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Is Dim Mak Real

245

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,549 ✭✭✭✭cowzerp


    without been smart, if you believe in dim mak etc..why does it never seem to work on non believers?

    saying a toe pointing up combats it is downright weird! how was this found out?

    i believe in ghost etc! i try to be open minded.. but not hadukens or the like.

    i believe what i see and i never saw dim mak work in a real situation-unless a punch to the jaw is dim mak..

    Rush Boxing club and Rush Martial Arts head coach.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,923 ✭✭✭Nothingcompares


    http://www.google.ie/search?q=pma-ire+pressure+points&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&client=firefox-a

    in fairness pma-ire there isn't really much there when you search for your name and pressure points. i don't even remember you speaking much on the topic other than saying pressure points are just sorer places on the body to hit then others and then referencing some diagrams with codes like pk-12.

    cowzer i think by pma-ire's definition a punch to the jaw would be a classic example of dim mak.

    actually here is a better search result.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,336 ✭✭✭Dave Joyce


    I have no doubt in the world Dim Mak (Dian Xue) exists but it takes so much time/learning that most people wouldn't bother. You have cavity press in Chin Na/Gong Fu, Mar Madi (spelling??) in Silat, Vital Points in Muaythai and I'm sure there is a connection between the healing point in Hilot in FMA and vital points.

    In olden times, martial arts were a life long study and healing/killing arts were incorporated and part of this study. This type of training/learning is not feasible or practical in modern society for the vast majority of people and therefore most don't bother with it. That doesn't mean it isn't there or there is no such thing.

    From the Chinese perspective, there are 108 cavities in the human body, which if struck or pressed can affect the Qi flow in the body. 36 of these can cause death and the other 72 can cause numbness or unconsciousness. In order to make a strike effective, you must know the time of the major Qi flow in that channel, the appropriate striking technique and the depth of the cavity.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,995 ✭✭✭Tim_Murphy


    Given that chi has yet to be shown to exist in the first place, I'd be skeptical of anybodys claim to be able to manipulate it.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,336 ✭✭✭Dave Joyce


    Given that chi has yet to be shown to exist in the first place, I'd be skeptical of anybodys claim to be able to manipulate it.

    To the best of my knowledge there are machines now in the States that can measure levels of Qi in the body. I hardly think Health care companies would view acupuncture as a legitimate treatment if Qi didn't exsist. Anyway, Dian Xue is not about manipulating the Qi but interrupting/stopping the flow. My sister is a practising acupuncturist for over 20 years, so some of my knowledge has come from conversations with her (and he in the past has practised Gong Fu for some years including training while studying in China) and her knowledge is not just confined to the health aspects.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,497 ✭✭✭✭Dragan


    The fact that some kind of force exists within the body can't really be denied. We are beings of energy afterall. But the simple fact it is tied in with the physical. Nerves and neurons are all link and all carry electrical signals. I would consider that a force.

    The interesting thing is that long before such medical science would be common knowledge or even discovered man was adapting and giving an idea to at least the possibility. And as such, when something is not fully understood it will be more thought and myth than actual fact.

    It's just the way it is.

    So yeah, i think there is something to it all, nerves cluster and can be interfered with. It's called Neurology. Can it be done on a moving target in a fight situation? Sure, you get that lucky punch and you train to be lucky afterall.

    But for me i see it purely as an occurance of the physical, not the spiritual.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,923 ✭✭✭Nothingcompares


    I always felt acupuncture is manipulation of inflamed muscle and connective tissue in the body. You get a knock on your arm, shoulder, wrist, ankle anywhere and you get that swelling. The needles can temporarily relieve that pressure and give relief. That's my interpretation as the man on the internet street.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,995 ✭✭✭Tim_Murphy


    To the best of my knowledge there are machines now in the States that can measure levels of Qi in the body.
    Really? I'd be amazed if this was the case, but it certainly would be very interesting. I googled it but didn't find anything. Do you have anymore information on it?

    I hardly think Health care companies would view acupuncture as a legitimate treatment if Qi didn't exsist.
    I wouldn't be so sure about that. Many 'health care' companies promote homeopathic remedies which have zero science to back them up. In any case, there is no reason why acupuncture couldn't have beneficial effects even if the ideas it was originally based on were completely false.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,479 ✭✭✭t-ha


    Dave Joyce wrote: »
    To the best of my knowledge there are machines now in the States that can measure levels of Qi in the body. I hardly think Health care companies would view acupuncture as a legitimate treatment if Qi didn't exsist. Anyway, Dian Xue is not about manipulating the Qi but interrupting/stopping the flow. My sister is a practising acupuncturist for over 20 years, so some of my knowledge has come from conversations with her (and he in the past has practised Gong Fu for some years including training while studying in China) and her knowledge is not just confined to the health aspects.
    I don't think so - they can measure electro-magnetic fields (created by all living things) and so on, but I've never heard of people being able to measure "Qi".

    My own opinion is that some of that Eastern medicine is 'observationally' correct. I.e. it works to an extent, but I think the theory as to why it works is totally flawed. It is not drawn from rigorous scientific experiment and the theory is generally not repeatably demonstratable in lab conditions (of course if they can definitively show Qi flow in lab conditions, and show it changing over the course of the day and the seasons, show where the flow has been blocked, where the cavities are etc. then I will change naturally shift my position on this, but I don't think they have and I'm not expecting them to tbh).

    As for health care companies, they are interested in profit. If adding cover for alternative treatments gets them more customers then why not do it. It's not an indication of legitimacy IMO.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,474 ✭✭✭jim o doom


    Might not be much use to yez, but there was a section on the Dim Mak death touch on an episode of that show; mind body & kick a$$ moves..
    I hate the dude who does the show, he is in my mind; a major douche..
    He claims in the episode to feel something when ur man gives him a small taste of it (mad old school kung fu chappy) - but of course this is all television & to be taken with a major spoonful of salt - but just adding so ye can look it up if you are interested..:pac:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,085 ✭✭✭Baggio...


    What more proof do you need after this? Here's the true Chi in action....:pac:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKtK-ifyasc



    Unfortunately they don't allow you to leave comments. Which is a pity, as I was just about to say how lovey, and honest both men are.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 363 ✭✭April Raine


    Dave Joyce wrote: »
    To the best of my knowledge there are machines now in the States that can measure levels of Qi in the body.
    do you have the name of the alleged machine?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 753 ✭✭✭ryoishin


    Its true what Tim Murphy is saying 0% scientific back up does nt matter, if it acts as a placebo and gets you better then its saving the health care company money.

    But on the same hand to say something has never proven to exist is the same as saying it has never been disproven to exist. I think in logical circles its called begging the question.

    Even if it is highly unlikey.

    In my experince in Japanese martial arts and ki (same thing/ not the same depends who you talk to) it can work as a training placebo. Everyone buys into it and so helps produce results, weather actual results or phantom results I dont know.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,995 ✭✭✭Tim_Murphy


    ryoishin wrote: »
    But on the same hand to say something has never proven to exist is the same as saying it has never been disproven to exist. I think in logical circles its called begging the question.
    Well it's pretty much impossible to disprove something’s existence. What one can do is say is that something’s existence has never been proven and there is little/no hard evidence for the phenomenon. That does not preclude that some day somebody will discover that it actually does exist, even if that is not likely to happen.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,448 ✭✭✭Roper


    ryoishin wrote: »
    In my experince in Japanese martial arts and ki (same thing/ not the same depends who you talk to) it can work as a training placebo. Everyone buys into it and so helps produce results, weather actual results or phantom results I dont know.
    So it's okay to lie and decieve your students with mumbo jumbo than to motivate them properly with reality?

    Chi, Qi, Ki and all that stuff is a primitive way of understanding the human body. This might seem dismissive to many, but there is nothing that biologists can't explain about the workings of the human body. It's the single most dissected, examined and counter examined piece in science. Billions of hours of research have been dedicated to examining it's every function and we know why things happen the way they do. That means we know how people get awesome power in their punches and kicks, throught the harnessing and coordinated action of their muscles, ligaments and tendons, not because they've harnessed some mystic power.

    The brain and CNS working via the use of electrical signals does not indicate the presence of some mystical life-force, it just means that it functions by the use of electrical signals.

    I know people would like to believe that there is some mystical life force in us all, it's a nice thought, like God, the tooth fairy and such. The reality is much more prosaic. The reason scientists have not yet found the existence of Ki, Qi Chi or whatever is because they aren't looking.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,693 ✭✭✭pma-ire


    cowzerp wrote: »
    without been smart, if you believe in dim mak etc..why does it never seem to work on non believers?
    it depends on what you think is meant to happen. we usually do seminars with people that have not trained with us before. there are always people who don't feel all the points used. but in the main the group react in a ratio of 9 in 10 people.

    i'm not just talking about KO's (and we don't do no touch KO's BTW) alone. but just the general pain points.

    we look at pressure points as places that give predictable responces that can be used to open up further targets.
    cowzerp wrote: »
    saying a toe pointing up combats it is downright weird! how was this found out?

    i believe in ghost etc! i try to be open minded.. but not hadukens or the like.
    would'int be into that idea myself.
    cowzerp wrote: »
    i believe what i see and i never saw dim mak work in a real situation-unless a punch to the jaw is dim mak..
    have you ever been at a seminar with someone who actually practices it?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 753 ✭✭✭ryoishin


    Yeah thats true Tim.

    Roper not saying its ok just saying some do.

    I agree with you on the biology point but there are some grey areas but we re talking about "the death touch" so I wont go all geek.

    I know a bird with a death touch, shes got death warts and they re not on her hands.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,693 ✭✭✭pma-ire



    thanks for that!

    the last link was from 2005 :D

    i would be sure that i have done more on here but they may have been part of threads that were not totally about pp's.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,693 ✭✭✭pma-ire


    Tim_Murphy wrote: »
    Given that chi has yet to be shown to exist in the first place, I'd be skeptical of anybodys claim to be able to manipulate it.

    as far as i know there is a proven charge in the human body.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,448 ✭✭✭Roper


    pma-ire wrote: »
    as far as i know there is a proven charge in the human body.

    Yes, it's how your CNS works. Nothing mystical. Beautiful, yes, graceful, yes, the result of billions of years of evolutionary refinement, yes. We are amazing creatures and we don't need any pseudo scientific wishy washy mysticism to make us any more so.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,995 ✭✭✭Tim_Murphy


    pma-ire wrote: »
    as far as i know there is a proven charge in the human body.
    Well there are nerves, neurons, electrical signals and such things yes. But that's not really the same thing as Qi now is it?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,995 ✭✭✭Tim_Murphy


    Roper wrote: »
    Yes, it's how your CNS works. Nothing mystical. Beautiful, yes, graceful, yes, the result of billions of years of evolutionary refinement, yes. We are amazing creatures and we don't need any pseudo scientific wishy washy mysticism to make us any more so.

    +1


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,693 ✭✭✭pma-ire


    Roper wrote: »
    Yes, it's how your CNS works. Nothing mystical. Beautiful, yes, graceful, yes, the result of billions of years of evolutionary refinement, yes. We are amazing creatures and we don't need any pseudo scientific wishy washy mysticism to make us any more so.

    who are you saying is saying that?

    i sure did'int :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,693 ✭✭✭pma-ire


    Tim_Murphy wrote: »
    Well there are nerves, neurons, electrical signals and such things yes. But that's not really the same thing as Qi now is it?

    it depends on what your defintion of Qi/Chi/Ki is really ;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,549 ✭✭✭✭cowzerp


    pma-ire, simple question?
    can you do the no touch knock out?

    Rush Boxing club and Rush Martial Arts head coach.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,995 ✭✭✭Tim_Murphy


    pma-ire wrote: »
    it depends on what your defintion of Qi/Chi/Ki is really ;)
    Well whats your definition?

    If you take to mean your CNS and how it works then why use the term Qi or Chi or whatever at all? Why use an ill defined term, which different people take to mean different things?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,549 ✭✭✭✭cowzerp


    Tim_Murphy wrote: »
    Well whats your definition?

    If you take to mean your CNS and how it works then why use the term Qi or Chi or whatever at all? Why use an ill defined term, which different people take to mean different things?

    good question tim, your making sense today!

    Rush Boxing club and Rush Martial Arts head coach.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,085 ✭✭✭Baggio...


    Speaking of "energy"....

    Have a listen to this podcast if you get a chance - it's only 6mins. Very enlightening.

    It's from Skeptoid.com

    http://cdn2.libsyn.com/skeptoid/skeptoid-4002.mp3?nvb=20080905140316&nva=20080906140316&t=08e7273fe8fd31697d953


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,995 ✭✭✭Tim_Murphy


    cowzerp wrote: »
    good question tim, your making sense today!
    You mean I don't normally? :eek:
    Speaking of "energy"....

    Have a listen to this podcast if you get a chance - it's only 6mins. Very enlightening.

    It's from Skeptoid.com

    http://cdn2.libsyn.com/skeptoid/skep...fe8fd31697d953
    Definitely worth a listen.


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