She said "just friends", so is it time to forget it?

LegacyUser

She said "just friends", so is it time to forget it?

If it's glaringly obvious what the answer is, and I'm just another love-sick male, then please go ahead and post your answer now. If you think it's worthwhile reading the background to my story then I've written it out below. Maybe it doesn't matter. Maybe when she says "I see you as a friend" it really is 'The End' and nothing that happened before really matters.

If that's the case then tell me now. Please.

The whole story: We met in 1999 when she was 19 and I was 28. I was her tutor/lecturer so I never made a move on her until the very last day of the six-month course. We got together on the class night out and went out for six weeks, before she was due to head overseas to work. We had an amazing six weeks, we never had sex (both virgins back then) but we slept together a lot and it was always amazing. Things, in general, were amazing. A lot of fun and very easy. Definitely the most healthy and open relationship I had ever had (have ever had, actually). I was heartbroken to see her go. Our last meal together was so bittersweet. In some ways it was just as much fun as any other night out, except she wouldn't be sleeping at my house that night and when I woke up next morning she, in fact, be on her way to another coutry. She did leave the country and we stayed in touch. Long phone calls every few weeks kept our friendship alive (much to my amazement). She soon had a boyfriend over there and, to be honest, it didn't bother me that much. She was living in another country for goodness sake, what did I care?

She came home for Christmas and we spent an amazing 12 days together. Out every possible night. We dance well together. She almost my height (6ft) so it's a dream come true being on the dancefloor with her. We read each other perfectly out there. There was no romance this time (as she had a boyfriend waiting) but we still carried on as before, in every other respect, and it was just a good. If not better. And when she got back on the plane this time... I realised/admitted I was hopelessly in love with her. Dammit!

Our phone-friendship continued and by Summer '01 she was back in Ireland, with boyfriend in tow. I went out with them that first night back, but it totally killed me. Seeing them as a couple. So I told her I still had feelings for her and found it hard to stay friends with her. She found it hard to accept this. For the next couple of years we were still in contact. Mostly started by her. Texts/Calls late at night. Occasionally we would meet up (just us two) and have a good night out (drink/chat/dance) and go our seperate ways. She always pushed for more contact and wanted us to be friends. I just couldn't do it.

Once (late '01) she phoned me at 5am. I was awake. My father had just been buried that day and I was alone in the house. A late-night drunken call for a bit of a chat turned into a very serious talk about him and I totally bared my soul to her. Telling her stuff I had never said to anyone. It really helped. If she'd not called, it would never have occured to me to tell anyone else. That's the place she made in my life.

Although I was (quietly) pining for her I didn't exactly sit on the shelf. Operating on the assumption that someone else out there must be able to awaken these kind of feelings in me, I went out with a few other women (and even got around to having sex. It's great ). She, meanwhile, left the country again, moved on to a new boyfriend and moved back to Ireland again.

One night (late '03) she called me and asked me to go visit her. I knew what it was. She was pregnant. This was life's final message to me: there was no place for me in her life. She'd have the child, marry the dad and live happily ever after. Without ever really explaining this thought-process to her, I broke off all contact. Left her to her new baby and her new life, and this time she let me do it without protest and we completely drifted apart.

Late in 2006 I called her (after a really bad break-up, when I needed someone who understood that side of me) and we had an amazing night out on the town. She and her child's father were no longer a couple, but she had someone new and was happy. Our chemistry was still in place, however, and we had a lot of fun. Some strangers (drunken English fishermen) joined us briefly and one of them spoken at length about what a lovely couple we were, so rapt in each other's company and so very much in love with one another. He was drunk, and lonely for his wife, but we were entertained and she told him we were engaged and he left very happy indeed.

After that, we stayed out of contact. Six months ago, I decided to "man up" and get in touch. I figured that I missed her more than I loved her, and I should try and set up some kind of contact between us. If she was willing. We organised a night out and had a ball. This time there was no great tragedy in my life to talk about all night, so we just relaxed and had fun.

It turned into a regular once-a-month thing. We have great chemistry. We "click". Our conversations are animated and we make each other laugh and we are never bored or idle. Strangers always assume we are a couple, and my friends (mostly female) tell me that we have this "couple vibe" and she's into me and all. To be honest, I didn't think much of it. She was in a relationship and she didn't talk about it. I assumed it was good. None of my business, off the table and all that. Given my previous strong feelings for her, I didn't want to go prying.

One month ago she told me, in a text, that she was single again. I phoned to hear the gory details. She gave me the run-down. He wanted to buy a house together, she kept putting the brakes on, cos she feared he wasn't "the one". She does want more children, but she's not sure he's the one to do it with. He pushed it and she said it. And they finished. In hindsight, it made sense to me. The writing was on the wall. We didn't really dwell on boyfriend much in our conversations. I knew the house was being talked about, yes, and I knew was unsure about it. There was other stuff, too, but I assumed it was just stuff that couples go though and never bothered joining the dots (Maybe I didn't want to get my hopes up?) When the women in my life are unhappy with boyfriends they will talk for hours about it. I suppose I'm pre-programmed to expect this before a break up. Who knows?

For whatever reason, this break-up really shocked me. And, in the month since it happened our meetings have become more frequent. A couple of nights out, a couple of nights in her place with DVDs, a couple of days shopping for clothes (normally very boring for me, great fun with her). Our text frequency has gone to daily. Multiple texts a day now. But none from her in the middle-of-the-night now, like the old days. Probably cos she's a working single mum.

She's also met a guy who, she tells me, is bad news: a bad boy. He's into minor drugs and she's met him three times and - on Saturday - they kissed and he slept over. Nothing else happened. She says nothing more will happen. Who knows? This whole going after "a bad boy" (her words) isn't her style. She says herself that it's a ridiculous thing to be doing. Drugs aren't her style either. When I met her, her mates were all into that scene, but she stayed clear. Now suddenly, she's all excited by it.

The previous Saturday, when we were out, I told her exactly how I feel about her. For the first time since our six-week relationship all those years ago. That was at 8pm. By 3am we were both too drunk to think straight so nothing more came of it. I really don't remember the end of the night, but I know we had a blast. Again.

Last night I was at her place again for another DVD and a few beers. I wound up saying a few things again about how I feel for her. This morning (before she dragged me on a hilarious five-mile walk in the rain) we had the famous "just friends" chat. She thinks I have her "in a bubble" (whatever that means) and that if I knew about her, I wouldn't like her. She thinks that I can't see her flaws ("and I have loads" she says to me) and she thinks I'm over-protective of her. However, when I ask her does she want me to stop being "over-protective" she thinks and says no. She has assumed that I was no longer in love with her and can't understand why I'm not over her by now. She says she knows I would put her before my friends or any other committment and she feels that she doesn't deserve to be treated like that. She feels bad that I see her as something really special. She comments on the times she's noticed me giving her "this look" of open adoration or lust or whatever. She just doesn't understand it.

Bottom line: she says she sees me a friend.

So is that it? Do I give up hope? Am I a victim of the classic "nice guy loses to bad boy" story? Is it that simple? Is it because I've spent so long hiding my sexual side from her, that now she can't handle it when it appears now in the form of compliments? Is this "bad boy" thing just a phase? Should I sit it out keep hoping? Is it all just a minor hiccup in her long-term relationship? Will she be back with the boyfriend within a month? Moving into a house with him by Christmas?

I know enough about her three ex's to see them as being similar. They share a lot of the same bad-boyfriend traits. Traits I don't have. In fact, I'm the opposite. Male logic would indicate that she should try someone like me next time, but female logic would seem to indicate that will just repeat the pattern. What's that about?

Does our chemistry count for nothing? She seems perfectly content to stay in my company for 24 hour spells (I'm well liked, yes, but none of my friends are willing to spend that much time with me regularly ) I noticed last week, for the first time ever, that when we were out she wanted my attention and got pissed off when I moved away to chat to a male friend. I realised fast (after he tipped me off) and kept my focus on her. She's interesting, so it's not a problem! When she talks, she tells me everything about her family, her job, her life in most respects. When I talk about the same, she is always curious and full of questions. She wants to know it all. And she remembers it from meeting to meeting and asks follow up questions. I've told her my secrets. We completely trust one another. And, it's a fifty/fifty thing. My best friend's boyfriend (who I don't know very well) met us out and told my best friend we were a great couple (!!). I only got around to telling him on Sunday that we are not, in fact, a couple. We just look like one.

So many of my friends (female) have stayed with guys for years, while complaining that (a) they never get compliments, (b) they are ignored in favour of youtube/tv/playstation, (c) they were cheated on, (d) they can't get him to go to weddings/cinema/family stuff. So, in my experience of life, women will always hang on in there when the guy in their life treats them badly.

Meanwhile, I'm perceived a nice guy and I have no luck. To be honest, I've ended most of my relationships but I still count that as having no luck in love. I'm certainly not a bad boy, but I've a dominant personality and I'm not boring. I'm adventurous in most respects. A couple of my ex's were articulate in expressing how pleased they were with sexual matters, so I've a pretty good confidence about all that stuff (even though I came late to the game). I'm not a wimp, but I do like to give compliments and pay attention to the woman I'm with. I would never cheat and I'm more than happy to trundle along to family events of all shapes and sizes.

My biggest failing with past relationships was remaining closed off from my partners. But that would never be an issue with her. I already trust her. I also don't want to hide stuff away from her (the way I did with ex's). She's the only person in my life who knows that my first book is coming out shortly. I want to surprise everyone else, but I told her all about it from the start. The dedication is to her, and it's about how I love telling her my secrets.

That the place she has in my life, but - as of this morning - I know she sees me as "a friend".

Is that it? Is it time to forget it?

Tragedy

Read the whole post, point: She had so many chances to start a new relationship with you(and vice versa) but didnt. Tell her to read your post here(or write a letter), tell her you really cant be friends and she needs to decide either way.

You cant be friends.

marti101

I think she wants to have her cake and eat it.She wants you to be the fall guy when her relationship fails but shes not willing to go out with you.Shes using you as an emotional crutch and when her feelings and emotions are in check she gets a new boyfriend and the whole thing starts again.Break all contact because at the minute you are not getting out and giving yourself a chance to meet anyone new and thats unfair.She had plenty of chances to make a relationship with you and it didnt happen.It will be hard but for your own well being and piece of mind it has to happen.You cant be there for her all the time and not have time for yourself and especially your own emotional wellbeing.

tbh

normally I would say she's given you her answer and it's up to you if you want to risk further heartbreak by staying friends with her in the hope that something develops later on, but from your post it sounds like either you are supposed to be together and she just doesn't believe that anyone could feel about her the way that you do

OR

you're seeing things (and putting them in your post) that are not there.

Now, I have to say that if you are reporting things accurately (and I'm not accusing you of anything), then it sounds like you would be really good together and you should stick around for a bit and see what happens. However, I can't help feeling that if things really were exactly as you say that you'd be together already. Do you know what I mean? Maybe she just likes you as a friend, and because you're so into her, when you write about her you make it seem like the simplest thing in the world. But maybe it's not like that. It'd be hard to give meaningful advice when we only have one side of the story, but either way, you sound like you genuinely love this girl so one way or the other, I hope it works out for you.

LegacyUser

You have told this girl how you feel. You have opened your heart to her. and she has said no, i just want to be friends. Why?IS her self esteem so low that she genuinely thinks she isnt good enough for you and you could do better?? Has she not had enough bad boy experiences to realsie that nice guys eventually win the race yet?? Or is she just not that into you??

Sorry i know thats harsh, but we only have your side of the story. You seem far more attached to this relationship/friendship than she does, in fact she seems to only become attached to it when it suits her. And of course this friendship suits her, you adore her, you would do anything for her. She broke the friends news to you gently because she didnt want to lose you as a friend, who would?????

Heres the deal..... maybe she does have feelings for you, maybe she doesn't but the ball is in her court now. You have told her exactly where you stand, she has said she jsut wants to be friends. Now there needs to be clarity in the situation. It takes some people time to wake up and smell the coffee, maybe she is one of these people, or maybe she isn't. Either way, give her space. Keep contact, if you can, but let it be on your terms. Stop putting you life on hold for this woman,you have had her on a pedestal for far too long. This cannot be solved unless you are on an equal footing so take her off that pedestal, go out, meet new people, meet new women, do not be beholden to her any longer.

And let her make her mind up. You cant force her into this..... but time may make her realise what she really wants, and she may come back to you, but sadly, i fear she could have her mind made up.

Good luck OP

LegacyUser

she has played you for years mate and you let it happen.

You are her GIRLFRIEND now and always will be. The thought of having sex with you repulses her.

I don't even know where to start with all this mate. You've made so many mistakes and your attitude and belief system needs a major overhaul.

Red Alert

I think you would have been very good together, but I ticked the forget it option. It looks to me like you possibly know one another too well. Possibly she's worried that if all doesn't go OK with you she'll have nobody to call like you have been if she's in trouble.

What's interesting about your post is that compared to other ones you two actually started as bf/gf as opposed to friends, but it reads more like the usual friends - maybe more post... so maybe the thing to do is have a read of some of the replies on threads like that.

Nothing ventured, nothing gained, but don't waste your entire life if this is not going to work out.

Good luck

missmatty

To be honest? Nearly 10 years on and it's never happened. She keeps telling you she only wants to be friends. She had lots of chances to make a move towards you and she didn't. You are around for fun nites both out and in and she gets the company and support, it's indeed the best of both worlds.

If you can handle being friends with her, fine, but I think it's really hurting you at this stage. I think you should take a break from the situation and focus on yourself. You seem to have her on a pedestal and it's not healthy.

Beetlebum

Morning OP,

I'm a girl with a large group of male friends. My best friend is a guy called Mark. We've known each other for almost ten years. During that time so much has happened in each of our lives; Death, heartbreak, love, lonliness, happiness and we have stood by each others sides through all of it.

We are so close people often mistake us as a couple. We are really affectionate and sleep over in each other houses regularly. We lie in bed and watch DVD's, order pizza, read our books and sleep. All very couply behaviour but we don't even cuddle. We hit the lights and we sleep. Over the years he has sat me down a few times and told me that he's in love with me. I do not feel the same way and so as not to lead him on, I have told him that I just see him as a friend and I understand if he wants to minimise contact or end our friendship altogether. He always says he'll be fine, he just needs some space. He may not call me for a few weeks but then he will and we'll be back where we were.

Most women are very good at reading signs. This may sound selfish of me, but I have always known he feels this way and still continue being extremely close to him. It's not a case of wanting my cake and eating it, it's a case of me loving him so much and enjoying being in his company so much but not being 'in' love with him.

I simply don't see him in that way and that will never change. I openly tell him about my heartbreaks, guys I fancy, all my secrets and he does the same with me.

I have another friend who I'm close too that I've always had a tiny crush on. HE's very sexy but he has a girlfriend. As close as we are, I don't tell him as much about my heartbreaks or guys I fancy. There is always an element of flirting with him. It's playful and harmless but it's there. There is a big difference between those two friendships because I fancy the guy in case number two. I feel a 'spark' or chemistry between us (or as Wibbs always breaks it down...I want to sh*g his brains out). It's not a big crush but I fancy him and I act slightly differently around him.

The point of the above is to explain to you that I think you should forget about her ever being more than a friend, I really do. She sees you as a friend. That won't change. The most you could hope for is a drunken kiss but even that would be regretted in the morning. If she wanted you, she'd be with you. Simple as that. You sound like an amazing guy and I'm sure you'll meet somebody more suited to you. I know you think she's perfectly suited to you but she isn't, there's a big flaw there - she doesn't feel the same.

If you think you can handle being her friend then do so but if it's going to mess you up then keep your distance. Even cut back a bit for a while until you've accepted that you are just friends.

I know it's hard and you seem to have this girl on the highest pedestal but the reality is, and she said it herself, she is not that perfect. She has many bad sides as do we all.

It reminds me of an episode of Fraiser where Niles has Daphne up on a similar pedestal and Fraiser explains to him that he needs to see her as she really is. Nobody's perfect but sometimes when we love somebody we embellish them in our heads. There's a girl in work who recently fell in love and it's crazy the way she carrys on. Only this morning she gussed how her boyfriend had gotten up early to walk his dog and what a giving, amazing hero he is. In my head I was thinking, eh...no, he just walked his dog.

One last thing, the phrase 'Hope Springs Eternal' comes to mind. Think about this and make sure you're seeing things as they actually are.

Take Care

LegacyUser

I think I have a smililar-ish situation to you.

I have a male friend I went out with for a few months, a couple of years ago, one of the funnest people I've ever met. Could talk to him about anything and vice versa, completely accepted me as I was and me him, all this from the first day I met him.

A rather tricky situation came up+I decided I couldn't be in a relationship, absolutly no hard feelings, stayed the best of friends, still meet up on a regular basis for pints/nights out/nights in.

The other day we met up for a drink, hadn't seen him in about a month (pretty unusual for us) so had been missing each other loads. Chatted about my new bf+various other things. He asked me to get back with him (again....he mentions this everytime we meet up nowadays (since I was single again)...I always tell him no and launch into a thing about whether it's fair or not to him, us being friends, if seeing me is just going to hurt him) ...and he said he doesn't want to be with anyone but me. We were only together a few months and broke up about 2 years ago and he's not really been with anyone else since. I've had one or two bf's, who of course treated me badly, he's always wonderful to me+i always feel great after seeing him and he loves seeing me etc. etc.

I love my friend very much, he's really fun, I can hang out with him for days+it's still fun. He often compliments me and is so nice to me, whenever we're out we're always very cuddly and both feel completely safe+content around each other. It's something we've talked about though, a lot. Things would be a lot easier if we were together....but I just don't see that happening. That's just it. We have a lot of chemistry in many many ways, but for me, it's just not quite there. I'm fairly certain it never will be.

It sounds like she values you very deeply, adores being around you, has great fun with you, trusts you etc. ....but there's that little something missing.



(horrible side note, somewhat irrelevant, anyone else think of forrest gump after reading this? -obviously take out the bit about forrest being slow. But forrest, in love with jenny....etc. etc. -in the sweetest possible way)

LegacyUser

Me again,

had hit send before i finished my thought there...

You might be crazy about her, and her about you, but it doesn't sound like she's "passionate" about you. That spark that sets things off sexually. You might feel it for her, but unless she feels it for you....

Hmmm, think other people might've said this by now. But I see it other places too, where people are hopelessly in love with my friends for years, they spend loads of time together, get on great, but my friend just isn't interested in them sexually.

Sounds like it may be the case here, sorry.

Marksie

we do not do polls in PI

Amtmann

Beetlebum wrote: »

Morning OP,

I'm a girl with a large group of male friends. My best friend is a guy called Mark. We've known each other for almost ten years. During that time so much has happened in each of our lives; Death, heartbreak, love, lonliness, happiness and we have stood by each others sides through all of it.

We are so close people often mistake us as a couple. We are really affectionate and sleep over in each other houses regularly. We lie in bed and watch DVD's, order pizza, read our books and sleep. All very couply behaviour but we don't even cuddle. We hit the lights and we sleep. Over the years he has sat me down a few times and told me that he's in love with me. I do not feel the same way and so as not to lead him on, I have told him that I just see him as a friend and I understand if he wants to minimise contact or end our friendship altogether. He always says he'll be fine, he just needs some space. He may not call me for a few weeks but then he will and we'll be back where we were.

Most women are very good at reading signs. This may sound selfish of me, but I have always known he feels this way and still continue being extremely close to him. It's not a case of wanting my cake and eating it, it's a case of me loving him so much and enjoying being in his company so much but not being 'in' love with him.

I simply don't see him in that way and that will never change. I openly tell him about my heartbreaks, guys I fancy, all my secrets and he does the same with me.

I have another friend who I'm close too that I've always had a tiny crush on. HE's very sexy but he has a girlfriend. As close as we are, I don't tell him as much about my heartbreaks or guys I fancy. There is always an element of flirting with him. It's playful and harmless but it's there. There is a big difference between those two friendships because I fancy the guy in case number two. I feel a 'spark' or chemistry between us (or as Wibbs always breaks it down...I want to sh*g his brains out). It's not a big crush but I fancy him and I act slightly differently around him.

The point of the above is to explain to you that I think you should forget about her ever being more than a friend, I really do. She sees you as a friend. That won't change. The most you could hope for is a drunken kiss but even that would be regretted in the morning. If she wanted you, she'd be with you. Simple as that. You sound like an amazing guy and I'm sure you'll meet somebody more suited to you. I know you think she's perfectly suited to you but she isn't, there's a big flaw there - she doesn't feel the same.

If you think you can handle being her friend then do so but if it's going to mess you up then keep your distance. Even cut back a bit for a while until you've accepted that you are just friends.

I know it's hard and you seem to have this girl on the highest pedestal but the reality is, and she said it herself, she is not that perfect. She has many bad sides as do we all.

It reminds me of an episode of Fraiser where Niles has Daphne up on a similar pedestal and Fraiser explains to him that he needs to see her as she really is. Nobody's perfect but sometimes when we love somebody we embellish them in our heads. There's a girl in work who recently fell in love and it's crazy the way she carrys on. Only this morning she gussed how her boyfriend had gotten up early to walk his dog and what a giving, amazing hero he is. In my head I was thinking, eh...no, he just walked his dog.

One last thing, the phrase 'Hope Springs Eternal' comes to mind. Think about this and make sure you're seeing things as they actually are.

Take Care

Hi OP. I think Beetlebum's post highlights just how differently men and women view friendships between...men and women. The bottom line is that in 90% of cases, men tend to see friendship with an attractive woman as a backdoor to romance -- which, I'm sorry to say, it isn't.

OP, I've been there. Reading your post, I may as well have been reading an episode from my own life. You are hopelessly head over heels for this girl. Thing is, you're not in love with her unfortunately, because she doesn't reciprocate. You're in love at her. There are few feelings worse than that. Believe me, I know.

I know the stage you're at. You're seeing things such as (as your male friend remarked) her irritation when you weren't paying her attention, and you're basking in some sort of glow when others say you look like a couple, as though this represents a small triumph for how you like to see your relationship with this girl. But it's a very hollow victory.

And yes, I've no doubt that you would be a great boyfriend to her, and that you could possibly have a great relationship, because it's premised on friendship. All you're hoping for now is that someday she'll have an epiphany; that the scales will some day suddenly fall from her eyes and she'll see you for what you are: her true love; her soulmate.

But dude, that is not going to happen. Full stop. She doesn't see you that way, and you need to get over it. The reason is that men and women have - and I'm convinced of this - wildly different notions of friendship. Womens' friendships are baffling to men; and to me it's baffling why - when you tell her you love her - she doesn't kiss you on the spot. It's head wrecking for man, and it kills the confidence. In fact, it almost diminishes one's sense of maleness to be treated, as you are, as one of her girl friends almost, and yet be a man at the same time.

My advice, and I've given this here before, is to break contact. It will be heartbreaking, and you'll feel incredibly down, because you'll be after losing two things: your friendship, which I've no doubt is genuine, and your dream of being with the woman you love. But you've simply got to do it.

If this is causing you pain and making you miserable, you've got to remove yourself from the situation.

You sound very like me. I always have a plentiful supply a female friends, many of whom I find attractive. You've just got that kind of personality. It's a consequence of your empathy and your ability to listen to girls, and be interested in them. They like that. But you need to move on from this girl. Chalk it down to one gargantuan, painful life lesson. In a month or two you'll feel better.

Then you can put those skills of yours to good use!

Good luck OP. I feel for you.

Beruthiel

OP
Reading your post, it is so very, very obvious that you will never have the relationship you want with this girl.
As has been said already, she had many chances to be with you but didn't. That should have told you something straight away.
You were hanging round in the vain hope something would eventually happen.
It hasn't. It won't.
You are great for her ego, you're always there when she needs a boost, she does not see you as anything more than that.

You are now, what, 37 years of age? Get on with your life and find someone who cares for you like you want them to.
Forget this girl, she's not for you. All you are doing is mentally torturing yourself. Life is too short for that carry on.

Dragan

Move on mate.

Seriously.

craichoe

Jeeeeeesus ... move on .. She's used you as her emotional dumping ground for 10 years. Whats worse is you've put up with it.

Karen_*

Heartbreaking as it is you need to let this friendship go OP. Life is passing you by and some day you'll wake up and really regret that you hung around so long.

As someone once said on here, if you're not on the same page then its time to close the book. And its difficult because it is by all accounts a wonderful friendship. But you both view it differently. You both need to let each other go. It isn't healthy for you and she needs to understand and respect that.

You won't meet anyone while she's in your life and its just cruel to be left sitting on the sidelines and having to see and hear about who is IS interested in. OP if you want to be alone forever and just make do with this friendship then by all means carry on with it. But she is not the only girl in the world who you can love and I know how hard it is to see past here but time and some pain will move you forward.

Wibbs

justfriends wrote:

I know enough about her three ex's to see them as being similar. They share a lot of the same bad-boyfriend traits. Traits I don't have. In fact, I'm the opposite. Male logic would indicate that she should try someone like me next time, but female logic would seem to indicate that will just repeat the pattern. What's that about?

If she keeps going for the same kind of "bad boy" guy, well that's her built in template that she looks for. Simple as that. There are all sorts of reasons why she goes for those guys, which are too long winded to go into, but if you don't fit that template, no matter how much of a good man you are she just won't feel it.

Does our chemistry count for nothing?

Like beetlebum explained, You don't have chemistry or you wouldn't be here. OK you may have some chemistry, but you don't have biology. If she doesn't want to shag your brains out, no amount of compatibility will change that. She may feel it in the head, she may feel it in the heart, but if she doesn't feel it in the pants then game over and it's unlikely to change. IMHO women tend to feel it in the pants first. Even more so than men. They will explain it in less obvious terms as the spark chemistry etc. More women than men will admit to feeling love at first sight. That's entirely the pants saying that, with some emotion and their built in template tagging along to bolster it. It can have no actual basis in reality at that point unless you believe in fate etc.

Now people will keep those around that make them feel good about themselves. Yes it has a tinge of selfishness to it, but it's also understandable.

You need to make even a small start in letting her and this go. If you don't you will be stuck where you are and miss out on a woman that has you as her template, has chemistry, biology and a bit of physics thrown in

Wibbs

craichoe wrote: »

Jeeeeeesus ... move on .. She's used you as her emotional dumping ground for 10 years. Whats worse is you've put up with it.

Which ironically also has made her more and more sure that she's made the right decision to not take it further with you. You had your chance in the early days and you missed it. Consider that a good thing as you weren't compatible as lovers. What isn't a good thing is you're still locked into this unhealthy relationship 10 years on.

Wibbs

Beetlebum wrote: »

Morning OP,

I'm a girl with a large group of male friends. My best friend is a guy called Mark. We've known each other for almost ten years. During that time so much has happened in each of our lives; Death, heartbreak, love, lonliness, happiness and we have stood by each others sides through all of it.

We are so close people often mistake us as a couple. We are really affectionate and sleep over in each other houses regularly. We lie in bed and watch DVD's, order pizza, read our books and sleep. All very couply behaviour but we don't even cuddle. We hit the lights and we sleep. Over the years he has sat me down a few times and told me that he's in love with me. I do not feel the same way and so as not to lead him on, I have told him that I just see him as a friend and I understand if he wants to minimise contact or end our friendship altogether. He always says he'll be fine, he just needs some space. He may not call me for a few weeks but then he will and we'll be back where we were.

Most women are very good at reading signs. This may sound selfish of me, but I have always known he feels this way and still continue being extremely close to him. It's not a case of wanting my cake and eating it, it's a case of me loving him so much and enjoying being in his company so much but not being 'in' love with him.

I simply don't see him in that way and that will never change. I openly tell him about my heartbreaks, guys I fancy, all my secrets and he does the same with me.

I have another friend who I'm close too that I've always had a tiny crush on. HE's very sexy but he has a girlfriend. As close as we are, I don't tell him as much about my heartbreaks or guys I fancy. There is always an element of flirting with him. It's playful and harmless but it's there. There is a big difference between those two friendships because I fancy the guy in case number two. I feel a 'spark' or chemistry between us (or as Wibbs always breaks it down...I want to sh*g his brains out). It's not a big crush but I fancy him and I act slightly differently around him.

The point of the above is to explain to you that I think you should forget about her ever being more than a friend, I really do. She sees you as a friend. That won't change. The most you could hope for is a drunken kiss but even that would be regretted in the morning. If she wanted you, she'd be with you. Simple as that. You sound like an amazing guy and I'm sure you'll meet somebody more suited to you. I know you think she's perfectly suited to you but she isn't, there's a big flaw there - she doesn't feel the same.

If you think you can handle being her friend then do so but if it's going to mess you up then keep your distance. Even cut back a bit for a while until you've accepted that you are just friends.

I know it's hard and you seem to have this girl on the highest pedestal but the reality is, and she said it herself, she is not that perfect. She has many bad sides as do we all.

It reminds me of an episode of Fraiser where Niles has Daphne up on a similar pedestal and Fraiser explains to him that he needs to see her as she really is. Nobody's perfect but sometimes when we love somebody we embellish them in our heads. There's a girl in work who recently fell in love and it's crazy the way she carrys on. Only this morning she gussed how her boyfriend had gotten up early to walk his dog and what a giving, amazing hero he is. In my head I was thinking, eh...no, he just walked his dog.

One last thing, the phrase 'Hope Springs Eternal' comes to mind. Think about this and make sure you're seeing things as they actually are.

Take Care

This deserves repeating for any guy who has a "friend" he fancies. It's a great insight into how that friend may be feeling or not feeling about him.

Duckjob

Agree with the other posters who think you should end it.

She's using you. You're her emotional crutch, useful when she's feeling a bit fragile when her latest relationship goes bad. She's not doing this in a malicious way, but thats no still no good for you.

You need to start looking after yourself - get distance from this bad situation and invest your energies and pursue your own happiness elsewhere.

She knows the extent of your feelings for her. She also knows she can't reciprocate your feelings. Therefore, if she's a true friend, she should understand that you can't continue as you have done in the past.

LegacyUser

I am just going to give you an objective opinion here, I am not saying anything following to hurt you but I am going to be honest, you are deluding yourself. Bigtime.

You two dont have "chemistry" -you are dreaming -if you two had chemistry she would have jumped your bones a long time ago. Im sorry but she doesnt fancy you.

You said -"I've a dominant personality" -no, you definitely dont, you were still a virgin at 28 and you still seem extremely naive in matters of the heart. I think you have a tendancy to daydream and live a very internalised interpretation of the real world.

You are over analysing every irrelevant little detail of your interaction with this girl, even the drunken conversation she had with you the night her father was buried, you told her all these feelings but does she even remember....?

As a woman, I would advise you, if she is letting you hang around, sleeping together in the same bed but no sex, taking you shopping and all that she enjoys your company, you are "reliable" but also so pitifully gullable, convenient for her really. Sort of like a gay friend, non threatening.

Anyway, as I said -really I am not saying these things to hurt you but so you can more clearly see you are wasting your time, over analysing and dissecting every little word, action and interaction.

I've no doubt she is a great girl, you use the word "amazing" over and over again, but water is "amazing" to a thirsty man in a desert. You sound more like a guy in his late teens early 20's who hasn't learnt the basics yet, as in you are totally over invested in this girl based on very, very little, other than unfounded hope. I just cant believe you have let it run on so long.

You mentioned you had sex with a couple of others, did you put your heart into it properly though....because after 10 years pining after this girl you need to snap out of the bubble world of denial you have been living in before you waste any more time on this (you seem to dismiss all her boyfriends very easily as if they are just two dimensional figures to you etc)
They aren't, she's had a baby for one and runs straight from one to the other all the time you being the safety net, for company. I think you think someday like in a RomCom she will turn around and suddenly see her true love was under her nose all the time, not gonna happen. She might use you as an ego boost etc but she will see it as a slip up, you would build more castles on sand....anyway.....

So, look at the real evidence, not the stuff you have constructed in your own mind, you dont have relationship with her, you put great store in small incidents like the sailor in the bar eulogising about you two being a couple, he was drunk you were a man and woman together with a rapport, she quickly straightened him out on the fact that she was engaged to someone else yet you continued off in a little reverie about your (non existant) "coupledom" Its sad dude.

Really, you have got to snap out of it before you make yourself look even sillier......I hope I wasn't too harsh, but I am a stranger and the only reason I can say these things is because I have no reason to hurt you but dont like to see people making fools of themselves. No-one you know will tell you straight.

Wibbs

That's a bloody good post from StopDeludingU .

LegacyUser

Sorry I was mistaken, a fisherman not a sailor, and she said she was engaged to OP not another, apologies..however the upshot is still the same!

Also thanks Wibbs ))

Beetlebum

This post actually made me feel quite sad this morning.

Ten years is a long time to pine after somebody and OP I think you seem like a really stand up guy. I'd hazard a guess that when you guys are talking about relationships she says stuff to you like 'Of course, you'll meet somebody, you're fantastic!'....'Any girl would be lucky to have a great guy like you'. She probably even compliments you physically and tells you that you're good-looking. I am not for one second saying that you aren't all of these things, my point is that whilethese comments may raise your hopes she is simply saying them to make you feel good cause you make her feel so good.

Maybe I'm wrong and she doesn't say these things but if she does, don't pin any hope on them. They are just words designed to make you feel good.

I hope you meet a great girl someday who feels about you the way you feel about your friend but that aint gonna happen while you're still obsessed with her. This is obsession in my opinion too, not real love.

Don't waste any more time OP. She told you how she feels. Accept that.

Madame Razz

OP, you are desperately desperately trying to live your dream. Clutching frantically at whatever overanalysed straws you can grasp at.

This particular reverie is never going to happen. You need to wake up.


You regard this girl as your world, but to her you are like an umbrella, only useful on a rainy day or for the occassional shower.

Stop living this fantasy, you have given ten years of your life to it. Start living in reality before its too late and you end up old, alone, twisted, and bitter.

You need somebody who loves you, who wants to be with you, who cant get enough of you, totally, fully , completely. Let this girl go, and go find somebody who really cares.

Best of luck.

biko

OP after reading your post I immediately got thinking of this old gem:

A woman has a close male friend. This means that he is probably interested in her, which is why he hangs around so much. She sees him strictly as a friend.

This always starts out with "You're a great guy, but I don't like you in that way". This is roughly the equivalent for the guy of going to a job interview and the company saying, "You have a great resume, you have all the qualifications we are looking for, but we're not going to hire you. We will, however, use your resume as the basis for comparison for all other applicants. But, we're going to hire somebody who is far less qualified and is probably an alcoholic. And if he doesn't work out, we'll hire somebody else, but still not you. In fact, we will never hire you. But we will call you from time to time to complain about the person that we did hire".

I think you should let go and tell her that because you can't be together there is no reason for you hanging around, hurting.
m2c

Shauna_N

This is not a healthy relationship for you. You have probably put her on a pedestal, sure you're great friends, but it looks like on her side thats all you ever will be.

The only thing you can do is tell her you two either take this relationship to the next level, or you have to cut contact permanently. That its not fair on you, as you have made her aware several times of how you feel about her. If she's not willing to try the next level with you, now, and not sometime in the future, she will never be ready. Cut ties then, its all you can do. As long as she is there somewhere in the background you will never be able to get into a proper relationship with another girl.

Tell her its all or nothing, and then take it from there.

not yet

justfriends wrote: »

She said "just friends", so is it time to forget it?

If it's glaringly obvious what the answer is, and I'm just another love-sick male, then please go ahead and post your answer now. If you think it's worthwhile reading the background to my story then I've written it out below. Maybe it doesn't matter. Maybe when she says "I see you as a friend" it really is 'The End' and nothing that happened before really matters.

If that's the case then tell me now. Please.

The whole story: We met in 1999 when she was 19 and I was 28. I was her tutor/lecturer so I never made a move on her until the very last day of the six-month course. We got together on the class night out and went out for six weeks, before she was due to head overseas to work. We had an amazing six weeks, we never had sex (both virgins back then) but we slept together a lot and it was always amazing. Things, in general, were amazing. A lot of fun and very easy. Definitely the most healthy and open relationship I had ever had (have ever had, actually). I was heartbroken to see her go. Our last meal together was so bittersweet. In some ways it was just as much fun as any other night out, except she wouldn't be sleeping at my house that night and when I woke up next morning she, in fact, be on her way to another coutry. She did leave the country and we stayed in touch. Long phone calls every few weeks kept our friendship alive (much to my amazement). She soon had a boyfriend over there and, to be honest, it didn't bother me that much. She was living in another country for goodness sake, what did I care?

She came home for Christmas and we spent an amazing 12 days together. Out every possible night. We dance well together. She almost my height (6ft) so it's a dream come true being on the dancefloor with her. We read each other perfectly out there. There was no romance this time (as she had a boyfriend waiting) but we still carried on as before, in every other respect, and it was just a good. If not better. And when she got back on the plane this time... I realised/admitted I was hopelessly in love with her. Dammit!

Our phone-friendship continued and by Summer '01 she was back in Ireland, with boyfriend in tow. I went out with them that first night back, but it totally killed me. Seeing them as a couple. So I told her I still had feelings for her and found it hard to stay friends with her. She found it hard to accept this. For the next couple of years we were still in contact. Mostly started by her. Texts/Calls late at night. Occasionally we would meet up (just us two) and have a good night out (drink/chat/dance) and go our seperate ways. She always pushed for more contact and wanted us to be friends. I just couldn't do it.

Once (late '01) she phoned me at 5am. I was awake. My father had just been buried that day and I was alone in the house. A late-night drunken call for a bit of a chat turned into a very serious talk about him and I totally bared my soul to her. Telling her stuff I had never said to anyone. It really helped. If she'd not called, it would never have occured to me to tell anyone else. That's the place she made in my life.

Although I was (quietly) pining for her I didn't exactly sit on the shelf. Operating on the assumption that someone else out there must be able to awaken these kind of feelings in me, I went out with a few other women (and even got around to having sex. It's great ). She, meanwhile, left the country again, moved on to a new boyfriend and moved back to Ireland again.

One night (late '03) she called me and asked me to go visit her. I knew what it was. She was pregnant. This was life's final message to me: there was no place for me in her life. She'd have the child, marry the dad and live happily ever after. Without ever really explaining this thought-process to her, I broke off all contact. Left her to her new baby and her new life, and this time she let me do it without protest and we completely drifted apart.

Late in 2006 I called her (after a really bad break-up, when I needed someone who understood that side of me) and we had an amazing night out on the town. She and her child's father were no longer a couple, but she had someone new and was happy. Our chemistry was still in place, however, and we had a lot of fun. Some strangers (drunken English fishermen) joined us briefly and one of them spoken at length about what a lovely couple we were, so rapt in each other's company and so very much in love with one another. He was drunk, and lonely for his wife, but we were entertained and she told him we were engaged and he left very happy indeed.

After that, we stayed out of contact. Six months ago, I decided to "man up" and get in touch. I figured that I missed her more than I loved her, and I should try and set up some kind of contact between us. If she was willing. We organised a night out and had a ball. This time there was no great tragedy in my life to talk about all night, so we just relaxed and had fun.

It turned into a regular once-a-month thing. We have great chemistry. We "click". Our conversations are animated and we make each other laugh and we are never bored or idle. Strangers always assume we are a couple, and my friends (mostly female) tell me that we have this "couple vibe" and she's into me and all. To be honest, I didn't think much of it. She was in a relationship and she didn't talk about it. I assumed it was good. None of my business, off the table and all that. Given my previous strong feelings for her, I didn't want to go prying.

One month ago she told me, in a text, that she was single again. I phoned to hear the gory details. She gave me the run-down. He wanted to buy a house together, she kept putting the brakes on, cos she feared he wasn't "the one". She does want more children, but she's not sure he's the one to do it with. He pushed it and she said it. And they finished. In hindsight, it made sense to me. The writing was on the wall. We didn't really dwell on boyfriend much in our conversations. I knew the house was being talked about, yes, and I knew was unsure about it. There was other stuff, too, but I assumed it was just stuff that couples go though and never bothered joining the dots (Maybe I didn't want to get my hopes up?) When the women in my life are unhappy with boyfriends they will talk for hours about it. I suppose I'm pre-programmed to expect this before a break up. Who knows?

For whatever reason, this break-up really shocked me. And, in the month since it happened our meetings have become more frequent. A couple of nights out, a couple of nights in her place with DVDs, a couple of days shopping for clothes (normally very boring for me, great fun with her). Our text frequency has gone to daily. Multiple texts a day now. But none from her in the middle-of-the-night now, like the old days. Probably cos she's a working single mum.

She's also met a guy who, she tells me, is bad news: a bad boy. He's into minor drugs and she's met him three times and - on Saturday - they kissed and he slept over. Nothing else happened. She says nothing more will happen. Who knows? This whole going after "a bad boy" (her words) isn't her style. She says herself that it's a ridiculous thing to be doing. Drugs aren't her style either. When I met her, her mates were all into that scene, but she stayed clear. Now suddenly, she's all excited by it.

The previous Saturday, when we were out, I told her exactly how I feel about her. For the first time since our six-week relationship all those years ago. That was at 8pm. By 3am we were both too drunk to think straight so nothing more came of it. I really don't remember the end of the night, but I know we had a blast. Again.

Last night I was at her place again for another DVD and a few beers. I wound up saying a few things again about how I feel for her. This morning (before she dragged me on a hilarious five-mile walk in the rain) we had the famous "just friends" chat. She thinks I have her "in a bubble" (whatever that means) and that if I knew about her, I wouldn't like her. She thinks that I can't see her flaws ("and I have loads" she says to me) and she thinks I'm over-protective of her. However, when I ask her does she want me to stop being "over-protective" she thinks and says no. She has assumed that I was no longer in love with her and can't understand why I'm not over her by now. She says she knows I would put her before my friends or any other committment and she feels that she doesn't deserve to be treated like that. She feels bad that I see her as something really special. She comments on the times she's noticed me giving her "this look" of open adoration or lust or whatever. She just doesn't understand it.

Bottom line: she says she sees me a friend.

So is that it? Do I give up hope? Am I a victim of the classic "nice guy loses to bad boy" story? Is it that simple? Is it because I've spent so long hiding my sexual side from her, that now she can't handle it when it appears now in the form of compliments? Is this "bad boy" thing just a phase? Should I sit it out keep hoping? Is it all just a minor hiccup in her long-term relationship? Will she be back with the boyfriend within a month? Moving into a house with him by Christmas?

I know enough about her three ex's to see them as being similar. They share a lot of the same bad-boyfriend traits. Traits I don't have. In fact, I'm the opposite. Male logic would indicate that she should try someone like me next time, but female logic would seem to indicate that will just repeat the pattern. What's that about?

Does our chemistry count for nothing? She seems perfectly content to stay in my company for 24 hour spells (I'm well liked, yes, but none of my friends are willing to spend that much time with me regularly ) I noticed last week, for the first time ever, that when we were out she wanted my attention and got pissed off when I moved away to chat to a male friend. I realised fast (after he tipped me off) and kept my focus on her. She's interesting, so it's not a problem! When she talks, she tells me everything about her family, her job, her life in most respects. When I talk about the same, she is always curious and full of questions. She wants to know it all. And she remembers it from meeting to meeting and asks follow up questions. I've told her my secrets. We completely trust one another. And, it's a fifty/fifty thing. My best friend's boyfriend (who I don't know very well) met us out and told my best friend we were a great couple (!!). I only got around to telling him on Sunday that we are not, in fact, a couple. We just look like one.

So many of my friends (female) have stayed with guys for years, while complaining that (a) they never get compliments, (b) they are ignored in favour of youtube/tv/playstation, (c) they were cheated on, (d) they can't get him to go to weddings/cinema/family stuff. So, in my experience of life, women will always hang on in there when the guy in their life treats them badly.

Meanwhile, I'm perceived a nice guy and I have no luck. To be honest, I've ended most of my relationships but I still count that as having no luck in love. I'm certainly not a bad boy, but I've a dominant personality and I'm not boring. I'm adventurous in most respects. A couple of my ex's were articulate in expressing how pleased they were with sexual matters, so I've a pretty good confidence about all that stuff (even though I came late to the game). I'm not a wimp, but I do like to give compliments and pay attention to the woman I'm with. I would never cheat and I'm more than happy to trundle along to family events of all shapes and sizes.

My biggest failing with past relationships was remaining closed off from my partners. But that would never be an issue with her. I already trust her. I also don't want to hide stuff away from her (the way I did with ex's). She's the only person in my life who knows that my first book is coming out shortly. I want to surprise everyone else, but I told her all about it from the start. The dedication is to her, and it's about how I love telling her my secrets.

That the place she has in my life, but - as of this morning - I know she sees me as "a friend".

Is that it? Is it time to forget it?

Sorry mate but grow a backbone.

Amtmann

Tough advice! Not very helpful to be honest, NotYet.

Overheal

DeludingU may come off cold but he's got a point. About putting your heart into it - its very true. It was right around now last year I said to myself Hey I want a relationship so naturally enough being fool I took that to heart and ending up falling for the first girl I clicked with - regardless off the fact she was a [wide array of explitives]. The point is I made it what it was and played the entire situation totally emo. You have to realise that choice is yours to make. Its not impossible to go out, forget about her, and fall in love with someone else you just need to put your heart into it - And before you say so - No, Its Really Never As Hard As We Think.

LegacyUser

Phew OP, what an epic!

Most of the other posters have since said everything I would also say to you, but a few little points maybe worth mentioning!

You do seem to "see what you want to see" -whatever seems to suit what you want to believe, but being a female reading this it really could not be any clearer, I think even in trying to make facts fit into your fantasy you even contradict yourself a lot:
eg
"This whole going after "a bad boy" (her words) isn't her style"
then
"I know enough about her three ex's to see them as being similar. They share a lot of the same bad-boyfriend traits"

Well, evidently it is her style to like bad boys if 3 of her exes were bad boys, glaringly obvious but you just gloss over it.....

Another small example:

"I'm not a wimp"

maybe not but you're certainly no alpha male, nothing wrong with that but its just your self image seems to morph a bit according to what suits your fantasy...

Then later, in saying then you are "more than happy to trundle along to family events of all shapes and sizes" -it brings to mind a fella who is not dominant, and having all the female friends, it just seems you have a little bit of a misguided image of your own personality......

There is nothing wrong with your personality but its as if you are almost now trying to explain away your previous "sensitive new age guy" persona and cultivate more alpha/dominant male qualities as you realise this might be what she likes........

Also you are placing too much importance on small things, she sounds like she is a charming person but babes she sounds like she is charming to EVERYBODY, not just you. You are overrating the "specialness" of your friendship with her.

You are getting too carried away analysing small, unimportant events between you, like to you it seems like this mad 10 year saga but all Im seeing is a few nights out/in here and there, phone calls, texts, nearly nevers and a parade of other men none of which are you!

"When I talk about the same, she is always curious and full of questions. She wants to know it all. And she remembers it from meeting to meeting and asks follow up questions. I've told her my secrets. We completely trust one another"

Read that OP, its just a big so what? Shes just a good communicator, the fact that she likes you and is interested in you seems to send you into an almost pathetically grateful state....dont be so sad as to be delighted someone remembers to ask you the correct following up questions....thats just everyday stuff!

"Does our chemistry count for nothing?"

Look, its painfully obvious to anyone reading your post that the chemistry is all one way, she might unconsciously flirt with you but dont take it so personally, its likely she does this to everyone and is well able to keep plenty of balls in the air and conceal exactly what she wants from who she wants.

"my first book is coming out shortly"

Well done but be careful of that over active imagination, two words OP -Walter Mitty!

LegacyUser

Your situation is heartbreakingly simple. Let go. Whatever hurt you have now will eventually go away. Make a clean break.

Neither of you are being honest to yourselves or to the other in this situation. She wants one thing and you want the other.

You cannot be what she wants, and she cannot be what you want.

Change and move on. You have spent a decade of your life in love with her and she reciprocates but it is a different love. Change and move on.

LegacyUser

First off, I'm stunned by the number of responses and I'm going to read and re-read each one many times.

I will try to respond to each poster in some way (for anyone that comes back again to check this). So, before that, I say "thanks to everyone" it means a lot.

Tragedy wrote: »

She had so many chances to start a new relationship with you(and vice versa) but didnt.

Well, in 7 years this is the first time we've both been single at the same time. Plus, we've not been in contact very much. Where were the many chances? She's always perceived me as a guy who moved on from her and dated other women.

Tragedy wrote: »

Tell her to read your post here(or write a letter)

Seriously? I would have thought either of those was a really bad idea. But I will consider it, thanks.

marti101 wrote: »

Shes using you as an emotional crutch and when her feelings and emotions are in check she gets a new boyfriend and the whole thing starts again.

Well, that's honestly never happened. I've never been there at the end of a relationship of hers before. Never, not once.

marti101 wrote: »

She had plenty of chances to make a relationship with you and it didnt happen.

I honestly thought we never had a chance before now. This is the first time we were both single at the same time. Sure, I am crazy about this girl, but I would never have left any of my girlfriends for her. Or cheated either.

tbh wrote: »

she just doesn't believe that anyone could feel about her the way that you do

That's certainly part of it. It happened once before (back in '91). I've been described as 'intense' and 'overpowering' by past girlfriends. Some can't handle it. Some love it. Some women like to be 'swept away' and all that.

tbh wrote: »

you're seeing things (and putting them in your post) that are not there.

Of course. Dead right. It's possible that that is the case. I understand why you say that. And I did try and be impartial. But it was late and I had a few beers in me. That's why I mentioned other people perceptions, which normally don't mean much to me, when it comes to stuff. Just to give views from others. I quoted others a few times just to prove to users here that it's not all in my head. Not because I put much stock in what they say.

I'm sitting here, reading this and writing my answers and she texts to say Hi and she's home from work and to tell me about the spider I moved from her back door on Monday and where it has taken up residence. It's weird. We've basically been out of contact for 7 years and now suddenly we are back in daily contact. My stomach feels like someone just kicked it.

It's hard to get used to this, I must admit. Hearing from her all the time. I pushed her away and kept her away because I'm basically a coward, I suppose. This is scary.

I text back "LOL" and get back to this.

tricky one wrote: »

Sorry i know thats harsh

Not at all, my friend. You are right, of course, and I am glad of the well-thought-out response.

tonyguy99 wrote: »

she has played you for years mate and you let it happen.

Are you sure? We've seen very little of each other in 9 years. I've ignored most of her texts over the first of those years and I completely cut off contact when her child was born and we pretty much had no contact. You think she was playing me? I left her to it, really. I'm not sure how she's played me or what she has gotten from me. I'm a person she might not see for years at a time, a person who often didn't reply to her texts.

tonyguy99 wrote: »

You are her GIRLFRIEND now and always will be. The thought of having sex with you repulses her

Quite possible. But it happened fast. In the last few months basically. If you are right, and you could well be, then I ruined it by being nice to her this year and it's nobody's fault.

tonyguy99 wrote: »

I don't even know where to start with all this mate. You've made so many mistakes and your attitude and belief system needs a major overhaul.

It's a pity you didn't say more, cos I would love to know what the mistakes are. Really. Do you specifically mean in the last two weeks? By telling her I liked her? Was it a mistake to stay away from her for the last 7 years? How? I honestly don't know. But until you tell me more, I won't know what my mistakes were.

Red Alert wrote: »

Possibly she's worried that if all doesn't go OK with you she'll have nobody to call like you have been if she's in trouble.

She's never done that once. Not even once that I can think of. I'm sorry if my original post gave you that impression. It has never happened. Never.

Red Alert wrote: »

Nothing ventured, nothing gained, but don't waste your entire life if this is not going to work out. Good luck

Thanks. I think you are right.

missmatty wrote: »

She keeps telling you she only wants to be friends.

She told me once. Yesterday morning. First time ever. It never came up before. Where did you get the "keeps telling you" from?

missmatty wrote: »

She had lots of chances to make a move towards you and she didn't.

Everyone is saying that. It confuses me, to be honest. We've both been in relationships, on and off, for the past 7 years. We've not been single at the same time even once. Even if we had been meeting more than once a year (which we weren't) I wouldn't have made a move on her. I would have been disappointed in her if she had made a move on me, either. From 2001 to 2003 I saw her a couple of times a year. I think. Between 2003 and 2008 I saw her once. I think. Not much scope there for her to make a move towards me.

missmatty wrote: »

I think it's really hurting you at this stage. I think you should take a break from the situation and focus on yourself. You seem to have her on a pedestal and it's not healthy.

Good advice, but - again - this all started two weeks ago. I can handle it for a little while. I think. It's a bit weak to give up this soon, doncha think?

Beetlebum wrote: »

stuff

Great perspective. Thank you! xxx

Myster-io wrote: »

stuff

Another good perspective. Thank you. The hours are really flying by, here. Reading all this stuff and thinking about it. Last night I was out with my mates, had a few beers and couldn't sleep. So I thought I'd kill time by posting this here. Didn't realise so many people would take the time to answer. Thanks!

Anyway...

Myster-io wrote: »

but it doesn't sound like she's "passionate" about you

Definitely. We've not seen each other in years, so she basically didn't see me in a sexual way. We met up in April. Met up, what, three times after and I never really flirted or bothered to show that side of me. As far as she was concerned sex was off the table. This "revelation" has shocked her. She used to love my compliments back in 1999 but she's forgotten that we were ever that, I suppose. Sad, but very very true. No passion now. Thanks, though. That's exactly the case.

Marksie wrote: »

we do not do polls in PI

Oh, crap. Sorry. I had no idea.

But, it certainly made things easier for me. To be honest, I didn't expect essays as answers. I was trying to get quick answers to tell me what to do next.

Sorry.

Furet wrote: »

You're in love at her.

Man, I love the way you put that.

And your answer is bloody terrific, too. Also helpful and quite correct in all respects.

I'm pretty much okay, though. Remember I've not seen much of this girl in the past 7 years. 7 years is a long time to be out of contact with someone, so this past month has been - in ways - like meeting a brand new girl. Sorta. I can recognise trouble on the horizon, that's why I made the post. Man, my life would have been so much easier if she'd not split from her stupid boyfriend!!

Thanks a million. Will re-read that a few times later.

Beruthiel wrote: »

As has been said already, she had many chances to be with you but didn't.

Yeah, everyone has said it, but I still don't see it. Honestly. Call the blindness-of-love or whatever. 7 years of limited contact, with occasional (once every 18 months, maybe, who knows) meetings while one or both of us had partners. I honestly don't see any opportunities there at all. None. Zip. Nada. Love is blind, I guess.

Is it no unreasonable of me to expect that she would ditch a boyfriend to run after me, while I had a girlfriend and hadn't actually seen her in - maybe - ten months? Yes, we had a ball together, but c'mon this is not the movies!!

Beruthiel wrote: »

You were hanging round in the vain hope something would eventually happen.

No. I left her to it for the last 7 years. Particularly the last four when we've had one meeting and (at a guess) five text messages. We didn't meet in 2007. She did text me once that she was in my town and wanted directions to a place. I was crazy busy at work, and text her that I wasn't free to meet and didn't know where that was, anyway. That was pretty much it, for the 18 months surrounding 2007. I haven't been waiting in vain for anything. I've found other women to break my heart, believe me

Again, I'm sorry that my original post didn't make that clearer. My bad.

Beruthiel wrote: »

You are great for her ego, you're always there when she needs a boost

No, not really. I've never been there for her. God, no. Not since 2003 anyway. And between 2001 and 2003 our nights out were, like, six months apart. Or something. I don't have a diary to check. I know it was months and months apart and I have many memories of me ignoring her texts. Most of the time I ignored her texts. When I started paying her compliments two weeks back, she was very surprised. It's kinda funny, actually. I'm not sure she knows how to react now when I compliment her hair or her boobs or whatever. She's very "where is this coming from?".

But, apart from that, you are right. I'm heading down a road of mental torture if she doesn't stop seeing me as a friend.

craichoe wrote: »

She's used you as her emotional dumping ground for 10 years. Whats worse is you've put up with it.

Sorry, but I don't see it. I honestly don't see it. Where in my original post do you see that? Seriously?

Even if she had been using me as an emotional dumping ground, how exactly did I put up with it. Is breaking off contact for years at a time not enough? Should I have taken out a hit on her? I'm not trying to be glib, or offensive, but I'm just at a loss to understand what I did wrong by pulling away and ignoring her for several years? Someone clue me in.

(Sorry if I sound cranky, it's getting late again and this is taking much longer than I expected. That's all. I'm on Summer holidays so I don't have to be up early or anything, but still... this is tiring.

Don't take my being cranky as an example of me being ungrateful. That is not the case.)

Karen_* wrote: »

You both need to let each other go.

I suppose. I feel like we've only found each other again after almost ten years. You know?

I don't think I was very clear in my first post. I mean, everyone seems to think I've spend the last 8 years just hanging out at this girl's side hoping, just hoping she'd notice me. That is so not the case and so not what I said anywhere in the first post.

Basically, we dated in '99, and had - maybe - four nights out in 01-03, then nothing til 06 (one meeting to help me when I was heartbroken over an ex) and this year it has all changed. Four nice meetings (a month apart) and nothing complicated. Suddenly, about a month back she splits with her boyfriend and the game changes. Two weeks ago, I opened up and said: I'm wild about you, you got under my skin like nobody ever did. She didn't really process that until Tuesday morning when she said: How can you like me after all these years? I'm not all that, really and we're just friends now, aren't we? I see you as a friend. What's going on?" She didn't really ask me to stop or anything. Hence this post. She's very surprised. And I'm clueless about what her response means.

I guess I'm not explaining it well.

Or maybe I'm just blind to my mistakes. Maybe no contact at all for years followed by some contact is wrong. I don't know what some of the posters are talking about.

Karen_* wrote: »

You won't meet anyone while she's in your life.

That's probably very true. Again, she's not been in my life for 9 years and I've met people but if we are remain friends and she never changes her mind about me (as a friend) then I could easily become one of "those guys".

Yes, very true. Thanks.

Wibbs wrote: »

If she keeps going for the same kind of "bad boy" guy, well that's her built in template that she looks for.

Now, this is definitely my fault for not explaining it properly. I edited down the longer version of this paragraph.

Going for "bad boys" is not her style. But her "bad-boyfriends" were bad in a more traditional sense. You know, the typical bad boyfriend who doesn't pay compliments, forgets her birthday, that kind of thing. I've found out most of this in the last six months. I never never knew what BF2 (the one after me) was like until our meeting in April of this year. That was where she told me what BF2 was like for the first time. And BF3 was similar. She didn't really mention the current BF very much. This was our big "catching up" meeting, remember. And I was telling her about my ex's, too. And why it all went wrong in each case. I have a type, too. She's not my type, by the way. In fact, she's the opposite of my type. We were sharing our histories and I discoved that her ex's were typical Irish idiots who don't really appreciate the women they have and - yet - can still keep them for years.

Apart from that mistake, which was totally my fault, your post was dead on. I agree. Completely.

Thanks.

Wibbs wrote: »

you're still locked into this unhealthy relationship 10 years on.

Wow, another person who thinks I've been doing this for ten years!!

I'm sorry.

I repeatedly said in my first post that I couldn't maintain contact and didn't see her. We had occasional meetings between 01 and 03 and none since. I'm hardly locked into an unhealthy relationship, c'mon. Up until she broke up with her boyfriend a month I had no problems at all with this relationship. It wasn't occuring to me to make a move and I never mentioned her great boobs or great hair once. None of that is particularly unhealthy. I have other female friends that I see for nights out once a month or whatever. It's hardly unhealthy. Yes, two of my girlfriends have a hard time dealing with it, but it suits me just fine. And I ain't dumping my friends (male or female) for anyone.

Honestly. The unhealthy part lies ahead, if I - you know - turn into one of "those guys".

Duckjob wrote: »

You're her emotional crutch, useful when she's feeling a bit fragile when her latest relationship goes bad.

I've NEVER been there at the end of one of her relationships before. Never. I found out about the end of relationship with BF2 the night she told she was pregnant and that it wasn't him, they were long split at that stage and she told (for the first time) who her new boyfiend was. I found out about the end of the relationship with BF3 the night I asked her to meet me to discuss my own ex. This is the first time I've in any sort of contact with her while she is in the midst of a break-up. First time ever. Usually, I'd find out a year later.

Sigh.

Some replies are great. While some people are replying to what they think I have said, or what they have seen in movies.

I know everyone means well. I'm grateful.

But, she's not using me as an emotional crutch. If she was, she'd have fallen over long ago!! When she breaks up with someone I'm usually not anywhere near her and she has never reached out to tell me or talk to me about it. Never. Not once. Even now, I'm pretty clueless about what happened with this guy. I know the facts, but she put them across in a ten-minute conversation. She tells her girlfriends that sort of stuff, and I'm happy to have it that way, to be honest. I don't want her pouring her heart out to me about her boyfriends (current or ex).

StopDeludingU wrote: »

the night her father was buried

It was MY father, not hers. I told her for an hour how I really felt about HIM and the way he died. I talked to her about him, once random night when she called out of the blue. We never talked about our feelings for each other, holy crap, my dad had just died, I wasn't thinking of romance. The point I was trying to make was that I opened up to her, when - as a rule - I don't open up to anyone about that kind of stuff. I even ended that paragraphy by stressing that the story was about her place in my life. Non-romantic place. I was trying to point out that while I have repeatedly failed to open up to women, and thus ruined relationships, this is a woman I can - without reservation - open up to. I wasn't trying to use the story to prove that she liked me, I was trying to explain why this is a woman I want to be with. She has an effect on me that other women fail to.

StopDeludingU wrote: »

You said -"I've a dominant personality" -no, you definitely dont

I don't know. I've been told many times that I'm bossy, opinionated and overpowering. Not my words. Other people's.

Who knows?

Most of my friends and co-workers have expressed to me that I'm a control freak who gets things his own way. I have a sister like that, too. Pretty much everything falls into my way of doing things.

Not saying it is right or wrong. Just telling you who people tell me I am.

StopDeludingU wrote: »

if she is letting you hang around, sleeping together in the same bed but no sex

Huh? That never happens? I've not seen her for 9 years. Pretty much. When did we sleep in the same bed without sex?!

As a couple, back in '99, we didn't have sex by mutual agreement. We just did all the other stuff that's not actually sex. We knew from the start that she was leaving the country so we weren't thinking of making a long-term thing. I probably thought back then that I'd never see her again, and I told her I was staying a virgin til I met the love of my life and all that. We both assumed we'd complete lose contact and forget one another. It was just that, in the moment, we were physically into one another and wanted to fool around a lot.

"no sex" doesn't mean lying side-by-side in a chaste manner. I think you were thinking of someone else's post, to be honest. I've not been in the same bed with her for a long, long time.

StopDeludingU wrote: »

I am not saying these things to hurt you

I'm not hurt, just confused. Most of your replies are directed at stuff I never said.

StopDeludingU wrote: »

You mentioned you had sex with a couple of others, did you put your heart into it properly though

Yes.

StopDeludingU wrote: »

she quickly straightened him out on the fact that she was engaged to someone else yet you continued off in a little reverie about your (non existant) "coupledom" Its sad dude.

You didn't every remotely read my post, did you? She told him she was engaged to me! She fictionalised a version of our history, saying we'd been together for years and were getting married and she felt so lucky to have me. She did it to please him, not me. Seriously. You read every second word, didn't you? And guessed the rest.

Thanks though. You are right about me analysing all the details. It's been a month of confusion (not ten years, like everyone thinks) and I'm trying to understand it all.

Wibbs wrote: »

That's a bloody good post from StopDeludingU .

Yes, but those things aren't about me. Or my situation. Close, yes. But every event I mentioned has been twisted or inverted.

Oh, wait, I see StopDeludingU came back and corrected themselves somewhat. Sorry for being a smartass back there.

Still, though, I don't think you get the situation.

You are right that 28 is late to be a virgin. I agree. I made a decision early on to wait for the right girl. I made up my mind and that was it. I slept with girls and wouldn't have sex. That was it. It cost me more than one relationship, and it complicated my life. But it helped me decide time after time if I saw a future with the girl I was seeing. Eventually I did and I went for it. Full sex.

It might sound wimpy to some, but - you could also - it's shows how stubborn I am when I want something done my way.

Without doubt the girl I'm posting about here would have been "my first" but for the fact that she left the country. So, I waited until I met someone else I thought I had a future with. Honestly, I think I've done the right thing every step of the way and I would repeat all of it again if I was given the choice. It took too long, I agree, to meet women I felt that deeply for, but that's just life's lot. Hardly my fault. Not gonna beat myself up over it.

I'm quite glad I didn't have sex with every girl I slept with. Not just for moral reasons, either. I'm very confident now when it comes to oral sex and all that stuff.

I haven't been in love with every girlfriend, but I've been in love with girlfriends and tried to make things work. Sometimes it ended because it was my fault. But it had nothing to do with the girl I'm posting here about. She never entered my mind.

And I'm sorry if I didn't make that more clear in the first post.

Beetlebum wrote: »

Ten years is a long time to pine after somebody

It is. But I haven't done that. I pined for those first two years, I'd say. I'm pretty sure I was dating again by the end of that period.

Beetlebum wrote: »

she says stuff to you like 'Of course, you'll meet somebody, you're fantastic!'....'Any girl would be lucky to have a great guy like you'

Nope. Our conversations aren't even remotely like that. I swear. And she has never uttered those words to me.

I'm not a sad sack. I'm confident (some would I'm overly confident). I don't fish for compliments like that. Yuck.

If I say that I know two women right now tonight that would come to my house and have sex with me, I sound like an arrogant pratt. But it's basically true. One is an ex, the other is a friend of a friend. They are both lovely (far too needy, obviously) and I would never fall in love with either one and want want to spend my life with either one. What's the point, so, of the sex? As for compliments I get compliments, and I would never fish with this girl for any. It's interesting that that's what you got my post.

But, you make a great point and I totally see why you might assume that. I'm told (a hell of a lot) that I have unrealistic high expectations and I should just be sleeping around like everyone else.

It doesn't interest me.

I'm a stubborn, perfectionist, control-freak who is also very funny and confident. I bore easily and tend to keep my private thoughts very much to myself.

Beetlebum wrote: »

I hope you meet a great girl someday who feels about you the way you feel about your friend

Truthfully, I've met great girls who wanted me.

Again, I sound like an arrogant pratt when I say that. But it's true. And I need to say it to counter your point, not to impress you or anyone.

I've met great girls who liked me. And couldn't take no for an answer. They weren't "the one", in my opinion.

I'm stubborn, that's all.

I've changed my number once to avoid an ex who kept pestering me, and I've sat up another night repeatedly texting another girl that it was over, over, over between us and to get the message and stop trying. A beautiful and sweet woman, basically. Who deserved better than that, but she kept trying to rekindle the flame after I had broken up with her.

I'm saying all this to balance out the wrong impression my first post gave. And to illustrate how much of an impact this girl made on my life and why it is that I remember her after all these years.

manukahoney wrote: »

you have given ten years of your life to it

No I haven't. A month, tops. Or two weeks. Depending on which start-date you choose. The "I'm single" announcement, or the "I'm still crazy about you" announcement.

Shauna_N wrote: »

As long as she is there somewhere in the background you will never be able to get into a proper relationship with another girl.

That's true but, again, it doesn't really pertain to my situation. Having had no contact for years at a time has given me plenty of time to meet girls, fall in love and totally ruin it, all on my own

There's really no indication in the original post that I have problems meeting girls, is there? Where is it? I'm not exactly a sex-god but I meet girls and I can charm one or two into staying in my company.

Overheal wrote: »

Its not impossible to go out, forget about her, and fall in love with someone else.

I know it. I've done it successfully for years and years.

It's like asking people should I paint my doors red and being told that's it's a mistake to have green walls. I wasn't asking about the walls and they are not green anyway

My original post wasn't about that, it was about recent developments. A month ago she broke up with her boyfriend and surprised the living crap out of me. Two weeks ago I opened and said I was crazy about her.

That's what I wanted advice on. Not some problem that I don't actually have.

I know I can meet someone new and fall in love. I just wonder if I'll be able to open up and trust this next women, when I have noticed a pattern of being closed off in previous relationships.

CruelToBeKind wrote: »

evidently it is her style to like bad boys if 3 of her exes were bad boys

Sorry, I put that badly in the first post.

To me, a "bad boy" is the guy who likes drugs and all-night parties or whatever doesn't suit the ideals of small-town Ireland. It's just a handy label I'm using to get the idea across, that's all.

A "bad boyfriend" is the normal guy who ignores her to play his playstation and won't go to the cinema with her, preferring to go to see his mates instead. That's all.

"bad boy" and "bad-boyfriend": I meant them to be two completely different things.

She's never dated a guy who did drugs before, but I found out in April of this year that two of her ex's were normal inattentive guys who didn't make her feel particularly special.

That's all I meant and I totally see that I put it badly in the (final version of) the original post. My fault not yours.

If she had a habit of dating drug dealers (or whatever) I'd have lost interest in her.

Honestly, her three ex's (from her slight descriptions) and the views of mutual friends sound like very average boring guys.

I'm not a bad boy, but I'm high profile and colourful. I'm not her type. She's not mine. But she finds being out with me exciting.

CruelToBeKind wrote: »

your self image seems to morph a bit according to what suits your fantasy...

Quite possibly. I don't see where you are getting this from, but - yeah - it could well be true. Who knows?

Factor in the fact that I wrote the post very late after a night out with my mates. But since you didn't tell me what part you are telling me about, I... don't know what part you ar telling me about!

You just made a random statement about me that could very well be true. Who knows? Back it up, please.

CruelToBeKind wrote: »

"more than happy to trundle along to family events of all shapes and sizes" -it brings to mind a fella who is not dominant

What I mean by that is: if my girlfriend and I are invited to a wedding and it is people she knows then I will go, too. And if her parents have, say, a wedding anniversary then since she is my girlfriend I will happily go with her and meet everone for the first time.

I say these things specifically because they have happened to me, while friends of mine (female) have cried rivers because they had boyfriend who refused to do either. In one case, the boyfriend wasn't pushed on being at her birthday party. I think that's just ignorant. A boyfriend who doesn't go to your birthday party and turns off his phone so he can't be contacted while he is out with his mates!! Yet, it happened. She cried and didn't even fight with him over it. Me? I'm different. I've even been known to buy the occasional girlfriend a present on her birthday. That's what I meant.

Are you seriously telling me that I am not dominant because I think it's alright to go to something that means a lot to your girlfriend?

With my most recent ex, I was actually quite happy to go meet her parents. It was great fun. Refusing to do stuff like that, for no reason, isn't exactly my idea of "dominant". It's just ignorant. Yet it happens all the time and relationships continue unabated.

I don't believe in the "treat her mean, keep her keen" philosphy. I'm sorry, I don't want a girlfriend who has to keep crying to her girlfriends about me being an ass. If that means I have to trundle along to one wedding where I know nobody, it doesn't bother me. I will not make an issue out of something that does not bother me. In fact, I like meeting new people. My work entails meeting new people all the time and entertaining them. It's not a problem for me.

Yes, I'm stubborn, but only over the stuff that means something to me. If she wants to go out. Really, really wants to go out for some reason and I have to work through the week-end. I will tell her it's not happening. This, too, happened.

CruelToBeKind wrote: »

dont be so sad as to be delighted someone remembers to ask you the correct following up questions....thats just everyday stuff!

After 18 months?! I wonder how often that happens.

Sometimes she'd ask about something and I'd be like, "What are on about?" And she's be like "You said you were going to introduce this new course" And I'd be like "You mean last Summer, oh right, I remember now, yeah, well that fell through because blah blah" Harmless work stuff, for example, that might occupy ten minutes of converstion would crop up again after extended periods.

I mean, when I went to her house in May I saw a picture and revealed that I had forgotten that her sister had gotten married. And her sister used to work with my best friend. It was a pretty big thing to forget.

CruelToBeKind wrote: »

"my first book is coming out shortly"

Well done but be careful of that over active imagination, two words OP -Walter Mitty!

Nicely put, but it's non-fiction.

CruelToBeKind wrote: »

having all the female friends

What "all the female friends"? Yes, I have female friends (ex-housemates mostly) but most of my mates are men and I never ask them about this type of stuff. I have two close female friends who are like sisters to me. I have other casual female friends, yes, but not close at that level. Most of my friends are male. They don't want to hear this tripe (the tripe that you are now reading, dear reader).

For my friends (male and female) this is a real blast from the past. This girl's name is a name they have not heard in many years. They remember her well. And how sad I was when she left, but that was a long time ago. It's weird for them to suddenly hear me say: I'm heading out tonight with X. They remember her as someone from the distant past who broke my heart by leaving the country at a time I was very happy with her.

letgo wrote: »

You have spent a decade of your life in love with her.

I never said that. And it is not true.

Finished at last!!

While I am humbled and delighted that so many people took time to craft great replies, I'm disappointed that some people missed the point of my post.

Why did everyone assume I pined away at her side for ten years when I used phrases like: "She always pushed for more contact and wanted us to be friends. I just couldn't do it," "I didn't exactly sit on the shelf," "we completely drifted apart" and "we stayed out of contact."

Seriously, folks, I made it clear several times that I've seen very little of this girl over the years.

Many replies were, I think, based on some movie the poster saw once and had very little bearing on what happened to me.

But, it all made me think. Mostly it made me think things like: thank god that's not what I've been doing.

And, a few posts were exceptionally perceptive. I thank God that you took the time to write.

Final thoughts:

I think my mistake was in 2001 when I didn't make a play for her and try to get her away from her new boyfriend. It has been said to me by friends (female) that when I was her first call upon returning to Ireland it was her way of seeing if we could have started up our relationship again. And I ruined it by saying "I can't be your friend" and running away and mostly ignoring her texts ever since.

Had I said: "I can't be your friend, dump this nitwit and get back with me" I probably had a shot. But, no, I had to do the decent thing and leave her alone.

Even worse, our meetings over the years have always involved me talking in very animated ways about my girlfriends. Not to prove a point, or anything, it's just how I am. Being heartbroken in 2006 and needing her help to chat about ex-girlfriend sends a very strong signal, I suppose, that I don't see her sexually.

My revelation, two weeks ago, makes no great sense to her. She knows I've been in love with other women. And when I say (truthfully) that nobody every got to me in the way that she did it totally makes no sense to her. She sees me as a friend. Not a friend who bolsters her ego (like posters here have said) but a friend who falls in love with other women.

She's not even my type, you see. I usually go for very bitchy girls who aren't actually all that nice to most people. She, on the other hand, is all soft and fluffy and nice. The sort of girl who normally bores me. But she doesn't bore me at all. She holds my interest. And years of ignoring her and meeting her for nights of fun and chat and talking about my love life have made her see me as a friend.

When she left the country in 1999 we were lovers, but I never even made the attempt in 2001 to get back to that state. I immediately gave up the ghost and stepped back. Trying to be decent.

Idiot. I should have fought for her back then.

All these years later we are back in each other's lives and I'm trying to re-kindle a flame that I forcefully blew out myself. Idiot.

So, that's it, I think many posters missed my point or didn't read the post at all. Fair enough. It's a bloody long post. Expecting everyone to read it carefully is arrogant and unfair. And it reads like a soap opera. A decent soap opera, however, not the god-awful movie most of you seem to think I've been living

Thanks, though.

Thank you to each and every poster.

Wibbs

Jebus, what happened to the post size limit? OK you've explained where wrong end of the sticks were grabbed etc. From what I can see all of it boils down to this; if she's interested you'll know pretty much. Yes some women can be vague or rely on hints that can pass over a man's head, but in general if she wants you, you'll know. This goes double if you've had some sexual stuff in the past. If you're both single, she's tried you out in the past and still says lets be friends, I strongly suspect that's all she wants.

Now I'm a great believer in looking more at what she does rather than what she says, but if there hasn't been flirting, touching and general non verbal indications of intent added to the lets be friends line, then that's pretty much it. She has marked you down as nice guy, good mate, but sexually off the menu.

To double check it, just ask her out on an obvious date. Something like a romantic dinner type o thing. See how she reacts to that. If she goes for that, don't tell her you like her, show her you like her. Flirt, make lots of eye contact etc. You know the score.

beertons

Holey moley, that's a long message above. Move on man, 10 years and nothing. All the advice here is great, but you need to snap out of it. Turn to the new page in your book quickly.

junior_apollo

You have a past with this girl ... great... but its blatantly obvious there is nothing more for you here except being her 'girlfriend' .. someone she can share a giggle with and watch dvds etc... Every girl has one and your hers...

Most girls either have a very very close girl to fill the spot, a gay friend, or in your case the nice-guy... but your just filling her fun-friend spot... nothing more

If anything was gonna happen it woulda happened... (IMO - you werent dominant enough to take the leap.. you waited.. she knows this and doesnt want someone like this... you let it happen by not being forceful.. your a 'nice-guy' end of story... some women love that... some dont... this one obviously is not for you... she wants it hard and fast (so to speak.. ) ... something you cant give her, its not you... and ya cant change to be this person... either you are or arent..) having a past with her would have made it sooooo easy to get together - as she knows what she's getting... she doesnt need to dip her toe as she would with a new BF - she could jump straight in... she knows what shes getting.


BUT she doesnt want it... she just wants to be friends lad and ya need to understand that - and from reading it looks like everyone agrees on this... (ok there is some mistakes here and there in replies) ... but honestly?... your delusional... your picking holes in peoples replies and trying to refute the advice by passing off each...

If one reply to this post could sum it up...

"Move On"

marti101

Plus to be fair to the ones thay got the wrong end of the stick that was our opinion something that you asked for.Dont forget we are only going by what you told us and in some cases we did fill in the blanks but thats what it looks like to an outsider its not something we seen on a poster.Sometimes people outside the situation can see it all while you op may have a closed view.Well we think the time has come and gone and its time for you to move on with your life,you asked for opinion and you got it.

SpookyDoll

Just read most of this thread, blerdy hell !!!

Anyway, my opinion is you do need to let go of this whole situation, you have really overthought it too much and although of course I dont know you or the girl, the vibe Im getting is that you were relegated to friend status a long time ago and its not going to change.

You need to listen to the girl, in the nicest possible way she has tried to tell you you are a friend, nothing more, you need to listen to her words and believe them. Its hard to say these things to people and its not really fair on her that you are harbouring hopes. She can probably sense that and if you dont stop you will eventually lose her as a friend too....:(

If you refuse to listen to her and keep on reading into innocent things as signals she will be forced to either "drift away from you" or have a big row with you....anyway hopefully not!

You said your friends find you controlling, I think there could be a little grain of truth there in that you are trying to micro manage this situation and force something (a relationship) out of what is a friendship.

I think at the moment you cannot see the wood for the trees. You are too close to the situation and to get a little bit of perpective you need to back off.

Anyway, good luck OP, hope you find someone who is mad about you sometime soon!

Spooky

Gyalist

We had an amazing six weeks, we never had sex (both virgins back then) but we slept together a lot and it was always amazing. Things, in general, were amazing.

That's where the whole thing started. From there you were always liable to be filed away under the "male girlfriend/cuddle bitch" category.

He who hesitates, masturbates.

junior_apollo

Couldnt agree more with the above two posts...

As Spooky said.. if you continue to press, at first she will apologise, hey she might even kiss you to say sorry, but that wont last.. she will turn around and she will get annoyed with the pestering, thus she will eventually look on you as the stalkerish type and then the poop will hit the propellers... :eek:

I know some of the advice here might seem harsh.. but ya need it...

Dinxminx

justfriends wrote: »

So, that's it, I think many posters missed my point or didn't read the post at all. Fair enough. It's a bloody long post. Expecting everyone to read it carefully is arrogant and unfair. And it reads like a soap opera. A decent soap opera, however, not the god-awful movie most of you seem to think I've been living

This is wrong. Seriously, if so many people are coming up with the same conclusion from your OP, don't you think maybe it's the way it's been written that gives off that impression, and not our over-active imaginations? I know I thought the same as almost every other poster when I read your OP, and I paid careful attention and did not fabricate details.

Also this: "I noticed last week, for the first time ever, that when we were out she wanted my attention and got pissed off when I moved away to chat to a male friend. I realised fast (after he tipped me off) and kept my focus on her."

Why? Make her sweat a little. You don't have to be so obedient to her every whim...

LegacyUser

You said

"she said: How can you like me after all these years? I'm not all that, really and we're just friends now, aren't we? I see you as a friend. What's going on?" She didn't really ask me to stop or anything. Hence this post. She's very surprised. And I'm clueless about what her response means."

Well heres the translation:

How can you like me after all these years?
Oh b0ll0x, oh b0ll0x, oh b0ll0x, I thought we put this behind us years ago......

I'm not all that
Look I am ordinary........sh1t <meaningless filler as brain grapples for something to say>

really and we're just friends now, aren't we?
I dont fancy you. PLEASE Jaysus let this stop.....

I see you as a friend.
I see you as a friend, you are NOT going to be promoted, please stop hoping. (Oh God sh1t)

What's going on?
Stop for the love of Jaysus will ya.

She didn't really ask me to stop or anything....
FFS OP, what she remained polite but if you back her into a corner any more that will soon go out the window.

So if you didnt get that clearly -see a shrink, your denial is really pervasive JustFriends and you are extremely self absorbed. You need to get a grip on reality.

SHE. DOES. NOT. FANCY. YOU.

junior_apollo

Dinxminx wrote: »

This is wrong. Seriously, if so many people are coming up with the same conclusion from your OP, don't you think maybe it's the way it's been written that gives off that impression, and not our over-active imaginations? I know I thought the same as almost every other poster when I read your OP, and I paid careful attention and did not fabricate details.

Also this: "I noticed last week, for the first time ever, that when we were out she wanted my attention and got pissed off when I moved away to chat to a male friend. I realised fast (after he tipped me off) and kept my focus on her."

Why? Make her sweat a little. You don't have to be so obedient to her every whim...

True... as others and I have said previously... she doesnt want the person who is gonna be there for her every ding-ding of the waiters bell...
Some girls... (Some)... need tough love.. its how they operate... they strive on it... if they are given too much attention then they take it for granted and go elsewhere to look for someone who isnt showing them attention... they feed on it like leeches... :eek:

But again.. you shouldnt be so quick to pick holes in others replies... since almost everyone has the same opinion it is surely time to take a look at it objectively lad...

Pub07

Gyalist wrote: »

That's where the whole thing started. From there you were always liable to be filed away under the "male girlfriend/cuddle bitch" category.

He who hesitates, masturbates.

Agree with this. You were sleeping with her for six weeks and never had sex? WTF?? How is she supposed to see you as a man when you don't act like one...That was your window of opportunity, you shoulda nailed her back then like any redblooded male would've, especially as you were 28 she must've expected you were ready willing and able to do the business. But then but seeing as you didn't and acted like some kind of princess about the whole thing you you walked yourself straight into the 'male girlfriend' category.

Unlike alot of other posters tho, I actually dont think you're totally screwed yet. The lack of contact with her is actually a good thing as she doesn't know you so well now and you can show her you are no longer her girlfriend, whereas if you had've been in constant contact for years you would've completely reinforced her image of you by now. Dont make the same mistake this time around, if you get a shot take it.

junior_apollo

Pub07 wrote: »

... Dont make the same mistake this time around, if you get a shot take it.

Well ya, but in moderation... Remember what she said first... she said NO... unfortunately sometimes it does mean NO...

IF she does leave a window open then try... but if that fails.. or if no window is open... GTFO... seriously... pushing it any further could have the opposite effect of her being scared around you...

LegacyUser

"I don't know. I've been told many times that I'm bossy, opinionated and overpowering. Not my words. Other people's"

"Most of my friends and co-workers have expressed to me that I'm a control freak who gets things his own way. I have a sister like that, too. Pretty much everything falls into my way of doing things"

"It might sound wimpy to some, but - you could also - it's shows how stubborn I am when I want something done my way"

"I'm confident (some would I'm overly confident)"

"I'm told (a hell of a lot) that I have unrealistic high expectations"

"I'm a stubborn, perfectionist, control-freak"

Ok JustFriends, yes -sounds like it. Perhaps you should lighten up then, these traits you mention are not appealing.

"That's why I mentioned other people perceptions, which normally don't mean much to me, when it comes to stuff. Just to give views from others. I quoted others a few times just to prove to users here that it's not all in my head. Not because I put much stock in what they say"

Other peoples perceptions SHOULD mean something to you, if you do not start listening to the feedback people are giving you, you will continue to have problems like this. You asked for opinions and then when you didn't like the answers you argued minutiae in order to restore your own world vision, I think this stubbornness and refusal to see things as they really are lie at the heart of your problem.


Contradictions:
StopDeludingU: You mentioned you had sex with a couple of others, did you put your heart into it properly though
JustFriends:Yes
Then
JustFriends: when I have noticed a pattern of being closed off in previous relationships.

Which is it OP? -no please dont answer -rather -just think about it, your writing is littered with contradictions.

"And it reads like a soap opera"

No OP. That is not what it reads like, it reads like the bloated witterings of someone with poor self insight.

And when I mentioned Walter Mitty -I wasn't talking about your "book" -I WAS TALKING ABOUT YOU !!!!

Mitty is a meek, mild man with a vivid fantasy life: in a few dozen paragraphs he imagines himself a wartime pilot, an emergency-room surgeon, and a devil-may-care killer. The character's name has come into more general use to refer to an ineffectual dreamer, appearing in several dictionaries.[1] The American Heritage Dictionary defines a Walter Mitty as "an ordinary, often ineffectual person who indulges in fantastic daydreams of personal triumphs."

sound familiar?

Gyalist

Pub07 wrote: »

Unlike alot of other posters tho, I actually dont think you're totally screwed yet. The lack of contact with her is actually a good thing as she doesn't know you so well now and you can show her you are no longer her girlfriend, whereas if you had've been in constant contact for years you would've completely reinforced her image of you by now. Dont make the same mistake this time around, if you get a shot take it.

You quite clearly missed this paragraph in the original post:

For whatever reason, this break-up really shocked me. And, in the month since it happened our meetings have become more frequent. A couple of nights out, a couple of nights in her place with DVDs, a couple of days shopping for clothes (normally very boring for me, great fun with her). Our text frequency has gone to daily. Multiple texts a day now. But none from her in the middle-of-the-night now, like the old days. Probably cos she's a working single mum.

That shows he's back into "male girlfriend/cuddle bitch" territory.

junior_apollo

Gyalist wrote: »

You quite clearly missed this paragraph in the original post:



That shows he's back into "male girlfriend/cuddle bitch" territory.

+1

Pub07

Yep missed that part, it's bad enough going clothes shopping with your girlfriend but with a girl that isn't even your girlfriend...that is total gay friend/male girlfriend behaviour - sort it out op.

Daisygirl

’ve read your original post and most of the replies… I have to say I really felt for you as I’ve been in the girl’s shoes. Friends for a long time, then him declaring that he has feelings for me and I have feelings for him but not the same feelings as his We're still good friends nothing has changed – you need to Talk it out, Sort it out & Move On!!

Then I read your “long winded post” and well, you are coming across as an egotistical Pratt – sorry to be so crass/harsh but OMG Drama Queen or what??
If you are the adult you claim to be then deal with it like an adult, talk to the girl explain the situation (clearly) if your feelings are not reciprocated (which we know they won’t) decide then whether your friendship is worth it?? Can you start to get on with your life knowing that you’ll never be together in the way you want it?
Everybody has someone in their life that they’d love to be with, but aren’t or can’t and decide that having them in their life is worth the sacrifice.
People change and whilst you’ve this girl on a pedestal in your life she might not be worth it, nobody is
I once read that:- "A true friend reaches for your hand and touches your hear" and I believe that she is a true friend, but that's it.