Roundabout on Donegal town bypass

Glenman

I am talking about the first roundabout you come accross when coming from Sligo, you have three options, left into Donegal town, straight ahead onto the bypass or swing all the way round and exit towards Sligo again.
When going straight ahead (second exit) which lane should you be in (left or right)?

sesswhat

Two exit lanes so I would say either lane is legal, in the absence of road markings to say otherwise.

Glenman

sesswhat wrote: »

Two exit lanes so I would say either lane is legal, in the absence of road markings to say otherwise.

I have used both lanes from time to time and usually the person in the other lane beeps the horn at me! There is a lot of confusion about that roundabout!

muffler

Im open to correction on this but I believe that you should always use the inside lane to exit the roundabout on to the last road not counting the road you are entering from. So in this situation the last road is the one straight ahead so using the inside lane should be fine.

On the other hand its been said that (unless otherwise marked) you should use the outer lane to exit on to the first 2 roads so in this case again you would be justified in using the outer lane.

Either one it seems unless the road markings show something different.

muffler

If you have an hour you can decipher this

donegalgirl28

What so there is only 2 exits? Then you should be in the right lane. If there's 3 exits not including your one, then you should be in the left lane.

Glenman

donegalgirl28 wrote: »

What so there is only 2 exits? Then you should be in the right lane. If there's 3 exits not including your one, then you should be in the left lane.

I think this is is correct

babaloushka

donegalgirl28 wrote: »

What so there is only 2 exits? Then you should be in the right lane. If there's 3 exits not including your one, then you should be in the left lane.

Agree - why not mark EVERY roundabout? Marking a few here and there - and re-marking others to change what was in use for years - is annoying and confusing.

byte

The roundabout you refer to is Tullyearl Roundabout. It was an afterthought, after so many accidents using the junction system they had previous.

I've had it from driving instructors that it's always the left lane for first and second exits, right lane for all others.

I tend to use the right side lane also, since there's only two exits, though I'll always see someone who uses the left lane to take the 2nd exit too. Of course, those already on the left lane have right of way.

This is one of those roundabouts that needs arrows on the road to state which should be used, as there does seem to be confusion. Even I'm not sure I'm right. I believe the new Donegal mart was to go into the field there (yeah, right haha), meaning there would be a 3rd exit in the future.

blue shimmering

byte wrote: »

The roundabout you refer to is Tullyearl Roundabout. It was an afterthought, after so many accidents using the junction system they had previous.

I've had it from driving instructors that it's always the left lane for first and second exits, right lane for all others.

I tend to use the right side lane also, since there's only two exits, though I'll always see someone who uses the left lane to take the 2nd exit too. Of course, those already on the left lane have right of way.

This is one of those roundabouts that needs arrows on the road to state which should be used, as there does seem to be confusion. Even I'm not sure I'm right. I believe the new Donegal mart was to go into the field there (yeah, right haha), meaning there would be a 3rd exit in the future.

I agree, it is the left hand entrance on to the roundabout that should be used for the first two exits off it! Although as previously said there are no other exits so why is there two entrances on to the roundabout from all directions? The answer as Byte has said is probably that the new mart is going to introduce a third exit off the roundabout!

Going on to a roundabout you are supposed to give way to the right but while on the roundabout you are supposed to give way to the left - confusing I know but at the same time I think roundabouts are dangerous anyway and it is better to give way than to be involved in an accident!

I am guilty of using the inside lane at time too - if the person in front is taking the first exit off, (indicating to the left) for example....but still have to be careful that they don't change their mind or even worse think they should have their indicator on when going on straight!

Roundabouts are tricky....

smashey

All this talk of a third exit. People doing a u-turn would be leaving at the third exit.

blue shimmering

smashey wrote: »

All this talk of a third exit. People doing a u-turn would be leaving at the third exit.

Very good......though it would have been a lot more tricky doing a u-turn when it was a junction! I do agree that you would have to approach from the right lane in that circumstance maybe that's why its there......! A lot of drivers are confused at roundabouts but to be honest it is less confusing than the Tullyearl junction that was there before! Now IT was a DISASTER waiting to happen - the reason given at the time for it was that a roundabout can't be built on a corner!

Mint Sauce

blue shimmering wrote: »

A lot of drivers are confused at roundabouts but to be honest it is less confusing than the Tullyearl junction that was there before! Now IT was a DISASTER waiting to happen - the reason given at the time for it was that a roundabout can't be built on a corner!

was that what you heard/read, i heard it was it was because there was not enough approach roads for a roundabout (sounded very stupid at the time)

if you consider what was spent to build the original juction, the amount of islands, and the lenght of them (the old layout is still on google earth), markings, signage, then the cost to clean up the accidents, then what was spent to build a new roundabout, straigtning the road, the residential road that runs parralel with it, thats a serious amount that could have been spent properly to start with and the extra spent else where

donegal already has the worse roads in the country, and then they made them that little bit more dangerious building that thing

blue shimmering

irish-stew wrote: »

was that what you heard/read, i heard it was it was because there was not enough approach roads for a roundabout (sounded very stupid at the time)

Yes, it was debated even before being built and this was one of the reasons given, afterwards - when it was finished there was uproar...everyone was completely confused about who had the right of way and so on...I think it was on Ocean FM that I heard all the debate about it although at this stage I have to say I may be wrong!

irish-stew wrote: »

if you consider what was spent to build the original juction, the amount of islands, and the lenght of them (the old layout is still on google earth), markings, signage, then the cost to clean up the accidents, then what was spent to build a new roundabout, straigtning the road, the residential road that runs parralel with it, thats a serious amount that could have been spent properly to start with and the extra spent else where

I think it was a terrible waste of money and seemingly the junction was being tried out as an experimental study by the roads authority - it was a new design! I remember at the time this was how they were promoting it and assured us all it was safe and so on....They were unfortunetly proved wrong and eventually had to change it - I would say money had to be saved while changing the layout and that is why it is a rather dangerous roundabout to go through!

irish-stew wrote: »

donegal already has the worse roads in the country, and then they made them that little bit more dangerious building that thing

I agree the original tullyearl junction was dangerous but the roundabout is a lot safer and as far as I am aware there have been very few accidents on it since it was changed - beforehand there was one every few days and some of them were very serious with life threatening injuries! I think it was very poorly marked as well and warnings coming up to it were not there - so holiday makers or others not from the area, I feel panicked when they passed the turnoff thinking that was the only exit into Donegal Town! Braked, tried to turn around and so on...also it was very difficult to know who was right or indeed wrong - the only way it would have worked was with traffic lights and they didn't want to stop the traffic, so instead they decided to change it to a roundabout! The major problem with it was if you had to turn in to the right from the Ballybofey side or come out from the Donegal side to turn right for Sligo! Then you had the traffic from Sligo meeting the traffic from Ballybofey going to Donegal Town - where the Sligo side had to give way to the Ballybofey and so on...it was extremely dangerous and confusing!

Mint Sauce

plus if i recall, at one point on the juction you had drivers passing along side you (coming towards you) on your passenger side, and this was in the middle of a major N road

:eek:

byte

Yeah, if leaving Donegal town going towards Laghey, on the second "junction".

It was a strange H-shaped junction alright. A standard junction wouldve made more sense than the H-shape they had going on.

Anyway, the roundabout is better. Even if a bit tight on the field side.

blue shimmering

irish-stew wrote: »

plus if i recall, at one point on the juction you had drivers passing along side you (coming towards you) on your passenger side, and this was in the middle of a major N road

:eek:

Yes it was a very dangerous junction and I am so glad it was changed before someone was killed!

batman1

Why can't people just obey the rules of the road while driving. This would stop a lot of accidents/confusion/debates.

blue shimmering

batman1 wrote: »

Why can't people just obey the rules of the road while driving. This would stop a lot of accidents/confusion/debates.

I think it because the rules are very confusing at times - you could think you are doing the right thing and then someone crashes into you! It could be a different story when it lands up in court, I still think roundabouts are so dangerous that everyone should treat them with caution - it is irrelevant whether you are right or wrong if you are dead or some of your family are dead or maimed for life!

A lot of the confusion comes from there not being roundabouts in many parts of Donegal until recently - also traffic lights are few and far between and people don't seem to think they should stop when they are RED! The orange is another one that people get confused about but that is obviously for another thread if someone wants to open it!

We all know the rules of the road or at least think we do, but it is only when they are put into practice that we realise there are so many questions about it! Instructors don't have all the answers either for the different scenarios we come across every day so I think the best thing to do is proceed with caution and be careful on them!

Glenman

So which lane should you be in for going straight ahead. Left or right or are both correct?

sesswhat

Glenman wrote: »

So which lane should you be in for going straight ahead. Left or right or are both correct?

The thread has now turned into a roundabout and we're back where we started.

I'm sticking by my original answer. You could put a case for either lane and I don't think you could be legally proven to be wrong. There are two lanes on the exit road so as long as you can stay in your own lane all way round and coming off the roundabout there should be no need to fall out with anybody. Obviously you will need to make allowances for large vehicles but this is true of many junctions.

muffler

The roundabout near Manor is almost identical but at least its more clearly marked.

If you are coming from Letterkenny on the dual carriageway and you approach the roundabout there are advance warning signs to get into the correct lane and as you approach the roundabout the lanes and directions are clearly marked on the road surface. Stay in the left hand lane to take the Derry road or get in the right hand (or inner) lane to go straight on to Lifford.

Road markings are very important in these situations.

extopia

There's no mystery here, lads, it's simple enough. Second exit means left hand lane. That's the rule. Anyone who thinks this rule can be ignored because there aren't four exits to this roundabout needs to get out of Donegal more often.

muffler

extopia wrote: »

There's no mystery here, lads, it's simple enough. Second exit means left hand lane. That's the rule. Anyone who thinks this rule can be ignored because there aren't four exits to this roundabout needs to get out of Donegal more often.

Not in the situation where I outlined above. And I dont think your statement is very accurate.

Certainly not in this situation either: Traffic coming from Ballybofey down to the Dry Arch roundabout. Both lanes are being used for the first turn off to Letterkenny. So if someone enters the roundabout from the left hand lane intending to take the second exit then there is a serious problem with the traffic on the right hand lane which is turning off to the first exit for Letterkenny.

extopia

The rule is: left lane for 1st and second exits, right lane for third and subsequent exits - UNLESS ROAD MARKINGS AND SIGNAGE INDICATE OTHERWISE.

The Donegal Town roundabout we're talking about here has no special markings/signage, so the default rule applies.

It's all clearly indicated here.

Go down to the section titled "On or leaving the roundabout." Note that it's sometimes OK to use the right hand lane for straight ahead/second exit (e.g. if directed by a Garda or the left hand lane is marked left turn only or is blocked), but again that is not normally the case at the roundabout in question.

extopia

Glenman wrote: »

I have used both lanes from time to time and usually the person in the other lane beeps the horn at me!

Try using just one lane then, and preferably the left.

(By the way, if you illegally use the right hand lane, it's also a good idea to indicate before you take the second exit so at least you will warn the driver(s) you are about to cut off!)

donegalgirl28

My answer is the best one.

Usually, roundabouts have 3 exits, so the rule there is you want to take the first or second exit you keep in the left lane, you wanna take the third (last one) you keep in the right lane. However! If there are two exits and you want to go to the second one (the last one) you stay in the right lane. To go left you stay in the second one. This is the most safest way to drive and causes less traffic. (Only if everyone obeyed that rule).



/thread

muffler

donegalgirl28 wrote: »

My answer is the best one.

We will let the jury decide.

extopia

donegalgirl28 wrote: »

My answer is the best one.

Unfortunately, though, your answer is incorrect. Check the rules of the road, I really don't see why people are having trouble with this.

muffler

extopia wrote: »

I really don't see why people are having trouble with this.

Well I do as every roundabout seems to have different traffic management arrangement.

extopia

muffler wrote: »

Well I do as every roundabout seems to have different traffic management arrangement.

But wouldn't you agree that in the absence of signage to the contrary, then the rules for a standard roundabout apply?

This roundabout is no different to the roundabouts at either end of the Bundoran/Ballyshannon bypass, for example. Or countless other roundabouts around the country.

The Letterkenny roundabouts are a different case altogether. They are "urban" roundabouts, and like many of the roundabouts around Dublin, for example, different rules apply because of the volume of traffic.

blue shimmering

muffler wrote: »

Well I do as every roundabout seems to have different traffic management arrangement.

I think the safest is to stay in the right lane for the first two exits and the left for all other exits - but when in the left lane going onto the roundabout to remember that the person on your left has right of way! You have to watch you mirrors very carefully and give way even if you think your right because whats the point in being right if you are maimed or dead?

The rule book says first two exits stay in the right lane and unless it is marked on the road that you can do otherwise you are not following the rules and could possibly cause an accident. My comment would be mirrors, mirrors, mirrors on roundabouts and also in other road situations!

smashey

blue shimmering wrote: »

I think the safest is to stay in the right lane for the first two exits and the left for all other exits - but when in the left lane going onto the roundabout to remember that the person on your left has right of way! You have to watch you mirrors very carefully and give way even if you think your right because whats the point in being right if you are maimed or dead?

The rule book says first two exits stay in the right lane and unless it is marked on the road that you can do otherwise you are not following the rules and could possibly cause an accident. My comment would be mirrors, mirrors, mirrors on roundabouts and also in other road situations!

I thought the first two exits were accessed from the left lane.

muffler

smashey wrote: »

I thought the first two exits were accessed from the left lane.

Dont EVER approach a roundabout when blue shimmering is driving along side you in the other lane

Essexboy

donegalgirl28 wrote: »

My answer is the best one.

Usually, roundabouts have 3 exits, so the rule there is you want to take the first or second exit you keep in the left lane, you wanna take the third (last one) you keep in the right lane. However! If there are two exits and you want to go to the second one (the last one) you stay in the right lane. To go left you stay in the second one. This is the most safest way to drive and causes less traffic. (Only if everyone obeyed that rule).



/thread

This is the common sense approach. See
"When taking the last exit or going all the way around the roundabout, signal and indicate to the right-hand lane. Stick to the right throughout unless you need to switch lanes to exit. As with the middle exits, indicate at the exit before the one that you want to exit on."
http://www.drivingexpert.co.uk/roundabouts.html

extopia

Thanks for quoting those UK Rules of the Road, Essexboy. :mad:

As it happens, however, our own rules are in agreement on this one.

il gatto

Standard procedure on a roundabout with two entrance and exit lanes and two encircling lanes is to use the left lane entering the roundabout, the outer lane on the roundabout and the left lane exiting for the first two exits. For third or fouth exit, enter on the right hand lane, indicate right and travel around on the inner lane. On passing the last exit before yours, indicate left and move to the outer lane before exiting.
The use of the inner lane for the second exit is usually in heavy traffic in a dual carriageway scenario where it helps traffic flow m or if the left outer lane is blocked by backed up traffic spilling back from the first exit. There's no point exiting on the right lane, only to cut back in in front of people who exited on the lest lane. As the HSA site says "Where conditions dictate otherwise, you may follow the course shown by the broken red line". This indicates that it is not standard procedure.
Roundabouts were conceived as means of controlling traffic in a fluid manner rather that U.S. style crossing intersections which restrict traffic flow. The U.S. is now moving towards roundabouts also. They also have older "traffic circles" which bizaarly gave traffic entering the right of way. Sounds lethal to me. The fluid nature of roundabouts means it's very hard to give precise rules or for drivers to always perform the necessary actions with perfect accuracy. It leads to crashes and close shaves, but the fact that vehicles are travelling so slowly means most accidents are non fatal and often only a ding. That safety feature is why roundabouts are the approved juntion at busy intersections.
God I'm sad. I've just written three long paragraphs on traffic management, which I have zero interest in.:(

donegalgirl28

Essexboy wrote: »

This is the common sense approach.
"When taking the last exit or going all the way around the roundabout, signal and indicate to the right-hand lane. Stick to the right throughout unless you need to switch lanes to exit. As with the middle exits, indicate at the exit before the one that you want to exit on."
http://www.drivingexpert.co.uk/roundabouts.html

That's exactly what I've been saying.

donegalgirl28 wrote: »

you want to go to the second one (the last one) you stay in the right lane.

extopia wrote: »

As it happens, however, our own rules are in agreement on this one.

Eh? Whatever happened to

extopia wrote: »

Unfortunately, though, your answer is incorrect. Check the rules of the road, I really don't see why people are having trouble with this.

:P:P

muffler

There's an undercurrent in the last couple of posts and its called

ROAD RAGE

blue shimmering

muffler wrote: »

Dont EVER approach a roundabout when blue shimmering is driving along side you in the other lane

Hi, sorry folks I got the right and left mixed up and to be honest I am still laughing - I meant to say, stay in the Left lane for the first two exits and in the right one for all other exits. Then watch all your mirrors and make sure to give way to the right going on to the roundabout and to the left when on it - this is where the mirrors come in!

Really sorry everyone for confusing you all but after all there was a new American president elected today and I was just practising for him! Only joking and sorry to the moderators for making the mistake above!

muffler

No need to apologise at all. We all make mistakes.

I couldnt resist taking the proverbial however when I seen your post

extopia

donegalgirl28 wrote: »

That's exactly what I've been saying.

Essexboy's quote refers to leaving a roundabout. This thread is about which lane to use to enter the roundabout. (Note that the UK rules on which lane to use on entering a roundabout are not the same as ours).

It's not correct to use the right lane for the second exit, unless road signs indicate otherwise, the left lane is blocked, or you're directed to do so by a garda or other traffic warden.

It is wrong to assume that the second exit is the LAST exit. The last exit in the roundabout in question is actually the third exit, i.e. the road you are entering from.

I'm not posting about this anymore. But next time I'm at that roundabout and the many other three-exit roundabouts in Donegal, I'll be extra vigilant given all the confusion there seems to be about this issue.

muffler

extopia wrote: »

But next time I'm at that roundabout and the many other three-exit roundabouts in Donegal, I'll be extra vigilant given all the confusion there seems to be about this issue.

Nah, you'll be grand unless blue shimmering is around

sesswhat

extopia wrote: »

There's no mystery here, lads, it's simple enough. Second exit means left hand lane. That's the rule.

Except the Rules of the Road don't even mention 'Second exit'.

They advise what to do when

1. Making a left turn
2. Going straight ahead
3. Taking any later exits

In their diagram, 'straight ahead' and 'second exit' may amount to the same thing but this is not always the case.

What if you were approaching this roundabout from the bypass and going right towards Donegal. 'Going straight ahead' at this roundabout would be the first exit towards Ballyshannon.

So you are not making a left turn and you are not going straight ahead. Are you taking a 'later exit'? If so the rules say:

- Signal right and approach in the right-hand lane.
- Keep to the right on the roundabout until you need to change lanes to exit the roundabout.

Where does that leave your personal 'Second exit means left hand lane' rule?

extopia wrote: »

(By the way, if you illegally use the right hand lane

The rules of the road may refer to law, specifically when it says what you must or must not do, but otherwise its rules constitute advice and are not laws.

il gatto

I hate the roundabout at Ballyshannon. Slows everything down. When they spent so much bypassing the town and building the bridge, you think they'd have made a slip road/underpass arrangement so the traffic on the main road wouldn't have to crawl through the roundabout. Actually, the roundabout the Sligo side of Bundoran is a bit of a nuisance as well. Alot of cars don't seem to expect it and you can see them hitting the brakes hard when they run in a bit too hot.
The Tullyearl roundabout is far better than that ridiculous arrangement that used to be there. More than once I nearly hit the central reservation at night. It covered acres and was very hard to see in the dark, especially if it was wet. It probably caused numerous accidents.
Sligo didn't get a rounabout until the dual carriageway opened back in the late nineties. It seemed the county manager didn't hold with them:D He obviously felt his own opinion counted for more than numerous safety studies carried out by professionals.

Macroom Man

extopia wrote: »

Essexboy's quote refers to leaving a roundabout. This thread is about which lane to use to enter the roundabout. (Note that the UK rules on which lane to use on entering a roundabout are not the same as ours).

It's not correct to use the right lane for the second exit, unless road signs indicate otherwise, the left lane is blocked, or you're directed to do so by a garda or other traffic warden.

It is wrong to assume that the second exit is the LAST exit. The last exit in the roundabout in question is actually the third exit, i.e. the road you are entering from.

I'm not posting about this anymore. But next time I'm at that roundabout and the many other three-exit roundabouts in Donegal, I'll be extra vigilant given all the confusion there seems to be about this issue.

Note that the UK rules on which lane to use on entering a roundabout are not the same as ours
Road deaths in the UK are almost half those here so why not use the same rules as a country with a far better safety record?

blue shimmering

extopia wrote: »

Essexboy's quote refers to leaving a roundabout. This thread is about which lane to use to enter the roundabout. (Note that the UK rules on which lane to use on entering a roundabout are not the same as ours).

It's not correct to use the right lane for the second exit, unless road signs indicate otherwise, the left lane is blocked, or you're directed to do so by a garda or other traffic warden.

It is wrong to assume that the second exit is the LAST exit. The last exit in the roundabout in question is actually the third exit, i.e. the road you are entering from.

I'm not posting about this anymore. But next time I'm at that roundabout and the many other three-exit roundabouts in Donegal, I'll be extra vigilant given all the confusion there seems to be about this issue.

Exactly right but to be honest I have just a many problems in Dublin with roundabouts and people not knowing which lane they are supposed to be in as I do in Donegal.....even if you know where you are going in Dublin once they see a DL registration they assume you are lost or don't know the rules of the road and just cut in front of you, nearly causing an accident so saying you will watch in Donegal is wrong - WATCH ALL THE ROUNDABOUTS!

Tullyearl was much worse the way it was before they changed it to a roundabout - then it was extremely dangerous and I didn't use it unless I really had to, that was if I had to go to Ballyshannon, Pettigo.....even DUBLIN!

muffler

Macroom Man wrote: »

Note that the UK rules on which lane to use on entering a roundabout are not the same as ours
Road deaths in the UK are almost half those here so why not use the same rules as a country with a far better safety record?

Stick to the topic. This has nothing to do with the UK.

smashey

http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-for-driving/junctions-roundabouts/roundabouts.html

sesswhat

smashey wrote: »

http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-for-driving/junctions-roundabouts/roundabouts.html

Like I said before the Rules of the Road are not laws, and they are vague when it comes to any 'non-standard' roundabout. The only way to remove any ambiguity would be to use correct signage and correct markings at every roundabout.

Muffler mentioned the Dry Arch roundabout earlier. If you followed the rules of the road coming from Ballybofey, you would not be able to turn left towards Letterkenny using the right approach lane. Fair enough although many people do. You would also not be able to turn right towards Derry at all, because there are no arrows that signify turning right. The arrow in the right approach lane is a straight arrow only. It is a legal requirement to obey the road markings so by law everybody using this lane would have to go into the service station opposite.

smashey

Yes, but the placing of arrows supersedes the rules. So, in the absence of arrows the rules of the road should be applied.