Panasonic Freesat/MPEG4 TVs in Argos

Zaphod

No idea how they compare on prices, but interesting to see Argos "officially" selling Freesat/MPEG4 HDTVs in Ireland.

50 Inch 50PZ81B €2700
42 Inch TH-42PZ81B €1949

watty

Certainly HD projector (36" to 72") and 48" HDTV are both around the €1,800 for anything decent.

Cheaper so called "HDTV" are usually not enough resolution, poor rescaling and/or not big enough.

At 32" certainly there is marginal value to HDTV, and 37" also marginal in decent sized room for HDTV. Forget 1366 x 768 models except for SDTV and game consoles/PCs.

John Dough

Zaphod wrote: »

No idea how they compare on prices, but interesting to see Argos "officially" selling Freesat/MPEG4 HDTVs in Ireland.

50 Inch 50PZ81B €2700
42 Inch TH-42PZ81B €1949

Saw the 42inch Panny in France last week for €2200 so Argos not bad.

JanusGeminius

watty wrote: »

Certainly HD projector (36" to 72") and 48" HDTV are both around the €1,800 for anything decent.

Cheaper so called "HDTV" are usually not enough resolution, poor rescaling and/or not big enough.

At 32" certainly there is marginal value to HDTV, and 37" also marginal in decent sized room for HDTV. Forget 1366 x 768 models except for SDTV and game consoles/PCs.

While that might to true what do you expect people to do? Wait another two or three years? And then if you've waited that long why not another three for OLED? Shouldn't the emphasis be on moving people to the HD standards in the near future. Because if people did what you suggest we'd be 20 years away from complete standards coverage.

watty

I'm suggesting that many people don't need HD at all (we have 30% higher resolution than USA and smaller screens, HDTV largely invented for large screen USA market).

I'm suggesting that most people have better things to do with nearly €2,000. A decent TV is under €300. There are not extra HD programming, and if there was it gives perfect downconverted pictures on a regular TV.

It's not like the difference between a 26" Colour 625 line TV and 14" 405 line Black and white TV.

32" to 37" regular TV can be an excellent picture. Unless you want at least a 50% bigger TV and watch a lot of made for Cinema HD, it's not compelling.

OLED is irrelevent to the issue.

Unlike 625 Colour or Digital TV, No-one needs to have an HDTV unless they really want. Even if all transmissions are HDTV (unlikely even in 20 years), a 1976 RGB SCART input CRT 625 line PAL will still display them.

There is hardly any actual HDTV content worth having apart from Films and some sport. Both of those really need 48" or even 60" screen to get the value of HDTV detail. At 37" in a normal room the difference is marginal. At 48" a 2.35:1 Widescreen film is still not very cinematic.

HDTV is 4 to 5 times the detail. In a typical room with typical Widescreen TV, less than 10% people can see the full detail. Thus if everything else was equal, an HDTV upgrade needs to be about twice the size, or you are really wasting money.

A lot of non-HD content looks stupid in an ordinary room on a 48" to 60" TV (equivalent to 26" to 32" approx). So a Projector that can vary from 36" (or 30") to 72" (or 60") with its zoom lens is a good choice for the next 20 years. We still watch excellent pre 1950s Film (WS only arrived on Film in 1950s in response to Color TV in USA) and will still watch nearly 50 years worth of non-WS, non-HD TV too, in 50 years.

So my educated recomendation from working in Media over 30 years and watching TV & Film for longer is to etheir spend €2000 approx on HDTV now or not bother, revisit decision later.

JanusGeminius

Personally I agree with you, HD doesn't offer the improvement most would have you believe but still in terms of transmission isn't it just a waste of space to be broadcasting in multiple standards? Shouldn't the emphasis not be on the benefits of HD but on having a single standard of broadcast?

I also agree that people have better to do with €2000 but that was never my point to begin with, I'm just not interested in multiple formats being used clogging up space on DTT transmitters and Satellites. Pushing complete coverage of the HD format, seen as the future by many should be the priority even without benefit. Face it, we can't go back, so must push forward and elimate SD within 10-15 years. It can only be done once everone has HD compatible Sets.

watty

You miss the point. You don't need an HD set. Most HD sets won't even receive ANY HD broadcasts.

You just need a low cost HD receiver (Cable, Satellite or Terrestrial). It will downsample the HD for existing TVs. Also the duplication is small as HD signals are huge and about 99% of channels are not HD.

By the time duplication would be a problem an HD TV will still be x5 the price of a regular TV but an HD receiver no extra cost at all, in fact HD receivers could be come the norm within 5 years no matter how many people have HD TVs. The TV viewing (monitor) and TV reception (receiver/decoder) are quite logically becoming separate functions.

Some people mostly play games and watch DVDs. That does not use the tuner feature at all.

Instead of TV coming via aerial socket there are now 4 main incompatible platforms, all of which can connect to a monitor via SCART (SD) or HDMI(SD & HD): Cable, Satellite, Terrestrial and IPTV (DSL, Fibre etc). There is also hybrid IPTV/Broadcast and hybrid Switched video/Broadcast.

There is no way all these get built into a TV.

Also PVR is important, replacing VHS. A PVR needs dual tuners of which ever platform you use. Push VOD needs a custom PVR/Broadcast hybrid.

Combo boxes (Sat + Terrestrial) tend to be more expensive and/or poorer features than separates. You really might have Terrestial + Satellite (no pay TV). Or Cable + Satellite (foreign TV).

A TV with a built in tuner is a dinosaur, especially with changing standards. An 1976 TV could be OK for life of set. Last years Irish "HD Ready" sets with Analogue Tuner are obsolescent now and this years UK "HDTV ready" sets are obsolete next year!

At least the HDMI and/or SCART will work on all TVs with any proper set box. I pity people that got early "so called HDTV" sets based on USA standards of DVI or component video only with no HDMI. Component orignated as a USA/JAPAN alternative to S-Video and Composite for Standard Definition as they never had SCART. HDMI is the only proper HD interconnect.


There is no need to "eliminate" SD. Perhaps a value on migrating from MPEG2 to MPEG4, but payTV is pushing that. Perhaps over the next 5 years all may existing SD TVs will have MPEG4 receivers that probabily do HD.

HD in any case sadly is NOT a single standard:
DVB-s
DVB-s2
DVB-c
DVB-t
DVB-t2
USA 8VSB
Japan different
USA has 4 HD formats/resolutions related to NTSC frame rate and colour space.
Bluray and some TVs can do 24fps HD
Europe two HDTV resolutions related to PAL frame rate and colour space.

Mobile TV is never going to be "HD"!

There are also Professional and Cinema HDTV formats much higher resolution than the domestic maximum of 1080 lines. The lowest of these is getting tested in Japan for consumer use (fine if you want a WHOLE WALL as a screen, otherwise pointless).


HDTV was invented as an Analogue format 1125 line based on USA/Japan 525 line (1080 line visible compared to 480 line visible). The original VGA (640x480) is simply progressive version of NTSC. PAL 625 lines gives 576 visible lines. With square pixels it should be 768, but due to bandwidth constraints imposed by NTSC based design we got the same 720 pixel wide as the USA digital 720x480. HDTV was invented for BIG TVs. You absolutely don't need it for regular sized TVs.

All the back catalogue inculding a majority of films on TV will not be HD.

pa990

I cant find the Freesat Panny in argos.ie (or any tv for that matter), has anyone got the cat no.,

John Dough

pa990 wrote: »

I cant find the Freesat Panny in argos.ie (or any tv for that matter), has anyone got the cat no.,

HHere you go 42" 536/3869 50" 536/4442

pa990

John Dough wrote: »

HHere you go 42" 536/3869 50" 536/4442

OHHH.. its argos UK, i thought Argos.ie were selling them

byte

pa990 wrote: »

OHHH.. its argos UK, i thought Argos.ie were selling them

Argos.ie don't list electronics that carry the PRF levy. I'd have thought they'd have the matter sorted by now, but it seems not.

pa990

byte wrote: »

Argos.ie don't list electronics that carry the PRF levy..

Now i understand.. i'll pick up an Argos Catalog later. I never buy Tv's etc from Atgos.. they usually can be found cheaper elsewhere in town

slegs

Argos in Ireland are generally 30-40% more expensive than UK specialist audio-visual websites for high end televisions. Actually most Irish retailers are 30-40% more expensive than the UK stores. Komplett.ie is the only Irish focussed retailer that seems to offer good prices.

Hissing Sideban

RE: HDTV -

I have a 37" Panasonic plasma, and I think the improvement with the HD from the BBC HD channel is easily noticable (from the Sofa 8-1- ft away) and enjoyable too. ITV HD less impressive usually.
However, I get upset if the colour is set wrong, or (horrror of horrors) if the aspect ratio is wrong or in 'stretched' mode - but I will admit that most people don't seem to care,.So for the majority, I would say HD TV is an irrelevence, but I think it is well worth it

Re the Panasonic MPEG 4 with freesat - i'ts available from PC World Business
PCWB.ie

I am severely tempted to flog my TH37PX80B which I got in April this year and get one, if only to cut down on the remote control cliutter! (I have the TV, Humax Freesat, and MMDS!)

watty

komplett is not Irish at all. Just an Irish portal on their european eShopping system. Hence the lower price


SquashyVision and StretchyVision. People need to get used to black bars.

LarWright

Hissing Sideban wrote: »

I am severely tempted to flog my TH37PX80B which I got in April this year and get one, if only to cut down on the remote control cliutter! (I have the TV, Humax Freesat, and MMDS!)

I know the feeling!
Remote wise I have, Sky+, TV, DVD/Cinema, PS3 Bluray, Humax Freesat HD, 1 for the electric fireplace, and (lazy) 1 for the dimmer on my downlighters. It's ridiculous! I say to my girlfriend "pass the remote" and end up with a lap full of them!!

I think I may invest on one of those fancy programmable LCD all in one jobs!

Re the Freesat service, I'm, at best, semi-pleased with it. The BBC HD channel is good, but not enough content yet. The ITV one is annoying as it's not a dedicated channel and only a "Red Button" service. I suppose it's handy for a second room, or if their is anything good on BBC HD.

Zaphod

slegs wrote: »

Argos in Ireland are generally 30-40% more expensive than UK specialist audio-visual websites for high end televisions.

It looks as though they are quite a bit more expensive than Argos in the UK too.

The 50" Panasonic is £1589.00 on argos.co.uk. Allowing for the 17% vs 21% VAT rates and an exchange rate of 78p/€1
£1589 /1.17 /.78 *1.21 = €2106 in UK compared to €2700 in Ireland

For the 42" £1090 -> €1445 in UK compared to €1949 in Ireland

dhaumi

Zaphod wrote: »

It looks as though they are quite a bit more expensive than Argos in the UK too.

The 50" Panasonic is £1589.00 on argos.co.uk. Allowing for the 17% vs 21% VAT rates and an exchange rate of 78p/€1
£1589 /1.17 /.78 *1.21 = €2106 in UK compared to €2700 in Ireland

For the 42" £1090 -> €1445 in UK compared to €1949 in Ireland

Typical of Rip-off Ireland. Saw the 42" for €1350 in France. You're probably better off buying it in Northern Ireland! Something should be really be done...

byte

Unless things have changed this year, UK Panasonic TV's didn't have VHF tuner.

byrnefm

byte wrote: »

Unless things have changed this year, UK Panasonic TV's didn't have VHF tuner.

I know this was often the case for CRT TVs - is this also the case for flat screens, since many even do SECAM as well as PAL now?

byte

It would dependon the manufacturer. I bought a 42" Panny plasma last year, but had to get the Irish model to have VHF tuner. To get the VHF tuner, I lost the DTT tuner that was on the UK equivalent model. Not that it would've been much use to me. Toshiba was another one, who had differing tuners (or maybe just firmware) between UK and Ireland.

Maybe all their TV's are hyperband now, but be sure to check beforehand.

slegs

watty wrote: »

komplett is not Irish at all. Just an Irish portal on their european eShopping system. Hence the lower price


SquashyVision and StretchyVision. People need to get used to black bars.

Well aware Watty that Komplett are European (German based I believe). But their Irish skin of their portal site is very much an Irish focused business. They partner with GLS in Ireland for logistics and have a customer care number and returns address in Ireland. They also charge the PRF levy. They are an excellent example of what the European open market was supposed to bring us in terms of competition reducing prices. If only we could have more retailers like them we might see an end to ripoff Ireland.