thunk there was a genuine masterpiece just a bus journey away?









The answer is 'not me', btw.

Goduznt Xzst

not really a fan of art tbh, but from an engineering point of view St. Peters Basilica is technically amazing. I'd be more interested in religious architecture myself, primarily for the reason that it usually consists of more form than function, something that is lost, for the most part, on a lot of modern, secular, architecture.

Mena

Well I wouldn't call it a confession, as I see religious art sans the religious part.

Gregorian chanting does it for me, in a big way!

sdep

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

I was in the National Gallery only a few days ago and was quite shocked to see this hanging on the wall. Who would have thunk there was a genuine masterpiece just a bus journey away?

Off topic, there's another in the room facing, too:



Back on track, I'll go for choral music from the earliest polyphonic music by Perotin and others around the 12th-13th centuries, through the likes of Palestrina (say, the Pope Marcellus Mass), Thomas Tallis (his motet Spem in Alium), Monteverdi (the Vespers), Bach (the St. Matthew Passion) and Mozart (his requiem, at least up to the point where he left off). Music scholars point out themes from religious works 'quoted' in purely instrumental music by these and other composers, too, indicating that even their seemingly secular music may be religiously inspired.

To me, it does feel odd listening to music based on religious texts. I suppose I'm not hearing the music in the same way as religious listeners, and indeed not as the composers intended, but I still find the music too good to pass up.

tricky D

Gothic Chorals, esp Havergal Brian 'The Gothic' - massive wall of sound

Gregorian chants and icons (from meditating in school chapel)

Big Architecture - used to have the run of the abbey where my gran used to do her work - roofs, crypts, vaults... paradise for a kid exploring.

--amadeus--

Funny enough I mentioned liking gospel music in a thread on the Chritianity forum today (where is PDN when we have a religios co-incidence! )

I love "proper" african-american gospel music (Dave if you have any names I'd love to hear them, it's hard to search for it without getting bogged down in tripe syrupy warbly hymns). There is a great song called "Long as I got King Jesus" by someone called Vickie Winnans which I find myself humming every now and again! I've also got some bits and pieces from the Mississipi Mass Choir and someone called Carlton Pearson. And of course the Dublin Gospel Choir from teh "Even better than the real thing" CD. The Housemartins (back in the 80s) also did a lot of "garage gospel" which is great.

I also like a huge amount of the religious art from the Renaissance.

At the risk of sounding like an art ponce I enjoy art (music / painting / literature) that has some kind of passion and feeling to it. The source of that emotion doesn't really matter.

brianthebard

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

I was in the National Gallery only a few days ago and was quite shocked to see this hanging on the wall. Who would have thunk there was a genuine masterpiece just a bus journey away?









The answer is 'not me', btw.

A genuine masterpiece? You mean hundreds don't you? And I hope you popped into the modern Irish artists section...But I digress. Firstly is it ironic for agnostics to enjoy religious art? Secondly, this klimt is biblical, but also quite secular. I klimt!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/92/Gustav_Klimt_039.jpg

Scofflaw

Crikey, where to start? Church architecture - mosque architecture - the Blue Mosque in Istanbul - mandalas - monasteries - statuary - festivals - gospel music - hymns - passion plays - Gregorian chants - there's not much religious work I don't like. As to the King James' Bible - I love it, and have a real weakness for declaiming it.

I wouldn't even say it's ironic.

treacherously,
Scofflaw

Fanny Cradock

brianthebard wrote: »

A genuine masterpiece? You mean hundreds don't you? And I hope you popped into the modern Irish artists section...But I digress. Firstly is it ironic for agnostics to enjoy religious art? Secondly, this klimt is biblical, but also quite secular. I klimt!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/92/Gustav_Klimt_039.jpg

Being a bit of a philistine when it comes to Art, if I recognise it, it's a masterpiece.

Galvasean

I really like that picture of hell, you know the one where the big birdie thing is eating the lad in the left hand corner.
So crazy.

Scofflaw

Galvasean wrote: »

I really like that picture of hell, you know the one where the big birdie thing is eating the lad in the left hand corner.
So crazy.

Hieronymus Bosch. Mad as a cat in a tumbledryer, and a hell of a painter. That's the right-hand triptych panel of The Garden of Earthly Delights. The big birdie thing is Satan.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Earthhorse

Scofflaw wrote: »

As to the King James' Bible - I love it, and have a real weakness for declaiming it.

Thing about the King James' is that it was hugely influential on the English language too.

I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone in this world that doesn't love some religious art considering how frequent a subject it is there.

HalloweenJack

I love the Russian Orthodox icons. They are brilliantly done.

Book of Kells, another fine piece of religious art.

What I really like are the Hindu paintings of the various Gods. Some of them are simply amazing, like this one of Vishnu.

Asiaprod

Hieronymus Bosch, church architecture, monastic life, mandalas, Gregorian chants, early christian literature, in particular, Gnostic.

Obni

First movement of Gorecki's Symphony of Sorrowful Songs - Mary's lament at the foot of the cross. Even a stone-hearted old atheist can't help but be moved.

Scofflaw

Asiaprod wrote: »

Hieronymus Bosch, church architecture, monastic life, mandalas, Gregorian chants, early christian literature, in particular, Gnostic.

Your taste is exquisite...

appreciatively,
Scofflaw

L31mr0d

Mena wrote: »

Well I wouldn't call it a confession, as I see religious art sans the religious part.

well I think its more to do with accepting that, regarding art, religion does a lot of good. Without religion I don't know who would of paid all the artists of the Renaissance.

sdep

L31mr0d wrote: »

well I think its more to do with accepting that, regarding art, religion does a lot of good. Without religion I don't know who would of paid all the artists of the Renaissance.

Whoever had money would have paid, and indeed did. The patrons included the popes and the elite of the Italian states - aristocrats and wealthy merchants like the Medici - all eager to impress and outdo each other as they jostled for power. Going forward from the Renaissance, you see the role of religion lessening over time, and individuals, corporations and states becoming the chief patrons of the arts.

The Renaissance is seen as a humanist awakening, with artists exploring new ideas and reviving and reinterpreting the classical past. However, secular patrons still built churches and monasteries, moved by the dictates of society and their own religious hopes and fears. Even here, though, artists often used religious imagery as a shorthand for expressing other ideas, rather as we use classical myths as metaphor. Michelangelo's David - a Biblical figure - is seen as upholding the republican tradition of Florence against the Goliaths of princely tyranny.

While religion has inspired and bankrolled much of Western art, it's been an uneasy relationship. For example, some religious forces opposed what they saw as the decadence of the Renaissance. The austere Dominican Savonarola, who briefly led the Florentine state, organised a 'Bonfire of the Vanities' in which he burned luxuries and artworks, including many by Botticelli, that he considered immoral.

There's a good downloadable Radio 4 series on the Medici and the Renaissance here that goes into a lot more detail.

The Mad Hatter

Er...who cares if it's religious - great art is great art.

Bach - St. Matthew Passion, St. John Passion, B Minor Mass
Mozart - Requiem
Janacek - Glagolithic Mass
Pärt - St. John Passion
Beethoven - Mass in C minor, Missa Solemnis
Messiaen - Quartet for the End of Time

etc., etc...

Soul Winner

Dades wrote: »

Wouldn't be mad on religious art in general, but I'd quite like a dirty big Caravaggio to hang above my fireplace!

I was blown away years ago when I saw this in the flesh in Dublin.

I actually have this painting over my fireplace all be it a much smaller version. It was a house warming present that I just had to give pride of place.

Anyway if yous like religious art and history then may I recommend the movie "Russkiy kovcheg" or "Russian Ark". It is an historical tour through the Hermitage Museum in Russia. The film boasts the longest one shot take in movie history, in fact the whole movie was made in one day and done in one shot. There are some really amazing pieces of art on show, well worth renting or buying.

brianthebard

The Mad Hatter wrote: »

Er...who cares if it's religious - great art is great art.

Well I would've thought the artists for one, hard to imagine they would make great art for something they weren't really arsed about.

Dades

brianthebard wrote: »

Well I would've thought the artists for one, hard to imagine they would make great art for something they weren't really arsed about.

Ahem - cha ching! Wealthy Renaissance patrons!

studiorat

EW Pugin and his Church design, Mozart's Masses, Faure's Pie Jesu kills me every time. (this is a nice version though the quality isn't great.

As for painting I like early coptic stuff (Icons) and Dante Gabriel Rossetti's Ecce Ancilla Domini is a particular fave of mine.



It's the angle appearing to the Virgin Mary.

The Mad Hatter

brianthebard wrote: »

Well I would've thought the artists for one, hard to imagine they would make great art for something they weren't really arsed about.

Well yes, but what I mean is that the work's intentions shouldn't bother us (as viewers/listeners) as long as the art itself is good.

I can think of at least two composers who either changed religion or lied about their religion to get work.

PDN

studiorat wrote: »

EW Pugin and his Church design, Mozart's Masses, Faure's Pie Jesu kills me every time. (this is a nice version though the quality isn't great.

As for painting I like early coptic stuff (Icons) and Dante Gabriel Rossetti's Ecce Ancilla Domini is a particular fave of mine.



It's the angle appearing to the Virgin Mary.

OMG! What a horrible painting! I would have thought Dawkins would include that in one of his litanies of the evils of religion. It's almost enough to make me wish religion had never existed.

One man's meat is another man's poison. I prefer this:

Mena

PDN wrote: »

OMG! What a horrible painting! I would have thought Dawkins would include that in one of his litanies of the evils of religion. It's almost enough to make me wish religion had never existed.

One man's meat is another man's poison. I prefer this:

That's done really well.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

christianity... more than just a death cult.

that picture is terrifying.

Earthhorse

studiorat wrote: »

It's the angle appearing to the Virgin Mary.

Ah yes, I remember that from my bible.

Didn't he teach her geometry?

rainbow kirby

To echo a sentiment already felt - great art is great art, regardless of whether it is religious or not.

robindch

PDN wrote: »

One man's meat is another man's poison. I prefer this

Not my cup of tea, poisoned or otherwise, I have to say. And one's never quite sure with Dali anyway -- that pic could be read in many ways, most of them scary or weird, so it's arguable that he's accurately reflecting the same characteristics in christianity itself.

Anyhow, good art inspired by religion?

In no particular order -- a lot of church architecture up to something around the start of the 20th century, especially the cathedrals of northern France and Pugin's cathedral in Killarney. Much of organ music from its earliest beginnings to Messiaen's spectacular earlier work as well as choral and organ music from others too: Gregorian chant and the monastic daily round, Bach's Passions (but not most of his choral preludes), the various masses of Janacek, Vierne, Langlais, Litaize, Duruflé's remarkable "Requiem", most of Palestrina, Tallis' 'Spem in Alium'. Much of medieval visual art and on the literature side, the KJV and little else.

Then there's the first edition of Fitgerald's translation of Omar Khayyam's Rubaiyat, inspired against religion rather than for it, of course. Nobody who's ever visited this forum or the Other Place could fail to resonate with quatrain 27:

Old Omar wrote:

Myself when young did eagerly frequent
Doctor and Saint, and heard great Argument
About it and about: but evermore
Came out by the same Door as in I went.

DublinWriter

I really love the Qawwali music of the Islamic Sufis. The most famous proponent of this would have been the late great Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan.

I also have a soft-spot for early 20th Century American Religious folk music. I have this box set which is well worth getting.

Fanny Cradock

DublinWriter wrote: »

I really love the Qawwali music of the Islamic Sufis. The most famous proponent of this would have been the late great Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan.

I also have a soft-spot for early 20th Century American Religious folk music. I have this box set which is well worth getting.

Sounds very much like the folk archive compiled by Alan Lomax (including recordings from Ireland) over a 60 year period.

Zillah

PDN wrote: »

One man's meat is another man's poison. I prefer this:

Y'know, if that were to appear over every major city on Earth I'd find it fairly convincing of the existence of the Christian God. Far more impressive a display for an almighty deity than, say, helping little Jimmy pass his leaving cert.




That's like, the most Celtic looking Jew I have ever seen. Also, isn't Gabriel a male?

DesignLady

brianthebard wrote: »

Well I would've thought the artists for one, hard to imagine they would make great art for something they weren't really arsed about.

A lot of artists and architects weren't religious but wanted to paint the classic subjects or have the opportunity to work on an interesting project.
I've just been reading "The Art of the Sacred" by Graham Howes and there's an entire chapter dealing with this.
The whole relationship between art and religion and the question of if it's neccessary to believe in one to create or understand the other is the theme of the book. I'd recommend it to anyone with an interest in art history and this topic.

One of the few good things about my enforced Catholic education is a better ability to understand themes and iconography in religious art and architecture.

studiorat

Well PDN, That Dali thing is just freaky. Were you a Heavy Metal fan in your youth or something?

Zillah wrote: »

That's like, the most Celtic looking Jew I have ever seen. Also, isn't Gabriel a male?

Celts were a mix of races, I don't think there really is a Celtic look apart from a big beard and a kilt or something...


Celt


Jew...

She looks like neither.


And Gabriel was a bleedin' angel, they don't have male and female ones. Were you out that day in school or something...

studiorat

DublinWriter wrote: »

I really love the Qawwali music of the Islamic Sufis. The most famous proponent of this would have been the late great Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan.

I spent a week recording Sufi music in Morocco this year, it was a real eye opener staying in a village in the mountains with those people.

AtomicHorror

The Mad Hatter wrote: »

Mozart - Requiem

+1

Particularly the "Lacrimosa" movement.

I'd also echo the previous sentiment's on that Caravaggio as well as St. Peter's Basilica. I visited it at the age of 18 and was simply dumbstruck by the scale and detail of it.

robindch

robindch wrote: »

...Duruflé's remarkable "Requiem"...

for anybody at a loose end this evening at eight, the Christchurch cathedral choir and the orchestra of St. Cecilia are doing this brilliant piece of music in the cathedral. Together with Mozart's Requiem. More at:

http://cccdub.mhsoftware.com/ViewItem.html?detail=0&dropdown=1&integral=0&show_stop=0&show_resources=0&style_sheet=littlecalStyle.css&style_sheet=littlecalStyle.css&dtwhen=2454756&cal_item_id=31713

Faintly based upon, but better written, than the much better-known Requiem of Fauré of 50-odd years earlier, in terms of impact, Duruflé's outing compares (...casts about...) with Orff's Carmina Burana. Diametrically opposed styles, textures and intents of course, but just as spine-tingling.

Highly recommended.

Fanny Cradock

Ah, I would really have liked to have gone to this. Any other recommendations (in a similar vein), robin?

JC 2K3

Hmmm....

studiorat

^^^

Posted a similar photo as a myspace avatar a few years back. It was removed, I guess Tom's a fundamentalist then...

Zillah

studiorat wrote: »

She looks like neither.

She has fair skin and auburn hair, that's very Western European, rather than Middle Eastern which the ancient Jews certainly were.

And Gabriel was a bleedin' angel, they don't have male and female ones. Were you out that day in school or something...

Gabriel is specifically referred to as a he.

studiorat

Oh! Come off it.
I think it's a great painting. It's a religious picture, when have they ever been accurate representations of anything?

There's plenty of folk in the near east who have a light enough skin tone and are plug ugly enough to saunter 'round any town in Ireland and pass for a local. Don't get caught up with that stereo type. There's been people passing through those reigions for millennia.

I can't believe I'm entertaining this...
I'm sure Rosetti was thinking more about how beautiful it looked rather than an ethnic representation.

The Gabriel in the picture is male, either that or a womens olympic arm wrestler...

Pompey Magnus

I do like quite like the Latin mass, I attended one in London a few years ago and it was quite an experience, the church was quite dimly lit with lots of candles and a slight smell of incense in the air, it was very relaxing and easy on the mind. Gregorian chants can be amazing to listen to and there are so many beautiful old style churches and monastries.

From the Bible there are plenty of amazing passages, for example it would be hard to equal the beautiful chapter Paul wrote to the Corinthians on love:

"Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres...And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love."

The Mad Hatter

robindch wrote: »

for anybody at a loose end this evening at eight, the Christchurch cathedral choir and the orchestra of St. Cecilia are doing this brilliant piece of music in the cathedral. Together with Mozart's Requiem. More at:

http://cccdub.mhsoftware.com/ViewItem.html?detail=0&dropdown=1&integral=0&show_stop=0&show_resources=0&style_sheet=littlecalStyle.css&style_sheet=littlecalStyle.css&dtwhen=2454756&cal_item_id=31713

Faintly based upon, but better written, than the much better-known Requiem of Fauré of 50-odd years earlier, in terms of impact, Duruflé's outing compares (...casts about...) with Orff's Carmina Burana. Diametrically opposed styles, textures and intents of course, but just as spine-tingling.

Highly recommended.

Vamp!

I do love Duruflé's requiem - his textures have such wonderful silkiness to them.

Haven't actually heard Fauré's, but as I don't really like Fauré, that's hardly a surprise...

PDN

studiorat wrote: »

Well PDN, That Dali thing is just freaky. Were you a Heavy Metal fan in your youth or something?

I was a punk.

But I've always enjoyed Dadaist & surrealist art.

DenMan

I love the architecture in Vienna. I also love Barcelona, especially Gaudi's unfinished masterpiece, Iglesia de Sagrada Familia. Was there in 02. Would love to go back.

When I lived in Malta I went to mass (I know) with the man I was working for. It was in Maltese. The inside was amazing.