National ID Card

DUMBOBLONDE

Looks like Paddy and Majella are going to be getting national ID cards soon.

http://www.herald.ie/national-news/new-state-id-cards-on-way-1446912.html

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/article4493788.ece



Just as planned they have targeted the weaker members of society as the first step towards a national id card.

Those on welfare and pensioners will be required to take the card. No doubt this will combat that ever present "terrorism". It will then be so "effective" the rest of us should also get it. Great fun.

Just like the 7 years of degrading searches at Dublin airport, where so far they have turned up a grand total of zero "bad guys".

As for welfare fraud, are you having a laugh???

No doubt Paddy and Majella will smile and proclaim "its great", I love having my picture taken, and after all "I have nothing to hide".

whiskeyman

Brennan is obviously still taking an active part in this from his grave...


Article from The Sunday Times August 14, 2005


:pac:

Steve_o

DUMBOBLONDE wrote: »

Looks like Paddy and Majella are going to be getting national ID cards soon.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/article555199.ece

Just as planned they have targeted the weaker members of society as the first step towards a national id card.

Those on welfare and pensioners will be required to take the card. No doubt this will combat that ever present "terrorism". It will then be so "effective" the rest of us should also get it. Great fun.

Just like the 7 years of degrading searches at Dublin airport, where so far they have turned up a grand total of zero "bad guys".

As for welfare fraud, are you having a laugh???

No doubt Paddy and Majella will smile and proclaim "its great", I love having my picture taken, and after all "I have nothing to hide".

FAIL

This is 3 years old....

thelordofcheese

DUMBOBLONDE wrote: »

Looks like Paddy and Majella are going to be getting national ID cards soon.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/article555199.ece

Just as planned they have targeted the weaker members of society as the first step towards a national id card.

Those on welfare and pensioners will be required to take the card. No doubt this will combat that ever present "terrorism". It will then be so "effective" the rest of us should also get it. Great fun.

Just like the 7 years of degrading searches at Dublin airport, where so far they have turned up a grand total of zero "bad guys".

As for welfare fraud, are you having a laugh???

No doubt Paddy and Majella will smile and proclaim "its great", I love having my picture taken, and after all "I have nothing to hide".

maybe "Paddy" and "Majella" will post "without" "using" "quotes" "around" "every" "other" "word" "like" "it" "is" "making" "some" "kind" "of" "point".

javaboy

^Beaten to it.

@OP if you're going to spout this nonsense, can you at least make sure it's up to date nonsense. Look at Run_to_da_hills for instance. He usually uses an up to date article from which to concoct his conspiracy theories.

You're just not really trying are you.

Dord

FAIL.

chopperbyrne

I've still yet to see a decent argument against a national ID card.

DUMBOBLONDE

the new irish man really is a goner.

Are we all in this togeather?

http://www.herald.ie/opinion/columnists/sinead-ryan/national-id-cards-will-make-all-our-lives-a-little-bit-easier-1447720.html

Wreck

whiskeyman wrote: »

Brennan is obviously still taking an active part in this from his grave...
:pac:

Please mods, for the sake of the little ones, move this to the Zombie Survival Forum.

chopperbyrne wrote: »

I've still yet to see a decent argument against a national ID card.

That's because it's a good idea

javaboy

chopperbyrne wrote: »

I've still yet to see a decent argument against a national ID card.

Eh haven't you read any of the threads about it here? They are going to be "mandatory". There will be random spot checks on the street with "jail sentences" for non-carrying and you'll have to show it every time you buy a newspaper.

They are just a precursor to RFID chips "implanted" "under our skin"! Just make sure you get decent brand tinfoil for your hats everybody. The Tesco brand foil has been "compromised" by government forces. It now has millions of microscopic holes which let your "brainwaves" out and more importantly their brainwaves in!

And as for the "lizards".....

Sherifu

Run_to_da_hills alt account?

Needs more salt in any case.

DUMBOBLONDE

chopperbyrne wrote: »

I've still yet to see a decent argument against a national ID card.

Would you be willing hand over all DNA and biometric information also?

javaboy

Wreck wrote: »

Please mods, for the sake of the little ones, move this to the Zombie Survival Forum.

Genius. Ok so you're in Woodies and a former Fianna Fail minister suddenly appears baying for your brains and proposing a national ID card system.

Husqvarna's are out of stock btw. What do you do?

Steve_o

DUMBOBLONDE wrote: »

the new irish man really is a goner.

Are we all in this togeather?

http://www.herald.ie/opinion/columnists/sinead-ryan/national-id-cards-will-make-all-our-lives-a-little-bit-easier-1447720.html

Still no argument against it i'm afraid...

Thats 2 Fails!!!

DUMBOBLONDE wrote: »

Would you be willing hand over all DNA and biometric information also?

Where does it say anything about this?

You're wearing a tin foil hat aren't you??

chopperbyrne

DUMBOBLONDE wrote: »

Would you be willing hand over all DNA and biometric information also?

If it meant that in the event of a serious accident and I'm taken to hospital needing urgent medical attention they have all the information they need about me already on file, then yes I'd happily hand it over.

javaboy

DUMBOBLONDE wrote: »

Would you be willing hand over all DNA and biometric information also?

Chuckle. That feckin IBTS has been collecting our DNA for years. B@stards!

And they have the gall to do it in public and everything. They even run ads on telly. These people belong to a "special club" alright. The club of sheep who'll do exactly what their "elected" government tells them!

javaboy

Sherifu wrote: »

Run_to_da_hills alt account?

Needs more salt in any case.

That's a bit harsh now. RTDH is way better at this than DUMBOBLONDE.

Steve_o

fitz0 wrote: »

Ive been wondering that too. What exactly is bad about these proposed cards?

So far i've seen nothing bad about them!

Wreck

javaboy wrote: »

Genius. Ok so you're in Woodies and a former Fianna Fail minister suddenly appears baying for your brains and proposing a national ID card system.

Husqvarna's are out of stock btw. What do you do?

Depends which Fianna Failer it is. I mean if it's Brennan I pull my trusty samurai sword (never leave home without it folks) and lop off his head. If its Haughey I run screaming in terror as he is likely to be some kind of vampire/zombie cross breed and no match for mortal weapons.

DUMBOBLONDE

chopperbyrne wrote: »

If it meant that in the event of a serious accident and I'm taken to hospital needing urgent medical attention they have all the information they need about me already on file, then yes I'd happily hand it over.

Always look at the bright side of life.........................

There are two sides to every coin, my friend.

thelordofcheese

Wreck wrote: »

Depends which Fianna Failer it is. I mean if it's Brennan I pull my trusty samurai sword (never leave home without it folks) and lop off his head.

Fool!
You cannot kill that which does not live!
FF-Zombies are unstopable.

Also, i like where this thread is going.

chopperbyrne

DUMBOBLONDE wrote: »

Always look at the bright side of life.........................

There are two sides to every coin, my friend.

Enlighten me so.

javaboy

Wreck wrote: »

Depends which Fianna Failer it is. I mean if it's Brennan I pull my trusty samurai sword (never leave home without it folks) and lop off his head. If its Haughey I run screaming in terror as he is likely to be some kind of vampire/zombie cross breed and no match for mortal weapons.

tbh I would have run screaming from CJH had I seen him when he was alive, never mind undead.

If it was Noel Dempsey now, I'd probably take pity on him and let him bite my brains. God knows he needs some.

Mahatma coat

Now I have an image of a Zombie CJH in a tatered Charvet shirt,arms outstretched moaning

Maaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrraaaaaaa



Shine on OP

Steve_o

DUMBOBLONDE wrote: »

Always look at the bright side of life.........................

There are two sides to every coin, my friend.

Harvey Dent begs to differ....:rolleyes:

Run_to_da_hills

DUMBOBLONDE wrote: »

Looks like Paddy and Majella are going to be getting national ID cards soon.

http://www.herald.ie/national-news/new-state-id-cards-on-way-1446912.html

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/article4493788.ece



Just as planned they have targeted the weaker members of society as the first step towards a national id card.

Those on welfare and pensioners will be required to take the card. No doubt this will combat that ever present "terrorism". It will then be so "effective" the rest of us should also get it. Great fun.

Just like the 7 years of degrading searches at Dublin airport, where so far they have turned up a grand total of zero "bad guys".

As for welfare fraud, are you having a laugh???

No doubt Paddy and Majella will smile and proclaim "its great", I love having my picture taken, and after all "I have nothing to hide".

You must have been hiding under a rock for the couple of weeks :rolleyes:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055349461&highlight=national+id

barnacle

Will Yore Ma be getting one?

Kernel

barnacle wrote: »

Will Yore Ma be getting one?

That I can't answer, but I know your ma will be. :cool:

OPENROAD

DUMBOBLONDE wrote: »

Just like the 7 years of degrading searches at Dublin airport,

eh

One-Day-Juande

It's an old argument but the people who will be most affected by ID cards are those that have something to hide.

I worked in an off license for a good while and we had a very strict policy on ID. We'd tell everybody no ID no service. Most people would accept this naturally getting a bit pissed of having to go home etc.

The only people we had any real hassle from was the same scumbags who would turn up and try and make out they had shown it last week which they hadn't. We were 99 per cent certain that they were over 18 but no proof. They were local and it would have been no bother for them to get something.

I was confused about this until my manager pointed out that they didn't any ID on them in case they got picked up by the police and it all made sense then.

I mean what does the average person have to worry about being identified by the police?

hellbent

Can you people not see beyond the "ID card good, dissenters obviously have something to hide" train of thought? It's not the ID element that's the problem, but the intent to cram loads of private data about the holder onto it, eventually.

It's about the relative ease to hack into 'restricted' parts of the RFID chip - demonstated and documented already.

It's about how you can be 'detected' and have the card info read at relatively remote distances, over 100 meters afaik, with latest active RFID chips, and by people who don't simply want to know who you are.

Most of all, it's about the possibility of serious fines being imposed for not carrying your card, at all times. I think its a lousy idea, and unnecessary even in today's world, and its being done simply because it can be, not for a good enough reason.

Dogster

whiskeyman wrote: »

Brennan is obviously still taking an active part in this from his grave...


Article from The Sunday Times August 14, 2005


:pac:

Hi Whiskeyman well the man is dead, so he is not going to be in a position to argue with you so that sounds like a cheap shot to me. I would not mind if you could provide some substance to your remarks but I can't see that you have.

Best and Warm Regards
Adrian Wainer

javaboy

hellbent wrote: »

Can you people not see beyond the "ID card good, dissenters obviously have something to hide" train of thought? It's not the ID element that's the problem, but the intent to cram loads of private data about the holder onto it, eventually.

It's about the relative ease to hack into 'restricted' parts of the RFID chip - demonstated and documented already.

It's about how you can be 'detected' and have the card info read at relatively remote distances, over 100 meters afaik, with latest active RFID chips, and by people who don't simply want to know who you are.

Can I just clarify something here? Typically a card like this will just contain a unique identifier, possibly your PPSN but maybe not. When it is being read by a bank or whatever, a machine reads that number and looks it up in a database and retrieves only the info that that bank is authorised to read.

If a particular authority is not privy to certain info now, they still won't be privy to it after.

So if some criminal scans your card from afar, they can only get personal info about you from that if they otherwise have access to the database. And if they have access when they shouldn't then we've got bigger problems.

They will not be putting all your info on the card. It doesn't make any sense to do it that way.

Most of all, it's about the possibility of serious fines being imposed for not carrying your card, at all times.

That's probably the only good reason I can see to oppose this but is this actually part of the proposal?

javaboy

Dogster wrote: »

Hi Whiskeyman well the man is dead, so he is not going to be in a position to argue with you so that sounds like a cheap shot to me. I would not mind if you could provide some substance to your remarks but I can't see that you have.

Best and Warm Regards
Adrian Wainer

He wasn't taking a shot at Brennan. He was pointing out to the OP that the article he was referencing was 3 years old and not a new development.

Dogster

Just sounds like another silly and potentially dangerous idea following from the e-voteing machines fiasco. Like I would not have any problem with having a photograph on various cards which do not now carry a photo, it is the idea of a lot of info being combined on one card and possibility to use it as a vehicle for introducing id cards by stealth that is the issue.

Best and Warm Regards
Adrian Wainer

Dogster

javaboy wrote: »

He wasn't taking a shot at Brennan. He was pointing out to the OP that the article he was referencing was 3 years old and not a new development.

Fair enough, my apology to Whiskeyman for my mistake and thanks Javaboy for going to the trouble of explaining Whiskeyman's point, appreciated.

Best and Warm Regards
Adrian Wainer

Guy:Incognito

Off to the Run_To_Da_Hills craziness forum with you OP.

hellbent

javaboy wrote: »

Typically a card like this will just contain a unique identifier, possibly your PPSN but maybe not. When it is being read by a bank or whatever, a machine reads that number and looks it up in a database and retrieves only the info that that bank is authorised to read.

f a particular authority is not privy to certain info now, they still won't be privy to it after.

I realise that if the Govt opt for a passive RFID, with no battery included, that the chip will only contain a reference number, to be used as you describe. But, should they choose the active type, (and why wouldn't they, since its far superior, and has several storage areas contained within it), then it seems to me that some additional data, encrypted to be sure, will be inserted into these areas. This would allow authorised readers, which crucially might not have a current link to the main database due to being remote from a link, access to some relevant data. e.g. ambulance crews checking for blood type/ medical history etc.

That's one example only. Would you not agree that a card with such possibilities would not remain unfilled with data for very long?

javaboy

hellbent wrote: »

I realise that if the Govt opt for a passive RFID, with no battery included, that the chip will only contain a reference number, to be used as you describe. But, should they choose the active type, (and why wouldn't they, since its far superior, and has several storage areas contained within it), then it seems to me that some additional data, encrypted to be sure, will be inserted into these areas. This would allow authorised readers, which crucially might not have a current link to the main database due to being remote from a link, access to some relevant data. e.g. ambulance crews checking for blood type/ medical history etc.

That's one example only. Would you not agree that a card with such possibilities would not remain unfilled with data for very long?

If it was optional to carry and passive and only contained a reference number would you be opposed?

If it was mandatory to carry and only contained a reference no.?

If it was optional and contained a ref. no. and essential medical data would you be opposed?

If it was mandatory to carry and included medical data?


To answer your question, I can't see them putting anything more interesting than blood type and allergies on it really and imo that can't really be a bad thing.

hellbent

javaboy wrote: »

If it was optional to carry and passive and only contained a reference number would you be opposed?

If it was mandatory to carry and only contained a reference no.?

If it was optional and contained a ref. no. and essential medical data would you be opposed?

If it was mandatory to carry and included medical data?

Once it was optional to carry, and had no 'sensitive' information on it, I'd have no problem whatsoever with the cards. I simply don't believe that such options will be given on the introduction of these cards. I hope otherwise, but am not practising holding my breath.

Dogster

I would be wary of this whole Id thing, until the European Union has made plain what its position on cannibalism is.

Despite the country's decline into dictatorship, France remained a supporter of Bokassa. French president Valéry Giscard d'Estaing was a friend and loyal supporter of the emperor, and supplied the regime with much financial and military backing. In exchange, Bokassa frequently took d'Estaing on hunting trips in Africa and supplied France with uranium, a mineral which was vital for France's nuclear weapons program. As the years went on however, the French media grew increasingly critical of d'Estaing's cosy relationship with Bokassa, particularly after it was revealed the emperor had been giving the president frequent "gifts" of diamonds.
By January 1979, French support for Bokassa had all but eroded after riots in Bangui led to a massacre of civilians. On April 17-19 a number of schoolchildren were arrested after they had protested against wearing the expensive, government required school uniforms. Around 100 were killed. It was claimed that Bokassa had participated in the killings and even that he had eaten some of the bodies. Former President David Dacko was able to gain French support and lead a successful coup using French troops while Bokassa was absent in Libya on September 20, 1979.

http://www.dictatorofthemonth.com/Bokassa/Jan2003BokassaEN.htm

EU Constitution author says referendums can be ignored

Future referendums will be ignored whether they are held in Ireland or elsewhere, Valéry Giscard d'Estaing, the architect of the European Union Constitution said.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/2200026/EU-Constitution-author-says-referendums-can-be-ignored.html

Best and Warm Regards
Adrian Wainer

javaboy

hellbent wrote: »

Once it was optional to carry, and had no 'sensitive' information on it, I'd have no problem whatsoever with the cards. I simply don't believe that such options will be given on the introduction of these cards. I hope otherwise, but am not practising holding my breath.

Personally, I can't see a law requiring you to carry it at all times being introduced except maybe while driving in lieu of the current stupid sized licence.

Also I doubt an active system will be used. It's more expensive, more complex and more prone to failure than a passive system. There's no real benefit in an active RFID system that I can see.

javaboy

Dogster wrote: »

EU Constitution author says referendums can be ignored

Future referendums will be ignored whether they are held in Ireland or elsewhere, Valéry Giscard d'Estaing, the architect of the European Union Constitution said.

That's just plain untrue. D'Estaing made a comment in French AFAIK which was poorly translated and taken out of context it does sound bad.

But the above quote is a deliberate misquote to serve a particular agenda. You might want to reconsider your sources.

Black Swan

FAIL (safe)

RFID? Naaaaaaaaa, they wouldn't do like the Bushy administration did with US passports would they? (embedded chips)

There was an article in WIRED magazine about a hacker/cracker that sat in a Sacramento school district parking lot with an RFID reader and was able to access the ID info of children with such chips embedded in their student ID cards. Let's see... name, address, phone, age, grade, medical, persons to contact in case of emergency, etc., etc. Of course no one in the school administration thought of the potential for ID theft (or kidnapping), except the angry protesting parents that forced the school to eliminate the chips.

Oooooo, looky here! This one says that they are willing to donate their kidney if in a fatal accident. How about if we take it early while it's still fresh?

Encrypted? Piece of cake! Just think what's been in the news lately in Ireland and the USA about hackers cracking passwords for debit cards? (Bank of America in USA... one of the biggest)

Run_to_da_hills

hellbent wrote: »

Once it was optional to carry, and had no 'sensitive' information on it, I'd have no problem whatsoever with the cards. I simply don't believe that such options will be given on the introduction of these cards. I hope otherwise, but am not practising holding my breath.

The National ID card will be imposed by stealth in this country, ie it will be introduced first to those on the dole and old ones entitled to free travell, In other words it will work in all the touch pad portals of any Luas, Dart or bus.

Eventually the exact same card will subtly creep into being a driving license, student ID, manditory drink ID card to purchase beer and enter a pub, Photo ID card for entering a concert or football match to stop touting, making a tax claim, FAS training ID card, travel card to the UK etc etc.

The card will be so convenient that it will be just as important to have with you as having a mobile phone is to day. When either the state or the European Union make this card cumpulsory to carry people will then think nothing of it because they will be so used to carrying it on them anyway. In fact a day will come when people will feel totally lost without it.

javaboy

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

The National ID card will be imposed by stealth in this country, ie it will be introduced first to those on the dole and old ones entitled to free travell, In other words it will work in all the portals of any tram, dart or bus.

There not doing a great job on the old stealth if you managed to find out are they?

Eventually the same card will subtly creep into being a driving license, student ID, manditory drink ID card to purchase beer and enter a pub, Photo ID card for entering a concert or football match to stop touting, making a tax claim, FAS training ID card, travel card to the UK etc etc.

The card will be so convenient that it will be just as important to have with you as having a mobile phone is to day.

Sounds pretty handy. I'm sold. I'll only have to carry one card instead of about 10 and a flimsy, stupidly big driver's licence? Can't wait.

hellbent

There's not much point in introducing this type of ID card UNLESS it's mandatory to carry it.
In the normal world, we all know when we need to bring ID with us - youngsters into pubs, customers into banks, etc. This card is required, similarly to the British requirement, for spot checks/ terrorism deterrent, as well as for the run-of-the-mill stuff (that's not "run-to-da-hills") surely.

Oh, it'll be mandatory all right.

Dogster

javaboy wrote: »

That's just plain untrue. D'Estaing made a comment in French AFAIK which was poorly translated and taken out of context it does sound bad.

But the above quote is a deliberate misquote to serve a particular agenda. You might want to reconsider your sources.

You might well be right in fact you probably are right, and if it was somebody other than citoyen Giscard I would edit the posting after what you told me but such is my level of respect for the French political class I would say hard luck to them and really my primary goal was not to draw attention to what Giscard may or may not have said about the Constitution but that he had responsibility for it and that the Lisbon treaty is just a reheated version of it. No personal criticism intended and thanx for the comment Javaboy.

Best and Warm Regards
Adrian Wainer

Marcus.Aurelius

RTDH, what exactly are you doing day to day that you don't want the govt to know your travelling arrangements?

Let's face it, they already know how much you earn, how much you travel (passport scans as you move around), and what HSE public services you use.

Just because it's more centralised doesn't mean they were not able to access your data previously. I for one would welcome anything that gets our third world state to move along more smoothly.

javaboy

Joker wrote: »

RTDH, what exactly are you doing day to day that you don't want the govt to know your travelling arrangements?

Let's face it, they already know how much you earn, how much you travel (passport scans as you move around), and what HSE public services you use.

Just because it's more centralised doesn't mean they were not able to access your data previously. I for one would welcome anything that gets our third world state to move along more smoothly.

+1. Centralising the data only makes it easier for the insitutions of the state to do their jobs especially Gardai. Anyone who could access your data before will be able to access it after and vice versa.

Now if people were to come on here complaining that they think the government will screw this up somehow and probably accidentally dispose of a hard disk backup of the entire database in a skip....... they might have a point. But in principle, there's not really much wrong with this idea as long as it's not mandatory to carry it where you have no actual need to use it.

Run_to_da_hills

javaboy wrote: »

There not doing a great job on the old stealth if you managed to find out are they? .

javaboy wrote: »

Sounds pretty handy. I'm sold. I'll only have to carry one card instead of about 10 and a flimsy, stupidly big driver's licence? Can't wait.

too many eggs in the one basket is not a good idea, IE if you loose the one you loose the whole lot. (Unless its implanted )

The Irish driving license is planned obsolence and designed to "fall apart". I go through at least one every two years after they turn to pulp in my bike jacket with Irish weather. People here will jump at the idea of having a rigid photo credit card license,