Beijing 2008 - disaster!

Superdub2

Does anybody else think that Beijing 2008 has been a complete disaster for irish athletics with complete non performances from absolutely all our athletes bar paul hession. Eileen o Keefe was possibly carrying an injury but the rest i reckon were ****e! Especially Dervla o Rourke and that girl in the 400's michelle carey (i think thats her name)who was absolutely rubbish!

most of them let their country down for me!

ZiggyStardust

Eh Alistair Cragg, Rob Heffernan, Olive Loghnane, great performances by these athletes. Roisin McGettigan also made the final. Get up off your armchair you're talking ****e.

Superdub2 wrote: »

and that girl in the 400's michelle carey (i think thats her name)

And if you're not sure what her name is, you haven't a clue of athletics.

VW08

I thought Dervla o Rourke had an injury too.

projectmayhem

ZiggyStardust wrote: »

Eh Alistair Cragg, Rob Heffernan, Olive Loghnane, great performances by these athletes. Roisin McGettigan also made the final. Get up off your armchair you're talking ****e.



And if you're not sure what her name is, you haven't a clue of athletics.

While I wouldn't be as militant/staunch in my disapproval for the Irish Olympic team, I wouldn't exactly be proud to be Irish right now. While it's not over just yet, we've had a fairly rough experience yet again. There has been a fair bit of money put into the Irish Olympic Council and we haven't yielded any real results.

I know you're investing in people and sport takes time etc., but the main point is to install some pride in the country, and the Council hasn't done that... at all.

thirtyfoot

Superdub2 wrote: »

Does anybody else think that Beijing 2008 has been a complete disaster for irish athletics with complete non performances from absolutely all our athletes bar paul hession. Eileen o Keefe was possibly carrying an injury but the rest i reckon were ****e! Especially Dervla o Rourke and that girl in the 400's michelle carey (i think thats her name)who was absolutely rubbish!

most of them let their country down for me!

I knew this would come. Track is very good in that its statistical and you can gauge everything in black and white a lot of the time. There was no expectation of a medal. Take into account in Athens and Sydney we got 1 finalist, we have 4 so far. The general media really don't know the sport and thats not their fault as its a minority sport but kind of unique in that it attracts so much attention in the Olympics as its the main event. Below are our track and field athletes and how they ranked on the startlists and then how they finished. On the 13 who have competed so far, 10 have equalled or finished higher than their ranking. 3 have underperformed and 1 of these was injured in the runup to the games with an adductor longus injury which if you are a hurdler is kind of important!!! Anyway, here it is and let me know what you think Superdub. I'd be interested to know what you think.

Over Performed
Rob Heffernan - Ranked 9th, finished 8th.
Joanne Cuddihy - Ranked 38th, finished 34th
Pauline Curley - Ranked 65th, finished 63rd
Eileen O' Keeffe - Ranked 17th, finished 17th
Paul Hession - Ranked 16th, finished 10th
Alistair Cragg - Ranked 21st, finished 15th or higher
Tom Chamney - Ranked 50th, finished 29th
Fionnuala Britton - Ranked 43rd, finished 27th
Roisin McGettigan - Ranked 16th, finished 14th
Olive Loughnane - Ranked 9th, finished 7th


Under Performed
Michelle Carey - Ranked 24th, finished 25th
Derval O' Rourke - Ranked 24th, finished 28th
David Gillick - Ranked 15th, finished 30th

3 still to come, Costin, Griffin, Fagan.

Redgraffle

F**kin hell why do we have to read these junk posts every time an Olympics comes around...

Ron Heffernan, Olive Loughnane, Paul Hession, Alister Cragg, Roisin McGettigan all performed brilliantly.

The only athletes that underperformed for me were Derval O'Rourke (Bad luck all year with injuries), Eileen O'Keeffe (probably the unluckiest considering she was in unbelievable form until injuring her knee) and David Gillick (1st time he has let Ireland down - still great progress this season).

Michelle Carey came here with the B standard and wasn't in great form pre Olympics so I think it was unlikely she would progress - still gave it her all.

Pauline Curley deserved her place here even though we all knew she would finish down the field - she has given so much to Irish athletics over the years and I was personally delighted to see her here (how emotional was she at the finish - great to see....)

Tom Chamney has had a really tough year chasing the 800m qualifing and did well to get here. I think the 800m is the most cut throat event out there and for 700m he ran brilliantly but unfortunately faded - take a look at the names (and times) of some of the other guys in that race that didn't make it.... He had the slowest time of that heat before the race yet finished ahead of 2 very serious athletes...

We'd all love medals in the Olympics but lets applaud those that performed well and SUPPORT those that fell short. It's this type of attitude that will drive people away from athletics and we will be back to having nobody capable of coming out of an Olympic heat....

Dodge

Redgraffle wrote: »

F**kin hell why do we have to read these junk posts every time an Olympics comes around...

+1

can we lock this thread?

thirtyfoot

Redgraffle wrote: »

The only athletes that underperformed for me were Derval O'Rourke (Bad luck all year with injuries), Eileen O'Keeffe (probably the unluckiest considering she was in unbelievable form until injuring her knee) and David Gillick (1st time he has let Ireland down - still great progress this season).

I agree.

Eileen was ranked 17th and finised 17th even though she could barely walk 4 weeks ago but the OP won't know that.
Derv underperformed by 4 places - 24th vs 28th, she won't be happy and if she was fully fit could have challenged for a final, again the OP won't be aware of the injuries.
Gillick did underperform badly, but to say he let down his country is a bit harsh and if you said it to his face he might agree for a second but then you would get a size 10 in the balls for your troubles.
Carey underperformed by one place - 24th vs 25th.

Overall we are at 77% on the overperformance stakes (and that was with 3 potential finalist crippled with injury - Cuddihy, O' Keeffe, O' Rourke). Not bad, imagine what they would do if they had some pride.

Superdub2

ZiggyStardust wrote: »

Eh Alistair Cragg, Rob Heffernan, Olive Loghnane, great performances by these athletes. Roisin McGettigan also made the final. Get up off your armchair you're talking ****e.



And if you're not sure what her name is, you haven't a clue of athletics.

Well i was correct about her name wasnt i?? and alistair cragg didnt get out of the heat... what a fantastic performance..... maybe the irish olympic council should concentrate all their financial resources into boxing instead of ploughing money into sports for which we have no talent, i.e. athletics, and elitist sports that very few common irish men or women could ever hope to compete in and as such couldnt gve a rats ass about, i.e. sailing, rowing etc

Dodge

Superdub2 wrote: »

Well i was correct about her name wasnt i?? and alistair cragg didnt get out of the heat...

He did.

Also please list the amount of funding form the OCI to each sport so we can compare.

dedon

Superdub2 wrote: »

Does anybody else think that Beijing 2008 has been a complete disaster for irish athletics with complete non performances from absolutely all our athletes bar paul hession. Eileen o Keefe was possibly carrying an injury but the rest i reckon were ****e! Especially Dervla o Rourke and that girl in the 400's michelle carey (i think thats her name)who was absolutely rubbish!

most of them let their country down for me!

You are talking rubbish. I bet you are a big GAA head who knows nothing about athletics

thirtyfoot

dedon wrote: »

You are talking rubbish. I bet you are a big GAA head who knows nothing about athletics

You could be right and the in the OP's style I'll make a few un-educated assumption and agree with you that he is a GAA head and a Dub at that.

Underperform
Dublin Footballers - Ranked 2nd, Finished 5th-8th (in Ireland, not the world)

You see Superdub2 this is sport and sh*t happens and we always don't get the result we want and finish where we should. 3 out of the 4 Irish track and field athletes have finished ahead of where expected. Look at the stats I posted above, its easy to understand, read them, don't listen to what you hear on the talkshows or the opinion pieces from non-sport journalists. They have performed.

darkskol

Dodge wrote: »

+1

I for one am actually proud of the performances of more or less all of our athletes in the athletic events not to even mention how well out boxers are doing.

keane2097

dedon wrote: »

You are talking rubbish. I bet you are a big GAA head who knows nothing about athletics

I'm a GAA follower and I don't agree with this guy.

Please don't drop to his level by bashing other sports for no good reason.

I think people should stop engaging with the OP on this issue.

Their point is sloppy, poorly made, and just plain prong, imho. OP does not deserve the well thought-out responses they are getting.

grahamo

It certainly would give everyone a lift if we won a medal or two but the main reason we don't particularly excel at the Olympics or in many world sports is there are feck all facilities. There's nothing out there for the kids. Third world countries have better sporting facilities than us. All the red tape in this country don't help either. Even to open a simple sports facility it would probably take a gazillion committees to set it up. Until this changes don't expect too many medals.

dedon

keane2097 wrote: »

I'm a GAA follower and I don't agree with this guy.

Please don't drop to his level by bashing other sports for no good reason.

Am where did I bash the sport?? Calm down

ZiggyStardust

Superdub2 wrote: »

Well i was correct about her name wasnt i?? and alistair cragg didnt get out of the heat... what a fantastic performance..... maybe the irish olympic council should concentrate all their financial resources into boxing instead of ploughing money into sports for which we have no talent, i.e. athletics, and elitist sports that very few common irish men or women could ever hope to compete in and as such couldnt gve a rats ass about, i.e. sailing, rowing etc

It seems you didn't even read any other threads in this forum, and just logged on and gave your rant. Because if you had read, you would have known Cragg qualified.

What would you like for us to drop athletics altogether seeing as no-one has any talent in it.

Radioheader

Cragg didn't qualify in the 1500 (not his strongest event) and qualifed brilliantly in the 5000. I was very proud of him. He lead the pace through 2,000 metres to ensure it was a fast time and then finished 6th. His time beat the winning times of the other two heats. He collapsed in agony on the line. Brilliant stuff.

It's a pity about the drug situation, it's been great otherwise.

Redgraffle

First of all the boxers have been brilliant - I've watched every second of every fight and they deserve all the support they get.

Athletics gets so little money in Ireland compared to other sports. Not only that they get very little compared to a lot of other countries. You are asking our athletes to beat guys who have big support structures and big money behind them. Not only that you are asking them to beat a number of athletes (no names, countries etc mentioned) who are up to their gills on drugs.

Irish athletes in the current environment are not on a level playing field with a lot of other nations. Take Cragg, Chamney or Fagan. These guys will run close to if not more than 100 miles a week training at least twice a day. I love GAA but you can't compare the commitement required of GAA and a 5,000m or a marathon.

Can you imagine how much pressure the Dubs would be under if they had to play against the juiced up Russians or the Americans, Keynans etc...

Athletics for my money is the toughest sport out there - anyone even able to live with these guys deserves our RESPECT and if they underperform there is a right way to get that message across rather than what we see in Ireland every 4 years. The Cragg interview on Radio 1 brought it home - the guys was in tatters trying to compete against 13 Keynans (running for Bahrain, Quatar and every other country who can afford to buy them...) and yet in his words the Irish look for every f**kin opportunity to tear you down - it embarasses me to be Irish at times like this....

Kiernan and Coughlan need to offer some proper analysis on TV rather than knocking every Irish performance just to make themselves look better and maintain their "legend status"



.

keane2097

dedon wrote: »

Am where did I bash the sport?? Calm down

Assuming that the OP is a GAA person because his argument is badly thought out and nonsensical is an unnecessary bash at the GAA and people involved in it imo.

dedon

keane2097 wrote: »

Assuming that the OP is a GAA person because his argument is badly thought out and nonsensical is an unnecessary bash at the GAA and people involved in it imo.

Well your post/argument is badly though out aswell. Thats two of ye then

keane2097

dedon wrote: »

Well your post/argument is badly though out aswell. Thats two of ye then

Ok just so long as we've established that you have nothing intelligent to say..

Carry on...

Superdub2

dedon wrote: »

Well your post/argument is badly though out aswell. Thats two of ye then

haha and you are most definitely from the country ( i.e. anywhere outside the pale) which would explain your anomosity towards dubs. just to help you out i am a dub and i am a fan of dublin (although im embarressed to admit it at the moment) and i have played gaelic football but it is not my number one sport. hope that helps!

as for my grammer and use of english which seem to have received one or two covert comments, i dont have the time to do anything when i post other than get my point across so apologies if i have offended anybodys sensibilities

I do not believe athletics is the toughest sport out there, try swimming.

and for all the morton stadium heads who have been so offended by my post. Remember its just my opinion and like an arsehole everybody has got one.

And for the guy who suggested the thread be closed down. Dont be so ridiculous and try not to embarress yourself so much.

thirtyfoot

Superdub2 wrote: »

haha and you are most definitely from the country ( i.e. anywhere outside the pale) which would explain your anomosity towards dubs. just to help you out i am a dub and i am a fan of dublin (although im embarressed to admit it at the moment) and i have played gaelic football but it is not my number one sport. hope that helps!

as for my grammer and use of english which seem to have received one or two covert comments, i dont have the time to do anything when i post other than get my point across so apologies if i have offended anybodys sensibilities

I do not believe athletics is the toughest sport out there, try swimming.

and for all the morton stadium heads who have been so offended by my post. Remember its just my opinion and like an arsehole everybody has got one.

And for the guy who suggested the thread be closed down. Dont be so ridiculous and try not to embarress yourself so much.

Fair enough. Can you answer one question now that you have got some perspective and info from us - knowing that 10 or the 13 athletes so far have over-performed based on their ranking and ability, do you still think its been a disaster. Be honest.

premierstone

dedon wrote: »

Well your post/argument is badly though out aswell. Thats two of ye then

So dedon whats your problem with the GAA or were you just sh*te at it, your doing exactly what the op did in tarring everyone within an organisation with the same brush, while im a GAA follower I also take a keen interest in Athletics and i dont agree with him i think the Irish team has performed very well

Oh and did you see Eamon Coughlan on TV last night when he was saying it was a very poor olympics for the Irish - i never knew he was a GAA head I just thought he was a boll*x, guess ye have them in Athlethics aswell

cfitz

Redgraffle wrote: »

Not only that you are asking them to beat a number of athletes (no names, countries etc mentioned) who are up to their gills on drugs.

You can't use that argument - the Irish could be the ones who are up to their gills on drugs.

Redgraffle wrote: »

The Cragg interview on Radio 1 brought it home - the guys was in tatters trying to compete against 13 Keynans (running for Bahrain, Quatar and every other country who can afford to buy them...) and yet in his words the Irish look for every f**kin opportunity to tear you down - it embarasses me to be Irish at times like this....

Eh Cragg is an African (raised at altitude) running for another country...

shels4ever

cfitz wrote: »

You can't use that argument - the Irish could be the ones who are up to their gills on drugs.



Eh Cragg is an African (raised at altitude) running for another country...

Well i'd say he's irish raised at altitude in africa

dedon

premierstone wrote: »

So dedon whats your problem with the GAA or were you just sh*te at it, your doing exactly what the op did in tarring everyone within an organisation with the same brush, while im a GAA follower I also take a keen interest in Athletics and i dont agree with him i think the Irish team has performed very well

Oh and did you see Eamon Coughlan on TV last night when he was saying it was a very poor olympics for the Irish - i never knew he was a GAA head I just thought he was a boll*x, guess ye have them in Athlethics aswell

Take it easy man!! Most people would agree with me here in saying that most GAA follwers are very narrow minded towards other sports and they don’t even recognise an olympic medal. They put it in the same context of an All-Ireland medal. You cant compare it.

My experience is they mount off about other sports and end up looking foolish. it is just my opinion, Now lets get back on topic please!!

Also all the money that has been pumped into GAA in this country is crazy. Those funds could hev been used to develop athletics and give the boxers more funding as they need it.

Diamondmaker

I have copied this to the appropriate thread.
With regards to people being knowledgable about Athletics or not is irrelevant.
The Olympics are a show case event and every Tom Dick and Harry watches it. Joe Public pays for these guys to go and by the admission of the regular posters here, they are all sent without any expectation of a medal. So why send them ?

This is high level sport, at the end of the day sport does and always has solely existed to enteratin the masses. The original ethos of the Olympics was the cream of athletes, competing in a huge colleseum to represent and entertain.
They were not sent there to have a great personal experience and neither should they. Losers were not feted in any way and there was only place for heroes, victors and glorious winners.

Every nation needs something to pin their hat on. Ireland is not a poor nation any more and we have had enough minor tastes of success in various forums to have raised our expectations. Small countries like NZ pin their hat on the All Blacks, Cuba - Boxers, Ozzies - swimming and even punch way above in other disciplines, Eastern Euro - weights and gymnastics, African nations - distance runners and the Carribean - sprinters. Roy Keane, Padraig Harrington and the Irish rugby team so depressed with the 3rd Triple crown are recent examples of where 2nd place is failure.

What have we got to be proud of on the world stage?
If the Olympics continues to deliver no entertainment value for the punter ( and not the regular athletics fan, giving bravo to brave failures ) then it is rightly going to suffer harsh and "unfair" questions and analyis from "uneducated" sun shine fans. Why not, the world stage, in any discipline draws this.

Irish rugby and its players have taken huge flack, managers and coaches have been sacked. All said the IRFU is still a self sufficient organisiation on a day to day basis ( national sporting infrastucture aside ), drawing week in week out crowds to shadow Irelands biggest annual track meet crowds. The FAI too has had to hold the hand up to serious flack, with humiliating sackings and internal reports. The public turned on management in a huge way when results were poor.

We are no world super power in either soccer or rugby but the public have much higher expectations than that are levelled on our athletes on this forum. Why should they be so staunchly defended in defeat? We want them to be t the top and we expect to competitive.
Why, oh why, are we so soft here on our Olympic team. Its the same every year dissapointment after dissapointment and plenty of support for brave losers. This is a culture ingrained into us and is complicit in our lack of competitveness.

Anything other than winning is failure and until we see failuire as failure we will fail to see success.

thirtyfoot

Diamondmaker wrote: »

Anything other than winning is failure to the succesful countries and until we see failuire as failure we will fail to see success.

Thats beautiful man, beautiful:D Read the 5th post on this thread and tell me did the majority of athletes under perform in relation to their ability and ranking within their event? The athletes have got here despite the system and not because of it. Your disappointment is understandable but it shouldn't be directed at athletes but the system. The expectations of this team were low and most (77%) have overperformed. What did you expect? If you want to discuss the shortfalls of Irish sport you will find many here to discuss and debate but when it gets personal to the athletes (not saying you are getting personal) then people get touchy as many here will know the athletes out there as the track and field community is such a small one. We have maybe only 300-400 athletes who practice the sport properly in the country, ie, train 5-6 days a week, compete regularly etc, its a small pool.

Nobody here is saying look at our athletes, aren't they amazing world beaters, but what we are saying is that the majority have done all in their powers to represent their country to the utmost of the ability (even if its relative limited ability).

This is a vicious circle, in a month we'll all be back to slogging through our winter training ourselves or with our athletes and Joe Soap won't care until London 2012.

aburke

Diamondmaker wrote: »

Anything other than winning is failure and until we see failuire as failure we will fail to see success.

Maybe I misunderstand you, but are you suggesting that unless we have an Olympic Champion /World Cup winners at any given sport, then there is no point in funding it?

If that's the case - what sports, in your opinion deserve any funding?

Diamondmaker

aburke wrote: »

Maybe I misunderstand you, but are you suggesting that unless we have an Olympic Champion /World Cup winners at any given sport, then there is no point in funding it?

If that's the case - what sports, in your opinion deserve any funding?

NO, I said lets stop feting brave triers and expect more, only way to get more is to expect more.

My other point is that the public funding used to send so many non medal chances over could have been used to heap extra funding on any athlete, fighter, sailor, or a anothe that has proven a chance of delivering a medal.

aburke

Diamondmaker wrote: »

NO, I said lets stop feting brave triers and expect more, only way to get more is to expect more.

My other point is that the public funding used to send so many non medal chances over could have been used to heap extra funding on any athlete, fighter, sailor, or a anothe that has proven a chance of delivering a medal.

Ok. You're obviously in the know.
Name all these medal contenders you are aware of who didn't get the funding they need?

Clum

dedon wrote: »

Take it easy man!! Most people would agree with me here in saying that most GAA follwers are very narrow minded towards other sports and they don’t even recognise an olympic medal.

Don't put me in the same category as you, or suggest that I share your point of view. I'm a big athletics fan, also a fan of other sports including GAA, and judging by your comments after the mens 200m we don't share the same opinions.

titan18

We shouldn't have sent over some of the athletes.

Anybody without a chance of getting out into a final or semi-final didnt need to go.Fionnualla Britton and Pauline Curley shouldn't have gone.Some of them have been injured for a while and are going over for the experience.Why should they?

I dont know if its true but they said on RTE that O'Keefe was training with a man's hammer and she also did the discus at the national championships.Why would you be doing another event or training wrongly before the Olympics?If she acts like that,she doesnt deserve to go to the Olympics

dedon

Clum wrote: »

Don't put me in the same category as you, or suggest that I share your point of view. I'm a big athletics fan, also a fan of other sports including GAA, and judging by your comments after the mens 200m we don't share the same opinions.

Where did I mention your name????

Clum

dedon wrote: »

Where did I mention your name????

You insinuated that I, among others, agreed with you by stating 'Most people would agree with me here'.

I don't.

dedon

Clum wrote: »

You insinuated that I, among others, agreed with you by stating 'Most people would agree with me here'.

I don't.

Most as in not everyone. You are obviusly one who doesnt. Big deal!!

Dodge

Diamondmaker wrote: »

NO, I said lets stop feting brave triers and expect more, only way to get more is to expect more.

My other point is that the public funding used to send so many non medal chances over could have been used to heap extra funding on any athlete, fighter, sailor, or a anothe that has proven a chance of delivering a medal.

How do you measure "proven"? Only one of the boxers had medalled at european level before. None at world level (in fact only one had reached quarters). Rob Heffernan has finished 6th at worlds and now 8th in Olympics? How is he not worthy of funding?

Dodge

dedon wrote: »

Most as in not everyone. You are obviusly one who doesnt. Big deal!!

Simple solution, don't speak for others...

ZiggyStardust

Diamondmaker wrote: »

My other point is that the public funding used to send so many non medal chances over could have been used to heap extra funding on any athlete, fighter, sailor, or a anothe that has proven a chance of delivering a medal.

Can you name a few people in other sports that has a proven chance of delivering. To me athletics is on a par (with the exception of maybe boxing) success wise with any other sport in the olympics. Rowing, cycling, swimming etc. So where would you have given athletes money too.

titan18 wrote: »

Anybody without a chance of getting out into a final or semi-final didnt need to go.

Is this just athletics you are talking about? So according to you, Ireland should not bother (waste money) trying to qualify for the World Cup or Euro championships in football and even if we do qualify we should stay at home.
What nonsense.

How about Ireland ban all sports and everyone concentrate on GAA.

keane2097

dedon wrote: »

Most as in not everyone. You are obviusly one who doesnt. Big deal!!

I haven't seen anybody who does yet - who exactly are you talking about?

Where are all these people who agree with your wild, absurd generalisations?

thirtyfoot

titan18 wrote: »

.Fionnualla Britton

Fionnuala Britton - Ranked 43rd, finished 27th

titan18 wrote: »

Pauline Curley

Pauline Curley - Ranked 65th, finished 63rd

titan18 wrote: »

O'Keefe

Eileen O' Keeffe - Ranked 17th, finished 17th

ledgehack

i think it would be a lot more beneficial to increase funding rather than cut back.

our olympic boxers have proved medals are achievable

shels4ever

ledgehack wrote: »

i think it would be a lot more beneficial to increase funding rather than cut back.

our olympic boxers have proved medals are achievable

In some sports yes they are , but in others jsut making a final or semi is an achievment.

ledgehack

i think thats a fair statement

however though it is an achievement to get to a semi or final should the initial aim no matter what the sport be to win medals??

shels4ever

Well of course but in the likes of the 10,000 for an irish man to win a medal in that would be near impossible.

Dodge

ledgehack wrote: »

i think thats a fair statement

however though it is an achievement to get to a semi or final should the initial aim no matter what the sport be to win medals??

Why put unneccessary targets? What good do they do? Is it better for an athlete's future to hear of them "successfully" making a final, or "failing" to win a medal?

By all means link funding to medals etc, but to label anyone who finishes in the top 10 in the world as a failure is just plain stupid.

ledgehack

how do we know it is impossible?

and i am in no way saying that a top ten finish in the world is a failure.....but could it not be a case of trying for a medal, but i would be happy with a top 10place??

hawkwing

Brazil 187,508,000 --population--1 gold
indonesia pop-- 231,627,000-- 1 gold
We are doing ok and Curley deserved to go more than hundreds who were there. The Olympics would be sad if you were not allowed go unless you could guarantee a top 5 finish--how many athletes from the world would be there then?