Circus Protesters

lindtee

To the people I saw yesterday protesting against cruel treatment to animals outside a circus in my local area(whose flyer states "now even more animals")-

GOOD ON YOU!!!

I refuse to bring my children to circuses which have animals(actually they've never been to a circus of any sort!)

JoeySully

I never went to the circus when i was a child and now i like going every so often but was very dissapointed recently when all they had was little ponys no elephants or anything exotic

cowzerp

i agree, they should be banned in ireland-cruel and unnecessary..

Honey-ec

Absolutely agree 100%.

JoeySully, do you really think that a life lived between trailers and a noisy tent is the ideal environment for an elephant???

The_Minister

I used to love all the different animals...:(

Why steal my childhood?

Run_to_da_hills

Some county councils have banned the use of council property for live animal circuses.

Vegeta

Honey-ec wrote: »

Absolutely agree 100%.

JoeySully, do you really think that a life lived between trailers and a noisy tent is the ideal environment for an elephant???

Just to play devil's advocate as I like it,

Do you really think living indoors or trapped in a garden with the odd walk is any sort of life for a dog?

Disclaimer: I am not saying the circus is a cruelty free environment, as I simply don't know enough about it.

cowzerp

Vegeta wrote: »

Just to play devil's advocate as I like it,

Do you really think living indoors or trapped in a garden with the odd walk is any sort of life for a dog?

Disclaimer: I am not saying the circus is a cruelty free environment, as I simply don't know enough about it.

dogs are domesticated animals, elephants are wild and are been used for profit, how do you think they train the elephants, give them peanuts when they do a trick? i watched a program on circuses training animals and it was sick.

whitser

as long as the animals are well cared for i dont see a problem. lots of people keep exotic pets. not like they could be released into the wild,they'd die in no time. i think there could be some middle ground found. who'll look after the animals if the circus is banned?

stevoman

i dont mind the circus to be honest. i have always enjoyed it and i will be looking forward to taking my little girl to it aswell when she gets a little older.

whitser

to be honest these protesters wouldnt like any animals to be used in a circus wether its a elephant or a dog. its very easy to make sure the animals are well cared for.
of course its not ideal but either is a zoo, will we ban them too?

stevoman

whitser wrote: »

to be honest these protesters wouldnt like any animals to be used in a circus wether its a elephant or a dog. its very easy to make sure the animals are well cared for.
of course its not ideal but either is a zoo, will we ban them too?

very true. im my opinion a lot of protesting groups push their views in peoples faces (the icabs for example) and use a lot of underhanded tactics to get their points across and because of a lot of them i dont have much time for protesting groups.

Glowing

I'd love to see circus animals banned - in particular the cats and the elephants.

And yes, I wouldn't be too upset to see Zoo's banned too ..... or at least have MUCH stricter guidelines. At least with a zoo, you can rest assured that the staff will have some sort of training ....

whitser

cowzerp wrote: »

dogs are domesticated animals, elephants are wild and are been used for profit, how do you think they train the elephants, give them peanuts when they do a trick? i watched a program on circuses training animals and it was sick.

elephants have been domesticated as well,they are used in india as work animals. in fact they been used all over asia for thousands of years as work animals. as for profit, will we ban horse racing, greyhound racing etc....?
if the animals are being neglected by all means do something.

whitser

Glowing wrote: »

I'd love to see circus animals banned - in particular the cats and the elephants.

And yes, I wouldn't be too upset to see Zoo's banned too ..... or at least have MUCH stricter guidelines. At least with a zoo, you can rest assured that the staff will have some sort of training ....

there's room for middle ground. train staff,make sure animals are well looked after etc...
dont know why everything with these protesters in ban it, these same people probably disrupt horse races,greyhound races,countrysports etc...
they believe animals should have equal rights to humans.
if thats the case we shouldnt-eat them
wear them
fish them
hunt them
ride/race them
keep them as pets

lindtee

I don't agree with circuses having animals-thats why I wouldn't go. This particular circus has dumped animal faeces in our local rivers in the past too. I'm sorry but it seems like a rotten existance for an animal to be transported around the country and used to perform tricks for people-I'd like to be proved wrong on this one and find out the animals are happy and well cared for. I just find the whole idea of circus animals sad.

Have to admit that I do have membership to fota though-I think most of the animals seem to be taken care of and have good room to roam. However the ponds/lakes (whatever they are) are manky.

Horse racing and grey-hound racing I just find silly. Betting money on animals running around in a circle is daft(and don't tell me there are any other reasons than monetary ones for racing animals!) however for the most part I don't think these animals are being treated cruelly.

Vegeta

cowzerp wrote: »

dogs are domesticated animals, elephants are wild and are been used for profit, how do you think they train the elephants, give them peanuts when they do a trick? i watched a program on circuses training animals and it was sick.

So its ok to cage and keep imprisoned a domesticated animal but not a wild one. Why is that exactly?

What if the wild animal was treated very well?

What if the strain of circus elephants etc are domesticated? Does that suddenly make it ok?

Animals used for profit, treated like a commodity and kept in poor living conditions **cough.......farming......cough**

Number of animals in farming versus number of animals in the circus. I know where I'd be aiming my efforts anyway

Again I don't know how circus animals are treated generally or how they source them, I am just making the point that we are very quick to judge when we ourselves are often no better. There are much bigger fish to fry than the circus.

I am playing devil's advocate so please don't take anything personally, I just think there are better targets for animal cruelty campaigns than the circus and maybe these people are campigning there too but its not as visable to me anyway

Glowing

Racehorses generally aren't mistreated and treated like livestock, they're too expensive.

Now don't even talk to me about the greyhound racing industry ... the racing dogs might not be directly mistreated, but the industry it creates is sick. Thousands and thousands of healthy pups culled every year because they don't make the grade. Abandoned dogs, dogs beaten to death, dogs with their ears cut off and dumped, dogs with their tattoos burnt off with acid (yes, it happens regularly, would you like to see the pictures??) .. i could go on ...

So yes, I'd like to see that banned too. And I've no shame in admitting it either.

stevoman

lindtee wrote: »

I don't agree with circuses having animals-thats why I wouldn't go. This particular circus has dumped animal faeces in our local rivers in the past too.

is that just hear say or was there criminal proceedings taken against the circus?

stevoman

Glowing wrote: »

Racehorses generally aren't mistreated and treated like livestock, they're too expensive.

Now don't even talk to me about the greyhound racing industry ... the racing dogs might not be directly mistreated, but the industry it creates is sick. Thousands and thousands of healthy pups culled every year because they don't make the grade. Abandoned dogs, dogs beaten to death, dogs with their ears cut off and dumped, dogs with their tattoos burnt off with acid (yes, it happens regularly, would you like to see the pictures??) .. i could go on ...

So yes, I'd like to see that banned too. And I've no shame in admitting it either.

why ban it? its an ancient sport whom many enjoy (including myself and not for the betting reasons). intead of banning it why not have stricter regulations. is that not a middle ground instead of an out right ban.

Its the ban this ban that attitude by protesters that i cant understand or take. maybe if they just sat down and tried to find a good solution to everyones and the animals issues they might get some more support from people.

Whispered

Vegeta wrote: »

Do you really think living indoors or trapped in a garden with the odd walk is any sort of life for a dog?
it.

No it's not, and thats why there needs to be stricter laws on the keeping of animals, whether they are performing, domestic or farmed.

whitser wrote: »

as long as the animals are well cared for i dont see a problem. lots of people keep exotic pets. not like they could be released into the wild,they'd die in no time. i think there could be some middle ground found. who'll look after the animals if the circus is banned?

I would agree, if you can be assured that they are being well looked after. By their nature, circuses move around. They must be very very hard for animal rights officials to investigate. If the animals are badly treated there is nothing that can be easily done. So some people prefer not to go rather than risk supporting something that could so easily be cruelty.

whitser wrote: »

. as for profit, will we ban horse racing, greyhound racing etc....?
if the animals are being neglected by all means do something.

I would say that some of the best adjusted dogs I have ever come across are working dogs. So I don't disagree with racing hounds, I do disagree with the way the industry on a whole is regulated. And what happens to those dogs when they get too old, or get an injury. Again, it's a case of better law enforcement. On many occasions hounds have been picked up after being thrown out of cars. The IGB have been called, have confirmed that they can id the owner and said that STILL nothing can be done. How ridiculous is that?!?

whitser wrote: »

eat them
wear them
fish them
hunt them
ride/race them
keep them as pets

There are also people who think that if you pick fruit you're killing it, and they only eat food that has already dropped!!! There are extremes to both sides, I don't think not supporting animals circuses can be compared to the people who think we shouldn't eat them, wear them, fish them, hunt them, ride/race them, keep them as pets. (although I don't think we should eat them, hunt them or fish them. )

lindtee wrote: »

Horse racing and grey-hound racing I just find silly. Betting money on animals running around in a circle is daft(and don't tell me there are any other reasons than monetary ones for racing animals!) however for the most part I don't think these animals are being treated cruelly.

In fact the irish greyhound industry is extremly cruel. I don't know enough about the horse racing industry to comment.

whitser

Glowing wrote: »

Racehorses generally aren't mistreated and treated like livestock, they're too expensive.

Now don't even talk to me about the greyhound racing industry ... the racing dogs might not be directly mistreated, but the industry it creates is sick. Thousands and thousands of healthy pups culled every year because they don't make the grade. Abandoned dogs, dogs beaten to death, dogs with their ears cut off and dumped, dogs with their tattoos burnt off with acid (yes, it happens regularly, would you like to see the pictures??) .. i could go on ...

So yes, I'd like to see that banned too. And I've no shame in admitting it either.

wow wow wow. first of all dogs getting beaten and burned etc...is not the norm. just cos some pet owners abuse their pets,do all pet owners? and when greyhounds pups are put down its done quickly and humanely,in the vast majority of cases, and thats not cruel,not pleasent but its not cruel. any man who keeps greyhounds can only keep the best he's got, so should he fill shelters with the rest of put them or down humanely? fact is he cant afford to keep every pup he whelps and if no one else wants them cos they are too slow what can he do? pounds put down dogs every day,are they cruel?

Whispered

whitser wrote: »

wow wow wow. first of all dogs getting beaten and burned etc...is not the norm. just cos some pet owners abuse their pets,do all pet owners? and when greyhounds pups are put down its done quickly and humanely,in the vast majority of cases, and thats not cruel,not pleasent but its not cruel. any man who keeps greyhounds can only keep the best he's got, so should he fill shelters with the rest of put them or down humanely? fact is he cant afford to keep every pup he whelps and if no one else wants them cos they are too slow what can he do? pounds put down dogs every day,are they cruel?

wow wow wow, re-read what you just said. Disgusting. If they can't afford to keep them then, um, maybe, don't get the bloody dog pregnant in the first place. Believe me, it is the norm in the greyhound racing industry for dogs to be strayed or killed when no longer fast enough.

Glowing

Sure Stevoman, who's going to regulate it? What are they going to do with the leftover dogs? Ireland doesn't have homes for these apparent 'viscous breeds' (the shelters will tell you that). Who's going to pay to export them?

The IGB are useless - and while this sport exists, and the demand for fast dogs exist, there's always going to be backyard breeders trying to make a quick buck. If I had any confidence in the Irish regulatory boards, then I'd agree with you, definitely. But I don't see any other solution in this instance ...

Anyway, OFF TOPIC, SORRY

whitser

helena.ryan wrote: »

wow wow wow, re-read what you just said. Disgusting. If they can't afford to keep them then, um, maybe, don't get the bloody dog pregnant in the first place. Believe me, it is the norm in the greyhound racing industry for dogs to be strayed or killed when no longer fast enough.

i didnt say they're not killed but as long as its done quickly and painlessly its not cruel. pounds put down dogs every day,are they cruel?
im not even going to try and condone straying them or cutting off ears etc..thats cruelty.

stevoman

helena.ryan wrote: »

wow wow wow, re-read what you just said. Disgusting. If they can't afford to keep them then, um, maybe, don't get the bloody dog pregnant in the first place. Believe me, it is the norm in the greyhound racing industry for dogs to be strayed or killed when no longer fast enough.

but its also the norm in the horse racing industry to put down horses if they are injured. its also the norm in agriculture to kill off calves if they are of no use to dairy or beef. some calves can be bought in the mart for anything up to €10 and nobody will even buy them. yes all of this is cruel but to find solutions things have to be approached in a reasonable and understanding manner instead of stating here say that some greyhound men may do, tar everyone else with the same brush and then call for it to be banned. its no wonder with the "ban it" attidudes that so many people have, others will protest for it not to be banned and the arguement becomes black and white, wehre it should be on the grey areas that people should be disscussing and meeting halfway.

stevoman

Glowing wrote: »

Sure Stevoman, who's going to regulate it? What are they going to do with the leftover dogs? Ireland doesn't have homes for these apparent 'viscous breeds' (the shelters will tell you that). Who's going to pay to export them?

The IGB are useless - and while this sport exists, and the demand for fast dogs exist, there's always going to be backyard breeders trying to make a quick buck. If I had any confidence in the Irish regulatory boards, then I'd agree with you, definitely. But I don't see any other solution in this instance ...

but this is the issue that pricesly must be tackled instead of calling for complete bans. if this issue was tackled and regulated thourghaly then there would be no protests (although we all know somebody would have something to complain about), but all sides would have come together to make an effort to improve things.

stevoman

Glowing wrote: »

Sure Stevoman, who's going to regulate it? What are they going to do with the leftover dogs? Ireland doesn't have homes for these apparent 'viscous breeds' (the shelters will tell you that). Who's going to pay to export them?

on this note maybe some sort of breeders should licenses have to come into play for racing dogs. give them special chips and licenses. i bet this would stop your backyard breeders.

whitser

there's back yard breeders in every dog scene wether it be racing,hunting,pet what ever. but that doesnt meen everyone who breeds a litter is only after money.

Glowing

The Irish can hardly regulate their own hospitals! I hold no hope whatsoever for the greyhound industry.

No Whitser I agree with you there generally. But considering how few greyhounds are owned as domestic pets, you'd be safe in assuming that 99.9% of greyhound litters are produced to make money for syndicates or whatever....

stevoman

whitser wrote: »

there's back yard breeders in every dog scene wether it be racing,hunting,pet what ever. but that doesnt meen everyone who breeds a litter is only after money.

good point. twice i have mentioned that i would like to brred my dog on boards and twice i have been lambasted by other members for wanting to do so even to the point where some of them had infractions put on them. not all breeders are bad.

but in some cases of regulated racing would a sppecial registration of dogs not be a good idea. all race horses have passports (including full body and head pictures).

all cattle have passports too.

Whispered

whitser wrote: »

i didnt say they're not killed but as long as its done quickly and painlessly its not cruel. pounds put down dogs every day,are they cruel?
im not even going to try and condone straying them or cutting off ears etc..thats cruelty.

The pounds and what happens to the animals in them is cruelty, yes. I can see that there is no other option a lot of the time, but you cannot compare a pound, which is taking in unwanted dogs, trying to rehome them and if failing, putting them to sleep, with a man who breeds dogs knowing that 4 out of 5 (what is the ratio?) will have to be put to sleep. The pound is cleaning up someone elses mess, the breeder who kills the dogs who don't make the grade are clearing up a mess that they should not make in the first place. Can you see why people would have moral issues with this?

stevoman wrote: »

but its also the norm in the horse racing industry to put down horses if they are injured. its also the norm in agriculture to kill off calves if they are of no use to dairy or beef. some calves can be bought in the mart for anything up to €10 and nobody will even buy them. yes all of this is cruel but to find solutions things have to be approached in a reasonable and understanding manner instead of stating here say that some greyhound men may do, tar everyone else with the same brush and then call for it to be banned. its no wonder with the "ban it" attidudes that so many people have, others will protest for it not to be banned and the arguement becomes black and white, wehre it should be on the grey areas that people should be disscussing and meeting halfway.

I also think the farming industry is disgusting TBH so you're preaching to the converted. But I agree that the more people pushing for or against a ban on circuses, farming, racing etc the bigger the divide becomes. However, sad as it makes me, it is the norm for greyhound men to treat their dogs like this, I grew up with it. At one stage my father had 18 unwanted hounds! The people who did not treat their dogs like this, did not bat an eyelid at people who did. So it must be the norm. That is what I have seen anyway. Look at the statistics of how many racing hounds vanish every year. There are huge numbers who loose a race and are simply never heard of again. Where do they go? Normally?

stevoman wrote: »

but this is the issue that pricesly must be tackled instead of calling for complete bans. if this issue was tackled and regulated thourghaly then there would be no protests (although we all know somebody would have something to complain about), but all sides would have come together to make an effort to improve things.

Fully agree, starting with better government legislation. And proper punishments for people who are caught breaking the law.

whitser

Glowing wrote: »

The Irish can hardly regulate their own hospitals! I hold no hope whatsoever for the greyhound industry.

No Whitser I agree with you there generally. But considering how few greyhounds are owned as domestic pets, you'd be safe in assuming that 99.9% of greyhound litters are produced to make money for syndicates or whatever....

most litters are bred because a breeder wants to improve his stock. then there'll be surplus pups left over for sale. of course there is money to be made but if your rearing and looking after your dogs right it'll be eaten up in costs. the vast majority of grey hound men make very little money at what they do, its purely a sport to them a lifestyle. like every scene/sport that involves animals there's people who do things right and those who dont.
this is all nothing to do with elephants though, unless we start racing them.

whitser

helena.ryan wrote: »

The pounds and what happens to the animals in them is cruelty, yes. I can see that there is no other option a lot of the time, but you cannot compare a pound, which is taking in unwanted dogs, trying to rehome them and if failing, putting them to sleep, with a man who breeds dogs knowing that 4 out of 5 (what is the ratio?) will have to be put to sleep. The pound is cleaning up someone elses mess, the breeder who kills the dogs who don't make the grade are clearing up a mess that they should not make in the first place. Can you see why people would have moral issues with this?

I also think the farming industry is disgusting TBH so you're preaching to the converted. But I agree that the more people pushing for or against a ban on circuses, farming, racing etc the bigger the divide becomes. However, sad as it makes me, it is the norm for greyhound men to treat their dogs like this, I grew up with it. At one stage my father had 18 unwanted hounds! The people who did not treat their dogs like this, did not bat an eyelid at people who did. So it must be the norm. That is what I have seen anyway. Look at the statistics of how many racing hounds vanish every year. There are huge numbers who loose a race and are simply never heard of again. Where do they go? Normally?

Fully agree, starting with better government legislation. And proper punishments for people who are caught breaking the law.

we're on totally different planets so. i dont think its cruel to kill/put down an animal once its humane. if the greyhound men didnt put down the unwanted dogs the pounds would have to do it,same difference. theres not enough homes as it is for unwanted greyhounds,what would it be like if none were put down?

AngelicRaindrop

stevoman wrote: »

but its also the norm in the horse racing industry to put down horses if they are injured. its also the norm in agriculture to kill off calves if they are of no use to dairy or beef. some calves can be bought in the mart for anything up to €10 and nobody will even buy them. yes all of this is cruel but to find solutions things have to be approached in a reasonable and understanding manner instead of stating here say that some greyhound men may do, tar everyone else with the same brush and then call for it to be banned. its no wonder with the "ban it" attidudes that so many people have, others will protest for it not to be banned and the arguement becomes black and white, wehre it should be on the grey areas that people should be disscussing and meeting halfway.

sorry here now but you make it sound like if a horse gets a scratch racing its put down... Horses are completely different to cats or dogs in their veterinary needs. for the most part if a horse is put down its because theres no way its going to come sound again.

horses cant really go on 3 legs! they cant give a fracture time to heal properly! no matter how badly broken a leg is or a dislocated hip etc. a horse will always have to put some pressure on it to walk and get around.

Im not a fan of horse racing, but go take a tour around coolmore stud, talk about state of the art!

i know most horses dont make the grade, but those what we call OTTB or off track thoroughbreds are reschooled and make excellent riding horse! look one of pippa funnels best event horses was an OTTB sold on because he was so laid back he didnt care about going fast enough to win

yes some are put down, you cant help that, there will always be some horses that are used for meat but the vast majority go to good knowledgable homes. and have great success in their new careers.

Glowing

See my sig! Don't talk to me about elephants either!!

stevoman

AngelicRaindrop wrote: »

sorry here now but you make it sound like if a horse gets a scratch racing its put down... Horses are completely different to cats or dogs in their veterinary needs. for the most part if a horse is put down its because theres no way its going to come sound again.

instead of hijacking the thread try reading back through my other posts.

first of all how did i say if a horse gets as much as a scratch they are put down.

second of all the whole point i am trying to make is that there is no sense in going around trying to ban circuses, greyhound racing, horse racing, etc. the point im tying to make that there is room for improvment in everyone of these things and banning out right banning is not the answer.

Honey-ec

Just to get slightly back on-top, Mary Chipperfield was convicted of cruelty to animals a few years back. If one of the biggest circus families in the country are treating their animals in this manner, I really don't place any great faith in the ability of circuses to self-regulate.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/plight-of-the-animals-with-the-tentup-lifestyle-417155.html

EGAR

I've got two OTTB's here, both were destined for dogmeat. And there is nothing wrong with both of them. Ever since I took the first one in, I have been bombarded with offers to take in another one and another one. So don't you tell me they *don't make the grade*, they are being disposed of just like GH's.

TB industry is just as despicable as the GH industry and both get vast sums of money from the Irish government, whereas those who are left to pick up the pieces after them are left with a pittance to be shared at the end of the year (if you are lucky!).

boomerang

From www.limerickanimalwelfare.com

"Thousands of Irish greyhounds are destroyed each year. Bord na gCon (The Irish Greyhound Board) has admitted that 8,000 dogs die each year due to "natural wastage" i.e. injuries and diseases. This figure does not include the initial cull of young dogs that are not registered. Greyhounds are a very healthy breed and would normally live to be at least 14 years old. In 2006, 4,481 litters of greyhound pups were registered in Ireland. If we estimate six to seven pups per litter we get a figure of 31,367 pups. Only 23,700 of these pups were registered to race. These figures suggest that 7,667 pups never made it to the racing track. This figure is on the conservative side as it is calculated on seven pups per litter.The average greyhound litter is seven to ten pups. The issue of young greyhounds that do not make it to the tracks is a huge area of concern. Hundreds of pups are too slow to grade, some don't chase, other get injured and never make it to the first trials. In addition, at least 8,000 adult greyhounds leave racing and "retire" each year. When we add the unaccounted for puppies to the adult "retired" dogs, we get a figure of approximately 16,000 greyhounds that are surplus to the industry's requirements each year."

16,000 dogs each year ...

whitser

if someone is caught, throw the book at them. it'll soon stop. there's a right and wrong way to do everything.
as far as circus go, i was brought as a kid and i've brought mine and will in the future. i'd rather the zoo to see exotic animals but the little snots love the candy floss, what can you do! only problem i have is the price if everything,but i'd say their food bill is quite high.

Glowing

What are OOTB's and TB's?

Whispered

whitser wrote: »

we're on totally different planets so. i dont think its cruel to kill/put down an animal once its humane. if the greyhound men didnt put down the unwanted dogs the pounds would have to do it,same difference. theres not enough homes as it is for unwanted greyhounds,what would it be like if none were put down?

Well on my planet then the moral and sensible thing to do would be to limit the amount of hounds who are bred, have each litter registered and have the owners answerable to what happens to each individual in that litter. It's a case of responsible ownership. If your dog is good enough to be bred from, and I mean from a good line, not winning one or two races, then you wont have much problem shifting the pups, it's the fools who have one good dog out of a litter and who goes on to breed this dog that is causing the problem.

Honey-ec

whitser wrote: »

the little snots love the candy floss, what can you do!

Bring them to a non-animal circus???

whitser

boomerang wrote: »

From www.limerickanimalwelfare.com

"Thousands of Irish greyhounds are destroyed each year. Bord na gCon (The Irish Greyhound Board) has admitted that 8,000 dogs die each year due to "natural wastage" i.e. injuries and diseases. This figure does not include the initial cull of young dogs that are not registered. Greyhounds are a very healthy breed and would normally live to be at least 14 years old. In 2006, 4,481 litters of greyhound pups were registered in Ireland. If we estimate six to seven pups per litter we get a figure of 31,367 pups. Only 23,700 of these pups were registered to race. These figures suggest that 7,667 pups never made it to the racing track. This figure is on the conservative side as it is calculated on seven pups per litter.The average greyhound litter is seven to ten pups. The issue of young greyhounds that do not make it to the tracks is a huge area of concern. Hundreds of pups are too slow to grade, some don't chase, other get injured and never make it to the first trials. In addition, at least 8,000 adult greyhounds leave racing and "retire" each year. When we add the unaccounted for puppies to the adult "retired" dogs, we get a figure of approximately 16,000 greyhounds that are surplus to the industry's requirements each year."

16,000 dogs each year ...

its alot of dogs. how many do the pound put down? will we ban keeping dogs as pets because some people drop them at a pound when they dont want them? if the greyhound men didnt put the dogs down the pound would have to, so no difference.

whitser

Honey-ec wrote: »

Bring them to a non-animal circus???

why? i dont have a problem with the circus. as long as the animals are well looked after, and im sure they are. will we ban exotic pets?

Honey-ec

whitser wrote: »

its alot of dogs. how many do the pound put down? will we ban keeping dogs as pets because some people drop them at a pound when they dont want them? if the greyhound men didnt put the dogs down the pound would have to, so no difference.

Whitser, I'm beginning to think you're being deliberately obtuse here. The reason that the pounds destroy so many dogs is not as a result of people keeping them as pets, it's because of irresponsible breeding and the innate reluctance of Irish people to spay and neuter.

If people would just adopt a bit of cop on about breeding in general than the issue of dog over-population - both in Greyhound racing and in "civilian" life - could finally be addressed.

Glowing

I just don't think people should be breeding animals when they don't have the resources to look after them, regardless of their purpose. There's something inherintly wrong with an industry when it's deemed okay to breed dogs when there's a good chance a majority of them won't see their second birthday. Beautiful, healthy pups ... such a shame.

That volume of dogs shouldn't be bred in the first place.

boomerang

EGAR wrote: »

TB industry is just as despicable as the GH industry and both get vast sums of money from the Irish government, whereas those who are left to pick up the pieces after them are left with a pittance to be shared at the end of the year (if you are lucky!).

Yup, a shocking 30% of the Minister for Sport's budget goes to supporting the Irish horse racing and greyhound racing industries... Why? Because these two industries bring in MILLIONS for the Irish Exchequer.

30 per cent... Just think of it. When most towns don't have any decent public sports facilities! Where would we be without the GAA and other organisations/clubs that do their own fundraising, and the the Lotto funds?

Honey-ec

whitser wrote: »

why? i dont have a problem with the circus. as long as the animals are well looked after, and im sure they are. will we ban exotic pets?

And how are you going to check that they're well looked after? I'm sure most of the punters going to Chipperfield's circus thought the animals were being well looked after too.

whitser

helena.ryan wrote: »

Well on my planet then the moral and sensible thing to do would be to limit the amount of hounds who are bred, have each litter registered and have the owners answerable to what happens to each individual in that litter. It's a case of responsible ownership. If your dog is good enough to be bred from, and I mean from a good line, not winning one or two races, then you wont have much problem shifting the pups, it's the fools who have one good dog out of a litter and who goes on to breed this dog that is causing the problem.

i agree with some of what you've said. and i've said from the start there can be middle ground. im not involved in greyhound racing by the way, so its hard for me to speak competently on their behalf. but sometimes dogs will need to be put down and as long as its humane its better then straying them or leaving them to a pound where the outcome is the same...dead dog.