Low power home server

daveharnett

I'm looking to move the hard drives out of my htpc machine at the moment. That means i'm planning to move most my hard drives into a 24/7 box in the study, which i would also like to act as a print server and bittorrent client. The current machine in there is an XPS 710 with an 8800gtx and a qx6700, so power consumption would be a *little* high for 24/7 server work.

So, i'm looking at an icybox nas enclosure at the moment (linky). it does everything I want, but I would like room for more than 2 hard drives, and i'm not sure how good the bittorrent client is.

Does anyone have any experience with this box, or know of any serious competitors

Cuddlesworth

http://elara.ie/products/brandpca.asp?ECatID7=350101&7P2ID=97&Desc7=Tower

First 3 machines

Slap Linux on one, the hard-drives into it, configure Samba and hey presto. A server for 150 Euro with a 3 Year next business day warranty. Who needs NAS box?

daveharnett

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

http://elara.ie/products/brandpca.asp?ECatID7=350101&7P2ID=97&Desc7=Tower

First 3 machines

Slap Linux on one, the hard-drives into it, configure Samba and hey presto. A server for 150 Euro with a 3 Year next business day warranty. Who needs NAS box?

Great prices in fairness. Anyone want to hazard a guess at the idle power draw? Google doesn't want to say.

PogMoThoin

None low power TBH

Cuddlesworth

If they are similar to our work systems then around 130-50 watts would be about right. I'm not completely sure but I think it comes to around 20 Euro a year run 24/7.

Anti

20€ a year? Your having a giraffe yeah ?

Cuddlesworth

I said I wasn't sure. Don't suppose you have a better idea of the cost?

daveharnett

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

I said I wasn't sure. Don't suppose you have a better idea of the cost?

50 watts * 24 hours * 365 days = 438 kilowatt hours per year @ 18 cent per kw/h = €78 euros. That's about the cutoff point which would push me toward the nas box.

Cuddlesworth

I did a test on a similar system in work running a bit torrent client and full load on 1 core. Pulled down 110 watts. Idle was 80-85. So around 150 a year to run. What do would a similar NAS box pull down?

Either way it's hard to find a decent NAS box with a inbuilt bit torrent client. I can't find anything that has more then 1 bay and does that for anything under 250. That Icebox is a good find.

daveharnett

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

I did a test on a similar system in work running a bit torrent client and full load on 1 core. Pulled down 110 watts. Idle was 80-85. So around 150 a year to run. What do would a similar NAS box pull down?

Either way it's hard to find a decent NAS box with a inbuilt bit torrent client. I can't find anything that has more then 1 bay and does that for anything under 250. That Icebox is a good find.

It's hard to get proper info, but one review that tested that particular box for power found ~8 watt idle (with HDs spun down obviously) and ~30 watts active (with one HD spinning, i'd guess. modern 7200rpm HDs are about 18 watts, right?).

Looks like my best option then. To be fair, I can always connect extra Hard drives via the USB ports if needs be.

Edit: Not to come accross as an advertiser, but i've just found some more stuff: http://forum.nas-portal.org
The box supports the installing of 3rd party apps on usb sticks and such.
These clever nerds have come up with a bunch of working apps, including *proper* p2p clients, apps to record web radio and so on.

Wcool

I have 2 servers based on Via C7 mini-itx boards.

1 runs linux + 1 disk = 30 watts
1 runs vista server 2008 + 5 x 500G drives = 50 watts with drives spun down, 90 max

the boards are around 100euro and you can put them in an old atx case
the vista 2008 is a little too much for the via, use linux or XP, but it is low power and it works

it would be possible to configure them without fans as well...

daveharnett

Wcool wrote: »

I have 2 servers based on Via C7 mini-itx boards.

1 runs linux + 1 disk = 30 watts
1 runs vista server 2008 + 5 x 500G drives = 50 watts with drives spun down, 90 max

the boards are around 100euro and you can put them in an old atx case
the vista 2008 is a little too much for the via, use linux or XP, but it is low power and it works

it would be possible to configure them without fans as well...

I certainly like the look of them. Is there a retailer that you could recommend? The usual suspects (dabs, komplett, hwv, ocuk, scan) seem to be a little light on them.

Wcool

I used this crowed:

http://www.e-itx.com/

For information about boards and specs I use this link:
http://www.mini-itx.org/
They are ridiculously expensive though.

Best is to mail E-ITX for shipping prices.
I bought m-itx case + motherboard + 1G ram (including CPU and PSU) for 200 euro if I remember correctly.

This is the board I have: (fanless)
http://www.e-itx.com/jetway-j7f4k1g2e.html
Case:
http://www.e-itx.com/morex-2677.html

Only gripe I have is that the case has 2 80mm fans which are too loud in my opinion. So maybe think hard what type of case you want to have.

But if you are going to shove the server somewhere in the attic, just buy a dirt cheap mini tower case or so. Itx is compatible with ATX screw positions.

WetDaddy

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Either way it's hard to find a decent NAS box with a inbuilt bit torrent client. I can't find anything that has more then 1 bay and does that for anything under 250. That Icebox is a good find.

Check out the DNS-323 by D-Link. It's a 2-bay SATA NAS and the latest firmware includes a BitTorrent client. There's a big hacking/modding community for it too (I installed BusyBox Linux on it with DropBear for SSH and lighthttpd as a webserver with the custom firmware). But as I said, it has a built in BitTorrent client with the new firmware if you don't want to chip away at it.

And OP, that same NAS also has a USB port on it which is for use as a print server, out of the box. Might suit all your needs and if you really want to get hacky with it; you can manually change the fan speeds, spindown timeout times and everything.

Nothingbetter2d

i suggest you build a basic pc

get a good but cheap case with decent 400w power supply
a low cost budget cpu & mobo & a basic ati graphics card
a 1gig or 2 of ram and a dvd drive (should cost less than €400 for the lot)

you say you have hard drives so ya dont need to buy any.

and using remote access software such as VNC you wouldnt even need a screen or mouse or keyboard (except during the inital setup) you could control it using your main pc

but you could probably get a basic mouse and keyboard for about €20 and an old monitor probably for almost free if ya look on buy and sell

PogMoThoin

Nothingbetter2d wrote: »

i suggest you build a basic pc

get a good but cheap case with decent 400w power supply
a low cost budget cpu & mobo & a basic ati graphics card
a 1gig or 2 of ram and a dvd drive (should cost less than €400 for the lot)

you say you have hard drives so ya dont need to buy any.

and using remote access software such as VNC you wouldnt even need a screen or mouse or keyboard (except during the inital setup) you could control it using your main pc

but you could probably get a basic mouse and keyboard for about €20 and an old monitor probably for almost free if ya look on buy and sell

400W is not low power

Nothingbetter2d

just cos its rated 400w doesnt mean it constantly uses 400w....its what it CAN give....in idle mode it would use very little. power when ya need it but when your not using it the pc simply draws the power it needs

also hard drives require alot of power when in use

PogMoThoin

:rolleyes: Ya, very little as in 150W, still not low power

Cuddlesworth

Nothingbetter2d wrote: »

just cos its rated 400w doesnt mean it constantly uses 400w....its what it CAN give....in idle mode it would use very little. power when ya need it but when your not using it the pc simply draws the power it needs

also hard drives require alot of power when in use

Most power supply's efficiency rating is highest close to the rated specs. So a 400watt power supply feeding 100watts of power would pull more power from the mains then a 200watt power supply.

And most hard-drives are rated at around 8-12 watts on load, 4-8 on idle, they do use up to 30 watts at start up but that's it.

towel401

build a nano-itx machine they usually have a couple of SATA ports and don't use a whole lot of power. a pico-itx would use even less power but they only have 1 sata port.

even a low spec C7 500MHz should do the job. any of these Intel Atom or C7 -based boards use way less power than old normal computer hardware. I used to have a 350MHz P2 as a server but those eat up a load of power. so it would be worth buying a more expensive small form factor board. you might be able to build something that uses less than 40W including the hard drives

if you get a DC-DC power supply they are about 80% efficient, maybe a bit more. not sure about regular ATX sized power supplies but some of the cheap ass ones can be pretty bad. like 60% or something

Snickit

You can get a 1.6ghz Atom mobo and chip for £45 ex VAT
http://linitx.com/viewproduct.php?prodid=12147
Add ram,hdd, psu and case.

Wcool

Snickit wrote: »

You can get a 1.6ghz Atom mobo and chip for £45 ex VAT
http://linitx.com/viewproduct.php?prodid=12147
Add ram,hdd, psu and case.

I read some stories that while the Atom is a great low power processor, the supporting chipset is crap (> 30 watt). Is this true?

While we are on the subject: does anyone know a chipset that is even more low power than the VIA?

If you think of it: even the VIA motherboards are overkill for a low power server!
You don't need:

-MP2 accelaration
-audio
-graphics chip

but you would like: extra LAN, low power, good standby mode, low cost, etc.

Is there anything out there?

I looked at special OEM manufacturers but really not what I want.
I do like Nano and Pico formats but it is *still* a lot of overkill and *very* expensive.

Wcool

Folex wrote: »

Check out the DNS-323 by D-Link. It's a 2-bay SATA NAS and the latest firmware includes a BitTorrent client. There's a big hacking/modding community for it too (I installed BusyBox Linux on it with DropBear for SSH and lighthttpd as a webserver with the custom firmware). But as I said, it has a built in BitTorrent client with the new firmware if you don't want to chip away at it.

And OP, that same NAS also has a USB port on it which is for use as a print server, out of the box. Might suit all your needs and if you really want to get hacky with it; you can manually change the fan speeds, spindown timeout times and everything.

I bought 2 NAS systems in the last 2 years, never again:

- both NAS don't have a 'reboot on power failure' option. I couldn't believe it!
I was out of the country for 3 months, connecting to my home LAN, it's pretty crap if after a power failure, your NAS is dead and no way to reboot!

- no flexibility, for a little bit more I can run ANY program i like on a VIA for the same power consumption and price

- not extensible, I have 2 NAS'es with 2 x 2 drives
I bought the VIA and have 5 disks in it, room for 1 more. and I decommissioned 1 NAS. and I run multiple file sharing programs, browsers, remote connections, etc

- one NAS was really LOUD (fan)

- the idea of having an AC/DC for every 2 disks appalls me.

So unless you are sure you don't want more than 2 disks: ok, but else?

PS my NAS systems are Thecus 2100 and some cheap Dual NAS
The Thecus: I had nothing but trouble with, it has problems if you set up the rights in certain ways, support made VERY bad suggestions (like sending back the hardware for a software problem) but the community is very good. The fan is really loud.
The cheap no brand NAS was perfect except for a slower 100Mbit interface.

I decommissioned the more expensive Thecus !

daveharnett

Wcool wrote: »

This is the board I have: (fanless)
http://www.e-itx.com/jetway-j7f4k1g2e.html

Wicked little board. How are you running 5 HDs off it? Sata controller in the PCI slot?

Want one of these. http://www.chenbro.com/corporatesite/products_detail.php?serno=100

Wcool

daveharnett wrote: »

Wicked little board. How are you running 5 HDs off it? Sata controller in the PCI slot?

Want one of these. http://www.chenbro.com/corporatesite/products_detail.php?serno=100

Yes a friend gave a PCI board with 4 SATA connectors, was recognised straightaway in Vista Server.

So the board is in a very old tower that I had laying around and have 5 disks spread around it (some not even secured), no fan except for the PSU.

Really nice case but the PRICE! more than my whole motherboard + ram!

http://www.xcase.co.uk/p/404991/chenbro-es34069-mini-itx-home-servernas-chassis---just-arrived.html

188 euros EX shipping!

daveharnett

Wcool wrote: »

Really nice case but the PRICE! more than my whole motherboard + ram!

http://www.xcase.co.uk/p/404991/chenbro-es34069-mini-itx-home-servernas-chassis---just-arrived.html

188 euros EX shipping!

yeah, more expensive than the whole nas I was looking at in the first place, so probably not a runner.
I can't seem to find any decent looking Mini atx cases for reasonable money. May have to consider a €30 beige box. Suppose I could always hide it in a cupboard.

Or... http://www.dabs.ie/productview.aspx?Quicklinx=4V4G&CategorySelectedId=11145&PageMode=1&NavigationKey=11145,365800000

any other suggestions out there?

towel401

make your own case? don't buy that cube case, its micro atx so that will take up lots of room and I don't know if the mini itx boards will even fit in it

there's a few cases on ebay - they might go cheap
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/?_from=R40&_trksid=m38.l1313&_nkw=mini+itx+case

Wcool

towel401 wrote: »

make your own case? don't buy that cube case, its micro atx so that will take up lots of room and I don't know if the mini itx boards will even fit in it

there's a few cases on ebay - they might go cheap
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/?_from=R40&_trksid=m38.l1313&_nkw=mini+itx+case

less = more indeed but mini-itx is mounting hole compatible with ATX (i have an mini-itx board in an ATX case) and according to this link also with micro-atx

http://www.mp3car.com/vbulletin/general-hardware-discussion/22884-mini-itx-vs-micro-atx-question.html

daveharnett

What about going the M-ATX route alltogether?
There's a little more variety there, in terms of components.
This case+psu would do the job pretty nicely.
An E1200 is about 40 quid, and only uses a few watts at idle.

The only trouble is that i'm having trouble getting power info on motherboards. Can anybody recommend a low power s775 m-atx chipset/mobo? The 945g used for the atom seems to idle at about 35 watts, which seems a little steep. If one exists at a reasonable price (~50 bucks), it would make for a €200 system with a lot more versatility and power than the off-the-shelf NAS products.

SouperComputer

TBH, the biggest offender for power consumption is going to be drives, especially if you are adding more.

You can go M-ATX as some have said this is a very economical route. Most NAS's like the aformentioned D-Link are fine, but you can outgrow one very quicky IMO.

Another option would be something atom platform based, or P4 moblile. It depends on how much CPU-instenive work its going to to.

If its a HTPC setup, you may want to have it do some transcoding/video compression duties, or if you play with computers a lot, you may want to Host some VM's on it. This this case I would go entry-level core2 Duo, or entry AMD as they have VM support.

daveharnett

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

http://elara.ie/products/brandpca.asp?ECatID7=350101&7P2ID=97&Desc7=Tower

First 3 machines

Slap Linux on one, the hard-drives into it, configure Samba and hey presto. A server for 150 Euro with a 3 Year next business day warranty. Who needs NAS box?

I decided to take your advice last night and go for this server.
Too much juice for 24/7, but the price was great, and I guess I should be able to set it to automatically switch on and off at sensible times.

Unfortunately when I went to elara this morning, the price had more than doubled from €160 to €360.

Does anyone know how the Opteron compares to the Xeon? Is the power stepping as good?

Elara: Kin

Price will go back down, it had to do with it being out of stock with the supplier which means that the price is back to normal.

Will be updated tomorrow, not sure how long the stock will last thoguh when it goes back down.

Wcool

daveharnett wrote: »

I decided to take your advice last night and go for this server.
Too much juice for 24/7, but the price was great, and I guess I should be able to set it to automatically switch on and off at sensible times.

Unfortunately when I went to elara this morning, the price had more than doubled from €160 to €360.

Does anyone know how the Opteron compares to the Xeon? Is the power stepping as good?

When you have installed it, could you post how much juice it uses?

daveharnett

Ordered the xeon this evening. I'll get back to you with power info when it arrives.

towel401

hmm.. those are guzzlers

daveharnett

Wcool wrote: »

When you have installed it, could you post how much juice it uses?

Better than I expected actually. With the supplied 250gig HD, it manages it's light serving duties at 60-65 watts. It tops out at 100 watts at 100% processor use.

That's running windows home server, for which energy efficiency really isn't a priority - poor support for speedstep(only drops to 2ghz, even when totally idle), constant hd reads/writes etc. I'm sure a more efficient OS with proper speedstep could get it down to 40-50 watts.

For all it's drawbacks, I think I will get to like WHS. As well as it's bittorrenting and fileserving duties, it wakes up from hibernation at 4 in the afternoon, sends magic packets to wake up the pcs, and has them all updated and backed up by the time I get home from work.

Wcool

That's not bad for a CPU like that, I hope that you use all that power that the CPU can give you.

Too much for what I need, I am now truely going in the opposite direction, even lower power:

http://www.norhtec.com/products/index.html

All of there products are extremely interesting, but the price is slightly to high, shipping is 70 USD as well.

Koolu is interesting, but also quite a hassle to get shipped:

http://koolu.com/Koolu-WE-Appliance/Works-Everywhere-Appliance.html

center15

I'm looking to setup a low windows home server does anybody know it an Atom CPU is powerful enough to support WHS? Any advice on cases, motherboards etc would be appreciated.

towel401

center15 wrote: »

I'm looking to setup a low windows home server does anybody know it an Atom CPU is powerful enough to support WHS? Any advice on cases, motherboards etc would be appreciated.

it is. i'd go for the gigabyte atom board or something. wouldn't piss away a perfectly good pico-itx board on WHS

Capt'n Midnight

if it's only used for local sharing you could set to power save and then use magic packets to wake it up from the clients should be only a watt or two in standby

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wake-on-LAN