Name Spelled Wrong on Speeding Fine

Collie D · 27-08-2008 2:29pm #1

My Mam got a speeding fine today but her surname is spelled wrong on it. Would this be grounds to have it thrown out? ie Is it worth the risk of bringing it to court and having her points increased from two to four?

SV · 27-08-2008 2:35pm

Take the fine.

It will just be reissued in court when this is mentioned.

Marcus.Aurelius · 27-08-2008 2:50pm

I agree with ClioV6, I'd pay the fine, her license number will be correct, as is her address, you haven't got sufficient reason to challenge it as far as I can see.

smash · 27-08-2008 2:56pm

If it goes to court they'll make you pay the fine and give you a conviction on your license!

Collie D · 27-08-2008 3:03pm

Fair enough, thanks for responses. She wanted to pay it, I was just wondering.

Thanks

Sunset V · 27-08-2008 3:09pm

Myself, my brother and my mother all got off points as a result of the surname being spelt wrong. I'd say risk it coz I only three people that it has happened to and the three people got off it.

BrandonBlock · 27-08-2008 3:12pm

Ring a couple of solicitors as they would be able to advise you a lot better than anyone on this forum (no offence). Unless this has happened to the people who replied on here and it wasn't thrown out of court, you aren't really able to comment.

cpoh1 · 27-08-2008 3:15pm

steve06 wrote: »

If it goes to court they'll make you pay the fine and give you a conviction on your license!

And what kind of conviction would that be? Rubbish talk if ever I heard it...

If you really want to fight this one my advice would be to ignore the fine and wait for a summons for non payment. When you get up in front of the judge tell him you never received the fine and ask was there a chance the name and address was correct on the fine when it was posted. The prosecuting garda will have a copy of the fine with your name incorrect on it and you have a99% chance of getting off that way. Chances are even if you dont you wont get the worst case scenario 4 point and increased fine.

Sunset V · 27-08-2008 3:17pm

BrandonBlock wrote: »

Ring a couple of solicitors as they would be able to advise you a lot better than anyone on this forum (no offence). Unless this has happened to the people who replied on here and it wasn't thrown out of court, you aren't really able to comment.

I'd agree with Brandon and I would never say risk it jsut for the sake of it, or on a whim, only that it happened to me and members of my immediate family.

At the end of the day it comes down to the judge and he/she is feeling on the day. It always does. The risk is great but so to is the reward.

maidhc · 27-08-2008 3:17pm

cpoh1 wrote: »

And what kind of conviction would that be? Rubbish talk if ever I heard it...

If you really want to fight this one my advice would be to ignore the fine and wait for a summons for non payment. When you get up in front of the judge tell him you never received the fine and ask was there a chance the name and address was correct on the fine when it was posted. The prosecuting garda will have a copy of the fine with your name incorrect on it and you have a99% chance of getting off that way. Chances are even if you dont you wont get the worst case scenario 4 point and increased fine.

So long as you don't have a problem with perjuring yourself.

Wishbone Ash · 27-08-2008 3:19pm

cpoh1 wrote: »

tell him you never received the fine

Perjury would be a much more serious offence!

Marcus.Aurelius · 27-08-2008 3:20pm

cpoh, the poster is correct. If you accept the fine and pay it, you are convicted of the offense and issued with two points.

If you go to court and lose the appeal, you are convicted of the offence and issued with four points, as well as the higher fine.

cpoh1 · 27-08-2008 3:21pm

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Perjury would be a much more serious offence!

Dont you have to be under oath to commit perjury? Ive never seen someone been put under oath in the circuit court over a speeding fine. Besides if a garda can go to court and commit perjury on a daily basis im ok with it too.

Sunset V · 27-08-2008 3:22pm

cpoh1 wrote: »

Dont you have to be under oath to commit perjury? Ive never seen someone been put under oath in the circuit court over a speeding fine. Besides if a garda can go to court and commit perjury on a daily basis im ok with it too.

+1

Marcus.Aurelius · 27-08-2008 3:22pm

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Perjury would be a much more serious offence!

If she was stopped by the gardaí (rather than GATSO detection) the garda in the court will be able to inform the judge that the defendent knew the fine was to be issued.

Some judges are very lenient, some have been known to take the hardass line on this plea.

Whatever you do OP, be fully informed.

Marcus.Aurelius · 27-08-2008 3:23pm

cpoh1 wrote: »

Besides if a garda can go to court and commit perjury on a daily basis im ok with it too.

Care to explain this?

Perjury is the act of lying or making verifiably false statements on a material matter under oath or affirmation in a court of law or in any of various sworn statements in writing

cpoh1 · 27-08-2008 3:28pm

Joker wrote: »

If she was stopped by the gardaí (rather than GATSO detection) the garda in the court will be able to inform the judge that the defendent knew the fine was to be issued.

The issue is not whether you knew you were caught speeding, its whether you were given ample opportunity to pay the fine. THe onus is on the prosecution to prove that you had this opportunity (by registered post or hand delivering the fine etc.). Anyway you can represent yourself and appeal to the district court if in the freak event that the judge sides with the prosecution.

If found guilty you are convicted of the crime of not paying the fine and your licence is endorsed. Your licence is not convicted, this makes no sense.

Marcus.Aurelius · 27-08-2008 3:31pm

cpoh1 wrote: »

The issue is not whether you knew you were caught speeding, its whether you were given ample opportunity to pay the fine. THe onus is on the prosecution to prove that you had this opportunity (by registered post or hand delivering the fine etc.). Anyway you can represent yourself and appeal to the district court if in the freak event that the judge sides with the prosecution.

If found guilty you are convicted of the crime of not paying the fine and your licence is endorsed. Your licence is not convicted, this makes no sense. You can be convicted

Very true.

Judges have become wise to this defence and some won't let it slide by, the OP needs to know that much anyway. From a moral point of view, it is perjury to make such statements.

Your license is endorsed if you pay the fine or lose the court case. You are convicted in both cicrcumstances as well.

If you are let off, there is no conviction, points or fines.

EDIT: Could you reply please to my last post? It's an odd statement to make.

smash · 27-08-2008 3:32pm

cpoh1 wrote: »

And what kind of conviction would that be? Rubbish talk if ever I heard it...

If you really want to fight this one my advice would be to ignore the fine and wait for a summons for non payment. When you get up in front of the judge tell him you never received the fine and ask was there a chance the name and address was correct on the fine when it was posted. The prosecuting garda will have a copy of the fine with your name incorrect on it and you have a99% chance of getting off that way. Chances are even if you dont you wont get the worst case scenario 4 point and increased fine.

go to court on any day and see the amount of people there for not paying traffic offense fines!

They get a traffic offense conviction and a fine! I was in a court 2 weeks ago and I couldn't believe how many were handed out. And what you're suggesting is going to court to lie and say you never got the fine.....

cpoh1 · 27-08-2008 3:33pm

Joker wrote: »

Care to explain this?

Perjury is the act of lying or making verifiably false statements on a material matter under oath or affirmation in a court of law or in any of various sworn statements in writing

How does this statement need explaining??? I have encountered first hand cases where gardai lie under oath. I know exactly what perjury means thank you very much and I have yet to see a speeding or other trivial traffic offence in the circuit court require the defendant to swear in while addressing the judge. So there is the distinction.

cpoh1 · 27-08-2008 3:38pm

steve06 wrote: »

go to court on any day and see the amount of people there for not paying traffic offense fines!

They get a traffic offense conviction and a fine! I was in a court 2 weeks ago and I couldn't believe how many were handed out. And what you're suggesting is going to court to lie and say you never got the fine.....

Yes, as I already posted you get convicted of non payment of a road traffic violation and your licence is endorsed. You do not get a conviction on your licence and you do not get convicted of the original offence, just the non payment of the fine. What you were trying to do was scaremonger the OP into thinking something big and bad will happen if you go to court.

@joker you stated earlier that perjury is a much bigger offence which is true but it doesnt apply here and moral or not if you are not sworn in you are not commiting perjury, the law is the law.

smash · 27-08-2008 3:38pm

I meant conviction and endoresment, I'm not scaremonger - I'm stating the facts!

cpoh1 · 27-08-2008 3:41pm

steve06 wrote: »

I meant conviction and endoresment, I'm not scaremonger - I'm stating the facts!

Well steve we're not all mind readers on here, in future type what you mean and be clear especially when giving someone advice!

smash · 27-08-2008 3:50pm

cpoh1 wrote: »

Well steve we're not all mind readers on here, in future type what you mean and be clear especially when giving someone advice!

My post was read properly by other people who cleared it up before I got a chance to, so get off your soap box and give it a rest.

maidhc · 27-08-2008 3:57pm

cpoh1 wrote: »

Dont you have to be under oath to commit perjury? Ive never seen someone been put under oath in the circuit court over a speeding fine. Besides if a garda can go to court and commit perjury on a daily basis im ok with it too.

No, you will never see it in the Circuirt court because all speeding fines are dealt with in the District Court.

However if you take the stand in any courtroom you will take the oath (or an affirmation if you dont do religion)

McCrack · 27-08-2008 5:33pm

To clear up a couple of misconceptions. A fixed penalty notice IS NOT A FINE. It is a fixed penalty notice. The person receiving it has the choice to pay it or not. Only a court upon conviction can fine a person. The person does not have a choice to ignore it like they can a FPN.

If a person received a FPN and they pay it they are accepting the accusation made but they ARE NOT convicted of any offence. Only a court can convict a person whose guilt is pleaded or proved beyond reasonable doubt.

Traffic offences such as speading, seat-belt, ins, drunk driving etc are prosecuted in the District Court not the Circuit.

My advice would be to pay the FPN. The Judge has the discretion to have the summons amended if it's a typo. and all other material details are correct.

Marcus.Aurelius · 27-08-2008 6:45pm

cpoh1 I asked you to provide examples, not hit back with smartarse "I know what perjury is and all guards do it 'cos I'm well cool" replies.

Unless you have proof of it where a Garda was caught out and prosecuted for it in a speeding fine case, it's not relevant and thus off-topic.

And you well know Boards.ie cannot tolerate the advocation of illegal acts.

cpoh1 · 27-08-2008 6:52pm

Joker wrote: »

cpoh1 I asked you to provide examples, not hit back with smartarse "I know what perjury is and all guards do it 'cos I'm well cool" replies.

Unless you have proof of it where a Garda was caught out and prosecuted for it in a speeding fine case, it's not relevant and thus off-topic.

And you well know Boards.ie cannot tolerate the advocation of illegal acts.

I think you should change your username from joker to clown my friend!

Guy:Incognito · 27-08-2008 7:00pm

cpoh1 wrote: »

And what kind of conviction would that be? Rubbish talk if ever I heard it...

If you really want to fight this one my advice would be to ignore the fine and wait for a summons for non payment. When you get up in front of the judge tell him you never received the fine and ask was there a chance the name and address was correct on the fine when it was posted. The prosecuting garda will have a copy of the fine with your name incorrect on it and you have a99% chance of getting off that way. Chances are even if you dont you wont get the worst case scenario 4 point and increased fine.

They will know the adress was right, how could the name being spelled wrong stop it getting there if the adress was right?

cpoh1 wrote: »

I think you should change your username from joker to clown my friend!

Because he asked you to prove that Gards regularly lie in court? Just becaus eyou say something doesnt make it true.

Marcus.Aurelius · 27-08-2008 7:09pm

cpoh1 wrote: »

I think you should change your username from joker to clown my friend!

Meh, you're not worth the effort.

If you can't back up the statement then it wasn't worth your effort either. :rolleyes:

I won't report the personal attack, because I know you can be civil if you want to be.

peasant · 27-08-2008 7:10pm

cpoh1 wrote: »

I think you should change your username from joker to clown my friend!

Tone it down "my friend" or you're taking a break from here

cpoh1 · 27-08-2008 9:52pm

peasant wrote: »

Tone it down "my friend" or you're taking a break from here

No offence peasant my friend but I couldnt give a rats ass if you want me to tone it down or if you'll give me a "break" for speaking my mind. Ill always speak my mind and give my opinion regardless, do people really feel threatened or bothered by a week away from a silly messageboard?

Anyway to the topic at hand I had a case against a garda (the details will remain private) where I was injured due to their negligence, that garda lied about the circmstances on the stand and was found out after a neutral witness to the incident gave their evidence. I have first hand experience where a family member was brought to court for careless or dangerous driving where gardai h lied under oath to exagerrate the nature of the incident (preactically doubling the speed of the car in the incident).

If someone cant get the name of the offender correct after reading it on a licence (something my 7 year old could do) how can they be trusted to get the specifics of a speed check in order? Its fairly straightforward when going to court over a speeding indiscretion, be respectable and well dressed, plead innocent on never receiving the fine explaining that you would have had no problem paying it and dont be smart towards the judge and the fine will be truck out of court. It happens up and down the country every day.

Is it immoral, maybe but so are most speed checks. The law is there and can be used by both sides.

peasant · 27-08-2008 10:05pm

thou shalt not argue with thy moderator ...10 day break for cpoh1

Seth Brundle · 27-08-2008 10:08pm

cpoh1 wrote: »

No offence peasant my friend but I couldnt give a rats ass if you want me to tone it down or if you'll give me a "break" for speaking my mind. Ill always speak my mind and give my opinion regardless, do people really feel threatened or bothered by a week away from a silly messageboard?

If you think its a silly messageboard then you know where the door is - please feel free to use it before someone (e.g. me) shows you the way out!

edit: damn - missed my chance!

Name Spelled Wrong on Speeding Fine

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