RTE Pundit; China leading medal table ''worrying''

RandolphEsq

Anyone know what he means?

AARRRGH

BrightEyes wrote: »

Anyone know what he means?

He's a racist?

KevIRL

It was away of saying he suspects them of taking performance enhancing drugs. It wasnt exactly that their high place on the medal table but moreso, the performance of the swimmers who have re-emerged out of nowhere with some very fast times.

Tristram

Jaysus you lads are quick off the mark. Was just watching it there. The swimming lad who made the comment, cant remember his name off the top of my head. I'd imagine he means that he finds it suspicious that certain countries produce athletes who outperform everyone else so significantly and then are never heard of again i.e. the Chinese distance runners/swimmers from 8yrs? ago.

Wont cast aspersions myself. I think thats about as much as panellists on RTE are allowed say unless things have changed. I think the dude we are talking about was convinced Michelle Smith was a drugs cheating back when she won her medals in Atlanta but they werent allowed talk about it.

KevIRL

Tristram wrote: »

Jaysus you lads are quick off the mark. Was just watching it there. The swimming lad who made the comment, cant remember his name off the top of my head. I'd imagine he means that he finds it suspicious that certain countries produce athletes who outperform everyone else so significantly and then are never heard of again i.e. the Chinese distance runners/swimmers from 8yrs? ago.

Wont cast aspersions myself. I think thats about as much as panellists on RTE are allowed say unless things have changed. I think the dude we are talking about was convinced Michelle Smith was a drugs cheating back when she won her medals in Atlanta but they werent allowed talk about it.

Gary O Toole is his name, former Olympic swimmer for Ireland. I remember him voicing some suspscions about Michelle Smith as well actually

AARRRGH

I frequent a certain steroids forum (I find all that stuff fascinating) and there are loads of discussions about certain products which people use to evade positive drug tests. It's fairly straight forward apparently.

Tristram

KevIRL wrote: »

Gary O Toole is his name, former Olympic swimmer for Ireland. I remember him voicing some suspscions about Michelle Smith as well actually

Yeah thats the lad Kev, thanks.

Tristram

Think I was slightly confused, not sure O'Toole has spoken on Smith, regarding RTE's coverage see Irish Times interview with Bill O'Herlihy: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2005/1001/1127148472877.html

specifically:

There was, though, considerably less fun at the Atlanta Olympics, the "Michelle Smith Games". Little could be said then, and not much more can be said now, but O'Herlihy, whose daughter, Sally, was an international swimmer, admits to having felt a sense of unease through that first week.

"We got desperate stick from some quarters for not being courageous, for not speaking out, but we were actually instructed not to say anything. Unless we had proof of something we were not to spoil the national celebration, that was what we were told. Apart from anything we were wide open to libel - what Niall Cogley, editor in chief of those Olympics, did was to run the entire Janet Evans press conference, that's as much as we could do. It was a strange time, we were all delighted at one level, but . . . "

Nolanger

Saw the women's archery and China beat Britain well - how are steroids supposed to achieve this?

gogglebok

KevIRL wrote: »

Gary O Toole is his name, former Olympic swimmer for Ireland. I remember him voicing some suspscions about Michelle Smith as well actually

He seems like a decent guy. I remember him coming well out of the whole Michelle Smith debacle.

Amz

Nolanger wrote: »

Saw the women's archery and China beat Britain well - how are steroids supposed to achieve this?

Some athletes involved in events like archery can take drugs which helps to slow heart rate which helps with accuracy etc.

Pherekydes

Honestly, what do people expect?

China finished a not-too-distant second in 2004. Now the world's largest population has home-field advantage. Looking back at previous games, home field counts for a decent boost in your medal tally. Look at Spain in '92. I think they doubled their all-time medal tally in one games. Or some such.

I would have been extremely surprised if China didn't finish a clear first in the Gold medal tally, at least.

Spain's medals:
Moscow 1980: 6 total, 2 gold
La '84: 5 Total, 1 Gold
Seoul '88: 4 Total, 1 Gold
Barcelona '92: 22 total, 13 gold !!!!

robinph

Well the three in diving and couple of shooting golds and the artistic gymnastics one that they have so far are all clearly down to them using drugs. The US doesn't even have anyone in the various weightlifting ones usually anyway I think so China must have been cheating to have beaten the US in those events.

Chinas medal table

Edit: I think they said during the opening ceremony that Chinas team this year was twice the size of what they sent to Athens, and they automatically qualify for any event that they decide to enter somone in.

thirdmantackle

exactly

and Ireland only sends people the top few competitors

I think it is any athletes right to be sent to represent their country if they acheieve any qualification standard. other countries would send them

leeroybrown

Another point worth noting here is the size of the Chinese budget per elite athlete competing in Beijing. I can't remember the figures but I remember reading an article pointing out how much money they have spent over the last four years in their bid to win medals in Beijing. Based on budget and athlete count I'd have been expecting a big medal haul regardless of drug suspicions.

keiran

China's leading isn't surprising at all.It has always be among the top winners in Olympics.Diving,gymnastics,table tennis,which in my memory,are dominated by the Chinese.
The athletes were trained from a very age.And the training was a hell.And apparently they took it seriously .(for many different reasons,eg. honour,career,money...)
Besides,China has a large population which takes up to 1/4 of the whole world's.It's much easier to pick up a Olympic-level athlete than any other countries.Leave alone they're hosting the game.

damnyanks

Swimming sounds much like michelle smith. TAking drugs to win isnt new. How many medals did Greece have disqualified ?

Wasnt our horse drugged up in the last games as well ?

keiran

It might be my own assumption,but if it were USA which is leading,the Irish audience would think it's normal and fair.After all,no much attention has ever been paid to countries like China before.

robinph

keiran wrote: »

China's leading isn't surprising at all.It has always be among the top winners in Olympics.Diving,gymnastics,table tennis,which in my memory,are dominated by the Chinese.

China has only got to the very top of the medal tables in the last couple of games from 2000 on, it's relatively high ranking in their first games in 1984* was down to USSR and it's friends not turning up so loads of medals were up for grabs to countries that wouldn't usually get a chance. China joining in in that year though did make those games more of a success though as there was a bit more competition for the USA than there would otherwise have been. They have thrown huge amounts of cash at every sport possible since winning for Beijing though.

*They did take part in one games earlier but didn't win a thing.

juvenal

I think the Chinese will always be in the medal race given (a) the sheer population of the country, and (b) it's on home turf.

Beyond that, I feel that the Chinese powers-that-be saw this as an opportunity to raise their profile on the world stage, and show that they were as successful and progressive as anyone else, not the shady Commies that they've been seen as by the western world. This motivation of national pride on the world stage has seen them pour millions into finding and training the best possible athletes for every event - especially outside of their traditional power bases of gymnastics, table tennis, diving etc.

The awarding of the games to Beijing is not something I'm particularly thrilled with, and I think the IOC are as corrupt as any of the finest banana republics around. I'm sure Coca-Cola, VISA, MacDonald, GE et al were only thrilled to have an inlet into the world's biggest untapped consumer market. I've a major problem with China's ongoing human rights problems, but yet we're all still watching "The Greatest Show on Earth". The whole thing smacks of crass commercialism, right down to RTÉ having to restrict their usual worldwide radio service to Ireland for the duration of the games because they're not allowed even have a radio report mentioning an Olympic event air outside Ireland :eek:

Do I think some of the Chinese are drug cheats? Yes
Do I think they're the only athletes who are drug cheats? No
Do I think they're using this as a weird medium to show the world they're "normal"? Yes

We Irish have shown ourselves pretty adept at popping the pills or 'njectin' the juice to win medals, which absolutely sickens me, so it would be naive to think that the Chinese, USA or any other successful country are fully clean.

Edit: I can't watch RTÉ's coverage where I am (and I miss it :frown:), but if it was Gary O'Toole then I'd listen. He's one of my all-time favourite analysts in any sport, very shrewd and perceptive, and well able to articulate to the viewer without dumbing it down or patronising you. I'll never forget him calling the Race of the Century in Athens beforehand, and it's played out exactly as he said, almost to the metre!