L-plates, R-plates, provisional licenses

plastic-man

applied for theory and its end of sep, looking at cars atm and i also think ive found one. thing is though i will be commuting from Drumcondra to UCD every morning and ill have my L plates. what are your views on this, as I am aware of the new laws? I hate the bus so much...

Gregor Samsa

I assume you're talking about the accompaniment rule.

If you get caught driving unaccompanied (by a Full Licence holder of at least 2 years standing) on a Learner Permit, you risk a €1000 fine.
If you get caught driving without L plates on a Learner Permit (in order to reduce you're chance of being caught for the above), you risk a further €1000 fine.

Some people say the Guards are taking it easy on Learners and won't bother with them unless they're caught for something else. Others say that they know of Guards clamping down on learners.

As to whether this is an acceptable risk - well, that's up to you. Personally, the chance of being €1000 out of pocket would convince me to stick to the bus until I got the full licence sorted out, but then I'm not actually in your position.

BTW, there are no R plates, nor concrete plans to introduce them, in the Republic.

plastic-man

so you cant get imprisonment or penalty points for driving unaccompanied with your Lplates up?

Mr. Presentable

Take the bus. Getting caught once would pay a lot of bus fares.

Gregor Samsa

plastic-man wrote: »

so you cant get imprisonment or penalty points for driving unaccompanied with your L plates up?

Q: What is the penalty if a learner driver drives unaccompanied?
A: It is a penal offence and is punishable by a fine not exceeding €1,000 for a first offence.

Source: http://www.rsa.ie/Home/upload/File/Changes%20to%20the%20Driver%20Licensing%20System%20Effective%2030%20June%202008%20rev.pdf

No points, no prison just a max €1,000 fine - but as a penal offence it would involve prosecution and a court appearance. I assume that a second or subsequent conviction could see more serious penalties.

craichoe

plastic-man wrote: »

applied for theory and its end of sep, looking at cars atm and i also think ive found one. thing is though i will be commuting from Drumcondra to UCD every morning and ill have my L plates. what are your views on this, as I am aware of the new laws? I hate the bus so much...

I hate this crap .. blah blah blah .. i don't like the bus .. why do i have to wait to pass a test ..

Its so you dont kill yourself !

Gregor Samsa

plastic-man wrote: »

thing is though i will be commuting from Drumcondra to UCD every morning and ill have my L plates. what are your views on this, as I am aware of the new laws? I hate the bus so much...

By the way, since you specifically asked for people's views on this, I agree with craichoe and think that you should comply with the law that has been put in place to help make the roads a safer place for all of us, I think the penalty is fair and I think it should be rigorously enforced.

graduate

One hopes the Gardai will have the wit to set up the odd checkpoint in the vicinity of UCD, DCU etc, as these places will have an above average number of chancers.

And driving across town is not particularly fun in any case.

L-M

Having recenlty passed my test i know what you will go through. But it's painful, and has to be done. When they enforced it, i stopped driving unless i had someone with me or i just had to.
It's hard and has to be done. If it'll be your first time driving i don't reccomend you just hop into your car and start driving in and out to college, get some experience first with a trained professional and go and pass your test.

On the other hand, if you want to drive unaccompanied and therefore breaking the law, so be it. There is no questions on people's views. It is the law.

plastic-man

craichoe wrote: »

I hate this crap .. blah blah blah .. i don't like the bus .. why do i have to wait to pass a test ..

Its so you dont kill yourself !

First of all I'd comment on your observational skills, I never questioned why I had to take a test! Also the system isn't exactly safe, I mean I could pass my theory, get my provisional license and hop into a car with my Dad (having never, ever driven a car before).. Would you consider me safe on the road.. Nah .. I don't exactly feel having a fully licensed driver will stop me from swerving onto a path as, at the end of the day, I'd be in control of the car. Furthermore, one should notice the smell of S**t on the number 11B bus.

blackbox

I sympathise with your dislike of public transport.

I disliked it so much I rode a pushbike across town until I had saved up for a car. I already had passed the test in my parent's car but in the 70s the price of cars and insurance was prohibitive.

If you can't stand public tranport, find an alternative that isn't illegal and doesn't put other road users at risk.

With waiting lists down, you could have your licence within a couple of months.

Seth Brundle

craichoe wrote: »

I hate this crap .. blah blah blah .. i don't like the bus .. why do i have to wait to pass a test ..

Its not like the wait is as long as it used to be
http://www.drivingtest.ie/Stats%20English.pdf

Holsten

Don't do it, it's against the law.

Wossack

blackbox wrote: »

With waiting lists down, you could have your licence within a couple of months.

with the new laws, it'll be a minimum of 6

plastic-man

yeah but so is smuggling smokes.. apparently a learner driver has to have 12 months on road before applying for driving test, Is that Bull**** or true?

L-M

plastic-man wrote: »

yeah but so is smuggling smokes.. apparently a learner driver has to have 12 months on road before applying for driving test, Is that Bull**** or true?

That's bs. You can apply for it day 1, and have it for your six months date. You can have your full licence after you have held your learners permit for 6 months.

The worst of it is yo don't even need to drive. All you have to do is get the licence, do the test, get your full licence and have no more road experience than the lads with six months driving under their belt. It's a system with loop holes.

L1011

Problem is that you apply for a test on day 1, you will almost certainly get called before the 6 months!

L-M

MYOB wrote: »

Problem is that you apply for a test on day 1, you will almost certainly get called before the 6 months!

There's an "Other comments" section where you can write in the date when you reached your learners permit and when you a eligble to to the test.

Edit: My friend actually had to get the test changed three times before they actually gave him one outside his six months. The second one was 3 days before it, and he wouldn't of been allowed do the test. Bad form lol

Esel

Belfield (U.C.D.) is serviced by the following routes : 10 10a 11 11b 15x 17 2 25x 27x 3 32x 39b 39x 41x 46a 46b 46d 46n 46x 49x 50x 58x 65x 66x 70x 77x 84x.

If you hate the 11B so much, fuppin' get a different bus! And if by Sh!t you mean dope - stay downstairs! Admittedly not all of these buses travel via the city centre, but some do. You have a choice of buses from Cavendish Row/Parnell Sq. East, and could use a 90-minute ticket. For a person who is planning to go to college, what you seem to be planning is nothing short of incredibly stupid. Don't bother replying - I am not interested.

Alanstrainor

Just to clarify a few things.
1. They no longer hand out "provisional licenses", since the 31st of October 2007 you receive a "learner Permit".
2. As stated, you may apply for your test before the 6 months, however on the day of your test you must have held your permit for at least 6 months
3. There are no "R" plates, once you pass the driving test and receive your license, you are deemed to be a fully licensed driver, ie, no restrictions.

L-M

Alanstrainor wrote: »

Just to clarify a few things.
1. They no longer hand out "provisional licenses", since the 31st of October 2007 you receive a "learner Permit".
2. As stated, you may apply for your test before the 6 months, however on the day of your test you must have held your permit for at least 6 months
3. There are no "R" plates, once you pass the driving test and receive your license, you are deemed to be a fully licensed driver, ie, no restrictions.

And i think that raps up everything we need to say. Nicely put

plastic-man

esel wrote: »

Belfield (U.C.D.) is serviced by the following routes : 10 10a 11 11b 15x 17 2 25x 27x 3 32x 39b 39x 41x 46a 46b 46d 46n 46x 49x 50x 58x 65x 66x 70x 77x 84x.

If you hate the 11B so much, fuppin' get a different bus! And if by Sh!t you mean dope - stay downstairs! Admittedly not all of these buses travel via the city centre, but some do. You have a choice of buses from Cavendish Row/Parnell Sq. East, and could use a 90-minute ticket. For a person who is planning to go to college, what you seem to be planning is nothing short of incredibly stupid. Don't bother replying - I am not interested.

"not interested"? thats only because you dont believe in your argument. I've worked hard all summer for this, now I have money and am getting a car, buses are disgusting, smelly, infection-creeping bricks on the road, driven by (in general) obnoxious people. Il gladly get caught in traffic, with my own tunes on, enjoy the bus though :P

L-M

plastic-man wrote: »

"not interested"? thats only because you dont believe in your argument. I've worked hard all summer for this, now I have money and am getting a car, buses are disgusting, smelly, infection-creeping bricks on the road, driven by (in general) obnoxious people. Il gladly get caught in traffic, with my own tunes on, enjoy the bus though :P

But like i had to wait six months, and so with everyone else, i'm afraid so do you. I worked hard to get my car, but i still had to wait. It's the law, you have no choice but to obey it. Unless you want to write a big long letter and try get the law changed, i'd advise you just let time take it's course. And in the six months, make sure to take lesson and get a much experience as you can with a full licenced driver.

Best of luck

Alanstrainor

This is ridiculous, just because you have worked all summer and can afford a car you think you're entitled to break the law, and risk harming yourself and others. I think you need to take a moment to think about what exactly you're saying.
Get lessons, apply for your test and you could well have a full license in 6 months.

plastic-man

Alanstrainor wrote: »

This is ridiculous, just because you have worked all summer and can afford a car you think you're entitled to break the law, and risk harming yourself and others. I think you need to take a moment to think about what exactly you're saying.
Get lessons, apply for your test and you could well have a full license in 6 months.

"entitled to break the law", oh did i say that? obviously not! I personally feel it is a risk I am willing to take, and I will (with my learners permit) drive on my own at a stage where i feel i am able to drive safe. "risk of harming others" .. this wasn't always the way, Alanstrainor, people could drive unaccompanied years ago, has operating a car in recent times become more dangerous? (rhetorical question , but ill answer anyway)
No it hasn't, now all cars have more secure seat-belts and airbags.. although this is slightly off the thread topic..

Alanstrainor

plastic-man wrote: »

"entitled to break the law", oh did i say that?

Your whole thread revolves around breaking the law. You said, in this post:

it is a risk I am willing to take, and I will (with my learners permit) drive on my own

!!!!

Alanstrainor, people could drive unaccompanied years ago

No they could not, only those on second provisionals could drive unaccomp.

has operating a car in recent times become more dangerous?

It has always been dangerous.

now all cars have more secure seat-belts and airbags..

Yes, and this will help a pedestrian if you are unfortunate enough to misjudge a corner and end up on a path??
Really OP, i can't understand your rational.

challengemaster

plastic-man wrote: »

"entitled to break the law", oh did i say that? obviously not! I personally feel it is a risk I am willing to take, and I will (with my learners permit) drive on my own at a stage where i feel i am able to drive safe. "risk of harming others" .. this wasn't always the way, Alanstrainor, people could drive unaccompanied years ago, has operating a car in recent times become more dangerous? (rhetorical question , but ill answer anyway)
No it hasn't, now all cars have more secure seat-belts and airbags.. although this is slightly off the thread topic..

This may count as personal abuse, but you are an idiot. The law is the law, it doesn't matter what it WAS, it's what it is now that you and everyone else has to follow. Cop on before you kill someone else. I personally don't care if you kill yourself, as that's darwinism, but there's no reason someone else should die because of your stupidity.

Toots

I thought you had to have had a minimum of ten lessons or something like that before you'd be allowed to do your test? Did I imagine that?

Alanstrainor

Toots85 wrote: »

I thought you had to have had a minimum of ten lessons or something like that before you'd be allowed to do your test? Did I imagine that?

No, this is not the case. Lessons are not obligatory...unfortunately...

eringobragh

challengemaster wrote: »

This may count as personal abuse, but you are an idiot. The law is the law, it doesn't matter what it WAS, it's what it is now that you and everyone else has to follow. Cop on before you kill someone else. I personally don't care if you kill yourself, as that's darwinism, but there's no reason someone else should die because of your stupidity.

Second that...Plastic-man you've earned to put it mildly....the title 'Idiot of the Month' in my books.

plastic-man

Is it called "taking words out of context" when you do that? think so.. anyone can dissect an argument to make someone else look like an idiot.. come on! I said ,and if it wasnt clear enough I apologise for seeming ignorant, that i will drive when i feel I am not a threat to other drivers OR PEDESTRIANS. anyway your always going to be a threat be that, singing, tiredness, smoking, or just not having your mind on driving.. time is certainly not going to make you a super safe driver because when you think about it, someone can still go for a test having never ever driven before..

eringobragh

plastic-man wrote: »

that i will drive when i feel I am not a threat to other drivers OR PEDESTRIANS

Prove it and pass the test :rolleyes: .The Laws there for a reason and about time to be honest!!!

Alanstrainor

i will drive when i feel I am not a threat to other drivers OR PEDESTRIANS

That's the thing, everyone thinks they are a good driver, the only real proof that anyone knows how to control a car safely is the driving test. Not saying the driving test is perfect(that's a whole other kettle of fish), but it does set a standard.

plastic-man

i appreciate your opinion and I mean if i had a full license i would probably criticize people like me! But, I will try my best to pass my test asap, and until then i hope to drive safe

Wossack

I hope you get done tbh, absolutely lousy attitude

Esel

This is what the Ignore List was made for!

Heroditas

Students eh? :rolleyes:

Henry Ford III

Lousy attitude and contempt for the law displayed by OP. Foreshame.

pyramuid man

You need to give this guy a break. It seems like he has made up his mind and if he gets caught, he gets caught. Simple. I think some tips for driving safely in the city rather than blasting him out of it and saying that you hope he gets caught would be alot more helpful.

If he gets caught he know what will happen.

One thing I will say is that from my experience of it is that if you got caught this doesn't exactly mean no penalty points. As a general rule of thumb, if you get caught, they will do you for everything that they can do you for and you could get penalty points because of that.

ghouldaddy07

I think the amount of flak the op is getting is abit over the top of he wants to risk the 1000 fine so be it is not like he is saying its ok to drink and drive.

I realise its breaking the law but am sure posters that are getting agitated have drove with out of date tax etc or some other obstuction.


I would advise the OP to get a decent set of lessons by a qualifed instructor as I first got lessons of me da that thought me the basic's but when I got in an instructors car I realised I knew feck all and was a risk on the road.

mikemac

plastic-man wrote: »

" driven by (in general) obnoxious people.

What’s your problem with Dublin bus drivers?
Most are highly experienced and many pass advanced tests.
Whereas you’ve displayed your driving skill by …………………………done anything yet OP?

In my own experience of cycling or on a moped across the city, they are the best and most predictable drivers around.
Imagine, they actually use indicators when pulling out from a stop? :eek:

Do what you want OP, I would say leave the L plates up as it’ll go better for you if you are stopped.
And remember Operation Freeflow is not far away so the odds are getting stopped or at least pass gardai on duty are pretty much guranteed.

If I were you, I’d get a motorbike or scooter. Fastest way around the city by far and you won’t be crawling in traffic at all.

Gregor Samsa

pyramuid man wrote: »

You need to give this guy a break.

ghouldaddy07 wrote: »

I think the amount of flak the op is getting is abit over the top

In fairness, the OP specifically asked for people's views. And (s)he's getting them.

craichoe

plastic-man wrote: »

First of all I'd comment on your observational skills, I never questioned why I had to take a test! Also the system isn't exactly safe, I mean I could pass my theory, get my provisional license and hop into a car with my Dad (having never, ever driven a car before).. Would you consider me safe on the road.. Nah .. I don't exactly feel having a fully licensed driver will stop me from swerving onto a path as, at the end of the day, I'd be in control of the car. Furthermore, one should notice the smell of S**t on the number 11B bus.

A fully licensed driver in the car with you will have driving experience and will probably have done a basic test.

They are there to instruct you in the event you do something that may cause an accident.

Example: Driving along, you think everything is fine. Fully licensed driver comments your driving to far toward the middle of the road, you correct and learn.

In the event it looks like you're really going to mess up, like drive down a a one way road or maybe didn't notice the dual carriageway ended and your now on the wrong side of the road, or even perhaps driving WAY too fast for the road surface your on, THEY can point this out.

If your driving unaccompanied then you could drive away blissfully unaware that your driving like a complete and utter lunatic.

Anyway, besides the 1000 euro fine, its just plain dangerous. What if you run someone down because "you didn't know"

superjosh9

OP, apply for the test and then ring those over in Galways or wherever they are based. They will tell you that if you can get a letter of intent from an employer saying that you are to be given a job, but that you need a full licence, they will speed up the date of your test. It will be approx 1 month from when they get the letter. I know this for a fact as a relation did it in 2007.

The letter won't matter if it's from Microsoft or Joe's Shop down the road.

Doing that means that you could be on the road in 2 months or so.

I think you'll find a lot of people here, myself included, spent 6 years or so in college, and prob all of us took the bus. It certainly did me no harm and when I did finally get my own car, I appreciated it all the more. Although I got my test early, I didn't 'drive' until I was 24 and I was a far better 'learner' than the majority of so and so's you see going around at 18.

I'd say apply and wait. Why risk 1000 fine unless money isn't a problem. If money isn't a problem, I suspect you have a few more issues to attend to than getting a car.

Gregor Samsa

superjosh9 wrote: »

Doing that means that you could be on the road in 2 months or so.

While the letter form an employer works (I did it myself), you can't actually sit your test until you've held your Learner Permit for at least 6 months, so that's the minimum time it takes to legally get on the road on your own.

ergonomics

plastic-man wrote: »

"not interested"? thats only because you dont believe in your argument. I've worked hard all summer for this, now I have money and am getting a car, buses are disgusting, smelly, infection-creeping bricks on the road, driven by (in general) obnoxious people. Il gladly get caught in traffic, with my own tunes on, enjoy the bus though :P

I was feeling slightly sympathetic towards you until you posted this. To get to college I had to travel two and a half hours by bus. The bus was so packed you often had to stand for the first hour or more. When I got dropped in Limerick I had another half an hour to walk, in the dark. All through this I had a car but I was an L driver. I could only afford to get lessons during the summer, which I did. Now, three years later, I have finally passed my test and I have my car and I no longer need to get the bus.

You need to get down off your high horse and take the bus like everyone else. Just because you can afford to buy a car doesn't mean you can afford to drive it and flout the law. I honestly hope you get the €1000. I'd love to see how you can afford your car and your insurance then.

craichoe

ergonomics wrote: »

I was feeling slightly sympathetic towards you until you posted this. To get to college I had to travel two and a half hours by bus. The bus was so packed you often had to stand for the first hour or more. When I got dropped in Limerick I had another half an hour to walk, in the dark. All through this I had a car but I was an L driver. I could only afford to get lessons during the summer, which I did. Now, three years later, I have finally passed my test and I have my car and I no longer need to get the bus.

You need to get down off your high horse and take the bus like everyone else. Just because you can afford to buy a car doesn't mean you can afford to drive it and flout the law. I honestly hope you get the €1000. I'd love to see how you can afford your car and your insurance then.

+1

Gambling a 1000 euro fine and possibly an accident or killing someone is a false economy

plastic-man

I have enough views on this topic, and I can honestly say that this thread contains more bigots than a Celtic match! Clearly each person has to be judged on his own merits. Believe it or not there are some safer L-drivers than full-licensed drivers out there. I think I gave a lot of people an excuse to whinge and moan by starting this thread. Drive safe..

Mr. Presentable

plastic-man wrote: »

I have enough views on this topic, and I can honestly say that this thread contains more bigots than a Celtic match! Clearly each person has to be judged on his own merits. Believe it or not there are some safer L-drivers than full-licensed drivers out there. I think I gave a lot of people an excuse to whinge and moan by starting this thread. Drive safe..

Well, this is true.

But you still have absolutely no business driving while unlicensed.

Toots

Alanstrainor wrote: »

No, this is not the case. Lessons are not obligatory...unfortunately...

More's the pity Although there are some fairly dodgy instructors out there. One guy in particular I know of went out for a lesson with an instructor who was clearly drunk and actually reeked of whiskey. He got another instructor after that but he was told that this guy was actually really well known in the area and he'd been at that for years!!!!!:eek:

hot2def

plastic-man wrote: »

Clearly each person has to be judged on his own merits. ..

Word. They should come up with a method for assesing these merits....perhaps some sort of test......