Is our marriage dead? Sorry this is soo long

anon4now

Have gone anon on this - you'll understand why if you read it
Looking for advice because outside i’m dancing but inside i feel like i’m drowning. We’ve been married for 23 years – got married because I was pregnant. Finished with him while pregnant but then, I don’t know, hormones kicked in, or fear of bringing up baby alone (i was 18, he was 23). He sort of moved in without discussion when our son was six months old. Then I got pregnant again and the families insisted on a wedding. Neither of us were really into it but “went along”. (there was a family feud in the middle of all this) Anyway, I got it together a lot, educated myself and eventually became a bit of a high flier, making good money in desirable permanent employment. One of the kids was very unwell and there was a lot of stress and sacrifice involved. We stopped going out and lost touch with friends. Anyway, our kids grew up and the younger one moved out recently. We even have a gorgeous granddaughter who we love very much and take care of most weekends (well, i do)... We don’t even drink alcohol anymore because there was a lot of alcoholism in both our backgrounds and we didn’t want our kids to have to go through that. When we went out together he pretended to like going dancing, walking, to the zoo and all that. In fact he doesn’t like to do much. He plays golf and loves it. I’ve tried to find things we’d both be interested in but he’s not willing to give them a go. We did try bowling, going to the cinema and all that but it just sort of fizzles out. He has worked at various low skill jobs but is not at all ambitious and is happy for me to work away while he works part time, plays golf, takes photos and cuts the grass.
He wasn’t really into the kids thing, didn’t attend births, didn’t stay at the hospital any of the times our child was very ill unless they said she was at deaths door.. At one point 17 years ago I was pregnant again (we still had great sex then). He said he would kill himself if we had another child. I believed him and (literally) got the boat to England, alone, killed our baby by abortion and came home and pretended it never happened.
I had a near fatal illness myself for the last couple of years from which i am now recovered and back at work because my payments would have been halved after 3 months out.He was kind when i wasn’t well. Looked after me and got me whatever i needed. But, I really don’t want to work so hard anymore. The job i do is high stress, high stakes (for clients) high pressure, high commitment (lots of extra hours worked with no overtime). I feel exhausted but the mortgage has to be paid, and it’s a big one because he wanted a house with a huge garden. I’d be happy enough with a small apartment/house in a quiet estate somewhere, and time to walk the dogs, do a bit of art and maybe something fun.. But, he won’t entertain the idea of doing two jobs or extra hours so that i can work towards doing less. He almost cries (seriously) when I ask him to consider it. I made a suggestion for him to make some extra cash recently (maybe 250pw) for two afternoons work, and even though it didn’t involve being outside or dealing with loads of people, and it would make a difference, he refuses to think about it. Says he can only do one job (even though he only works approx. 22 hrs pw) But he moans so much about things, even about the dogs defecating on his 2 acre lawns, or the cats playing with a bamboo plant, or about me smoking.
He isn’t one for romantic gestures. However, in other ways he’s steady as a rock. He remembers to buy milk, pick up dry cleaning and order coal. He’s vigilant about flowers on valentines day and our anniversary but it’s like it’s part of the routine if you know what I mean. We talk, about the kids, the house, stuff that has to be done around the place, but don’t really talk.
Lately I’ve been feeling really resentful. I’m not sure if i fancy him anymore really and sex is very rare, maybe once every 2/3 months. That seems to be mostly mutual, but is probably my fault because I don’t feel attracted to him so much and it takes a lot to get me going. I’ve put on a good bit of weight but people still think i’m goodlooking. I know this because besides friends and colleagues telling me i’d pass for 30, i still get compliments and the odd chat-up.
It all feels so empty. Leaving would be such a hassle, the kids and grandchild would be very upset, and there’d be no financial winners because we’re mortgaged up to the hilt. And for what? There’s no-one else, i’m not even interested in relationships. Sometimes i wish i were dead.

MagicMarker

anon4now wrote: »

He isn’t one for romantic gestures. However, in other ways he’s steady as a rock. He remembers to buy milk, pick up dry cleaning and order coal. He’s vigilant about flowers on valentines day and our anniversary.

Ladies and gentlemen, a round of applause please! Bravo!

The guy is taking you for a ride plain and simple. Why would he want it any other way when you're providing for him?

He told you he'd kill himself if you had another child? That's a mans man right there:rolleyes: Did he happen to suit up to prevent you falling pregnant in the first place?

The only reason you married was because of circumstance, ie, your first born. It doesn't sound like he cares about anything other than himself and he struck gold when you became a professional.

My advice to you would be to quit while you're ahead and give yourself the life you deserve with someone who will not bleed you dry.

*edit* you might want to clear up the post into paragraphs otherwise some people might not bother to read it.

Pherekydes

Read enough of it to understand you have 3 kids, not 2. The biggest should have moved out by now. Most parents - and that's what you are to him-would have asked him to get his own place by now. You've been too patient...

Beruthiel

anon4now
My heart goes out to you.
The most shocking thing for me is that you got on the boat to England because of him and for what? For a man who's happy to live off you. A man who sounds dead inside. A man who is going through the motions and has nothing to offer as a parther.
I would have seen red long ago at this stage.

You sound so very sad, I'm not surprised you feel empty inside.
You still have some life in you, you can make it happy with the will to do so.

Personally, there isn't a hope in hell that I would continue working as you do while he plays golf and cuts the grass.
Where is his back bone? Where is the partnership? Why should you burst a gut while he sits back and takes it easy?
I wouldn't stand for it.

Were I in your shoes, I'd tell him that you are no longer living like this.
Tell him you are miserable and you want to sell the big house, make a profit and buy a smaller place for cash.
That way ye can both have easy jobs and will only have to worry about the house hold bills. Make him see that it's either this or something more drastic.
Let him cry all he wants, this is reality check time.

As for your kids, they are now old enough to understand if you explain to them how you feel. They would not live like this, they will not expect you to do so. They love you and will wish you happiness.
Yes, it will upset them, but they are adults and will come to terms with it. They love you both, but most of all, they will wish you to be happy.

Most of all, do not do nothing because of how you think others will take this.
You get one life, don't make all of it about sacrifice, it's not the 1920's and you no longer have to suffer this kind of misery.

Do not think it's too late or you are too old, you are what, perhaps middle to late thirties?
You have plenty of time to do whatever that fantasy is in the back of your head all these years. I'm betting you have one too, so just go for it and let the cards fall where they may.
Sometimes in life we have to take a risk, a leap of faith to get where we need to be.
Take that risk, whatever happens, it can't be worse then it is now.

All the best.

not yet

Ok then......does your husband know how you feel, if not would it be helpful to talk to him,you seem to have some unresolved issues going back a long time and in fairness you seem both to blame. so it will take both of you to sort it.

Marksie

anon4now wrote: »

It all feels so empty. Leaving would be such a hassle, the kids and grandchild would be very upset, and there’d be no financial winners because we’re mortgaged up to the hilt. And for what? There’s no-one else, i’m not even interested in relationships. Sometimes i wish i were dead.

I am in full agreement with Beruthiel on this.

These two in bold are salient comments for me. Which tell me that things DO have to change, that this life of quiet desperation needs to be altered.

So look, there is someone else, someone very important and who has been neglected: Yourself.

Its time to begin to exert your independence and develop who you are. The trappings of society are just that : Trappings.

you have been under this yoke long enough, its time to move out from under and become whoh you can be.
You have done your duty to your kids, you have done your percieved duty to your husband.

It is time to do your duty to yourself.

Its also time for your husband to realise this and it WILL be a painful process for him. But necessary for him to learn.

dazberry

Your post has echos of my parents marriage and that ended after 23 years. I won't go into details here but in a similar fashion there was an inflexible partner who did little to contribute but always wanted their way but never actually wanted to do anything.

Hmm so that begs the question is your marriage over. You've obviously thought about this a lot and you realise the implications of this on a number of levels. Well you've 3 choices, leave, try change the situation or accept things as a given. If you are so unhappy then the last option isn't a runner. You understand the implications of leaving and ultimately it is a last resort. So really looking forward, its about changing what isn't working, marriage counciling, mediation etc - but its about 2 people - so both people have to contribute. My parents went and it didn't work because one wasn't interested but its worth a shot.

It is shocking that you're only 41 and feel like this, your shouldn't. You've invested enough years in this I reckon to give it one more shot - if it doesn't work well it won't have been from the lack of trying on your part.

D.

Karen_*

You've got only one life so you are not going to get the chance to do things different the next time around. Make the changes you need to make in order to get the very best out of this life. Yes you do have to consider other people but just this once put yourself first.

metalgear2k2

Yes, I'm afraid it is.

beth-lou

I'm sorry to read about your situation. You have been giving yourself to others for so long I bet you don't even know how to put yourself first. Your whole post was about how your actions have or could upset others. Well it's time for you to take a stand and think about what it is you want.

I'm not saying you have to leave your husband to do this. But when you've decided what it is that you want, and you gently and calmly tell him what this is, if he can not accept it, then perhaps you should. It would be easy to tell you to move out, move on, forget about everything and you're number one. But you're a mother and a wife and it won't be that easy.

Perhaps you should try counselling with your husband. But I'm not overly optimistic that he will change his ways. He sounds lazy, selfish and totally unconcerned about your well being. I found it hard to read about your trip to England. This must have been a heavy cross to bear and it is no wonder that you have a growing resentment. I think you should tell him about it, how it made you feel, how he has made you feel. What you feel about him and how his behaviour has impacted on you.

Your children must be in their twenties now and they will move out and start their own relationships and then you will be left in an empty house with man who has no interest in what you want, who you really are and how you feel. It will be very lonely for you, compounded by the fact that you are living with someone but actually you are still alone. Don't stay with him for the kids. You've done your job, they are grown up and now it is time to nurish your soul and explore the world as you want. You've worked hard enough and you deserve this.

You are still young. You can have such a wonderful and full life. The chance of romance is still there. Maybe not right away, but in the future. Or maybe your husband will have a wake up call. Maybe not. But you have to put the wheels into motion now for change. He is not going to do it. He can stay where he is or hop on board. Give him the choice. But you have to move on now. because where you are is a cold and barren place and there is so much out there if you can just be brave and reach for it.

Best of luck and big hugs. x

Macha

Beruthiel wrote: »

Tell him you are miserable and you want to sell the big house, make a profit and buy a smaller place for cash.

And this way, he can't use the excuse of cutting grass to get out of finding another job

On a serious note - the only person benefiting from your unhappiness is your husband. Kids aren't stupid & they know when things aren't right so it's not doing them any favours. And the situation is obviously making yourself miserable.

It looks like you've spent your whole life bending over backwards to make other people happy (having the kid, getting married, having the abortion, working your butt of so Mr Anon4now can sit on his butt..) It's time to look after YOUR needs and wants now!!

You've spent the last 40 years like this, make sure you don't spend the next 40 the same way.

trio

Does he know how unhappy you are?

Would it make any difference if he knew? If he knew you were so unhappy you wished you were dead, would he actually take another job then?

You must find out. Not just presume, but ask him outright. If the answer is NO, and he won't change anything even though you wish you were dead, then.......

Well then you must find a solicitor and see if a seperation would be possible. Don't just presume because you've got a big mortgage that you can't seperate. If that were the case then no-one would do it! You need to get educated.

It's a last resort of course, but if he won't try counselling and he won't compromise, then at least he'll know that he is playing a 50% part in any break-up that may occur, and can't play the victim.

And the kids have their own lives now. You don't owe them a stable home anymore because they've left the home. You've done your job in that regard.

anon4now

Thank you all so much for your responses. Even while I typed I felt disloyal, but reading your replies - and even my own post again- has been a huge wake up call.

I've tried many times to tell him how I feel, to no avail. He just says it's hormones and that men do what I do all the time and don't complain about it, that it's just that the roles are reversed in our marriage and that he's happy as things are.

He definitely won't go to counselling, i've tried to get him to go before but he says we're fine and he's happy and that if i'm not then that i should get help. He also says that i only started going on about this stuff after i nearly died two years ago because the illness affected my brain. I had a tumour, so he's sort of right.

The thing is, i feel like i should have been stronger and not complied with all this so the poster who says there are two of us in it is right. I'm probably more to blame because he's feeling fine. I don't doubt that if he wasn't he would let me know very quickly.

I should have said, the kids both have their own homes now, that's part of the reason there's a big mortgage here.

What do you think if I just print out my post and your replies and leave them beside the kettle in the morning? He doesn't get up until I'm long gone. Do you think this would be a good idea. I just can't face talking to him again because i always feel like i'm being ungrateful and somehow selfish at the end of the conversations... Thanks for being so kind.

Marksie

Yuo nearly died? and he shrugged it off and uses it as further reasoning as to why you should be ignored?

TBH I dont think if you ran through the kitchen with a brass band behind you he would take much notice.
Probably put that down to hormones as well.

There is only so much you can suggest, and try and do.

He needs a good dose of reality.
The saying: Actions speak louder than words is very relevant here.
He will keep fobbing you off until you actually do somethnig. But blaming yuorself?? Don't go there... juts say the scales have fallen from your eyes and you have some realisation of things, no use blaming for the past..its the present and future that are important

As you said one poster hit the nail on the head when he said that there were two ni it.
As yes, its only oneself who is responsible for ones own happinness and unhappiness.
And of course you have been facilitating his behaviour, so of course he is going to continue doing what he is doing.

I am afraid its only you who can do something about it.

All the best

Beruthiel

anon4now wrote: »

I've tried many times to tell him how I feel, to no avail.

If he is not willing to talk, there's not much you can do.

He just says it's hormones

I hope you told him to go fuk himself?
Was it your hormones when he blackmailed you into getting rid of your child?
Is it hormones watching your life pass you by while the man you married doesn't seem to give a toss about your feelings?
Is it hormones knowing the man you married doesn't respect you?

that men do what I do all the time and don't complain about it, that it's just that the roles are reversed in our marriage and that he's happy as things are.

Well that's just fine then. Fuk you, get on with it a quit your whinging.
I don't think so.
This is your life, what other 'men' do all the time has nothing to do with the price of turnips.
This is about what YOU want.

He definitely won't go to counselling

You've tried. He hasn't and won't. You've done all you can. Time to move on and think of yourself.

he says we're fine and he's happy and that if i'm not then that i should get help.

LOL!
He's living in cloud cuckoo land.

He also says that i only started going on about this stuff after i nearly died two years ago because the illness affected my brain. I had a tumour, so he's sort of right.

Yes, he is.
You realised you almost died, you got a second chance. You discovered that you weren't happy with your lot, that you'd been settling all these years and that this second chance should not, under any circumstances, be wasted. You are right!

What do you think if I just print out my post and your replies and leave them beside the kettle in the morning? He doesn't get up until I'm long gone. Do you think this would be a good idea.

Do you think it will help. From what you've said so far, sounds like you are flogging a dead horse.

i always feel like i'm being ungrateful and somehow selfish at the end of the conversations.

That's cos you're a big softie. Let me tell you now woman, you've gotten to that time in your life where you've come to a crossroads.
Continue in the miserable life you have until the day you die.
Or
Leave and experience all that life has to offer, discover yourself, try things up to now you would never have dared and discover a happiness you never thought existed!

Marksie

Beruthiel wrote: »

you've come to a crossroads.

Continue in the miserable life you have until the day you die.

Or

Leave and experience all that life has to offer, discover yourself, try things up to now you would never have dared and discover a happiness you never thought existed!

+100000

That is it all wrapped in a nutshell. The two choices.

His are even more simple: grow up and be a man and not some whiney little child

beth-lou

Hi OP,

Well it really does sound as though he is not going to change and he thinks you are going to just carry on as it has always been regardless of how you feel.

He has said no to counselling and the fact that he keeps putting your unhappiness down to hormones and your brain tumour shows a total lack of respect for you. It seems that he thinks if he's happy, you're happy and anything else is you going off the rails because of pms or a tumour. He needs to get real.

Do you really want to spend the rest of your life with a man who has total disregard for you?

I don't think he is going to change. He is manipulative and dismissive. And yes you were part of the problem too. But now you are going to fix it.
Think about what you really want and go for it.

I think the love is gone. The kids have flown the nest and it is time for you to do the same. I really hope you can do what makes you happy. You're still so young.

Best of luck.

lolly22

Hey op, im really sorry to hear about your situation you sound so sad.
Dont think i can give any advise as good as what you have from others
already, but you seem like you have done everything to please others past few years like keeping him happy and the families and looking after
your kids when you havent had a chance to look after yourself.

Your kids are old enough to understand you need to be happy now and
choose the right path for yourself.

You deserve to be happy after everything you have been through and you need to tell your oh your not happy, you both cant live like this for another 23 years.

Now is the time to do the right thing for you,stay strong, be happy
look after YOURSELF.;)

Good luck

dazberry

anon4now wrote: »

He definitely won't go to counselling, i've tried to get him to go before but he says we're fine and he's happy and that if i'm not then that i should get help. He also says that i only started going on about this stuff after i nearly died two years ago because the illness affected my brain. I had a tumour, so he's sort of right.

The thing is, i feel like i should have been stronger and not complied with all this so the poster who says there are two of us in it is right. I'm probably more to blame because he's feeling fine. I don't doubt that if he wasn't he would let me know very quickly.

Wow The first bit I've highlighted really rings a bell because although there was not illness involved - with my parents you had the "problem person" blaming the other - "its those stupid books your reading - giving you ideas".

The second bit I can identify with too as my mother has often said that, and that's all well and good in hindsight - but its not fair to yourself to be saying that. For instance my mother was 7 years younger than my father who was constantly moody, always giving out and could fly off the handle with an explosive temper. It was the best she could do just to keep the peace for the sake of her child (me ).

He definitely needs a good fuppin kick up the ar$e

Just one piece of advice. Should you decide to seperate - as the person who is leaving you're going to be blamed for this - he's going to play the innocent wounded victim and it can turn very nasty - some of the things my father said and did when my mother left were so completely disgraceful that 17 years later I still have as little to do with him as is possible :mad:. I'm just saying here that you need to be prepared for the worst.

D.

Bog Man

I feel so sorry for you. It is so ****ty to be so used & taken for granted - believe me I know. I think your at nothing with this gobshyte, he sounds like a lazy selfish dickhead tbh.
But I have great news for you. There is life after acrimonius marital breakdown & it is feckin great! Please believe me on this one. So no more of the 'not worth living' vibe.
I think you already know the answer to your problem, you just need to get the ball rolling.
Chin up + Best of luck

LolaDub

OP first off i'm so sorry you sound so sad. I just had a few notes to add to what other people posted.

If you are 'mortaged up to the hilt' then you should both be working full time. End of. Its ridiculous to be in debt up to your eyes but to only work part time. Also as you are bringing the money into the home then you should start decideing what gets done with it. I imagine golf is an expensive hobby. How would he feel that if he wants to play golf he can pay for the fees and equipiment etc himself out of an additional income.

Honestly i think if you were the man and your partner was the wife everyone would be screaming golddigger

If your kids are grown up and have moved out then you don't need a big place anymore. Tell him this and say as you don't need such a big home, you're in huge debt, your illness means you need to slow down then you want to get a smaller place. If he refuses then simply say well i'm not working x hours a week in a highly stressful job so if you want to keep this you can work for the extra income. You could start off by saying due to property market etc you want to value the place and invite an estate agent around and go from there, brochures of smaller places left around etc.

I wonder when he sees his 'happy' life changing will he then want counselling. He is going to refuse counselling of course because he knows he's being unreasonable and doesn't want anyone saying that he is. I think when things start chaning then you'll see how happy he is with you and less of how happy he is with his life.

gaz wac

Beruthiel wrote: »

If he is not willing to talk, there's not much you can do.

. Let me tell you now woman, you've gotten to that time in your life where you've come to a crossroads.
Continue in the miserable life you have until the day you die.
Or
Leave and experience all that life has to offer, discover yourself, try things up to now you would never have dared and discover a happiness you never thought existed!

+ 1
Thats the money shot right there!! Think of the life you could have. Your going to need balls to do it, but you will never look back.

Good Luck

Aurora Borealis

Just to echo what Beruthiel said if someone is not willing to talk there is in essence nothing you can do as they are not actively, or imo actually, in the relationship.

If you truly love someone then you'd do everything in your power to salvage things. If you don't, you don't.

paperclip2

Hi OP.

I don't have much to say beyond wholeheartedly agreeing with Beruthiel. Your husband seems to have placed the complete responsibility for everything to do with your relationship and all that goes with it onto your shoulders. '

'He says we're fine and he's happy and that if i'm not then that i should get help.if theres something wrong with you then you should fix it. '

So fix it in a way that makes you truly happy. Second chances are infinitely precious and you know that whats going on in your marriage is not making you happy. After a lifetime spent giving to this man at the end of the day you owe him absolutely nothing.

Good luck OP.

Trinity

You've been given a 2nd chance at life, dont blow it.

DOnt wake up in 20 years and have more regrets.

You sound like a great person.

He is happy? Good for him. How happy will he be when you leave? Should you care?

No. You have to start looking out for number one cos obviously this man is doing just that. You absolutely owe it to yourself to find some happiness and fullfilment. He sounds like he would be happy to spend the rest of his life like this and he is not for one second considering your happiness.

Take a leaf out of his book.

RuailleBuaille

+a million to Beruthiel.

Voltaire once said 'In every relationship there is one who kisses, and one who is kissed'.
Time to let yourself be the one who is kissed if you get my drift.
Don't waste any more time on him.
Be kind to yourself and don't worry about his feelings, he's clearly not worried about yours.
I'm sorry it has turned out like this but your life is not over so get out there and grab it by the jugular.
Best of luck.

Edit: Maybe printing out this whole thread and giving to him might give him some perspective? Only you can decide whether his reaction will make it worth your while.