A very delicate issue that I have no idea how to deal with

LegacyUser

Just to give you a bit of back ground:
Few days ago a made post asking for help on how to deal with my girl friend who has a very low self esteem issue.
Basically i said that she was very obliging all the time towards all her friends and she does not say no often because she is afraid of disappointing those around her.
As you can imagine it’s very easy to take advantage of some one like that, and I believe no matter who you are, no matter how close you are to that person, every one will take advantage of you eventually if they think they can and that there will be no consequences.
I also said that I am always aware of the fact that she is very delicate and this is constantly on my mind,so when we argue or when things go bad between us,I often have to worry about her and how this will impact her and having to spend this energy eventually gets to me,so from time to time I go feck it,I switch off and will be totally selfish and this usually leads to us breaking up.
We have been going out 5 years and I love her to bits,I can not imagine my self with any one else really that would be as good for me.

We had another fight about 2 moths ago and we broke up.
Seen as this is a delicate issue,i have no idea how to deal with it now.
I mean I told her that I think she does not respect her self as much as she should and that she is too obliging towards her mates,and often when she wants to actually say feck off to some one,she instead puts on a smile and will say nothing.

I told her all of this because I thought I had no otherway but to be honest with her.
I mean I want us to work out more than anything else but if that were to happen i thought we needed to address this other wise this will happen again and again.
Now as you can imagine ,it’s not very nice hearing some one telling you that you have no self respect ,or you let ppl take advantage of you etc so this does not do her confidence any good either.
She knows I love her but she thinks I don’t love her as she is and I want to change her to what I think she should be.
This could not be further from the truth though, I love her to bits just as she is,however I know I can not have a future with her like this.
Basically I can see it in her ,that her being too obliging hurts her(for example she has this friend who can be a bitch some times and we often talk about how much of a bitch she is but she has never once talked back at her like she should)and she gets annoyed about it, and seeing her hurt like that destroys me.
I could not care less what or how she deals with other ppl as long as she was happy about it her self and she was at ease with her self, but I can see that’s not the case and that’s what kills me.
Now every time I try to talk to her,it looks like im just causing more pain for her,and I hate that but I do want to make this work and up until now I thought if I told her what the problem is then we could work on how we could sort it out but me telling her the problem is actually causing the problem to get worse.
Now I have no one to talk to about this,I was wondering if I should talk to her friends or sister but I don’t know whether i have the right to do that or not.
Basically I don’t want to go to people that know her and tell them “oh,the problem is that she has low self confidence “ because I don’t think that’s right.
She has a younger sister that is very close to her and I was thinking of talking to her,but then I thought maybe she would rather us breaking up than her little sister actually hearing this stuff from me!

I thought maybe I should talk to my sister in law who knows her and who could give me a womens perspective on this and also an Irish perspective(im not irish) but the same thing again as I don’t want people who know her to look at her differently.
So im really stuck,I hate to just call it quits,as I don’t think I have done everything I can yet to sort this out but I have no idea what I should be doing now either.
I would really appreciate any help at all

tobiesheba

I think your GF is right - you do want her to change. I understand that you don't want her to be taken advantage of but at the end of the day it's her choice. I get the impression that you've told her before in the past that she's being used by friends and she's the same.

Maybe it's her good nature that you fell in love with but just don't realise it.

I wouldn't advise talking to her sister or sister-in-law because think how she'd feel when she'd find out. Which she would without a doubt.

I think if you want to continue in a relationship with her you just have to accept her for who she is.

Maybe her friends and family tell her she's too soft on you for going back to you after breaking up.

MagicMarker

She sounds like a complete head wrecking drama queen tbh...

Women with no balls (metaphorically speaking:)) = huge turn off.

So, what's the story??? It's been two months since you broke up, are you still broken up? If so then why are you even asking here? You're not in a relationship with her? Move on and forget about it.

You can't make her change, only she can do that.

RedXIV

Am with tobiesheba, you may not realise it but you are changing her if you continue this. Plenty of people give out about others behind their backs, the majority of people do, and they will appear to change these views when the person in question is in front of them and regardless of what is said behind closed doors, she stays the same. It might be better to think that instead of this girl refusing to stand up for herself, she is refusing to give up that generous giving streak she has?

If she's constantly asked by other people to do stuff, and she's still doing it AND able to live a life, then she has been physically able to carry out what was asked. Even if she would prefer not to, she could. So take from that, a person who has spare time willing to devote it to anyone who asks of it. That is not a bad thing. And you shouldn't feel compelled to change her for it. If all she wanted was to give out a bit here and there, give out with her. she'd acknowledge and enjoy the support without having something reprimand her for trying to be helpful.

I wouldn't put up with someone trying to stop me going out of my way to help others and i'd like to think i wouldn't stop anyone else doing the same. Maybe you've been looking at this the wrong way? just something to consider....

MagicMarker

RedXIV wrote: »

I wouldn't put up with someone trying to stop me going out of my way to help others and i'd like to think i wouldn't stop anyone else doing the same. Maybe you've been looking at this the wrong way? just something to consider....

The impression i'm getting from the OP is that the girl doesn't actually want to do some of the things she does. That she would prefer to say no but just can't.

I think in this kind of scenario, the OP is only trying to what's best for his GF. I've been in the situation myself where a girlfriend is letting someone walk all over them and it just frustrates me to pieces that they allow it, when i KNOW they're unhappy with it. So i can see where the OP is coming from.

Faith

You do want her to change. You want her to be like you think she should be.

You voiced your concerns once, that was enough. She is aware of how you feel. If she wants to change, she will. You'll just annoy and upset her by continuing to criticise her.

LegacyUser

first of all thanks for all the replys and i do appreciate it.
But just I think some of you have got this wrong.
She is not obliging because she likes to be.(well she is some times but not all the time).
It’s like when a bully comes up to you in school and asks you for your lunch money,some people give him the money but it’s not because they want to ,or they enjoy it…
It’s because they are scared of the consequence of saying no.
It’s the same with her.

Im not trying to stop any one being nice,or this and that…
What im trying to do is help her achieve what I know she would like to be able to do.

Some one said, maybe they like doing this and being this way and so what if they give out from time to time, but it’s not the case.
The only reason why she gives out is because it annoys her and bothers her.
As I said in my original post,if she was at ease with her self then I could not care less how she is with other people.

Also some one said that if she has been like this all her life and was able to live her life maybe she should continue to do so but I strongly disagree with this.
Everyone has a threshold and a breaking point, they can only take so much and eventually all this burden has to come out some how.
She is young now but even now I can see the impact it has on her. the whole point of this post is that, I am trying to change this because of the impact this has on our relationship.

TomMc

There is a saying along the lines that humility is not about devaluing yourself but valuing others. This girl obviously has an obliging nature which is commendable. Yes it may be looking for approval but again more noble than telling someone to f-off. It will be up to her to discern between people taking liberties and just been her own usual helpful self.

And from the people I know that I would regard as having low self-esteem, they cannot even help themselves never mind others. These types tend to want everything done for them and think of no one but themselves.

The last thing this girl needs is someone trying to fix them. Fix yourself first, that will be a lifetimes work and achievement. To want to change another to suit yourself, rather than encouraging them so as to bring out the best in them, is ignorance of your own self.

LegacyUser

TomMc wrote: »

There is a saying along the lines that humility is not about devaluing yourself but valuing others. This girl obviously has an obliging nature which is commendable. Yes it may be looking for approval but again more noble than telling someone to f-off. It will be up to her to discern between people taking liberties and just been her own usual helpful self.

And from the people I know that I would regard as having low self-esteem, they cannot even help themselves never mind others. These types tend to want everything done for them and think of no one but themselves.

The last thing this girl needs is someone trying to fix them. Fix yourself first, that will be a lifetimes work and achievement. To want to change another to suit yourself, rather than encouraging them so as to bring out the best in them, is ignorance of your own self.

I feel like im arguing here and I am but im hoping to actually learn something from this .
I’m going to state my opinion here as you did.

There is also a saying that says it’s the thought that counts.
To me what makes something noble is the thought behind the act and not really the act.
To me there is nothing noble about saying yes, when you really want to say no and you think you should say no, and you deserve to say no but are scared that if you say no they may no approve and look at you differently.

It’s like saying there is something noble about a criminal who has been in jail for 40 years and has not committed a crime while he was in jail.
To me there is nothing noble about it because this person did not have a choice to do commit a crime.
It’s the same with her. she does not chose to do be obliging ,to her she has no choice.
Now don’t get me wrong this girl really does have a good heart.
But there is nothing noble to me about being kind out of weakness.

Chips Lovell

You said you broke up with her two months ago. Are you still broken up?

LegacyUser

el tonto wrote: »

You said you broke up with her two months ago. Are you still broken up?

yeah,but we are trying to sort it out.
i have seen her 2ice since nearly 3months ago.

we didnt talk for a good while at all since maybe about a week ago that we decided to work thinks out and now im facing this dilema

TomMc

OP, you may want what is best for her but you are going about it the wrong way or at least with too much zeal. Read your posts again, what I perceive is that you are spending alot of time analysing or second guessing your girlfriend and everything she does. And wanting to fix her to be the way you want her to be, not just for her own good but also so her current attitudes & patterns of behaviour doesn't reflect negatively on you (in the eyes of others).

Praise generously, criticize cautiously otherwise it will breed resentment if you persist with the latter.

Since you like analogies: I have a friend who is a glorified alcoholic/has a very unhealthy dependency on same, but I'm wasting my time with pep talks trying to get them to realise it and see sense (as in denial). They themselves have to become AWARE of it in their own heads before they will admit it to themselves and see things as they really are, before they will take the necessary action. If your girlfriend constantly obliges parasitic people (even gobsh1tes) who use her as a convenience and cannot/will not stand up for herself, she herself will ultimately get sick of it down the line and one day snap out of it. We are creatures of habit, but there comes a point when enough is enough. It is in her hands and only her hands. We are all self-made. In the meantime encourage her, but don't nag as I would much prefer a girl with a selfless nature than a selfish one. Tweaking not fixing is all that is required.

LegacyUser

Thanks dude.
I don’t know you but I do respect what you are saying even though I may disagree with some of it.
If I have painted my self as saint here let me assure you that is not the case, far from it.
Of everything you said this line is where I have the most problem with .
” And wanting to fix her to be the way you want her to be, not just for her own good but also so her current attitudes & patterns of behaviour doesn't reflect negatively on you (in the eyes of others).”

I honestly could not care less what others think of me or my relationship with her.
Im not from Ireland so I don’t even know that many people here to care about what they think.
I’m a very independent but reasonable person.i listen to people and take opinions from people who I respect .some I agree with and some don’t but if I do it’s because it makes sense to me not just because it’s what some one else has said.

I do agree with you that I have gone about it the wrong way .
I have mentioned in my posts before that if she was happy with the way she was I would have absolutely no problem with it.
I believe that as long as you are happy and at ease with who you are then it’s all good.
I don’t expect her to change for me and I don’t want to change for me .
I suppose I do want her to change though cuz i believe it’s the only way she will be happy with her self and then we will be happy.

I hear what you saying about preferring your partner to be selfless than selfish.
To be perfectly honest with you that’s what I thought too.
And believe me it’s much easier for me to look the other way and im very tempted to do so.after all her being that way has no direct impact on me right?
Well no really, she is hurting over being like this and when I see her hurt like that it kills me.
When I see her friend saying something just to piss her off and annoy her knowing full well that she will read too much into it and what kind of impact it will have on her,it focken kills me man.

I can’t just stand by and watch other people do this to her and say nothing.
I don’t say anything until she comes to me and says that this and that happened and she is upset.

What im i suppose to do then?
i talk to her and say she does not need to take that and she should say something but she never will.
What she does instead is that next time she will not come to me until she cant take it anymore.
All the while I know exactly what is going on.
It’s soul destroying man.

Burial

CallMeJack wrote: »

Just to give you a bit of back ground:
Few days ago a made post asking for help on how to deal with my girl friend who has a very low self esteem issue.
Basically i said that she was very obliging all the time towards all her friends and she does not say no often because she is afraid of disappointing those around her.
As you can imagine it’s very easy to take advantage of some one like that, and I believe no matter who you are, no matter how close you are to that person, every one will take advantage of you eventually if they think they can and that there will be no consequences.
I also said that I am always aware of the fact that she is very delicate and this is constantly on my mind,so when we argue or when things go bad between us,I often have to worry about her and how this will impact her and having to spend this energy eventually gets to me,so from time to time I go feck it,I switch off and will be totally selfish and this usually leads to us breaking up.
We have been going out 5 years and I love her to bits,I can not imagine my self with any one else really that would be as good for me.

We had another fight about 2 moths ago and we broke up.
Seen as this is a delicate issue,i have no idea how to deal with it now.
I mean I told her that I think she does not respect her self as much as she should and that she is too obliging towards her mates,and often when she wants to actually say feck off to some one,she instead puts on a smile and will say nothing.

I told her all of this because I thought I had no otherway but to be honest with her.
I mean I want us to work out more than anything else but if that were to happen i thought we needed to address this other wise this will happen again and again.
Now as you can imagine ,it’s not very nice hearing some one telling you that you have no self respect ,or you let ppl take advantage of you etc so this does not do her confidence any good either.
She knows I love her but she thinks I don’t love her as she is and I want to change her to what I think she should be.
This could not be further from the truth though, I love her to bits just as she is,however I know I can not have a future with her like this.
Basically I can see it in her ,that her being too obliging hurts her(for example she has this friend who can be a bitch some times and we often talk about how much of a bitch she is but she has never once talked back at her like she should)and she gets annoyed about it, and seeing her hurt like that destroys me.
I could not care less what or how she deals with other ppl as long as she was happy about it her self and she was at ease with her self, but I can see that’s not the case and that’s what kills me.
Now every time I try to talk to her,it looks like im just causing more pain for her,and I hate that but I do want to make this work and up until now I thought if I told her what the problem is then we could work on how we could sort it out but me telling her the problem is actually causing the problem to get worse.
Now I have no one to talk to about this,I was wondering if I should talk to her friends or sister but I don’t know whether i have the right to do that or not.
Basically I don’t want to go to people that know her and tell them “oh,the problem is that she has low self confidence “ because I don’t think that’s right.
She has a younger sister that is very close to her and I was thinking of talking to her,but then I thought maybe she would rather us breaking up than her little sister actually hearing this stuff from me!

I thought maybe I should talk to my sister in law who knows her and who could give me a womens perspective on this and also an Irish perspective(im not irish) but the same thing again as I don’t want people who know her to look at her differently.
So im really stuck,I hate to just call it quits,as I don’t think I have done everything I can yet to sort this out but I have no idea what I should be doing now either.
I would really appreciate any help at all

Your GF should learn to say no. Why do things you don't want to do?? Her friends aren't out to get her approval and she should realise that. She can say no and still be friends. If they can't accept no they're not friends. I was going to include a story about how much I was like your GF. Once I started doing things for myself and not for others, life was turning out a hell of alot better. Make it clear to your GF that your not trying to change her, but if she doesn't enjoy something, then she shouldn't do it. Ask her, if person X she doesn't know, asked her for the same thing would she say yes? This is no different.

RedXIV wrote:

Am with tobiesheba, you may not realise it but you are changing her if you continue this. Plenty of people give out about others behind their backs, the majority of people do, and they will appear to change these views when the person in question is in front of them and regardless of what is said behind closed doors, she stays the same. It might be better to think that instead of this girl refusing to stand up for herself, she is refusing to give up that generous giving streak she has?

If she's constantly asked by other people to do stuff, and she's still doing it AND able to live a life, then she has been physically able to carry out what was asked. Even if she would prefer not to, she could. So take from that, a person who has spare time willing to devote it to anyone who asks of it. That is not a bad thing. And you shouldn't feel compelled to change her for it. If all she wanted was to give out a bit here and there, give out with her. she'd acknowledge and enjoy the support without having something reprimand her for trying to be helpful.

I wouldn't put up with someone trying to stop me going out of my way to help others and i'd like to think i wouldn't stop anyone else doing the same. Maybe you've been looking at this the wrong way? just something to consider....

I have to disagree. I was similar to the OP GF, except I'm the male version. I only realised no-one remembers the good, just the bad. I had to learn this all on my own and I'm such a better person having gotten this. I look back on my life for a year and I tried to remember the good I did, or the good people did for me. (Obvious good things you'd remember, like no money stuck in the Isle of Man and your mate rescues you (that didnt happen) vs lift into town) I couldn't remember the acts of kindness people did for me or me to them. I don't think I'm alone with this. I don't use people, but I had people use me. (Family member not friends, go figure.) At the end of the day, its no-one's approval your looking for except your own. After learning to say no I'm a much happier person. I approve of myself more-so than the old me.

I'm not reading analogies or that like too irrelevant I feel. Bottom line. Tell her, once you told her, it's upto her not you. When she moans about doing things, just tell her, your not talking about it. Say she can't moan and bitch to you about something you told her she shouldn't do. (If that makes sense)

*NOTE*

If anyone cares it's one of my family members who opened my eyes. I said I couldn't do something because I genuienly couldn't do it and I was told, "I prefer the younger you, back then I could make him do anything for me." I did it out of love, and this is what they thought. Hearing it from family members does open your eyes alot. Having said that, don't tell the GF's sister.

tbh

has your ex actually told you that she wants to say no more, or are you just assuming?

ali.c

From everything you have posted it sounds like your gf needs help to develop some assertiveness. Basically she needs to understand that saying "no" to people doesnt make her a bad person. Also that people do tend to value your help/assistance more when its genuinely given.

From personal experience it is something I struggled with (and if i am honest still do) but instead of half doing stuff and feeling resentful while doing it, now if a family member/friend needs something and I am willing to help I set aside the required amount of time to do it. This means that I am not under pressure and enjoy whatever the task is alot more. I dont know if that makes sense, but I am a lot happier as a result.

Ultimately though people will respect you alot more if you have boundaries and even value a smaller contribution more if it is willing given. There are loads of books available of these type of techinques perhaps to begin with you could point her towards one of those.

You cant do it for her though it is something she has to want to do for herself.

Giggidy

RedXIV wrote: »

Am with tobiesheba, you may not realise it but you are changing her if you continue this. Plenty of people give out about others behind their backs, the majority of people do, and they will appear to change these views when the person in question is in front of them and regardless of what is said behind closed doors, she stays the same. It might be better to think that instead of this girl refusing to stand up for herself, she is refusing to give up that generous giving streak she has?

If she's constantly asked by other people to do stuff, and she's still doing it AND able to live a life, then she has been physically able to carry out what was asked. Even if she would prefer not to, she could. So take from that, a person who has spare time willing to devote it to anyone who asks of it. That is not a bad thing. And you shouldn't feel compelled to change her for it. If all she wanted was to give out a bit here and there, give out with her. she'd acknowledge and enjoy the support without having something reprimand her for trying to be helpful.

I wouldn't put up with someone trying to stop me going out of my way to help others and i'd like to think i wouldn't stop anyone else doing the same. Maybe you've been looking at this the wrong way? just something to consider....

I am sorry but disagree, he is trying to change her in aspect to improve herself an her life, he wants more for her for her to be better, I don't think you could ask much more of some who loves you. Think, who are the 2 people in the world the love you more then anyone else....you parents, especially your mother. They always wants whats best for you and will tell what you need to hear, exactly what he has done. She obviously has problems with saying no to people which I agree is confidence related, not so much respect. You told her the wrong way tho, you told her during a fight, you should of told her at calmer time. To help her have her say no to you maybe by asking her to do something and have her say no etc.

RedXIV

Giggidy wrote: »

I am sorry but disagree,

Don't be sorry, your opinion is equally valid.

Giggidy wrote: »

he is trying to change her in aspect to improve herself an her life, he wants more for her for her to be better, I don't think you could ask much more of some who loves you. Think, who are the 2 people in the world the love you more then anyone else....you parents, especially your mother. They always wants whats best for you and will tell what you need to hear, exactly what he has done. She obviously has problems with saying no to people which I agree is confidence related, not so much respect. You told her the wrong way tho, you told her during a fight, you should of told her at calmer time. To help her have her say no to you maybe by asking her to do something and have her say no etc.

It's possible your right, but maybe i'm looking at this from a different angle. Take myself for example. If anyone asked me a favour, if it was physically possible, i'd do it. now in accordance to some people here, that makes me less of a person, lacking in confidence and self respect. But I argue that there would be few enough people out there that would match me for personal confidence. It's the way i am. I'm a firm believer in positive thinking and as a starting point i believe that starts with me.

But why should I turn away someone who asked me for a favour? I'm not religious but i reckon the bible is on to something when they say "treat others as you would have them treat you", and should you decide you simply don't feel like helping someone out, what happens when you need them in the future?

I'm not saying that the reason she should be obligating is in case she needs favours in the future but if she doesn't want to disappoint people, she doesn't want to disappoint people. why change that aspect of her? Thats not a bad thing.

To Burial, I'd be very suprised if people don't remember the good with the bad. You may not be able to count specific instances but you can always tell if someone would help or not. Consider for a second your phrase "After learning to say no I'm a much happier person. I approve of myself more-so than the old me. " Why would you approve of denying help to someone else? Maybe your situation was different but all i can see from here is you are happier now that you don't feel like going out of your way for people. I promise i'm not having a go at anyone but i think this may be taken out of proportion here, i'm not going to say everytime i've helped someone it hasn't been any hassle or it hasn't made my life a bit more difficult. I was asked at my last set of college exams to help people pass a subject they were particurally bad in. as a result, my own study got neglected. But they passed. And it wasn't until 3 months later i got an email saying thank you but it still made it all seem worthwhile to me.

People who will help another without a thought may be regarded as doormats, they may be regarded as low self esteem, but if you're down on your luck and you need a favour, i bet they are the first you turn to

LegacyUser

RedXIV wrote: »

Don't be sorry, your opinion is equally valid.



It's possible your right, but maybe i'm looking at this from a different angle. Take myself for example. If anyone asked me a favour, if it was physically possible, i'd do it. now in accordance to some people here, that makes me less of a person, lacking in confidence and self respect. But I argue that there would be few enough people out there that would match me for personal confidence. It's the way i am. I'm a firm believer in positive thinking and as a starting point i believe that starts with me.

But why should I turn away someone who asked me for a favour? I'm not religious but i reckon the bible is on to something when they say "treat others as you would have them treat you", and should you decide you simply don't feel like helping someone out, what happens when you need them in the future?

I'm not saying that the reason she should be obligating is in case she needs favours in the future but if she doesn't want to disappoint people, she doesn't want to disappoint people. why change that aspect of her? Thats not a bad thing.

To Burial, I'd be very suprised if people don't remember the good with the bad. You may not be able to count specific instances but you can always tell if someone would help or not. Consider for a second your phrase "After learning to say no I'm a much happier person. I approve of myself more-so than the old me. " Why would you approve of denying help to someone else? Maybe your situation was different but all i can see from here is you are happier now that you don't feel like going out of your way for people. I promise i'm not having a go at anyone but i think this may be taken out of proportion here, i'm not going to say everytime i've helped someone it hasn't been any hassle or it hasn't made my life a bit more difficult. I was asked at my last set of college exams to help people pass a subject they were particurally bad in. as a result, my own study got neglected. But they passed. And it wasn't until 3 months later i got an email saying thank you but it still made it all seem worthwhile to me.

People who will help another without a thought may be regarded as doormats, they may be regarded as low self esteem, but if you're down on your luck and you need a favour, i bet they are the first you turn to

i dont think you are quit getting the issue.

as i said before ,im not trying to stop her helping others.

im not trying to turm some one who is very helpfull into some one who is not.

im not trying to change who she is, im trying to help her be who she wants to be.

she helps others not becuase she gets a satisfaction out of it (if that was the case it would be ok cuz then she would be happy) she does it cuz she thinks if she does not ppl will dislike her and basically she is afriad of confrontation.

so even though she feels she is being taken advantage of ,she will not confront them.

does that make sense?

ali.c

RedXIV wrote: »

Don't be sorry, your opinion is equally valid.



It's possible your right, but maybe i'm looking at this from a different angle. Take myself for example. If anyone asked me a favour, if it was physically possible, i'd do it. now in accordance to some people here, that makes me less of a person, lacking in confidence and self respect. But I argue that there would be few enough people out there that would match me for personal confidence. It's the way i am. I'm a firm believer in positive thinking and as a starting point i believe that starts with me.

It really depends on what is physically possible and your definition of really. Honestly when it puts other aspects of your life under pressure or causing stress etc it is not always a good thing to say yes.

But why should I turn away someone who asked me for a favour? I'm not religious but i reckon the bible is on to something when they say "treat others as you would have them treat you", and should you decide you simply don't feel like helping someone out, what happens when you need them in the future?

True, but as I said above it really depends on the circumstances. It not that you simply dont want to help people out it that it is not convenient or the person keeps asking for more and more and more. You do need to be able to say no sorry this is not something I can help you with or alternatively sorry I cant help you with this now but next week I have an evening free and we could do it then. I dont think anyone is advocately saying F off to everything it s more that from the OP description his gf is having problems saying no to anything and that is causing upset.

I'm not saying that the reason she should be obligating is in case she needs favours in the future but if she doesn't want to disappoint people, she doesn't want to disappoint people. why change that aspect of her? Thats not a bad thing.

True but you also need to know when helping others is determential to yourself. Constantly seeking the approval of others is not heathly and should not be the basis of ones self esteem. Also always putting others needs before your own is not good, essentially the better shape you are in the more you have to give and to help others.

Consider for a second your phrase "After learning to say no I'm a much happier person. I approve of myself more-so than the old me. " Why would you approve of denying help to someone else? Maybe your situation was different but all i can see from here is you are happier now that you don't feel like going out of your way for people. I promise i'm not having a go at anyone but i think this may be taken out of proportion here, i'm not going to say everytime i've helped someone it hasn't been any hassle or it hasn't made my life a bit more difficult. I was asked at my last set of college exams to help people pass a subject they were particurally bad in. as a result, my own study got neglected. But they passed. And it wasn't until 3 months later i got an email saying thank you but it still made it all seem worthwhile to me.

Seriously your example there really illustrates my above point, so what if your neglected study resulted in you failing does that mean that you value your class mates grades more than your own. How would you feel if as a result they got a better degree than you? Grateful for a late email saying thank you? I somehow doubt it. During my masters I had no problem sharing resources or helping people where I could but ultimately I had to put my studies first.

People who will help another without a thought may be regarded as doormats, they may be regarded as low self esteem, but if you're down on your luck and you need a favour, i bet they are the first you turn to

Personally I value people who genuinely want to help rather than people are trying to win my approval. You can help people and still be able to say no when necessary, they are not mutally exclusive.

Shinners23

The meek shall inherit the earth - if that's alright with everybody else"

Op, that your girl friends nature. You cannot change her... she will only change when/if she becomes tired of being the "YES" girl for everyone.....

RedXIV

CallMeJack wrote: »

i dont think you are quit getting the issue.

as i said before ,im not trying to stop her helping others.

im not trying to turm some one who is very helpfull into some one who is not.

im not trying to change who she is, im trying to help her be who she wants to be.

she helps others not becuase she gets a satisfaction out of it (if that was the case it would be ok cuz then she would be happy) she does it cuz she thinks if she does not ppl will dislike her and basically she is afriad of confrontation.

so even though she feels she is being taken advantage of ,she will not confront them.

does that make sense?

Ah, in which case, yes, i have the complete wrong end of the stick, my bad