ComReg - gutless

35notout

another fine example of Comreg bowing to Eircom.....


http://www.siliconrepublic.com/news/article/11291/

delop

Sigh, What is the point of comreg at all :-(

Well at least Eircom have the good grace to do this pubically thru the courts rather than bribing politicians like another industry we know if...


Wonder if I can get a job in comreg, must be wonderfully relaxing :-)

Onikage

Bit of an ad for Magnet.

Seems like a stupid move on Eircoms behalf, the fact that they moved to block the year-long trial instead of offering to negotiate is not going to help their defense against the inevitable anti-competitive charges.

paulm17781

When Comreg initially announced this, I thought they were finally doing their jobs and things were going to change. Silly me...

Rather_b_diving

This is typical of this country - didn't the minister say last year that he was giving COMREG extra powers? Oh that was extra powers but no money for court cases. But we can't forget about poor eircom they need the money for their poor Ozzie owners who aren't doing too well. Can we open a book on how long it'll take for them to be up for sale again?

I'm suprised BT and Smart haven't come out against this as well as Magnet - the bigger issue for them was the hoped for full LLU reduction which would be more beneficial than the line share reduction - but if lineshare is off the table then full LLU price cuts are definitely not going to happen for a long time :-(

I bet we'll hear Gormley talk about the knowledge economy and how disappointing this is but we won't see him back up comreg. God knows we're paying for enough lawyers for all the tribunals why can't we get them to fight our case on this and actually do some good?

dub45

What baffles me is why did Comreg make their announcement in the first place if they were not prepared to see it through?

Eircom's response was predictable - Comreg could not have expected them to do otherwise - any company in Eircom's position would likely respond as Eircom did.

Comreg look plain silly to put it charitably.

thebman

I'm confused, aren't eircom the ones with no cash? Should have taken on the court case and see who went bankrupt first.

ntlbell

35notout wrote: »

another fine example of Comreg bowing to Eircom.....


http://www.siliconrepublic.com/news/article/11291/

shock horror

lmimmfn

dub45 wrote: »

What baffles me is why did Comreg make their announcement in the first place if they were not prepared to see it through?

Eircom's response was predictable - Comreg could not have expected them to do otherwise - any company in Eircom's position would likely respond as Eircom did.

Comreg look plain silly to put it charitably.

Exactly, Comreg making threats and Eircon pissing on them knowing theyre a Mickey Mouse organisation.

Im really surprised BT and Smart arent taking advantage of Eircoms unwillingness to improve anything while keeping their monopoly, because if eircom are sold off by the end of the year and the buyer investing in the network it will strengthen Eircoms monopoly position further, so id blame lack of investment by the other telcos also for the situation

Cabaal

Not surprising at all, yet another example of Comregs massive lack of power
Comreg the gutless wounder!

dub45

Cabaal wrote: »

Not surprising at all, yet another example of Comregs massive lack of power
Comreg the gutless wounder!

The point I am making is that this is very poor planning on Comreg's part.

Given the amount of money Eircom stood to lose as a result of Comreg's announcement it was predictable that Eircom would go to the courts. Eircom have every right and probably an obligation on behalf of their shareholders to test the legality of Comreg's decision.

Comreg had to know this unless they are idiots so why did the make the announcement - presumably they had sought good legal advice on their proposal - if they were not prepared to see it through?

Cabaal

Oh I'd agree, Eircom were bound to fight tooth n nail on this in order to protect there profits and shareholders, comreg should have expected this.

It sets a bad future when Eircom start winning by default any case they take against comreg

paulm17781

brim4brim wrote: »

I'm confused, aren't eircom the ones with no cash? Should have taken on the court case and see who went bankrupt first.

Government cutbacks. Eircon have massive debts, they probably have a more certain future than Comreg ('s funding) at the minute though.

dub45

Cabaal wrote: »

Oh I'd agree, Eircom were bound to fight tooth n nail on this in order to protect there profits and shareholders, comreg should have expected this.

It sets a bad future when Eircom start winning by default any case they take against comreg

Again you seem to be emphasing Eircom's role here as if they are the bad boys for simply exercising their legal rights.

Eircom are only doing what any company in their position would do. It is lousy, lousy management on Comreg's part (irrespective of what legal power they may or may not have) not to have anticipated this. In fact the more I think about it the more mindbogglingly inept it bcomes:rolleyes:

dub45

paulm17781 wrote: »

Government cutbacks. Eircon have massive debts, they probably have a more certain future than Comreg ('s funding) at the minute though.

The likely costs of any court case should have been taken into account by Comreg before making their announcement. A court case in this instance was as safely predictable as our summer rain.

Onikage

Normally I'd be here going "ra ra ra down with Comreg", but maybe they have a plan. Let's face it, they badly need a victory at this stage, otherwise Comreg will be shut down and they'd all be let go and branded as unemployable losers.

paulm17781

dub45 wrote: »

The likely costs of any court case should have been taken into account by Comreg before making their announcement. A court case in this instance was as safely predictable as our summer rain.

I don't disagree, I just wonder if they initially had the cash for this and new budgetary constraints made them withdraw.

thebman

dub45 wrote: »

The point I am making is that this is very poor planning on Comreg's part.

Given the amount of money Eircom stood to lose as a result of Comreg's announcement it was predictable that Eircom would go to the courts. Eircom have every right and probably an obligation on behalf of their shareholders to test the legality of Comreg's decision.

Comreg had to know this unless they are idiots so why did the make the announcement - presumably they had sought good legal advice on their proposal - if they were not prepared to see it through?

I think Comreg knew they wouldn't challenge in court and knew it would go to court.

I imagine the announcement was to safe face in public by making look like the organisation is doing some good. All they've basically ever had is bad publicity and this was an attempt at making it look like they did something and then backing down on it once they go their headline in the business section.

Have to remember when they announced this whole LLU price reduction thing was about the same time everyone started talking about recessions.

Onikage wrote: »

Normally I'd be here going "ra ra ra down with Comreg", but maybe they have a plan. Let's face it, they badly need a victory at this stage, otherwise Comreg will be shut down and they'd all be let go and branded as unemployable losers.

Exactly how many government agencies have had people let off in the past 10 years.

jor el

brim4brim wrote: »

I imagine the announcement was to safe face in public by making look like the organisation is doing some good.

That's exactly what I thought. Something like:

"Oh look at how good we are at doing our job. Oh wait, we're being brought to court but can't afford it. Oh noes Ah well, at least we tried, and everyone can see that we did great. Now we're off to find ManBearPig, then we'll be the heroes...".

I just sent an email off to Eamonn Ryan, asking him to disband Comreg, and hence save all that precious money that Brian Cowan has asked of all his departments. Full wording

me wrote:

Dear Minister Ryan,

I am writing in reference to an article on Silicon Republic(
http://www.siliconrepublic.com/news/article/11291 ) which states that
Comreg has backed down on it's proposal to have eircom reduce the
wholesale line rental price for LLU operators, from the current €8.41,
to €2.94. Comreg have stated that they don't believe the cost involved
in a court case would be worth it. Why did Comreg even announce this
price reduction if they were never going to follow through? Given the
potential cost to eircom, and it's current financial situation (as well
as that of it's owner company, Babcock and Browne), it was obvious to
all that eircom were going to appeal the directive. This is just
another, in a long line, of utterly useless directives by Comreg, and
shows just what an absolute waste of money that entire department is.

This cut in LLU pricing was desperately needed to spur development, and
investment, in Ireland's aging and crumbling telephone/DSL
infrastructure, at a time when we really do need serious investment in
this area. The decision to not reduce the LLU pricing is going to put
current operators under pressure, while keeping potential operators out
of an area that for practically every other European country, has been a
resounding success. Why, oh why, should we continue to be at the very
bottom of every league table, from Eurovision to Internet access and
availability?

Given the recent cutbacks requested by your government colleagues, I
would respectively suggest that your department offer to disband Comreg,
sack everyone who works there, as they obviously don't do anything, and
hence save this country quite a lot of money. We can then leave eircom
to charge, and do, whatever they like, just like they currently do,
except we won't be throwing away tax payers money on top of the already
over inflated prices we all pay.

I hope you don't think I'm being facetious in this email, as I'm not,
I'm being 100% serious here. Disband Comreg, as it's nothing but a waste
of money and a drain on the tight resources available.

Either that, or give them the power (and put someone in charge who's
willing to use them) to sort out the dire communications industry in
this country. It's not just eircom that treats the people of Ireland as
if they were an ATM machine, practically every ISP and Telecom operator
treat their customers in the same way. A proper regulator wouldn't allow
the constant cases of over charging, lack of obedience of the Direct
Debit rules by TeleCos, lying to customers about product and service
availability, lying about the causes of problems (wholesale operators
are forever blaming eircom when the problem is often their own) and many
other issues.

It is time this mess was sorted out, and as Minister for Communications,
it is your responsibility, and duty to the people of Ireland, to sort
it. Take a moment to seriously look over the success and/or failings of
Comreg since it's inception. Compare Ireland to the rest of Europe
(again seriously, and not using the fudged figures that Comreg and your
own department often use) and make the decision, hard as it may seem,
that has to be made.

Kind regards,

Me

I would suggest that everyone else send their thoughts to Minister Ryan, and maybe he'll start listening.

Onikage

brim4brim wrote: »

Exactly how many government agencies have had people let off in the past 10 years.

Agencies don't employ civil servants and lots of the workers are on contract.

Onikage

brim4brim wrote: »

I imagine the announcement was to safe face in public by making look like the organisation is doing some good. All they've basically ever had is bad publicity and this was an attempt at making it look like they did something and then backing down on it once they go their headline in the business section.

They still have to follow through like they promise in the press release or they'll be facing a bleak future. If they don't announce a backup plan by tomorrow then I'll gladly concede they had nothing up their sleeve and really are a complete waste of space.

markpb

Maybe I should be in the conspirary theory board but I wonder if someone had a word with the relevant minister pointing out that a reduction in LLU charges would leave Eircom even more cash strapped than theyand it might hamper future investment in Ireland, yada yada.

damien

paulm17781 wrote: »

Eircon have massive debts, they probably have a more certain future than Comreg ('s funding) at the minute though.

ComReg are funded by eircom, BT Ireland, O2 etc. etc., they give their surplus (and it's generallly massive) to the Government.

Onikage

markpb wrote: »

Maybe I should be in the conspirary theory board but I wonder if someone had a word with the relevant minister pointing out that a reduction in LLU charges would leave Eircom even more cash strapped than theyand it might hamper future investment in Ireland, yada yada.

Lowering the barrier to entry usually increases the size of any market, and subsequently increases the opportunity to sell value added services where all the real money is made anyway.

markpb

Onikage wrote: »

Lowering the barrier to entry usually increases the size of any market, and subsequently increases the opportunity to sell value added services where all the real money is made anyway.

I'm not justifying their (hypothetical) argument, just saying that it's possible they asked it. It's not unknown for companies to want to retain their monopoly and their ability to blow competitors out of the market. Aer Lingus were the same when Ryanair came along - they didn't think airlines could survive if the ticket price fell so they kept the prices high and objected to Ryanair competing with them.

Onikage

Oh, I know you're not. I just think even a bad politician would spot a potential powderkeg like that and avoid it.

And we all know what happened to Aer Lingus

Onikage

Oh, I know you're not. I just think even a bad politician would spot a potential powderkeg like that and avoid it.

And we all know what happened to Aer Lingus

lmimmfn

ComReg should be shut down completely, what a total waste of taxpayers money and this is a clear example of what theyre about, a whole load of them sitting around twiddling their thumbs coming up with ideas for the laugh knowing they'll never amount to anything

I must say working for ComReg must be one of the best jobs at the moment, no commitment, no responsibility, noone to answer to and a nice fat pay check at the end of the month for lack of any effort, how do i apply?

Sponge Bob

Comreg have been dicking around with LLU since 1999 and getting almost nowhere,benchmarked internationally that is.

I made the following suggestion in This Thread .

To keep it simple just answer each and any question with.

"There is no market and no effective regulation in ireland. There is but a predatory monopoly in an unholy symbiotic relationship with an inept and visionless regulator.

Please abolish yourselves and let somebody competent take your place for the sake of all of us and our children and livestock too. "

By the way , that was 4 1/2 years ago . My opinion has not changed in the least since.

spuddy

I think Comreg haven't played this so badly.
What else could they have done?

If they set the price at €6 or €7, they would have been said to have no teeth, and in cahoots with the establishment.

By setting it at ~€3, they made the right choice.
It's a shame they haven't got the funds to defend it, but at least they've provoked debate on the topic, had an article printed in today's Times, and spurred on the likes of jor el to write to the Minister.

I suspect the intent is to put pressure on the Government to secure more funding. At minimum, it gives them a better starting position from where to negotiate with Eircom, better to start at €3 and work upwards, then start at €9 and work downwards.

damien

spuddy wrote: »

It's a shame they haven't got the funds to defend it, but at least they've provoked debate on the topic

They have millions they can spend on this. ComReg are a money-making machine, they are not directly funded by the taxpayer, they get a percentage of the revenue of every telco in Ireland. The costs thing is a complete red herring especially given how much they spend on staff every year and consultation reports and still hand over the excess to the Government. They're one of the richest state agencies around. It's another one of the many lies that ComReg have used down though the years to cover brutal incompetence.

Sponge Bob

spuddy wrote: »

At minimum, it gives them a better starting position from where to negotiate with Eircom, better to start at €3 and work upwards, then start at €9 and work downwards.

Its taken them all of 9 years , consultations out of their arses and countless court cases and even international expert panels in 2002/2003 to get to €9 . That's why I wanted to abolish them well over 4 years ago.

Read about "The Professor" and weep. That was nearly 6 years back FFS eircom took Comreg to court and Comreg chickened . Sound familiar ?????

Comreg should be abolished now and the staff individually charged with conspiracy to defraud the public purse . The whole dismal miserable crooked spineless lot of them

lmimmfn

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Its taken them all of 9 years , consultations out of their arses and countless court cases and even international expert panels in 2002/2003 to get to €9 . That's why I wanted to abolish them well over 4 years ago.

Read about "The Professor" and weep. That was nearly 6 years back FFS eircom took Comreg to court and Comreg chickened . Sound familiar ?????

Comreg should be abolished now and the staff individually charged with conspiracy to defraud the public purse . The whole dismal miserable crooked spineless lot of them

not to mention their line rental has increased by 10% since then

spuddy

I may have just figured out the real reason they haven't taken this to court
http://www.comreg.ie/_fileupload/File/MPC.png

MunsterCycling

LOL

lmimmfn

spuddy wrote: »

I may have just figured out the real reason they haven't taken this to court
http://www.comreg.ie/_fileupload/File/MPC.png

lol, im just preparing my application haha

Sponge Bob

Oh Dear, but why has Sebastian not updated his Linked in Profile

AlmightyCushion

35notout wrote: »

another fine example of Comreg bowing to Eircom.....


http://www.siliconrepublic.com/news/article/11291/

It's more bending over then bowing down. Comreg probably realised it'd be cheaper and easier to buy a tube of KY and take it then to fight this in court.

smellslikeshoes

spuddy wrote: »

I may have just figured out the real reason they haven't taken this to court
http://www.comreg.ie/_fileupload/File/MPC.png

Good find

My opinion of this is if they can't make something like this stick whats the point in them really. Although I agree with spongebob's sentiment, abolishing them really isn't realistic, what needs to happen is a clear out of the wasters and most importantly a Minister who has the spine to keep them honest. Though having a minister for comms that in't spineless might be pretty unrealistic too.

lmimmfn

smellslikeshoes wrote: »

Good find

My opinion of this is if they can't make something like this stick whats the point in them really. Although I agree with spongebob's sentiment, abolishing them really isn't realistic, what needs to happen is a clear out of the wasters and most importantly a Minister who has the spine to keep them honest. Though having a minister for comms that in't spineless might be pretty unrealistic too.

And a minister who doesnt consider 3G/EDGE broadband

Sponge Bob

Abolishing them is a perfectly good idea. We have no regulator now in effect , having none de facto for a while would make no difference .

We have a country full of crap regulators and its only if we abolish one and put the bums on the street that we will get the other cúnts to do anything for us .

In 1996 we were the early Celtic Tiger and we were internationally competitive, we had NO regulators. Now we are awash with lazy useless cúnts with important job titles and we are a ****ing economic basket case that can attrack no FDI.

We need to make an example of one as a matter of grave national urgency .

I posted this OVER a year back . Nothing has changed .....save for the worse. It's now even more of an imperative !

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=53442531&postcount=32

Comreg has manifestly failed to use its powers where it had same.

Consider it a culture of failure that permeates the thing from top to bottom . Once these cultures of failure become embedded in an organisation such as Comreg you find youself with a failed institution. No amount of name and legislative changes can uproot this deeply embedded culture. One must then consider the only solution possible for a failed institution which is outright abolition and recreation of the necessary bits ab initio ./

A failed institution is a dynamically complex scenario but once it happens there is no point wasting time and effort with it. It could be a school or a hospital or a regulator .

Once it fails then abolition must be considered . Comreg is the best ( ie worst ) example in the bloated Irish regulatory sector .

In certain cases such as the eircom 3.5ghz fiasco Comreg have lied and obfuscated repeatedly to cover their own inadequacies as a regulator.

Comreg deliberately diluted their own rollout requirements for 3.5ghz rather than enforce the contract remedies for not compliance with the rollout. This particular remedy was contract law 101 and not some complex administrative 'powers' stuff that would wreck their little heads .

For this , and for many other failures and lies and excuses , they must be abolished as quickly as possible .

As for the myriad other regulators and micro regulators in this country , the abolition of Comreg (which is one of the more ancient ones) would have a galvanising effect .

Its all really Pour Encourager Les Autres as Voltaire elegantly put it long ago .