How stupid???

Blue850

Anyone got a tax book for a Beetle

Max_Damage

"Imported from Mexico in 2002" and yet it has old Irish plates?

Not to mention it's RHD.

cantdecide

I've got a taxbook. Just let me print one off.

BrianD3

post edited in case I've libelled anyone

brosnadog

maybe im making an ass of myself, but am i missing something here? if hes claiming it an original irish car by the fact that is a 1972 car with old irish plates, why would he say "Imported from Mexico in 2002"?

Redrocket

nope, thats the whole point of the thread

mustang68

"This Other Other was added yesterday"

BrianD3

@ brosnadog, any chance you could edit the quoted text in your post to reflect my edit?

brosnadog

Henry Ford III

Looks very suspect.

peasant

This is what the '72 part of the beetle would look like (minus engine) ...al the rest came from mmehico

MercMad

This is blatant abuse of the system, the concession for 30+ year old cars will be jeopardised by fools who abuse things this way !

Then again.................did he break the law or is he just overtly exploiting the loopholes, and how could it be countered !

Posy

I can see that looks very suss but is the problem that he's passing off a 1972 restored Beetle as a new(ish) one imported from Mexico or that he's saying it's a 2002 car when it's really 36 years old? (sorry, love Beetles but totally dense about cars)

Max_Damage

Isn't this in the same league as people who put the body of a Land Rover Discovery on a 30+ year old chassis of a Range Rover, just to get cheap tax?

carchaeologist

Max_Damage wrote: »

Isn't this in the same league as people who put the body of a Land Rover Discovery on a 30+ year old chassis of a Range Rover, just to get cheap tax?

Not quite,those guys are using the chassis of the older land rover,which is totally legit as the reg stays with the chassis.i have a feeling that guy with the beetle is not using an older chassis,why would he,it would need a hell of alot of work to transplant the new shell to the old chassis,and i bet there would be differences aswell.

hi5

MercMad wrote: »

Then again.................did he break the law or is he just overtly exploiting the loopholes, and how could it be countered !

I think he is just exploiting loopholes,from my own experiences of government bodies i've often come away with the impression that exploiting loopholes is exactly what they want you to do.
In the UK for instance what can be done and what can't be done is clear cut.

There if you import a new car from outside the EU or build a car from scratch you can run it through the government established SVA system and have it legitimised.

If you can't determine the age of a vehicle,you can get a 'Q' plate.

If your building a kit car a point system exists to calculate what percentage of the car is original if its remains more than a set percentage then you can keep the original reg.

Nothing like this legislation exists in Ireland,we're a small country and it wouldnt be worth the expense,easier to turn a blind eye I suspect;)

PaulK_CCI

It's definitely a case of taking advantage of the loopholes in legislation. If the chassis of the original 72 beetle was used, then the car is totally legit and the owner (or person/company that rebuilt this car!!) is not breaking the law. Same goes for 1994 Classic Range Rover bodies, stuck on top of a 72-78 Range Rover chassis! Even though the car was 2 dr and is now 4 door, still perfectly legit according to the current legislation since registration goes with the Chassis. Whether we aggree with it and think it is justified, is an entirely different matter.

I mean, there is also the issue of people fitting V8 engines in Morris Minors? Good or bad, as long as it is allowed by law, there is nothing against other than personal like or dislike.

It's different in other European countries, as in most countries they have tried to close this loophole somewhat. I know in Holland, they have the socalled 2/3 rule. If a car is modified, it would have to remain true to the original by at least 2/3: that is chassis/body/engine. So if the body is swapped for a new Mexican beetle, then the chassis and engine would have to stay the same for the car to remain legit! If engine is upgraded, then chassis and body would have to remain 'period'.

If we start slating this sort of 'borderline loophole cruising', then don't forget that Ireland hasn't particularly tried very hard to stay close to the rest of Europe with their legislation, with introducing the NCT at a rediculously late stage, and then completely ignoring any vehicle over 30 years. I mean, personally I would be much more worried about all these 30+ year old bangers driving around in, what only can be called, a dangerous condition, just because of the fact that the government decided it was too complicated to introduce NCT testing for classic/vintage vehicles, and owners not bother to keep their vehicle in a roadworthy condition.

Dirty1

This isnt the first time I've seen this with Mexican Beetles in Ireland, some clain to swap the pans (chassis), why?? to avoid paying VRT! I cant see them going to all that bother to be honest, all very suspect IMO.

All you have to do is lift up the rear seat to locate the chassis number in the middle of the spine and see if it matchs the book and/ or if it looks fresh and tampered with!!

Cross referances for engine/ chassis numbers are available online!

There are some other VW's recently imported, rollig around on old Irish plates, would love to know how they get away with it, I'd rather have used my Granddads number from his 54 Bug, rather than the 54 WW ** Ive had to put on mine!

BrianD3

There if you import a new car from outside the EU or build a car from scratch you can run it through the government established SVA system and have it legitimised.

If you can't determine the age of a vehicle,you can get a 'Q' plate.

If your building a kit car a point system exists to calculate what percentage of the car is original if its remains more than a set percentage then you can keep the original reg.

Yep, and it's a similar story with write offs. Certain categories of write off cannot be repaired and put back on the road with the same registration. If they are repaired they are inspected by the VOSA and given a Q plate before being allowed back on the road. If a write off is returned to the road without complying with this process the reg will be flagged by the police ANPR and the driver will be in trouble.

Over here it seems pretty clear that you can transplant a new body onto an old chassis and the car retains the identity of the chassis. So as mentioned you get newish Landrover Discovery bodies on 30+ year old Landrover chassis.

But even if you use the new chassis and new body + old logbook or tamper with the identity of a monocoque vehicle I'm not sure what offence if any has been commited as long as no car has been stolen. Anyone got a legal reference? If the chassis number on the car does not match the number in the logbook or the chassis number is changed/removed, what happens? Is any of this stuff checked in the NCT? Of course a "new old" Landrover Discovery is exempt from the NCT anyway...

trevorbrady

on a similar note, the insurance certificates that get issued say that "the vehicle bearing the registration number 12 XX 3456 is insured", and describes the make and model. Say for example you have two beetles and one of them insured legitimately. If you transfer the plate from the insured one onto the other and go drive it, does the insurance now apply to the other car since it "bears the registration number" linked to the insurance cert?

No plans to try it out, it just seems to me there might be a bit of a glitch in the contract. I know insurance companies are notorious for wriggling out of payments on technicalities so I'm not going to try it out but I was curious about it...

carchaeologist

trevorbrady wrote: »

on a similar note, the insurance certificates that get issued say that "the vehicle bearing the registration number 12 XX 3456 is insured", and describes the make and model. Say for example you have two beetles and one of them insured legitimately. If you transfer the plate from the insured one onto the other and go drive it, does the insurance now apply to the other car since it "bears the registration number" linked to the insurance cert?

i thought of this before,its a very good point!Im sure theres a loophole to getout of it though.

Surely its illegal to use a taxbook of a scrap car on an import,i cant see how its not an offence?

corktina

my opinion: Land rover chassis are steel and rot...bodies are aluminium and dont....

and noone surely belives that the '72 chassis is actually used in the "new" beetle?,,,just the taxbook i think....happening all over and it is wrong.

mike65

So no one is annoyed at the installing of Golf seats then?

Mike.

carchaeologist

mike65 wrote: »

So no one is annoyed at the installing of Golf seats then?

Mike.

:D
Did the mexcan beetles not come with golf seats as standard?I know they had a golf steering wheel...

mustang68

Its in a garage on the dunboyne to summerhill road (meath) about a mile short of summerhill on the left. Drove past it yesterday, would have stopped if not for the monsoon