Weight training is bad because...

Hanley

...it teaches you discipline, how to work hard for your goals and to persist with things. At least that's what the BBC would like you to believe.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7576733.stm

"I got into the gym cos I wanted to do something with myself. I thought that if I went to the gym and got a good body I might actually be able to get somewhere"

Tragic. These poor kids. Looking to do something with themselves...

kevpants

Studies of have proven that 100% of gym-goers will eventually die!

Wasn't some hack sniffing around here a few days ago looking for "real life" tales like this? I believ G'em ahd the thread locked before you could say "Silly season"

g'em

According to Men's Fitness magazine, Reece is one of a growing number of teenage boys in the UK wanting to beef and bulk up.

A recent survey by the publication showed 87% of respondents wanted to get more muscular.

ffs talk about a skewed sample.

Next thing you know we'll hear that 87% of readers of Vogue want to learn how to be more fashionable :rolleyes:

Roper

OH NO! OBESITY IS RISING! THIS IS TERRIBLE! YOUNG PEOPLE NEED TO WORK OUT AND GET FIT NOW!!!!

6 months later

OH NO! SOMEONE HELP! YOUNG PEOPLE ARE WORKING OUT TOO MUCH!!!!

Ah internet reportage. You gotta love how they have to fill those websites.

Vegeta

what a load of me bollix

amazingemmet

kevpants wrote: »

Studies of have proven that 98% of gym-goers will eventually die!

Corrected

amacachi

That poor guy. And he's probably happy with himself as well.

Rocket!

kevpants wrote: »

Studies of have proven that 100% of gym-goers will eventually die!"

WHAT!?! So you mean your man in the gym lied to me??

Haha, I think the whole story is gas. Some of the quotes are ridiculous. As G'em pointed out, what do you expect the results to be from readers of Men's Health. They were hardly gonna get the same reaction from 'Bowls players Weekly' now were they.

"I don't think it is. It seems like they are losing some of their innocence - boys should be boys running around the park with a football, not straining themselves pumping iron in the local gym." Do they not realise that most ppl that go to the gym actually enjoy the time they spend in there. Why are they making it out to be a chore that only adults are unlucky enough to be forced to do.

I also like "They have enough to worry about with puberty, education." Ha, do they think that going to the gym is taking away from that hour or two a night 16 yr old lads spend worrying about the horrors of puberty. Idiots.

Roper

By now I'd say my thoughts on the matter are well documented on this forum, but I do happen to agree with much of the report, just not the sensationalist elements.

I DO think that young people should be in a sport long before they go to the gym. Sports have so much more to give than just fitness.

Dragan

Roper wrote: »

I DO think that young people should be in a sport long before they go to the gym. Sports have so much more to give than just fitness.

As does the gym. My Dad got me into lifting weights as a place to put my energy and my anger. I had played field sports for years. The gym definitely helped me to channel my efforts a lot better than team or even individual sports had up until that point.

It's horses for courses really. Some people will respond very well to the gym and branch off into sports like powerlifting/oly lifting and bodybuilding.

The gym has plenty more to offer than just fitness as well duder.

g'em

kevpants wrote: »

Wasn't some hack sniffing around here a few days ago looking for "real life" tales like this? I believ G'em ahd the thread locked before you could say "Silly season"

lol yup, and I was subsequently accused of censorship for locking it

DM-BM

I don't understand what every body is freaking out about here, body image, and the pressure to look good is a problem for some people, so what is wrong with writing about it?

Most people here are older than the people in that article and probably have no idea what it's like to be a teenager today, male or female.

I don't think that there is anything wrong with going to the gym in your teenage years, but to feel that you have to, so that you have a body that fits with someone elses view of acceptable, isn't exactly healthy.

@ g'em and kevpants, i really don't understand where you two are coming from on this, somebody came on here wanting to talk to people who felt pressured into going to the gym, whats wrong with that?
It's not like most people feel that way, but some probably do, every one here seems to get so defensive about it, why?

J.S. Pill

DM-BM wrote: »

Most people here are older than the people in that article and probably have no idea what it's like to be a teenager today, male or female.

I'd imagine it's pretty much like being a teenager was 10/15 years ago - just replace Nirvana with the Arctic Monkeys or whatever

DM-BM wrote: »

I don't understand what every body is freaking out about here, body image, and the pressure to look good is a problem for some people, so what is wrong with writing about it?

....@ g'em and kevpants, i really don't understand where you two are coming from on this, somebody came on here wanting to talk to people who felt pressured into going to the gym, whats wrong with that?
It's not like most people feel that way, but some probably do, every one here seems to get so defensive about it, why?

I don't think anyone is suggesting that writing about this subject is wrong per se but a lot of people do have a problem with the hackneyed way in which it's being approached. This is the sort sensationalist muck you'd expect to see in the Sunday Independent and not a serious and balanced discussion. Don't you find it a bit strange that physiological issues aren't even mentioned and that the 'see also' section is composed entirely of links to BBC features about steroids?

c0rk3r

DM-BM

J.S. Pill , ithink the world is a verydifferent place now, compared to what it was 10/15 years ago, every hting has to be bigger, better, faster, sexier all the time, so to say just replace bands from then with bands from today is very simplistic.
Kids are being sexualised earlier and earlier and i think it is having an effect. I know every generation of teenagers, always did and always will want to look good for the opposite sex, but i just think its getting a bit more extreme.

I don't really see the article as sensationalist, I don't think they actually said lifting weights is bad, did they? Ok they didn't mention the physcological issues, but how else would teenagers feel pressure to look a certain way. I didn't actually look at the "also see" section, anything i'm sayiing is based on the article itself.

With regard to balanced discussion, it seems that could be a problem, looking at the way people have posted on this thread, and on the thread that was locked , most posts seem to be VERY defensive, as if they are being accused of lifting for the wrong reason.

g'em

DM-BM wrote: »

I don't understand what every body is freaking out about here, body image, and the pressure to look good is a problem for some people, so what is wrong with writing about it?...

@ g'em and kevpants, i really don't understand where you two are coming from on this, somebody came on here wanting to talk to people who felt pressured into going to the gym, whats wrong with that?

J.S. Pill summed it up really well - it's not the core content of the article that I have a problem with, it's the sensationalism with which it's presented.

Body dysmorphia is a subject I take very seriously, because I see it in friends and fellow gym-buddies all the time. I think it's a damn shame that it isn't spoken about more, but articles like this only serve to create irrational fear of the gym for those that go to it, and ridicules the work of those who see it as a place to workout, hangout and vent out in a normal, healthy way.

This article does nothing to tackle the issue at hand but simple scorns the passion of kids who choose to go to the gym. It's unbalanced, emotive and lazy. Using a Men's Fitness survey as a sample base, I mean come on.

As for someone coming here to ask for opinions - again, lazy journalism, particulalry when such a blanket, emotive question is asked. I have no idea who the person is behind the username, who they write for or what their ultimate article goal is. If someone contacts the Moderators directly to let us know who they are and what we do we will appreciate it greatly, otherwise we have no choice but to be skeptical. You have no idea how much crap we have to clean up on the board that few people ever have to see! We have extremely good working realtionships with certain journalists who openly and widely use the fora here but don't abuse it, but when someone comes along with the sole purpose of using the posters to all but write their articles for them we have no choice but to direct them to the appropriate avenues (the Media Interaction forum for instance).

g'em

DM-BM wrote: »

With regard to balanced discussion, it seems that could be a problem, looking at the way people have posted on this thread, and on the thread that was locked , most posts seem to be VERY defensive, as if they are being accused of lifting for the wrong reason.

The thread wasn't locked for that reason - I would love for there to be more discussion about these issues - it was locked because boards.ie isn't here to write newspaper articles and there's a protocol to follow when a journalist is looking for information from posters i.e. there's give and take on both sides. That particular journo requested that people PM her anyway, so keeping the thread open wasn't necessary.

Hanley

DM-BM wrote: »

J.S. Pill , ithink the world is a verydifferent place now, compared to what it was 10/15 years ago, every hting has to be bigger, better, faster, sexier all the time, so to say just replace bands from then with bands from today is very simplistic.
Kids are being sexualised earlier and earlier and i think it is having an effect. I know every generation of teenagers, always did and always will want to look good for the opposite sex, but i just think its getting a bit more extreme.

I don't really see the article as sensationalist, I don't think they actually said lifting weights is bad, did they? Ok they didn't mention the physcological issues, but how else would teenagers feel pressure to look a certain way. I didn't actually look at the "also see" section, anything i'm sayiing is based on the article itself.

With regard to balanced discussion, it seems that could be a problem, looking at the way people have posted on this thread, and on the thread that was locked , most posts seem to be VERY defensive, as if they are being accused of lifting for the wrong reason.

Yeah... or maybe the problem is all of a sudden if you're in a gym you MUST have muscle dysmorphia. How many girls who go on diets have anorexia? Or are accused as such?? The tone of the article, and pretty much every other piece I've ever encountered on "bigorexia" is that if you're in a gym looking to get bigger, you have a psychological problem. THAT'S what p!sses me off.

brianthebard

Roper wrote: »

By now I'd say my thoughts on the matter are well documented on this forum, but I do happen to agree with much of the report, just not the sensationalist elements.

I DO think that young people should be in a sport long before they go to the gym. Sports have so much more to give than just fitness.

I hear lifting things is a sport now.

Hanley

brianthebard wrote: »

I hear lifting things is a sport now.

Yeah but it's not a real sport cos it isn't played on a field and you don't hit each other!!

brianthebard

Hanley wrote: »

Yeah but it's not a real sport cos it isn't played on a field and you don't hit each other!!

Aw man I've just come up with the next greatest sport-two opponents deadlift as much as they can and then hit each other with the weight like a gladiator comp! First one to not die wins!

hunter164

DM-BM wrote: »

I don't understand what every body is freaking out about here, body image, and the pressure to look good is a problem for some people, so what is wrong with writing about it?

Most people here are older than the people in that article and probably have no idea what it's like to be a teenager today, male or female.

I don't think that there is anything wrong with going to the gym in your teenage years, but to feel that you have to, so that you have a body that fits with someone elses view of acceptable, isn't exactly healthy.

I'm the same age as that chap there and now at the minute I'm not lifting weights because I simply haven't got the time. But I do eat healthy and do sport. I do it for myself ant not for the image really.

J.S. Pill

DM-BM wrote: »

I don't really see the article as sensationalist, I don't think they actually said lifting weights is bad, did they? Ok they didn't mention the physcological issues, but how else would teenagers feel pressure to look a certain way. I didn't actually look at the "also see" section, anything i'm sayiing is based on the article itself.

With regard to balanced discussion, it seems that could be a problem, looking at the way people have posted on this thread, and on the thread that was locked , most posts seem to be VERY defensive, as if they are being accused of lifting for the wrong reason.

I think you could really do with looking at these kind of articles with more of a critical eye. First of all, ask yourself what the article's implication, namely that there has been a significant & worrying increase in the number of teens taking up weight training in the UK, is based upon. That 87% of readers of a men's fitness magazine want to put on more muscle is hardly surprising and the fact that the magizine received a few hundred more letters than it did last year from teens looking to build muscle out of a population of 4 million 14-19 year old UK males certainly doesn't point to an explosive new craze.

Also, statements like "Everyone is growing up far too quickly" and "It seems like they are losing some of their innocence - boys should be boys running around the park with a football" tie into a narrative of the increasingly commercialises/sexualised/whatever-ised world that young people have to face - as you said, "everything has to be bigger, better, faster, sexier all the time". Like most of these kind of narratives, they are going to be based on some grain of truth but you have to remember that they form a staple of newspapers and news stories - why? because they are emotive topcis for parents who are going to be the major consumers of the news.

As g'em said, body dismorphia is a serious subject and this article does absolutely nothing to deal with the issue. I Hope I didn't drift too far off topic there...I don't mean to sound like a 1st year media studies student here but these are the kind of things you got to be alert to.

parasite

g'em wrote: »

I have no idea who the person is behind the username, who they write for or what their ultimate article goal is.

I'm pretty sure it's the person who wrote fitness related articles in the last two weeks for the Sunday Times, Gabrielle Monaghan

Mikel

DM-BM wrote: »

J.S. Pill , ithink the world is a verydifferent place now, compared to what it was 10/15 years ago, every hting has to be bigger, better, faster, sexier all the time, so to say just replace bands from then with bands from today is very simplistic

Remember the old days? Jumpers for goalposts!
er 10 years ago?

BrianD3

Well it is almost 15 years since I was in school and I definitely felt there was pressure to be a "jock" then. I was not one myself. If you weren't a jock you were a nobody, likely to be bullied, had little chance with girls who would flock to the well built/sporty guys or even worse older lads with cars, jobs and muscles :eek::) Looking back if I had been more informed when I was in school I would have been very keen to get into weight training to build myself up rather than being a skinny weakling who was no good at team sports. With the advent of the internet information on weight training is now just a click away so I wouldn't be surprised to hear that more 15 year olds are getting into it.

brianthebard

parasite wrote: »

I'm pretty sure it's the person who wrote fitness related articles in the last two weeks for the Sunday Times, Gabrielle Monaghan

What were they like?

Hanley

BrianD3 wrote: »

Well it is almost 15 years since I was in school and I definitely felt there was pressure to be a "jock" then. I was not one myself. If you weren't a jock you were a nobody, likely to be bullied, had little chance with girls who would flock to the well built/sporty guys or even worse older lads with cars, jobs and muscles :eek::) Looking back if I had been more informed when I was in school I would have been very keen to get into weight training to build myself up rather than being a skinny weakling who was no good at team sports. With the advent of the internet information on weight training is now just a click away so I wouldn't be surprised to hear that more 15 year olds are getting into it.

Yeah I don't think that much has changed tbh. I was kicked out of a class in school because I refused to play for the school team (the class the coach thought, it was only religion, but still!!).

The only difference now is that weight training isn't "established" so it's fair game for the cheap shots.

Roper

brianthebard wrote: »

I hear lifting things is a sport now.

% of young people who lift for sport out of a total of people who lift weights? <1% I'd say. Obviously I was speaking generally but if you'd like I could go into specifics. Since the guy in the article wasn't a powerlifter or an Olympic lifter or a Bodybuilder and was just lifting to look good, then I think the context was clear.

Dragan I'd quote you if I could find you post . I'd say you're in the vast minority. Team and individual sports, including weighlifting :rolleyes: offer an outlet for so many kids, teach them about healthy competitiveness, discipline and keeping in shape. I'm sure you got that from lifting alone but in my experience most kids need structure. Aside from all that, you'd want to be 15/16 to be involved whereas some sports start as young as 3.

I know I'm in the wrong forum for this and I'm bound to get slated, but just because getting big isn't as harmful for your health as getting small, it doesn't necessarily mean it's any healthier in the brainium. I'd find it very hard to think of a worse "activity" for a kid with confidence issues than bodybuilding TBH, potentially.

Hanley

Roper wrote: »

I'd find it very hard to think of a worse "activity" for a kid with confidence issues than bodybuilding TBH, potentially.

I can only speak for myself, but I've found the polar opposite to be true. I not only carry myself a lot better now than I did when I was younger, but I'm a lot more self assured. That being said I didn't get into this all to feel better about myself, so I dunno if I'm a good sample to use.

Lets face it, you're not gonna have 15/16 year olds on stage at a bodybuilding comp any time soon, so it's not like they're looking at symmetry, balance and being mega lean/dry. I would guess that most of them do it to get a bit bigger and maybe a bit leaner. If it's a pass time which takes up <10 hours of their week I honestly don't see the problem. Especially if they're training with friends (as most young people seem to do).

I'd rather see them doing that than hanging out on street corners drinking and smoking.

When I was 17 or 18 I'd just started training but I was still training for soccer and GAA 3-4x a week and playing at least one match a week too. And then during the summer/weekends I'd go out before or after training and hang around with my friends and play football matches til it got too dark to see. It wasn't unusual for one or two of us to head to the gym together after either....

parasite

brianthebard wrote: »

What were they like?

here they are
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/article4548020.ece
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/article4596896.ece

Roper

I don't think you see the point. If a kid goes to the gym to be healthier and look better then fine. But the point about dysmorphia is that it's never enough to get big, there's always something else.

There's an interesting pictorial thing about GI Joe (that's the American version of Action Man) and how his physique has changed over the years. It's about what we expect from young men and what they have to live up to. Spots, girls and hair in funny places is hard enough without having to think you should have a six pack and chesticles too. In a country with such massive suicide rates among young men, I don't think we can afford to be so blasé.

Hanley

Roper wrote: »

I don't think you see the point. If a kid goes to the gym to be healthier and look better then fine. But the point about dysmorphia is that it's never enough to get big, there's always something else.

There's an interesting pictorial thing about GI Joe (that's the American version of Action Man) and how his physique has changed over the years. It's about what we expect from young men and what they have to live up to. Spots, girls and hair in funny places is hard enough without having to think you should have a six pack and chesticles too. In a country with such massive suicide rates among young men, I don't think we can afford to be so blasé.

Seriously now tho, how many young people in Ireland have "bigorexia" compared to more common things like anorexia, bulimia etc... Getting to that stage is pretty fcuking extreme like. It's MUCH further down the self awareness/be more beautiful/impress the opposite sex etc feelings that pretty much every single child has growing up.

I know you don't like weight training for kids, but c'mon, how much of a risk it REALLY?? The way the article put it forward was that every single kid who joined a gym was probably going down that road.

If you've joined a gym (regardless of age) and read mens health then you're probably at the more extreme/dedicated end of the spectrum so of course the results of any survey will be skewed. I'd much rather see a proper sample taken from schools around the country (rugby, GAA, CBS, community, national, bogger etc) to get an accurate idea of how "obssessed" these kids are. And even at that, we all know young people exaggerate, so while they might say they're on a muscle at all cost quest, they're probably just hitting the gyms for some curls and benches 2-3x a week and eating lots of chocolate.

I've been hanging out in gyms for the past 4/5 years or so and I can honestly say I've never come across someone my own age or younger who have become so obessed with their appearance that it's had a detrimental effect on their life. However I have met LOTS of guys interested in, and training for sport who would fit that particular bill....

ali.c

Roper wrote:

I'd find it very hard to think of a worse "activity" for a kid with confidence issues than bodybuilding TBH, potentially.

Definitely agree with you on this one, the problem with bodybuilding it is all based on appearance

Roper wrote: »

I don't think you see the point. If a kid goes to the gym to be healthier and look better then fine. But the point about dysmorphia is that it's never enough to get big, there's always something else.

There's an interesting pictorial thing about GI Joe (that's the American version of Action Man) and how his physique has changed over the years. It's about what we expect from young men and what they have to live up to. Spots, girls and hair in funny places is hard enough without having to think you should have a six pack and chesticles too. In a country with such massive suicide rates among young men, I don't think we can afford to be so blasé.

I think the suicide rates are symptomatic of a range of issues in our society, the pressure to have a certain body type or look a certain way imho is certainly not the whole problem. Is it really any different to barbie? I mean the doll is ridiculously un-proportional and it is not possible to have that body shape. I think it is natural for teenagers to try to fit in with their peers and with how we as society paint attractive people. Perhaps the issue is with how we as society define attractive healthy etc and how we communicate this to children?

Hanley

ali.c wrote: »

Definitely agree with you on this one, the problem with bodybuilding it is all based on appearance

Getting on stage, and building muscle to impress the chicks is a totally different ball game.

I would agree that most competiting BB's probably have body dsymorphia on some level, since their sport depends on it (much like GAA players might be obsessed about fitness) but I don't think it's a critical issue when it comes to their health.

Mikel

Roper wrote: »

I'd find it very hard to think of a worse "activity" for a kid with confidence issues than bodybuilding TBH, potentially.

only anecdotal, but I did read Lou Ferrigno got into lifting weights in his bedroom because he was the little skinny kid with no confidence. he said it helped him. A small sample so I don't know if it backs you up or contradicts you.
I think both Roper and Hanley have a point, it may be that unconfident boys feel pressured into training too much, but I think weight training would be a small manifestation of that problem. It would most likely come out in other more drastic ways too, drink drugs etc.
Maybe the exercise would alleviate the problem in a way.
Also, acute injury aside, just how much damage could a 15y old boy do to himself curling or benching too often?
Now that I think of it, what about bodyweight training? What about gymnastics?
Those kids train a lot don't they?
I hear what you're saying about team sports, but they can be dysfunctional in their own way.

Dolls and self image is an interesting one, I did read that if women were made in the proportions of a barbie doll they wouldn't be able to stay upright.

Mikel

ali.c wrote: »

I think the suicide rates are symptomatic of a range of issues in our society, the pressure to have a certain body type or look a certain way imho is certainly not the whole problem. Is it really any different to barbie? I mean the doll is ridiculously un-proportional and it is not possible to have that body shape

Whoops, didn't see that

kevpants

I really don't think there's an issue here. Body dysmorphia can be as present in adults as kids, it's part of the OCD spectrum and it's not something you can catch by reading mens health or watching Pumping Iron.

If the issue is that these kids may have body dysmorphia the problme isn't the weights they are a symptom. And by no means the most harmful one.

I'd say the suicidal thoughts at being an out of proportion freak no matter if their dysmorphia relates to thinking they have one eye bigger than the other or that they are too skinny, are what should concern parents.

This particular example is merely a talentless reporter trying to make a name by latching on to a subject that in the past has been the target of so much urban myth (big muscles crushing your heart, body builders always end up in wheelchairs in their 50's) and using it to create a shock story.

celestial

amazingemmet wrote: »

Corrected

Originally Posted by kevpants
Studies of have proven that 98% of gym-goers will eventually die!


Are Arnie and Chuck Norris the 2% ?

Roper

I wasn't trying to suggest that dysmorphia was the reason young men choose suicide. I was pointing out that the pressure on young men is increasing to meet required standards of masculinity, especially when there are so few things that a man can do to be a man these days without being called an ape.

The pressure to be bigger is just one of those, and probably the least important as it's got to do with appearance. Ah this is all a greater topic than this thread is worth to be honest especially since I'm unlikely to convince anyone on this forum!

Money Shot

Roper wrote: »

I wasn't trying to suggest that dysmorphia was the reason young men choose suicide. I was pointing out that the pressure on young men is increasing to meet required standards of masculinity, especially when there are so few things that a man can do to be a man these days without being called an ape.

The pressure to be bigger is just one of those, and probably the least important as it's got to do with appearance. Ah this is all a greater topic than this thread is worth to be honest especially since I'm unlikely to convince anyone on this forum!

I think Roper makes some good points, and he is being non-sensationalist. In my opinion, there is obviously a growing problem that shouldn't be simply dismissed because it doesn't effect you. All you have to do is look at the endless threads from young kids on this forum looking for advice to see there is a problem. Fifteen year olds looking for advice on creatine and any other supplements to help them get big quick. They have little or no interest in working out or diet - they just want to know how to be big, and quickly.
There is too much pressure to grow up too quick. There is pressure from everywhere now, celebrity this and that, stupid magazines, every actor getting buff for every film whether it's really required or not. I think it's quite sad the way society has gone, and saddest of all is what today's kids seem to stress about all the time. Kids can't even enjoy their first holiday anymore because they are afraid they won't look the way they want at the beach. Things have changed a lot since the Celtic Tiger, and Roper's points make complete sense to me.

Macha

Agree with you there Money Shot. Sadly this is equality of the sexes of the bad kind. Men are slowly but surely being subjected to the same pressures to achieve an often-unattainable body ideal that women have felt since..god..the time of the corsets??

Kids just need to be kids.

kevpants

Money Shot wrote: »

I think Roper makes some good points, and he is being non-sensationalist. In my opinion, there is obviously a growing problem that shouldn't be simply dismissed because it doesn't effect you. All you have to do is look at the endless threads from young kids on this forum looking for advice to see there is a problem. Fifteen year olds looking for advice on creatine and any other supplements to help them get big quick. They have little or no interest in working out or diet - they just want to know how to be big, and quickly.
There is too much pressure to grow up too quick. There is pressure from everywhere now, celebrity this and that, stupid magazines, every actor getting buff for every film whether it's really required or not. I think it's quite sad the way society has gone, and saddest of all is what today's kids seem to stress about all the time. Kids can't even enjoy their first holiday anymore because they are afraid they won't look the way they want at the beach. Things have changed a lot since the Celtic Tiger, and Roper's points make complete sense to me.

1).Teenage boys want muscles cos they want girls to look at them. FULL STOP.
2).Teenage boys want advice on creatine and supplements because teenage boys are idiots.

Both of the above points are true and always will be true. Young lads aren't responding to what Heat magazine says they should look like. The see the girls in their class swooning over the muscley celebrities and think thats the key to getting their spotty asses some action.

They want advice on supplements because they want to do it the easy way.

Teenage boys are lazy hornbags....shocking revelation.

I really think the biproduct of this Celtic Tiger is more the ability to sensationalise than anything else.

I mean I was 7 or 8 when I saw Commando. I though Arnie was the coolest guy ever and I wanted to be him. My dad wanted to be Auddie Murphy (his favourite western actor). Everyone has idols what's the big deal?

celestial

kevpants wrote: »

1).Teenage boys want muscles cos they want girls to look at them. FULL STOP.
2).Teenage boys want advice on creatine and supplements because teenage boys are idiots.

Both of the above points are true and always will be true. Young lads aren't responding to what Heat magazine says they should look like. The see the girls in their class swooning over the muscley celebrities and think thats the key to getting their spotty asses some action.

They want advice on supplements because they want to do it the easy way.

Teenage boys are lazy hornbags....shocking revelation.

I really think the biproduct of this Celtic Tiger is more the ability to sensationalise than anything else.

I mean I was 7 or 8 when I saw Commando. I though Arnie was the coolest guy ever and I wanted to be him. My dad wanted to be Auddie Murphy (his favourite western actor). Everyone has idols what's the big deal?

Thank you!!

Seriously like lads. Teenage boys want to look a bit muscular so girls will admire them?? Do you know what that is? Celtic Tiger pressure my arse. It's hard-wiring!!! Shock-horror!!!

Complete media sensationalism BS.

Roper

kevpants wrote: »

1).Teenage boys want muscles cos they want girls to look at them. FULL STOP.
2).Teenage boys want advice on creatine and supplements because teenage boys are idiots.

Both of the above points are true and always will be true. Young lads aren't responding to what Heat magazine says they should look like. The see the girls in their class swooning over the muscley celebrities and think thats the key to getting their spotty asses some action.

Well aren't we the oversimplifier? You might be referring to the average kid there but average doesn't describe many kids.

If you think that girls are the root cause of all problems in young men then I think you need to read some books, or maybe talk to some kids. There are lots of other things besides getting some action from Tiffany who sits in front of him that effect a kid. The point about dysmorphia isn't that the person wants to be big or skinny, it's that they lack control in other areas of their lives and they believe that their appearance is the one element they can control, and therefore a sort of solution by proxy to the rest of their problems, which, of course, it can't be.

Or, continue to think that because you're a healthy bloke with none of those issues, that these lads just need to man up and get themselves some muscles and it will be alright.

Macha

How is this so different from a girl who drastically cuts down on her eating (apart from the fact that this gym-obsession is slightly less damaging to your health)? Why are so many wrong things just explained away as "boys will be boys" or "men will be men"? If it were a girl involved in such extreme behaviour, everyone would rightly be jumping up & down.

I like the way the kid even mentions 'control' in the interview.

kevpants

Roper wrote: »

Well aren't we the oversimplifier? You might be referring to the average kid there but average doesn't describe many kids.

If you think that girls are the root cause of all problems in young men then I think you need to read some books, or maybe talk to some kids. There are lots of other things besides getting some action from Tiffany who sits in front of him that effect a kid. The point about dysmorphia isn't that the person wants to be big or skinny, it's that they lack control in other areas of their lives and they believe that their appearance is the one element they can control, and therefore a sort of solution by proxy to the rest of their problems, which, of course, it can't be.

Or, continue to think that because you're a healthy bloke with none of those issues, that these lads just need to man up and get themselves some muscles and it will be alright.

That's because I'm oversimple

I think we got crossed wires. I wasn't saying young males high instance of suicide etc are down to girls. I was saying the weight training, creatine etc was down to girls.

I think you made the link between this weight training article and young males commiting suicide. You also mentioned dysmorphia again, I think the argument is swaying away from what it started as.

I don't think young men looking to get "ripped" has anything to do with dysmorphia. I really don't.

I sound like and argumentative prick now but I actually agree with you on mens role in society being eroded and the link to ever increasing suicides, I just don't think this is part of that. Do you get what I mean?

Dragan

Roper wrote: »

I wasn't trying to suggest that dysmorphia was the reason young men choose suicide. I was pointing out that the pressure on young men is increasing to meet required standards of masculinity, especially when there are so few things that a man can do to be a man these days without being called an ape.

The pressure to be bigger is just one of those, and probably the least important as it's got to do with appearance. Ah this is all a greater topic than this thread is worth to be honest especially since I'm unlikely to convince anyone on this forum!

Roper, i agree with pretty much every point you have made but i would ask you not to say things like the last sentence. Don't assume that everyone here sings from the same hymn sheet, we all have different goals and aspirations and very occassionally you can make a point that seems to infer ours are somehow less that other peoples.

Not saying that is how it is meant, just that is how it sometimes comes across is all.

Now then, for me i think the majority of kids are pretty mentally and emotionally healthy. I think we freak out a bit too much nowadays when kids show a massive interest in one think. I went through various obsessions when i was a kid, and right up till i was about 18 or so. Nobody called them unhealthy, or told me i had some kind of issue.

I just wanted to do stuff and try my hand at things. The kids who train down my gym never strike me as being overly addicted to the idea of getting big. Most of them train for sports, spend time on the field during the week as well as in the weights room.

As for whether team sports would be a better outlet, all i remember from my team sport days ( predomiantly GAA ) was enourmous pressure from people to win. Teachers, trainers, the locals....they all had a vested interest in the success of their kids in the schools league.

In fact i could place the two most heart breaking moments of my "sporting life" down to things that happened when i was in PRIMARY school.

So, while i agree that team sports are a fantastic avenue for kids to go down i don't think it's fair to look at them as being all rosey and lovely to be honest.

Each and every path a kid chooses to take will be full or risk and heartbreak at the end of the day. They will lose games, miss lifts, fail exams, deal with all kinds of hormonal issues from a day to day, they will have to develop into adults in a sometimes uncaring world.

Personally, i have found kids to be far better equipped for the lives people try and protect them from than we expect.

Kids are robust creatures, probably far more so than adults imo.

Roper

kevpants wrote: »

That's because I'm oversimple

I think we got crossed wires. I wasn't saying young males high instance of suicide etc are down to girls. I was saying the weight training, creatine etc was down to girls.

I think you made the link between this weight training article and young males commiting suicide. You also mentioned dysmorphia again, I think the argument is swaying away from what it started as.

I don't think young men looking to get "ripped" has anything to do with dysmorphia. I really don't.

I sound like and argumentative prick now but I actually agree with you on mens role in society being eroded and the link to ever increasing suicides, I just don't think this is part of that. Do you get what I mean?

I didn't cross wires at all. Read my post again and you'll see that my inference isn't that suicide is caused by dysmorphia, but that as a country with such a high suicide rate among young men, that we can't afford to not take something like dysmorphia seriously.

What we're talking about here is pressure to be and look a certain way. And it's increasing over time. My Da might have wanted to look like Cary Grant, but all he had to do was grease his hair and buy a sharp suit, I think I wanted to be Face out of the A-Team at one stage and got my ma to buy me this fake leather jacket, but if my hero was a wrestler today then I'd have to get her to buy me some roids and some fake tan.

Dragan

Roper wrote: »

but if my hero was a wrestler today then I'd have to get her to buy me some roids and some fake tan.

The same could be said about any of the thousands and thousands of top end athletes who have amazing physiques out there. Hell, the Olympics is a shining example of people proudly displaying the types of bodies most of us would kill for.

Everything has an impact, sometimes a negative one. We cannot simply focus on the ones we personally do not like.

brianthebard

Roper wrote: »

I didn't cross wires at all. Read my post again and you'll see that my inference isn't that suicide is caused by dysmorphia, but that as a country with such a high suicide rate among young men, that we can't afford to not take something like dysmorphia seriously.

What we're talking about here is pressure to be and look a certain way. And it's increasing over time. My Da might have wanted to look like Cary Grant, but all he had to do was grease his hair and buy a sharp suit, I think I wanted to be Face out of the A-Team at one stage and got my ma to buy me this fake leather jacket, but if my hero was a wrestler today then I'd have to get her to buy me some roids and some fake tan.

Ok firstly what in the article suggested that the young fella being interviewed had dysmorphia? Was it where he said "I don't feel right until I've done 100 reps on the bench in the morning, then eat 5 plain chicken fillets"? Cause I must have missed that.

Secondly, can you first provide some stats on dysmorphia that back up your argument? I know that the figures for anorexia are tiny in proportion to the amount of coverage it gets in the media, and the same thing is happening here imo.

Thirdly, if you are going to throw around wild statements like dysmorphia is leading to suicide in Ireland, can you also show that to be true? Much appreciated.



Just to add, fourthly, to the people who talk about modern society and the pressures put on people these days to look a certain way, where do you think the Grecian ideal came from? This isn't a societal issue of modern times. This is an old story rehashed every few years.