New Speed Limit on M50

godtabh

So one of the main motorways in the country will have a speed limit of 100kph.

I thought this was only gona be a temporary measure

Link

xabi

The Independent wrote:

Mr Creegan said the 100kph limit would be enforced on safety grounds because motorists would have to "weave" through four lanes of traffic to access interchanges on the 34km route, which is being upgraded over three years at a cost of €1bn.

What a load of rubbish! Surely its only a 3 lane move at most and why would you be in the outermost overtaking lane if you knew you were leaving at the next junction.

X.

Alun

This is hardly new news ... it's been mentioned several times here and on Commuting & Transport over the last months.

Anyway, I thought the primary reason was the restricted lane widths rather than all that nonsense about "weaving".

Bluetonic

xabi wrote: »

why would you be in the outermost overtaking lane if you knew you were leaving at the next junction.

Exactly.

There are many 'Whys' when talking about M-driving in Ireland.

As for the 100kph limit, it's been no great secret that it was in store. It's been commented on to death on boards.ie already and in the media.

patrickc

it's a pain in the behind though, and we know it'll be rigidly enforced too

cormie

So they are basically saying it's 100 because Irish motorists can't drive properly and anticipate what lane they should be in?

The lane width is certainly smaller than the 3 lane motorways in the UK. Why?

Duckjob

That's still probably twice the speed you normally get to drive at on it anyway due to traffic and "fast lane" drivers.

Alun

cormie wrote: »

The lane width is certainly smaller than the 3 lane motorways in the UK. Why?

Because of the limited space available, especially under bridges etc., I'd imagine. Many UK 3-lane motorways were either designed as such from the start or were built as 2-lane ones but with a view to upgrading in the future.

xabi

Alun wrote: »

Because of the limited space available, especially under bridges etc., I'd imagine. Many UK 3-lane motorways were either designed as such from the start or were built as 2-lane ones but with a view to upgrading in the future.

Wasnt the M50 built as 2 lanes with the view to upgrading it?

cormie

yeah Are the lanes on the M50 too narrow to be bumped to 120 by regulations or is it just a "safer" choice to be 100?

Alun

xabi wrote: »

Wasnt the M50 built as 2 lanes with the view to upgrading it?

Don't know ... maybe to 3 lanes but not the 3 lanes plus auxiliary lane layout they have now?

Heroditas

cormie wrote: »

So they are basically saying it's 100 because Irish motorists can't drive properly and anticipate what lane they should be in?

Yeah, pretty much. :mad:

godtabh

Alun wrote: »

This is hardly new news ... it's been mentioned several times here and on Commuting & Transport over the last months.

Anyway, I thought the primary reason was the restricted lane widths rather than all that nonsense about "weaving".

That discussion was more to do with the temporary speed limit along the construction works. This will be permanent along all the M50

AlekSmart

The full 100KPH restriction on the M50 was indeed raised here and elsewhere some time ago,however a large degree of confusion remained concerning the temporary road work limit etc etc.

What is evident here,yet again,is the almost total incompetence of a significant number of our reputedly "Professionally Qualified" Planners,Designers and Engineers of which Mr Creegan might be deemed a very good example.

What we have here is essentially misrepresentation on a rather grand scale whereby we now are asked to accept that a huge Motroway UPgrade project has turned into a DOWNgrade in reality.

In this bizzarre Republic such madness is now considered normal and in fact a great many of the populace are so punch drunk that they will automatically shout Huzzah ! Up the M50 Upgrade..! without actually inspecting the goods as delivered by Mr Creegan and his fellow travellers.

This nonsense,coming on the heels of the "West Link Electronic Toll Scam" only serves to underling the complete and total distaste which the Public Administration establishment has for those who are paying its (considerable) wages ... :eek:

Many years ago in the immediate aftermath of the fall of the Shah of Iran,elements of the Iranian populace discovered a new and innovative use for the Lampstandards in Tehran.....:(

Zoney

cormie wrote: »

So they are basically saying it's 100 because Irish motorists can't drive properly and anticipate what lane they should be in?

And are they wrong in that analysis?

People still insist on tailgating in all conditions too, showing a complete ignorance of physics nevermind how to drive. There *will* be another event like the M7 pile-up due to this, and next time the consequences could be even greater.

Lane changing is a disaster in this country though, and the M50 will indeed see a lot more lane changing. There's little other option but to impose the 100 km/h limit. It's not like we are going to properly train our drivers anytime soon, whether learners at present, licence holders who have passed a basic test (after who knows how many attempts), or indeed filled out a form around 1980.

Too many people here cannot drive, and perfectly reasonable individuals who in theory know how to drive still turn into inconsiderate morons as soon as they get behind a wheel (although admittedly having pathetic drivers on the roads doesn't help anyone else's mood or driving behaviour).

Alun

kearnsr wrote: »

That discussion was more to do with the temporary speed limit along the construction works. This will be permanent along all the M50

No it wasn't. There were some threads that started off like that, true, but it was then pointed out by people in the know that it was actually already a well known fact that the 100 km/h limit was going to be a permanent one. If people chose to ignore or skip over those posts then so be it.

godtabh

AlekSmart wrote: »

What is evident here,yet again,is the almost total incompetence of a significant number of our reputedly "Professionally Qualified" Planners,Designers and Engineers of which Mr Creegan might be deemed a very good example.

In what way? The current M50 desingers arent working with a blank canvas like the orginal M50 desingers. Decsions were made back then that limit what can be done now.

A lot of this seems to come down to the fact that Irish drivers cant handle 4 lane motorways and dont know how to drive on them.

Sean9015

kearnsr wrote: »

In what way? The current M50 desingers arent working with a blank canvas like the orginal M50 desingers. Decsions were made back then that limit what can be done now.

A lot of this seems to come down to the fact that Irish drivers cant handle 4 lane motorways and dont know how to drive on them.

Not only four lane - three lane as well. I'll bet the next time they resurface the N7 from Newlands Cross out to the M7, they won't have to touch the left hand lane - ie what should be the normal traffic lane - as nobody actually uses it!

As regards Zoneys post - agree 1000%.

Nevyn

kearnsr wrote: »

In what way? The current M50 desingers arent working with a blank canvas like the orginal M50 desingers. Decsions were made back then that limit what can be done now.

A lot of this seems to come down to the fact that Irish drivers cant handle 4 lane motorways and dont know how to drive on them.

Well it is not something that is taught and you get your full drivers lience with out any experience of motorways and then apprently you are safe to drive on them.

drunkmonkey

It's a tax and nothing else....

It's complete theft by the government, they have to pay NRT €50 million a year to buy back the toll bridge until 2020...I know "let's make it up in speeding charges"

100,000 cars pass through a day, let's say with an average spend of €3, that's €300,000 a day, now multiply that by 365, the Government will have revenues of €109,000000 a year from tolls alone, over the next 12 years until NTR are paid off the government will have collected a massive €1.3 Billion in toll charges.....if they can make an extra €50 million a year in speeding charges they'll have made an absolute killing and more or less got the road for free..

Tolls are Theft, The M50 is more than capable of handling cars doing a speed of below 140kmph in the overtaking lane.......

godtabh

drunkmonkey wrote: »

It's a tax and nothing else....

The speed limit is a tax?

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Tolls are Theft, The M50 is more than capable of handling cars doing a speed of below 140kmph in the overtaking lane.......

Can you back this up?

AlekSmart

Kearnsr sez.....
"The current M50 desingers arent working with a blank canvas like the orginal M50 desingers. Decsions were made back then that limit what can be done now."

Well put and the essential point I make.
The M50,particularly the West-Link element was,is and apparently will remain a Deeply Flawed concept if only by reason of the dubious manner of its conception and enforced operation since.

The limits of those decisions are now being future-proofed by those who were mere Apprentices to the Princes of design and administration who devised this incredible scam.

The limits which Kearnsr speaks of could and indeed should be removed by firstly reassuming the west-link into full Public Thoroughfare status without ANY tolls.

If the good ol boys still want their bung,let them design,fund and build their own damn Motorway and Bridge and market that to an adoring public.....:)

drunkmonkey

kearnsr wrote: »

The speed limit is a tax?




Can you back this up?

The Speed limit is a tax, it's aimed at getting more revenue from motorists, I've driven all over this country and the M50 is probably one of the safest and fastest roads in the country....enforcing a 100kmph speed limit via video camera is revenue generation and nothing more....

Can I back up that the road is more than capable of handling the higher speed limit....Yes I can....I'm still here with all my organs intact and i've never driven below 100kmph on the M50....

My big problem with the M50 is middle lane drivers...they should be arrested and there licence endorsed...it's worse than drink driving in my book.

techdiver

If the speed limit is reduced to 100kmph it should also mean that it's name should change to the N50 and the notion that it is an actual motorway removed.

blorg

Does it really matter? I would imagine you'd be happy (not to mention lucky) to be able to drive at 100km/h the length of it most times of the day anyway. 100km/h you'll do the length of it in 20 minutes; 120km/h would reduce this to 17 minutes. Maximum possible journey time reduction: 3 minutes.

godtabh

AlekSmart wrote: »

Kearnsr sez.....
"The current M50 desingers arent working with a blank canvas like the orginal M50 desingers. Decsions were made back then that limit what can be done now."

Well put and the essential point I make.
The M50,particularly the West-Link element was,is and apparently will remain a Deeply Flawed concept if only by reason of the dubious manner of its conception and enforced operation since.

The limits of those decisions are now being future-proofed by those who were mere Apprentices to the Princes of design and administration who devised this incredible scam.

The limits which Kearnsr speaks of could and indeed should be removed by firstly reassuming the west-link into full Public Thoroughfare status without ANY tolls.

If the good ol boys still want their bung,let them design,fund and build their own damn Motorway and Bridge and market that to an adoring public.....:)

The exisiting of the toll will not impact on the speed limit (except at this location).

drunkmonkey wrote: »

The Speed limit is a tax, it's aimed at getting more revenue from motorists, I've driven all over this country and the M50 is probably one of the safest and fastest roads in the country....enforcing a 100kmph speed limit via video camera is revenue generation and nothing more....

I still dont get it how a speed limit is a tax. Your point about speed cameras isnt valid either. If you dont speed there isnt an issue. If you break the speed limit you get fined not taxed.

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Can I back up that the road is more than capable of handling the higher speed limit....Yes I can....I'm still here with all my organs intact and i've never driven below 100kmph on the M50....

My big problem with the M50 is middle lane drivers...they should be arrested and there licence endorsed...it's worse than drink driving in my book.

I wouldnt call that backing up. Just luck.

So you're saying its ok to speed but you have a problem with middle lane drivers? Whats wrong with them?

jimmycrackcorm

The NRA are idiots and this follows a long line of idiotic pronouncements with:

* Our motorways didn't need media barriers because of the wide median strips.
* Until people got killed and injured with cars crossing over the M50 media and they decided that motorbike "friendly" wire barriers were better
* The southern cross M50 section was made 100km because it isn't straight enough
* Now the M50 limit will be reduced because we're ok driving with 2 lanes but apparently not with 3.

Honey-ec

Sean9015 wrote: »

I'll bet the next time they resurface the N7 from Newlands Cross out to the M7, they won't have to touch the left hand lane - ie what should be the normal traffic lane - as nobody actually uses it!

And long may that continue! That lane is like my personal Newlands-Naas shuttle lane!

godtabh

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

The NRA are idiots and this follows a long line of idiotic pronouncements with:

* Our motorways didn't need media barriers because of the wide median strips.
* Until people got killed and injured with cars crossing over the M50 media and they decided that motorbike "friendly" wire barriers were better
* The southern cross M50 section was made 100km because it isn't straight enough
* Now the M50 limit will be reduced because we're ok driving with 2 lanes but apparently not with 3.

I presume you median barriers?

Design constraints such as land take, ground conditions ect would mean that the curve was required.

When was the M50 (the first section/part) first open?

drunkmonkey

kearnsr wrote: »

So you're saying its ok to speed but you have a problem with middle lane drivers? Whats wrong with them?

It's ok to speed in the right locations in the right conditions.....

Middle lane drivers are dangerous, they block up 3 lanes of a motorway...the force trucks and other users into the outside lane...they cuase unnecessary overtaking and pose a real hazard for inside and outside lane drivers...they are the true muppets of the motorway...I love driving up there arse and flahing my lights and blowing my horn at them...it's a pity the garda wouldn't take these motorists to task...but there's no money in it so why should they.....

godtabh

drunkmonkey wrote: »

It's ok to speed in the right locations in the right conditions.....

Middle lane drivers are dangerous, they block up 3 lanes of a motorway...the force trucks and other users into the outside lane...they cuase unnecessary overtaking and pose a real hazard for inside and outside lane drivers...they are the true muppets of the motorway...I love driving up there arse and flahing my lights and blowing my horn at them...it's a pity the garda wouldn't take these motorists to task...but there's no money in it so why should they.....

Are middle lane drives breaking the law?

It would seem tome that your the meance on the road who is a danger to every one else

xabi

kearnsr wrote: »

Are middle lane drives breaking the law?

Yes, keep left unless overtaking.

markpb

kearnsr wrote: »

Are middle lane drives breaking the law?

It would seem tome that your the meance on the road who is a danger to every one else

I can't back this up with RTA paragraphs but there are two rules which basically boil down to
- keep left unless overtaking or in slow moving traffic
- don't inconvenience other road users

Middle lane drivers are breaking both of those.

godtabh

xabi wrote: »

Yes, keep left unless overtaking.

markpb wrote: »

I can't back this up with RTA paragraphs but there are two rules which basically boil down to
- keep left unless overtaking or in slow moving traffic
- don't inconvenience other road users

Middle lane drivers are breaking both of those.

That assumes there is no in the left lane for them to be breaking the law doesnt it?

If they are over taking traffic going slower then them it isnt an issue is it?

xabi

kearnsr wrote: »

That assumes there is no in the left lane for them to be breaking the law doesnt it?

If they are over taking traffic going slower then them it isnt an issue is it?

Correct, but the term "Middle lane hogger" that we are discussing refers to someone in the middle lane while the driving lane is free.

drunkmonkey

kearnsr wrote: »

The speed limit is a tax?




Can you back this up?

kearnsr wrote: »

Are middle lane drives breaking the law?

It would seem tome that your the meance on the road who is a danger to every one else

I don't know if there breaking the law but common sense and manners has to prevail at some point....

I'm hardly what you call a menace, no penalty points and no traffic offences in 16 years of driving, I believe I have some authority on the subject:p

murphaph

kearnsr wrote: »

That assumes there is no in the left lane for them to be breaking the law doesnt it?

If they are over taking traffic going slower then them it isnt an issue is it?

A "middle lane driver" is someone who hogs the middle lane on a motorway while the other lanes are empty. It's a well known expression

A Dub in Glasgo

A pet hate of mine. As well as the 'overtake the other lane at +1kph' drivers

murphaph

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

A pet hate of mine. As well as the 'overtake the other lane at +1kph' drivers

Aye, move out, put your foot down and move back in! dawdlers waste road capacity.

drunkmonkey

murphaph wrote: »

Aye, move out, put your foot down and move back in! dawdlers waste road capacity.

If you've got some spare time pull back infront of them and give them a cold had slap of Retrubition, put on your fog lights for added effect...

icdg

techdiver wrote: »

If the speed limit is reduced to 100kmph it should also mean that it's name should change to the N50 and the notion that it is an actual motorway removed.

Why, its still a motorway. The M50 has always had a 100 km/h speed limit between junctions 12 and 14. Now the entire motorway (except between junctions 14 and 17) will have a 100km/h speed limit. So for that matter will the M8 Cashel bypass and M7 Nenagh bypass once they are upgraded to motorway.

Motorway refers not to having a 120 km/h speed limit, but to the road being restricted to motor vehicle traffic. If it wasn't a motorway, they'd need to let pedestrians and pedal-cyclists on it.

murphaph

icdg wrote: »

Motorway refers not to having a 120 km/h speed limit, but to the road being restricted to motor vehicle traffic. If it wasn't a motorway, they'd need to let pedestrians and pedal-cyclists on it.

Saw a couple out for a Sunday cycle down the middle of the works between J13 and J12 on my way back from Wexford last weekend, then saw a woman walking along between J9 and J10 on monday morning. I wonder would the guards even stop for a word if they happened upon such people?

jd

icdg wrote: »

Motorway refers not to having a 120 km/h speed limit, but to the road being restricted to motor vehicle traffic. If it wasn't a motorway, they'd need to let pedestrians and pedal-cyclists on it.

It also restricts the kind of development allowed. If the motorway order was rescinded it would be technically possible for someone to get planning permission to build ahouse with an entrance to the road. This is why the NRA talk about "protecting their investment (from gombeen county councillors)" when they redesignate a HQDC as a motorway.

mackerski

kearnsr wrote: »

Are middle lane drives breaking the law?

Do you have a driving licence? If so, how did you avoid knowing the answer to this pretty basic question?

godtabh

mackerski wrote: »

Do you have a driving licence? If so, how did you avoid knowing the answer to this pretty basic question?

I know the answer to the question

Orchard Rebel

As far as I can recall, "middle lane hogging" on a motorway is an offence in the UK and the police can pull you over.

Speaking of the UK, surely the M50 should be the subject of an active traffic management system or variable speed limits - as seen on the M42/M25 - rather than an arbitrary 100kph limit.

But perhaps that kind of thinking is too advanced for the average Irish civil servant....

godtabh

Orchard Rebel wrote: »

As far as I can recall, "middle lane hogging" on a motorway is an offence in the UK and the police can pull you over.

Speaking of the UK, surely the M50 should be the subject of an active traffic management system or variable speed limits - as seen on the M42/M25 - rather than an arbitrary 100kph limit.

But perhaps that kind of thinking is too advanced for the average Irish civil servant....

There is/was a traffic management system in operation now

murphaph

kearnsr wrote: »

There is/was a traffic management system in operation now

Orchard said "Active traffic management". This (to most people) means variable speed limits for each carriageway like this:



....and/or lane control signals like this:



Neither of which exist on the M50 as of today. Provision appears to have been made in the new gantries to house lane control signals however at present, irish law gives them no legal standing outside tunnels!

godtabh

I thought he was talking about construction traffic management which there is.

the VMS sings act as active traffic management as well on the feeder routes and on the M50

mackerski

kearnsr wrote: »

I know the answer to the question

Then why ask it? The other poster's comments suggested that he too knows the answer.

mobpd

Orchard Rebel wrote: »

As far as I can recall, "middle lane hogging" on a motorway is an offence in the UK and the police can pull you over.

Speaking of the UK, surely the M50 should be the subject of an active traffic management system or variable speed limits - as seen on the M42/M25 - rather than an arbitrary 100kph limit.

But perhaps that kind of thinking is too advanced for the average Irish civil servant....

"Breach of lane driving rule" is a penalty point offence ....but the inept garda dont seem to bother with it...as at end April 2008, of the 631070 penalty notices issued driving in wrong lane on a motorway is recorded 764 times (0.12%)