TOur of Ireland - Overall Impressions

michaelm

I would be really interested in hearing people's overall views of the TOI - While I personally really enjoyed following two stages (2 and 4) I gathered many of the riders were unhappy with the quality of some of the roads. On stage 2 the crowds seemed to me to be excellent -as they were yesterday - Newcastlewest,, the Conor Pass and Dingle had crowds close to what I remember from The Nissan. A huge number of riders did not finish today - is that usual or was Patrick's Hill to difficult for the non climbers? By the way - anyone know what the prize money is for the winner - just interested

www.flickr.com/photos/mmolamphy

Chips Lovell

michaelm wrote: »

...I gathered many of the riders were unhappy with the quality of some of the roads...

Now there's a surprise.

sportbilly2008

i followed it for the five days and it was some of the most enjoyable days i have ever spent.

the route through some of what you can only call dirt tracks needs to be addressed,

give david duffield and dAVE FROM COLORADO their p 45
,
keep the final day finishing on st patricks hill ,but not as many laps, it could turn into a tradition like the champs elysees in the tdf,

run a competition to allow 10 true cycling fans access to the hospitality section,

have an actual programme for sale

have kiddies sizes of merchandise for sale

have mini sponsors and promotional caravan preceeding the race

make somebody tell a joke to dave millar and cavendish every morning cos the look as gloomy as hell, and slightly diva-esque

sort out the logistics, have stage starts and the following days depart in the same location

there has gotta be a better time to show the highlights than 11.30

i think thats everything

henboy

sportbilly2008 wrote: »

i followed it for the five days and it was some of the most enjoyable days i have ever spent.

the route through some of what you can only call dirt tracks needs to be addressed,

give david duffield and dAVE FROM COLORADO their p 45
,
keep the final day finishing on st patricks hill ,but not as many laps, it could turn into a tradition like the champs elysees in the tdf,

run a competition to allow 10 true cycling fans access to the hospitality section,

have an actual programme for sale

have kiddies sizes of merchandise for sale

have mini sponsors and promotional caravan preceeding the race

make somebody tell a joke to dave millar and cavendish every morning cos the look as gloomy as hell, and slightly diva-esque

sort out the logistics, have stage starts and the following days depart in the same location

there has gotta be a better time to show the highlights than 11.30

i think thats everything[/quote

Yes that says it all really

---

Whats the story with Cavendish is he trying to be to cool for school

cantalach

Cav acted like a sullen, spoilt brat. Fair enough, a very tired Chris Hoy let him down in the Olympic Madison and he didn't get his medal. But jeez when you're getting paid as much as he is and have just won your first straight hat trick of stage wins, you'd think you could manage a smile. I was disgusted that he DNF'd in Cork when he was so far ahead in points that the green jersey was his no matter where he finished on the day. He insulted the race and spectators by effectively saying "neither the jersey nor the adulation of the fans means anything to me".

As regards the road surfaces, I think some of teams might have done their home work and previewed the course a bit better. The bikes were blinged up with deep-section carbon rims which are a really bad choice for the Irish roads they were on (they even had to ford a stream out at Slea Head for God's sake)! Nobody complains about the quality of roads in the Ronde or Paris-Roubaix - they just expect them to be bad, kit the bikes out accordingly and off they go.

TinyExplosions

cantalach wrote: »

Cav acted like a sullen, spoilt brat. Fair enough, a very tired Chris Hoy let him down in the Olympic Madison

[pedantic]Sorry, it was Bradley Wiggins, not Chris Hoy[/pedantic]

FrankGrimes

Watched most of the episodes on the TV and was pleasantly surprised - it seemed to be a very well organised and competitive and challenging event, though I'm aware some of that may just be the effect glossy TV production can add.

The commentator said in the last stage that Columbia were the only pro tour team in it, but that don't make sense cos Garmin Chipotle were in there too. Anyways, how does the standard stack up against your average national tour?

Was glad to see that we had some hills to give them some good tests and Patrick's Hill did look pretty savage and adding it to all future tours by default is a good idea.

But have to say the quality of the roads was dire in places, I don't watch that much cycling but can there be many national tours where the riders are asked to cycle up tiny roads with grass in the middle and pot holes all over the place (or oily gravel on that spot outside Galway where a load of riders took a fall)?

All in all for some reason I was expecting a shambles (maybe based on past perception from years ago), but thought it was a good tour and a good TV show.

What was the story with Cav in the Olympics - I missed that but he does seem very bitter about it and it was pretty diva like to not even bother going up Patricks Hill once. You're a cyclist buddy, not a world famous footballer, and even if you were yeh you could get away with it but it still makes you a muppet.

Robin1982

FrankGrimes wrote: »

...The commentator said in the last stage that Columbia were the only pro tour team in it, but that don't make sense cos Garmin Chipotle were in there too....

Garmin are a Pro Continental Tour team, Columbia are a Pro Tour team. Without going into the details, and to use a motor-racing analogy, the former is like GP2, the latter like Formula 1. Kinda.

cantalach

TinyExplosions wrote: »

[pedantic]Sorry, it was Bradley Wiggins, not Chris Hoy[/pedantic]

You're absolutely right - they won so many medals between them I'm getting mixed up!

Chips Lovell

cantalach wrote: »

I was disgusted that he DNF'd in Cork when he was so far ahead in points that the green jersey was his no matter where he finished on the day. He insulted the race and spectators by effectively saying "neither the jersey nor the adulation of the fans means anything to me".

Oh come on. Lets not get overly parochial here. It's not like he agreed to do the Tour and and dropped out half an hour into the first stage. He came here and won three stages. He's the best sprinter in the world this year and everyone here got a chance to see him do his stuff.

Pros drop out of races all the time and no one ever thinks of it as an insult. Cavendish was one of 37 to drop out of that stage alone. I don't know why he didn't finish. Maybe he had an injury he didn't want to aggrevate or more likely he wanted to give something to Downing after Columbia swept the boards. At the end of the day, the points jersey in the Tour of Ireland would hardly be mentioned in his palmares. It will mean a lot more to Russell Downing, who rode a great race and now has something to take away from it.

Muller_1

FrankGrimes wrote: »

The commentator said in the last stage that Columbia were the only pro tour team in it, but that don't make sense cos Garmin Chipotle were in there too.

Garmin Chipotle are not in the 20 ProTour teams but Rabobank are! http://www.uciprotour.com/templates/UCI/UCI2/layout.asp?MenuId=MTY5Ng

TinyExplosions

Robin1982 wrote: »

Garmin are a Pro Continental Tour team, Columbia are a Pro Tour team. Without going into the details, and to use a motor-racing analogy, the former is like GP2, the latter like Formula 1. Kinda.

Full list of ProTour teams -others like Tinkoff and Garmin have to be given wildcard entry into the big tours (they almost invariably do, but do have to be asked) afaik (and before the ASO split) the ProTour teams gained an automatic place if they wanted it (unless excluded for another reason).

cantalach

FrankGrimes wrote: »

But have to say the quality of the roads was dire in places, I don't watch that much cycling but can there be many national tours where the riders are asked to cycle up tiny roads with grass in the middle and pot holes all over the place (or oily gravel on that spot outside Galway where a load of riders took a fall)?

Oil aside, I really don't agree. Surely dealing with road surface is an integral part of road cycling. Two of cycling's five monuments are run over pretty appalling roads. The Ronde and Paris-Roubaix have famously poor surfaces including plenty of cobbled sections, as everyone knows. In the mountain TT in this year's Giro the last few km to the summit were on packed earth and gravel. The Vuelta has seen plenty of cobbles and packed earth over the years. And what about that Eroica one-day classic in Tuscany that Cancellara won in March, much of which is run over white gravel roads. I could go on. The condition of the road surface contributes towards the character of a race. It's just like the wind, rain and crowd in Thomand Park.

FrankGrimes wrote: »

What was the story with Cav in the Olympics

They couldn't gain a lap despite Cav's efforts because Wiggins was blown. At least that's what it looked like to me.

cantalach

el tonto wrote: »

Oh come on. Lets not get overly parochial here. It's not like he agreed to do the Tour and and dropped out half an hour into the first stage. He came here and won three stages. He's the best sprinter in the world this year and everyone here got a chance to see him do his stuff.

Pros drop out of races all the time and no one ever thinks of it as an insult. Cavendish was one of 37 to drop out of that stage alone. I don't know why he didn't finish. Maybe he had an injury he didn't want to aggrevate or more likely he wanted to give something to Downing after Columbia swept the boards. At the end of the day, the points jersey in the Tour of Ireland would hardly be mentioned in his palmares. It will mean a lot more to Russell Downing, who rode a great race and now has something to take away from it.

Yes, I know that pros drop out of races all the time but surely not when they are guaranteed a jersey just by finishing anywhere in the field! Lets at least be honest about it: he wasn't injured and Team Columbia are not in the business of gifting jerseys just to be nice to 2nd tier riders and teams. The long and the short of it is that Cav is having a good old sulk because of the Olympics. I was standing 2-3 metres away from him in the teams area in Dingle while he was waiting to be called up on the podium. I was amazed at his pissed-off and utterly bored demeanour which was in sharp contrast to that of Wilson and Downing. I said to my mate "there's no way we're going to see him on St Patrick's Hill tomorrow anyway".

selle italia

Yes you are correct in stating that Rabobank are a pro tour team but the squad that rode the TOI are their development squad made up of young riders. Boy van Poppel son of Jean Paul a star from the 80S rode a good tour and is one riders card that should be marked for the future. Technically they are a continental squad with the backing of the dutch bank.

penexpers

cantalach wrote: »

Yes, I know that pros drop out of races all the time but surely not when they are guaranteed a jersey just by finishing anywhere in the field! Lets at least be honest about it: he wasn't injured and Team Columbia are not in the business of gifting jerseys just to be nice to 2nd tier riders and teams. The long and the short of it is that Cav is having a good old sulk because of the Olympics. I was standing 2-3 metres away from him in the teams area in Dingle while he was waiting to be called up on the podium. I was amazed at his pissed-off and utterly bored demeanour which was in sharp contrast to that of Wilson and Downing. I said to my mate "there's no way we're going to see him on St Patrick's Hill tomorrow anyway".

Interestingly, Cav isn't riding in the Tour of Britain, preferring the Tour of Missouri instead.

kensutz

Cavendish did have a nasty enough fall on the first stage but still managed to complete it and win. He was being interviewed in front of me and was saying he didn't feel comfortable after it.

topper75

Think they got a whole lot right and only need to fine tune.

Really disappointed with poor media coverage in general and late TV slot in particular. Maybe they are trying to encourage the unemployed to take up cycling?!

What is with all the Cavendish bashing? He had a fall - gave his all to win 3 stages and was tired by Sunday. What was he going to gain by torturing himself a few more times on St.Pat's hill? He had a strop with a journo who completely mistimed his approach in fairness.

Funkyzeit

I went to 3 of the stages - Great in general but I have to say I thought some of the routes where very questionable. A few times they literally went up boreens with grass in the middle of the road - hardly promoting cycling tourism (or toursim in general).

Also - bar Cav,Millar, Dean and a couple of others I thought the team lineup wasn't as strong as 07 (prob as CSC didn't come)

They should definitely have one stage ending in Dublin - pretty much guarentee a big crowd. Not sure of having finishes in the likes of Lougrea - no offence to the town but you will never get big crowds there.

Might be a good idea going up the North (Belfast for eg) if they can tie it in with the Northern Ireland tourist board - our cycling friends up the North prob deserve a visit

I think the last stage was superb though - great crowds, great atmosphere (esp considering the GAA was on at the time) and agree with an earlier post they should have the have the Cork circuit as the finish every year and have Patricks Hill as the TOI's Poggio...:D

Chips Lovell

cantalach wrote: »

...but surely not when they are guaranteed a jersey just by finishing anywhere in the field!

As I said, in the greater scheme of things, a green tersey in the TOI isn't a big deal for a rider of his standing. He also dropped out of the Tour de France after winning four stages and was high up in the green jersey standings.

cantalach wrote: »

he wasn't injured

He'd had a fall and said he wasn't feeling great.

cantalach wrote: »

and Team Columbia are not in the business of gifting jerseys just to be nice to 2nd tier riders and teams.

Gifting stages etc happens all the time.

cantalach wrote: »

I was amazed at his pissed-off and utterly bored demeanour

He's not a performing monkey.

topper75 wrote: »

Really disappointed with poor media coverage in general and late TV slot in particular. Maybe they are trying to encourage the unemployed to take up cycling?!

It got way more coverage than the Vuelta in yesterday's Irish Times. To be honest, I think its an achievment that RTE showed it at all. They never show any cycling. You've got to build it up and can't expect prime time coverage overnight.

topper75 wrote: »

What is with all the Cavendish bashing? He had a fall - gave his all to win 3 stages and was tired by Sunday. What was he going to gain by torturing himself a few more times on St.Pat's hill?

Exactly.

BH2008

Totally agree with el tonto on this, was watching cav being interviewed last week and what struck me was he looked tired, not as in just finished a race tired, but more bone weary after a long season, in fairness to the guy he has had a serious schedule this year. I was also reading on the bikeradar forum, apparently downing would have won the green jersey anyway, cav finished with 57 after stage 4 whereas downing had 64 at the finish. Most of the other big names dropped out on the same stage, millar, Eisel, Backstead, should we not ask why didn't they finish the final stage as well....I think we should just be happy they were there in the first place!!. The only thing that annoyed me about the race was broadcast times....now fair enough I understand cycling is not flavour of the month with the general public, but for christs sake RTE had a peppering of crap repeats on most evenings and one night I think I had to wait for the nutty professor to finish....thats more than any man can bear....

Malari

I thought it was great - well organised, well publicised (better than last year), reasonable coverage. Hopefully they'll build on it for next year. It would be great to get a turnout like that on Patrick's Hill every year. There would have even more if some GAA match hadn't been on (?).

By the way, it was broadcast on ITV at 7pm each night. I know, not everyone has ITV though

michaelm

cantalach wrote: »

Surely dealing with road surface is an integral part of road cycling. Two of cycling's five monuments are run over pretty appalling roads. The Ronde and Paris-Roubaix have famously poor surfaces including plenty of cobbled sections, as everyone knows.
QUOTE]

While I agree to a certain extent that dealing with road surfaces can be an integral part of bike racing but I think in the case of the TOI there were some essential differences. In Paris/Roubaix and the Ronde the cobbles are part of the race and are well documented at this stage. Coming upon a number of unxpected pot holes and loose gravel on the roads is a different matter. Some of the riders I spoke to on saturday were particularly critical of the descent of the second climb on stage 2 - I had actually posted a piece about this before the race started as I was concerned that it was too dangerous. On the advice received here I actually brought it to the attention of the organisers - by which time work had in fact started on some of the sections of the road. Incredibly however the worst section was not dealt with (I was under the impression it had). Whatever we think, I know the riders were very angry - anyone who heard one of the South Australia team interviewed at that start will vouch for this.

For what its worth I spoke with some of the motorbike marshals about the crashes in Galway - they said there was no oil on the road, it was just greasy from the rain and the type of surface. The "oil" issue was brought up by the TV commentator.

cantalach

BH2008 wrote: »

apparently downing would have won the green jersey anyway, cav finished with 57 after stage 4 whereas downing had 64 at the finish.

Well DNF'ing makes a lot more sense that being the case. As they started to drop Cavendish during the Dingle stage and it became obvious that he wouldn't win the overall, one of the roadside commentators (either David Duffield or that annoying Canadiamerican guy) said that whatever happens he had an unassailable lead in the points. I just took that as fact.

For the record, I have no issue at all with somebody retiring from a race when continuing serves no purpose - I applauded Backstedt when he crossed the line with 1-2 laps to go and made a gesture to the crowd that he was finished.

RapidResults

cantalach wrote: »

Well DNF'ing makes a lot more sense that being the case. As they started to drop Cavendish during the Dingle stage and it became obvious that he wouldn't win the overall, one of the roadside commentators (either David Duffield or that annoying Canadiamerican guy) said that whatever happens he had an unassailable lead in the points. I just took that as fact..

Well, somebody had to explain the time bonus system to Dave from Colarado a few days earlier.

Yep, you've got to finish to keep the jersey, it's a well-known rule, in Europe, at least. He could have had a few hundred euro for being second. But maybe riding around a tricky circult with St Pat's included more time than you want it, is not worth the money.

Looking at the the DNF's you'll find that most were from the back-end of the field and had nothing to gain from all that punishment.

St Pat's looks well on telephoto, but it's more spectacle then sport.

The crowd does like to see the riders a few times and up-close if possible.