M50 Toll - Video Recognition

mobpd

Hi
Anyone have knowledge of the success rate of the video recognition? If the camera has a clear view of the number plate, would it register a charge against the plate / account immediately? Is there any time delay? If it cannot be automatically read / charged then whats the timeframe for some drone to look at the picture and work out its my car ?
I am asking because I'm thinking of going video recognition account route at least initially to see if I'm charged each time...perhaps the truck right in front of me, heavy rain, muck from the roads might somehow *obscure* the plate.
However is there a onus on me to check if my account has been charged before the 24 hours has elaspsed and if not ring the call centre to 'volunteer' paying........

BluntGuy

Apparently the success rate is very high. In the UK, number plate recognition on speed cameras is quite accurate. But if it goes wrong, rest assured that a host of well thought out 'measures' will be taken to 'correct' any 'minor' problems that may arise - in other words, they'll do all they can to squeeze that two euro out of you. Or maybe you just won't have to pay.

patrickc

video recognition will be 2.50

With two sets of gantries & cameras, there's a very good chance that the plate will be read. They don't have to do an instant analasys, the difficult ones can be left for "intensive crunching" during quieter times.

Tailgating a lorry during a downpour, I'd say you've a good chance of getting away with the toll but a good chance of getting a ticket for dangerous driving.

Best chances are when there is crawling traffic, easy to tuck in behind a lorry without tailgating.

Bluetonic

BluntGuy wrote: »

Apparently the success rate is very high. In the UK, number plate recognition on speed cameras is quite accurate. But if it goes wrong, rest assured that a host of well thought out 'measures' will be taken to 'correct' any 'minor' problems that may arise - in other words, they'll do all they can to squeeze that two euro out of you. Or maybe you just won't have to pay.

Of course it's 2.50 euro for video recognition.

Irish and Proud

patrickc wrote: »

video recognition will be 2.50

...if you pre-register for video recognition, and €3.00 if you don't. AFAIK, electronic tagging works out at €2.00 per trip + €1.00 per month for maintenance.

Regards! :cool:

ga2re2t

Here are some examples:

|12 trips per year|24 trips per year|450 trips per year
Tag registered |36.00 |60.00 |912.00
Video registered |30.00 |60.00 |1125.00
Non-registered |36.00 |72.00 |1350.00

So, if you'll be making more than 24 trips per year, it's probably worth your while getting a tag

ardmacha

A tag is also convenient, although not saving money, if you ever use the port tunnel, M1, M4, M8 etc. So if over 20 trips at all I'd say go for the tag.

Skyhater

Aren't the camera's pointing in both directions. ie they can read both your front and rear numberplate.
So you have to be tailgating a truck while another truck is tailgating you!!! I can see accidents ahead!!!!!!!

stiofanD

my understanding is that they will only read the front number plate - which is why motorbikes will be free once the barriers go up (no front number plate on bikes!)

ga2re2t

Came across this on YouTube. It appears Stockholm is using the same technology as the M50.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfotoREVxVQ

Re: Stockholm system, One good idea is a daily ceiling on fees collected.

ga2re2t

Deleted User wrote: »

Re: Stockholm system, One good idea is a daily ceiling on fees collected.

and the 15 days to pay the bill seems somewhat more logical, compared to the next day before 8 pm rule with the M50.

Tipsy Mac

It has a 90-95% success rate, those that don't fall into this category are manually checked by people reviewing video footage of cars which plates did not register.

ardmacha

Do they have access to the full registration database. For example if they can't quite see if is a "05 D ****6" or "05 D ****8" can they check the colour and make of the cars to help decide.

Well the basic info you see when you register, is make model & colour.

ardmacha

But what of cars that do not register, but have to be sent a bill anyway. They have the address of the motorist, do they also have full details of the make and model of the vehicle?

ardmacha

ardmacha wrote: »

But what of cars that do not register, but have to be sent a bill anyway. They have the address of the motorist, do they also have full details of the make and model of the vehicle?

the vehicle registration database has all the info needed.

Capt'n Midnight

patrickc wrote: »

video recognition will be 2.50

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUG1GexVz2k

Seth Brundle

I asked this in the thread in the motors forum but nobody yet knows - can someone here tell me if there is an appeals process.
I have no need nor intention to use the toll bridge but I can see myself getting charged!

fletch

kbannon wrote: »

I have no need nor intention to use the toll bridge but I can see myself getting charged!

I don't understand?

mobpd

fletch wrote: »

I don't understand?

Yes - what if someone is driving around with made up number plates that match my legit ones? Doubt they would have the same make of car, colur etc with the same plates.
But what if the video recog system misread or the drone looking at the video misread a number plate and came up with my plate - and they charge me - whats the appeal process?

mobpd

mobpd wrote: »

Yes - what if someone is driving around with made up number plates that match my legit ones? Doubt they would have the same make of car, colur etc with the same plates.
But what if the video recog system misread or the drone looking at the video misread a number plate and came up with my plate - and they charge me - whats the appeal process?

A common tactic in London since the congestion charges came in, I't's illegal for a shop to supply plates without proof of ownership.

Guess what! crooks buy materials and make their own!

Seth Brundle

Not just that - mistakes can be made.
I'd be surprised if some people who drive through the system who have a toll tag transponder thingy don't get billed through one of the payment other mechanisms! Nothing man made is infallible!
What happens when the link to the database goes down? Will they have manual checking of registrations?

markpb

kbannon wrote: »

What happens when the link to the database goes down? Will they have manual checking of registrations?

I'd imagine they have an offline copy of the database, it's not like it changes all that often (in the grand scheme of things). Failing that, there's no reason why the billing can't be delayed for a few hours.

dymonaz

Well it's all cool for Stockholm people to get rid of their cars, as the train/metro system is running smoothly, there are indicators in every *bus* stop of how long you have to wait for the next one (and they DO come whenever it says they will) and as for general travelling - the country wide train system seemed to be running almost perfectly.

ga2re2t wrote: »

Came across this on YouTube. It appears Stockholm is using the same technology as the M50.

AlekSmart

Too bloody true...just look at what happened last Monday when a simple phone line fault left DCC`s SCATS without it`s knickers......Haven`t heard too many responsible DCC types stepping up to the mike to offer an explaination either....;)

Tully

ga2re2t wrote: »

Here are some examples:

|12 trips per year|24 trips per year|450 trips per year
Tag registered |36.00 |60.00 |912.00
Video registered |30.00 |60.00 |1125.00
Non-registered |36.00 |72.00 |1350.00

So, if you'll be making more than 24 trips per year, it's probably worth your while getting a tag

If you are making more than 12 trips per year it is worth getting the tag.

voxpop

ga2re2t wrote: »

Here are some examples:

|12 trips per year|24 trips per year|450 trips per year
Tag registered |36.00 |60.00 |912.00
Video registered |30.00 |60.00 |1125.00
Non-registered |36.00 |72.00 |1350.00

So, if you'll be making more than 24 trips per year, it's probably worth your while getting a tag

Another option is Tolltag.ie - their pay as you toll+. No admin fee but they add 10% to each toll (2.20 for M50) so you get.

|12 trips per year|24 trips per year|450 trips per year
pay as you toll+ |26.4 |52.8 |990


These are the crowd Ive gone with.

Colonel Sanders

voxpop wrote: »

Another option is Tolltag.ie - their pay as you toll+. No admin fee but they add 10% to each toll (2.20 for M50) so you get.

|12 trips per year|24 trips per year|450 trips per year
pay as you toll+ |26.4 |52.8 |990


These are the crowd Ive gone with.

me too, use the M50 very infrequently so It makes sense to register and pay 2.20 a go ratehr than get billed for a monthly charge when i don't use it

Little Miss Cutie

Tolltag charge you an additonal 10% at all toll booths so if you are using it at anyone regularly it will add up to alot more than the €1 a month eflow, just a 2c.

voxpop

Cutie_pc wrote: »

Tolltag charge you an additonal 10% at all toll booths so if you are using it at anyone regularly it will add up to alot more than the €1 a month eflow, just a 2c.

Yeah - im in the lest than 24 times a year bracket, so tolltag works for me. I also think the admin charge is a load of bollix and would try to avoid it at all costs.

If you really wanted you could add an external switch to your tag and only switch it on for the M50

Seth Brundle

kbannon wrote: »

I asked this in the thread in the motors forum but nobody yet knows - can someone here tell me if there is an appeals process.
I have no need nor intention to use the toll bridge but I can see myself getting charged!

It seems that there will be something put in place; not that I'd put too much faith in it!
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2008/0829/1219875241810.html

Ogham

Colonel Sanders wrote: »

me too, use the M50 very infrequently so It makes sense to register and pay 2.20 a go ratehr than get billed for a monthly charge when i don't use it

The one drawback with the tolltag option is the need to pre load with 40 euro,
You could be better off with the post pay tag from Efow.ie (pay monthly after you use it).

Amtmann

ardmacha wrote: »

Do they have access to the full registration database. For example if they can't quite see if is a "05 D ****6" or "05 D ****8" can they check the colour and make of the cars to help decide.

It seems so. I just registered and when I put in my registration, it knew I own a red Golf.

Our man in Havana

kbannon wrote: »

It seems that there will be something put in place; not that I'd put too much faith in it!
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2008/0829/1219875241810.html

Not an independant appeal and there is no recourse to a court if the NRA don't accept a valid appeal.

Ernest

How typical of the NRA to set up an inconvenient and expensive system to rip-off the motorists of Ireland and to incorporate an extremely severe penalty if the toll is not paid within less than one day of use. After all, these are the same bozos who built hundreds of miles of motorway without a single "rest" stop - unique in Europe!! The same clowns who are taking years to surface the third lane of the M50 that they grassed off when it first opened thinking it wouldn't be needed. Of course such idiots would prefer to be their own judge and jury in the event of disputes about tolls. Remember, though, that this shower can only get away with all of the above because the Government and in particular the Minister for Transport ( currently Noel Dempsey ) allows them to do so. There will be a day of reckoning and the electorate can have revenge on polling day!

Tarabuses

Bond-007 wrote: »

Not an independant appeal and there is no recourse to a court if the NRA don't accept a valid appeal.

Where does it say that there is no recourse to a court?

dymonaz

Ernest wrote: »

After all, these are the same bozos who built hundreds of miles of motorway without a single "rest" stop - unique in Europe!!

Oh come on, hundreds of miles? Sure. But none of them is longer than 20 miles. And you don't really need to have rest in a very specific good quality, 20 mile stretch of something, which mostly consists of the r-quality-n-road, do you? It was always the plan to keep it that way!

dymonaz

dymonaz wrote: »

Oh come on, hundreds of miles? Sure. But none of them is longer than 20 miles. And you don't really need to have rest in a very specific good quality, 20 mile stretch of something, which mostly consists of the r-quality-n-road, do you? It was always the plan to keep it that way!

After the reclassifications they will be much longer, Athlone - Dublin will be 70 miles without a service station.

NedNew

Miles... what are they? Aren't they those measurements that died years ago just like gallons, hundred-weight, etc?

According to AA RoutePlanner, it is 123.3 km from Dublin to Athlone.

Our man in Havana

Of course it totally depends on where in Dublin you measure from.

ardmacha

Miles... what are they? Aren't they those measurements that died years ago just like gallons, hundred-weight, etc?

You forgot about pints.

Seth Brundle

dymonaz wrote: »

Oh come on, hundreds of miles? Sure. But none of them is longer than 20 miles. And you don't really need to have rest in a very specific good quality, 20 mile stretch of something, which mostly consists of the r-quality-n-road, do you? It was always the plan to keep it that way!

How many motorways have you been on? The M1 from Dublin to Dundalk is a bit longer than 20 miles!

jhegarty

Bond-007 wrote: »

Not an independant appeal and there is no recourse to a court if the NRA don't accept a valid appeal.

Surly a court will have to be involved at some stage, how else would they enforce the fines ?

Our man in Havana

They are not fines. They are penalties under contract. They can enforce in the civil courts. But the question remains, will they bother.

murphaph

Ernest wrote: »

How typical of the NRA to set up an inconvenient and expensive system to rip-off the motorists of Ireland and to incorporate an extremely severe penalty if the toll is not paid within less than one day of use. After all, these are the same bozos who built hundreds of miles of motorway without a single "rest" stop - unique in Europe!! The same clowns who are taking years to surface the third lane of the M50 that they grassed off when it first opened thinking it wouldn't be needed. Of course such idiots would prefer to be their own judge and jury in the event of disputes about tolls. Remember, though, that this shower can only get away with all of the above because the Government and in particular the Minister for Transport ( currently Noel Dempsey ) allows them to do so. There will be a day of reckoning and the electorate can have revenge on polling day!

The NRA have a lot to answer for but seeing as they were established in 1993 and the Western Parkway opened in 1991 or thereabouts, this is not one of those things.

murphaph

Bond-007 wrote: »

They are not fines. They are penalties under contract. They can enforce in the civil courts. But the question remains, will they bother.

Indeed and what it there's a mass-campaign of non-payment (much easier than before)-will the government relent and abolish tolls on this stretch of road.

As an aside-there's no way in hell would I register for video recognition! You think I'm going to link my publically viewable reg number to my private credit/laser/bank number and let johnny scumbag have false plates made up to match his vehicle to mine?!

A tag is the only safe option IMO. If you only have a tag or pay later options then there's no account to 'hack'.

NedNew

NedNew wrote: »

Miles... what are they? Aren't they those measurements that died years ago just like gallons, hundred-weight, etc?

According to AA RoutePlanner, it is 123.3 km from Dublin to Athlone.

My car still measures distances in miles and will do so 'tilll it meets it's maker (recycled)

KhanTheMan

So let me get this right.

We (the tax payer) didnt like paying the tolls on the toll bridge. We launched a campaign to get rid of the toll barriers. We BOUGHT the toll bridge. And now we PAY MORE to use it, even though WE OWN it now.

Well done whoever got that one under the radar. We know who you are.

Whats left do tax (over and above what we all pay straight out of our income anyway)?

Transport - Done.
Rubbish - Done.
Air - Done.
Water - Coming Soon.

The easiest way to tax people for driving is to add the tax on to the petrol - oh, thats done too.

Next you'll be paying tax on the water flowing under the bridge in New Ross just because you looked at it once.

murphaph

KhanTheMan wrote: »

Next you'll be paying tax on the water flowing under the bridge in New Ross just because you looked at it once.

I think even our taxhappy government would pay you to go to New Ross!