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Who is historys greatest general/military leader?
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23-08-2008 5:03pm#1
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Of course I've heard of Gallipoli but that was a long time before WWll and the Cold War and the man who never made mistake never made anything! Would you rather have had Britain surrender to the Nazis as some of the spineless jellyfish in the British Govt. of the time wished ?
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The Yanks were late for both World Wars and if it wasn't for the 'Wicked Brits' we would be living under Nazi or Soviet domination today! With the way the EU is going it is difficult to see who won the war and perhaps Hitler had the wrong idea - he should have bought Western Europe instead of invading it.:):) 0
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Judgement Day wrote: »The Yanks were late for both World Wars and if it wasn't for the 'Wicked Brits' we would be living under Nazi or Soviet domination today! With the way the EU is going it is difficult to see who won the war and perhaps Hitler had the wrong idea - he should have bought Western Europe instead of invading it.:):)
Reminds me of the old "Not the 9 o'clock news" item with Griff Rhys Jones:
"Having been late for the first two world wars, the Americans have said that they will be on time for the next one" (quote as near as dammit)0 -
The brits didn't stop a Soviet take over of all of Europe, it was the Americans and undoubtedly their procession of the Atomic bomb that would have been a very large deterrent for uncle Joe Stalin and co. Without the Americans, britain couldn't hardly put their big toe on the continent never mind invade Normandy, defeat Germany and scare off the Soviets. Get real for God's sake.Judgement Day wrote: »The Yanks were late for both World Wars and if it wasn't for the 'Wicked Brits' we would be living under Nazi or Soviet domination today! With the way the EU is going it is difficult to see who won the war and perhaps Hitler had the wrong idea - he should have bought Western Europe instead of invading it.:):)
Yes, because if George Bush has his way they'll be starting it.Reminds me of the old "Not the 9 o'clock news" item with Griff Rhys Jones:
"Having been late for the first two world wars, the Americans have said that they will be on time for the next one" (quote as near as dammit)0 -
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Yes Giap should be considered, outstanding General. BTW, his own personal favourite was old ' Boney himself, Napoleon and my own. He won 40 battles, many of them against much greater odds and is still only remembered for Waterloo ??.Giap. The greatest in my opinion.
The Spainards in the so called " combined French/Spanish fleet " were in fact conscripts and as exteremely reluctant to fight for the occupying force as conscripts can get, hence lessening Nelson's victory. Nobody summed it up better than Napoleon himself on the issue of conscripts when he said after inspecting them before a battle - " I don't know who should be more afraid, me or the enemy"Judgement Day wrote: »
Admiral Horatio Nelson who destroyed the combined French/Spanish fleet at the Battle of Trafalgar in 1805.. 0 -
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McArmalite wrote: »The Spainards in the so called " combined French/Spanish fleet " were in fact conscripts and as exteremely reluctant to fight for the occupying force as conscripts can get, hence lessening Nelson's victory. Nobody summed it up better than Napoleon himself on the issue of conscripts when he said after inspecting them before a battle - " I don't know who should be more afraid, me or the enemy".
Obviously being English he would never get any praise from you. Strange that you like Napoleon yet you despise empires, double standards?
it was a great victory, as was the Battle of the Nile
Tactically he was very astute, that makes him a great Admiral in my book.0 -
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McArmalite wrote: »
The Spainards in the so called " combined French/Spanish fleet " were in fact conscripts and as exteremely reluctant to fight for the occupying force as conscripts can get, hence lessening Nelson's victory. Nobody summed it up better than Napoleon himself on the issue of conscripts when he said after inspecting them before a battle - " I don't know who should be more afraid, me or the enemy".
Well, to be fair, most of the ordinary seamen in the British navy were conscripts who had been press-ganged into service. Many of them were from other nationalities as well, either taken prisoner or maybe even enslaved.
I mean, who in their right mind would volunteer for a life of seasickness, scurvy and buggery interspersed with regular whippings and other sublime punishments such as keelhauling and being tied to the top of a mast along with the constant fear of death or mutilation in battle?
Not even the Brits are that stupid.
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McArmalite wrote: »Yes Giap should be considered, outstanding General. BTW, his own personal favourite was old ' Boney himself, Napoleon and my own. He won 40 battles, many of them against much greater odds and is still only remembered for Waterloo ??.
The Spainards in the so called " combined French/Spanish fleet " were in fact conscripts and as exteremely reluctant to fight for the occupying force as conscripts can get, hence lessening Nelson's victory. Nobody summed it up better than Napoleon himself on the issue of conscripts when he said after inspecting them before a battle - " I don't know who should be more afraid, me or the enemy".
You have so many chips on your shoulder about the 800 years of oppression that it is difficult to deal with your comments but on the subject of the Falklands - How was that terrorism by the British? A foreign facist dicatator invaded British soverign territory (lived in only by willing British subjects no hard-done natives) and his forces were kicked out and his appalling regime collapsed!
I am in love again so I will have less time to deal with your outbursts but you really should get back on the medication.:) 0 -
Yeah, and this coming from the fella who would come on and hijack any reasonable discussion that had the mildest and justifiable criticism of britian's conduct in Ireland down the centuries, draggin it into a cul de sac of the IRA did this, the IRA did that, the IRA did the other etc. If their's anyone around here who can take credit for the creation of the persona of McArmalite, you can congratulate yourself FredFratton Fred wrote: » Obviously being English he would never get any praise from you. Strange that you like Napoleon yet you despise empires, double standards?
it was a great victory, as was the Battle of the Nile
Tactically he was very astute, that makes him a great Admiral in my book.
As for Napoleon and the empire, he hijacked the Revoulotion for his own vanity, the people of France had no other choice but to follow such a strong military leader as all the powers of Europe were consipiring to defeat France. Indeed in his first victory he defeated british and Spainish forces when they tried to invade Toulon, showing personal bravery been wounded in the leg during the fighting. I only mentioned him due to his military abilities, not his personal egomania.
Fair enough Snickers, fair enough,Snickers Man wrote: »Well, to be fair, most of the ordinary seamen in the British navy were conscripts who had been press-ganged into service. Many of them were from other nationalities as well, either taken prisoner or maybe even enslaved.
I mean, who in their right mind would volunteer for a life of seasickness, scurvy and buggery interspersed with regular whippings and other sublime punishments such as keelhauling and being tied to the top of a mast along with the constant fear of death or mutilation in battle?
Not even the Brits are that stupid.. Very gald you mentioned Drake and Rathlin Island, terrible cruel murders. I have heard about this before but it's rearly mentioned, you certainly wouldn't hear it mentioned on TV programmes etc about the great swash buckling 'hero'.
It has indeed often occured to me about serving in the navy for the 'glory of the empire ' etc as the most horrible, cruel life possible " a life of seasickness, scurvy and buggery interspersed with regular whippings and other sublime punishments such as keelhauling and being tied to the top of a mast along with the constant fear of death or mutilation in battle ". Indeed, it was probably a life worse than slavery on a plantation, all for the alleged glory of King and Country that made the greatness of the empire etc as some would like to deceive nowadays.
Getting a bit off subject, but when you think about the words of songs like Rule britannia - britons never, never, never shall be slaves - the greatest irony of all is that the average brition was as much a slave in the empire as anyone else.0 -
Judgement Day wrote: »You have so many chips on your shoulder about the 800 years of oppression that it is difficult to deal with your comments but on the subject of the Falklands - How was that terrorism by the British? A foreign facist dicatator invaded British soverign territory (lived in only by willing British subjects no hard-done natives) and his forces were kicked out and his appalling regime collapsed!
I am in love again so I will have less time to deal with your outbursts but you really should get back on the medication.:)
Showing solidarity with the good people of Argentina. BTW, not biting on your post no. 6. It's too obvious your trying to get the rise of the Provos :rolleyes:
Back to the orginal topic. Sun Tzu, author of the Art of War. Extraordinary military book that has relevance even up tot today.0 -
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McArmalite wrote: »Yeah, and this coming from the fella who would come on and hijack any reasonable discussion that had the mildest and justifiable criticism of britian's conduct in Ireland down the centuries, draggin it into a cul de sac of the IRA did this, the IRA did that, the IRA did the other etc. If their's anyone around here who can take credit for the creation of the persona of McArmalite, you can congratulate yourself Fred
As for Napoleon and the empire, he hijacked the Revoulotion for his own vanity, the people of France had no other choice but to follow such a strong military leader as all the powers of Europe were consipiring to defeat France. Indeed in his first victory he defeated british and Spainish forces when they tried to invade Toulon, showing personal bravery been wounded in the leg during the fighting. I only mentioned him due to his military abilities, not his personal egomania.
Fair enough Snickers, fair enough,. Very gald you mentioned Drake and Rathlin Island, terrible cruel murders. I have heard about this before but it's rearly mentioned, you certainly wouldn't hear it mentioned on TV programmes etc about the great swash buckling 'hero'.
It has indeed often occured to me about serving in the navy for the 'glory of the empire ' etc as the most horrible, cruel life possible " a life of seasickness, scurvy and buggery interspersed with regular whippings and other sublime punishments such as keelhauling and being tied to the top of a mast along with the constant fear of death or mutilation in battle ". Indeed, it was probably a life worse than slavery on a plantation, all for the alleged glory of King and Country that made the greatness of the empire etc as some would like to deceive nowadays.
Getting a bit off subject, but when you think about the words of songs like Rule britannia - britons never, never, never shall be slaves - the greatest irony of all is that the average brition was as much a slave in the empire as anyone else.
I liked the quote Snickersman used "Is that a chip on your shoulder or an entire Intel factory"0 -
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Fratton Fred wrote: »Despite the fact that you more than likely meant this as yet another pathetic snipe at Britain, this is probably one of the most realistic posts you have made on these boards.
As much as the Irish like to go on about being victimised and abused, they were no more abused than any other working class (If the term existed back in the day) catholic revolutionaries in the empire.
It was revolution the empire feared. they were more than capable of fighting their enemies, such as the French, Spanish etc, but revolt from within was a huge threat.
When you realise that and accept that it was a class thing and had very little to do with nationality (After all, the Scots were supposedly down trodden as well, but did more then their fair share in upholding the "Values" of the empire) then you may be able to actually engage in a decent, civilied conversation, but, alas, I fear you will not be able to remove the spec from your own eye in order to do that.
Try it, have a go at looking at the British empire from the eyes of someone who has not been brought up on on Irish republican diet. You may actually see a whole new dawn.
€50 says you can't though.;)
Was that supposed to be an apology ? 0 -
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Why in the name of christ does every ****ing thread descend into McArmalite and co vs Fratton Fred? *yawn*They should settle this once and for all, with bananas behind the cathedral at dawn. :pac:Ok, wow, this has been great. I haven't had to do any moderating on this forum in like 3 months. The British Empire thread worked great I thought.
From now on this thread will take the following structure:
Any military general/leader who isn't related to the British empire can be discussed in here. Personally, I'm always amazingly impressed with Alexander the great.
Anything that is related to the British empire goes into the British Empire thread.
Anyone who decides to ignore this rules will be swiftly dealt with.:D:D Ok lads, even I'm getting fed up of me and Fred's bitchy ping pong matches 0 -
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