Annual Leave question

bonzer1again

I'm working in a company and my holiday entitlements are 20 days, however anyone that was started before 2000 gets an extra 5 days. Am I being discriminated against? How can this be true....I understand that the Union agreed to this....So the union just keep fobbing me off, evertime I ask.
My job title is the same as all those in receipt of the 5 days and I get the same pay, but they get an extra 5 days a year.

kayos

Cry more you will find that in a lot of places you go. Many private companies will give additional leave days after a few years service etc. Nothing wrong with it.

Nody

Perfectly legal, different contracts, different conditions. You signed the dotted line with the agreed terms, if they decide to offer someone else twice our salary for the same position that is also perfectly legal even though you may not like it.

bonzer1again

Actually, It is nothing to do with length of time served as I am with the company almost 7 years, and with regards to different contracts, that doesn't apply either as My contract is the exact same as those in receipt of the extra days (I checked)

markpb

Unions have brought in this wierd idea that everyone should have the same contract and the same entitlements. A contract is between you and your employer - no-one else. If theirs is different, it doesn't affect you and it doesn't discriminate you. You read it, you signed it, end of.

bonzer1again

OK, if thats the case what about the compnay just giving me an extra 10 days and everyone else having 5 days less than. Your argument doesn't hold water....If I do the same job as my colleagues I should get the same pay and working conditions. Simple as that. The fact that they started on a date before me seems to be the only factor that was taken into question in deciding whether or not they were entitled to extra benefits. 5 days a year, for the rest of their working careers = 1 full working year off by the time you are 65. Nowhere in my contract or theirs does it say that they were entiltled to this!!!!!!!!

markpb

Companies regularly deviate from their normal annual leave allowance, either as a cost cutting measure or to entice a particular person to join the company. It's unfair but it's not illegal or discriminatory.

Eoin

The argument completely holds water - the contract is not between your colleagues and you, it's between you and your employer. There are lots of cases where people are getting paid less than their subordinates, because someone drove a better bargain.

Say someone is offered a job in a company and is told that there is 20 days leave as part of the contract. If the candidate says that they got 23 days in their last job, and anything less would be a deal-breaker, the company may well decide to give the extra days. Does that mean they should then give the extra days to everyone else?

bonzer1again

How many times do I have to say it, Their contract is the same as mine stating that they are entitled to 20 days leave, just like me. So how are they entitled to more days off!!!!

Maglight

bonzer1again wrote: »

The fact that they started on a date before me seems to be the only factor that was taken into question in deciding whether or not they were entitled to extra benefits. 5 days a year, for the rest of their working careers = 1 full working year off by the time you are 65. Nowhere in my contract or theirs does it say that they were entiltled to this!!!!!!!!

I would be curious to know how you have seen their contracts. They are usually confidential, but that's an aside. You say they have exactly the same contract as you ie. 20 days annual leave (the legal minimum in Ireland) and then you say they are entitled to 5 extra days. Sounds to me that they were given a discretionary 5 extra days. Sounds like management valued them enough to offer them an additional benefit, perhaps in lieu of a pay review, perhaps for length of service or perhaps for enhanced performance. Rather than moaning about what you haven't got, why don't you talk to your manager and find out what extra you have to do to get this additional benefit.

Sorry if I sound harsh, but that's the way business works

bonzer1again

Maglight, you seem to have grasped the point well!!, it is right that they were given a discretionary five days, this was after a local bargaining agreement between management and the Union to enhance performance, I have asked my manager and there is nothing I can do as it had a cutoff date of 2000. But this leads me back to my original question, If I was hired under the same terms and conditions as these people, and I do the same job at the same rate of pay.....why can't I be treated the same? and it doesn't just affect me it affects approximately 20 people. By the way they showed me their contracts.......So what can I do to be treated the same....How do I chase this?

Eoin

Are you a member of this union that is fobbing you off? If you're not, then join up.

If you are a member, and they are not interested in chasing this up for you, does that not indicate that they don't see a problem with it either?

Tom Dunne

bonzer1again wrote: »

But this leads me back to my original question, If I was hired under the same terms and conditions as these people, and I do the same job at the same rate of pay.....why can't I be treated the same?

Because you weren't hired at the same time.

Simple.

It was an agreement between the employees and the company at that time. You weren't there at that time therefore, it doesn't apply to you.

The agreement probably stated something along the lines of current employees, not future employees.

If you don't like working there, change jobs.

Simple.

AARRRGH

bonzer1again wrote: »

what can I do to be treated the same....How do I chase this?

You sound like an absolute pain in the hole of an employee.

Your colleagues made an agreement with their managers before you even worked for the company. Their agreement has absolutely nothing to do with you.

I don't believe you that they didn't get an updated contract, but that's beside the point.

You do realise being a pain in the hole of an employee is a great way to damage your career?

board om

AARRRGH wrote: »

You sound like an absolute pain in the hole of an employee.

Your colleagues made an agreement with their managers before you even worked for the company. Their agreement has absolutely nothing to do with you.

I don't believe you that they didn't get an updated contract, but that's beside the point.

You do realise being a pain in the hole of an employee is a great way to damage your career?

+1

you hit the nail right on the head

bonzer1again

Oh, I love this, I pose a legitimate question about a problem that I am having at work, and I get shot down by some right wing novice + 1, I'm guessing you've never had a problem at work (or worked maybe).....STUDYING TOO HARD are we, AAAARGH? Hope your studies , gets you where you want to be, a job in a utopian workplace. by the way my career is going quite well, because I prepare , sometimes by asking questions on Forums.

Anyway thanks everyone for your contributions It has answered my question!

AARRRGH

Nice person.

Best of luck.

wmpdd3

In my last job, conditions changed in 1996 before the 'working time directive 1997' came in. Other managers doing the same job as me, but who were employed at that time had treble pay on a Sunday, no late nights, double pay for Good Friday or 2 days off in lieu etc. We all have the same contracts as new ones are signed with promotions etc.

DonJose

Maybe your co-workers are productive, while you on the other hand are dossing around on boards.ie during office hours

27-08-2008, 11:09
27-08-2008, 15:04
27-08-2008, 16:35
28-08-2008, 09:58

CDfm

go to HR for the lowdown

If its individual can an individual negeotiate more holidays - Im forever being screwed as my holidays cant be fitted with kids school breaks.

what can i do.

AARRRGH

CDfm wrote: »

Im forever being screwed as my holidays cant be fitted with kids school breaks.

what can i do.

You're not being screwed. The employer is allowed choose when you take your holidays. If I remember correctly they need to give you a continuous two week block so you can do the typical family holiday.

philtaylor

yeah its perfectly legal to do this. worth having do in case your performance review comes up. However as with most places as some of the posters have already said they will give you extra holidays for years of service.