Who determines the OMSP(Open Market Selling Price)

mcwhirter

Is it the government, the car industry, is it related to inflation, tax revenue etc?

Tipsy Mac

It's supposedly figures from the car industry, not sure how they get figures from special editions of cars which don't actually sell here.

mcwhirter

If it is from the car industry then could it be called a 'cartel' ?

And the more the cars are valued, the more the revenue benefit.
All winners except the private buyer.

Biro

It's from SIMI isn't it?

Tipsy Mac

mcwhirter wrote: »

If it is from the car industry then could it be called a 'cartel' ?

And the more the cars are valued, the more the revenue benefit.
All winners except the private buyer.

Exactly, that's why VRT is so unjust. It's like Aer Lingus setting the price which Ryanair can sell flights for based on their seat prices.

Mailman

It's based on RRP in Ireland which is set by the distributor.

I asked for OMSP on a Fiat 500 and this is the response I got from Revenue.
"Please be advised that the OMSP on a Fiat 500 Pop 1.2 (New) would be €12595 with VRT payable of €2833"

RRP in Ireland is €13995. 13595 - 10% gives OMSP which is €12595.
VRT post July would be €1763 so Fiat Ireland and dealers are making over 1000 euro more on this low emission car after July 1st than they did in the earlier part of the year because they kept the list price the same.

Darsad

The OMSP is declared by the distributor to assist the revenue . The annoying thing about the OMSP is that it is a figure that includes the VRT
and it is this figure upon which VRT is calculated. So in other words if you are paying 30% VRT it is calculated using a figure that already includes VRT so double taxation !! Whats that I hear you say good old Rip Off Ireland !!

http://www.revenue.ie/services/foi/s16_2001/vrt_ins.htm

Someone posted this a while back. Its the result of a freedom of information request to revenue.

It seems consultants are hired to calculate the OMSP, depreciation etc.

Mailman

Ronoc wrote: »

It seems consultants are hired to calculate the OMSP, depreciation etc.

consultants aren't hired. they pay people in the industry to agree with their OMSP valuations if you challenge them or at least that's my experience. Not dis-agreeing with you just clarifying on the basis of my own personal experience. One man's consultant is another man's rubber stamp.

They just assign a statistical code to the car and throw it on a depreciation table. They don't pro-actively check VRT valuations. Either you appeal a valuation and they throw it on another depreciation table or they see a spike in the imports of a particular type of vehicle they ramp up the VRT to disincentivise import.

Owen

Mailman wrote: »

consultants aren't hired

Yes they are. I know of one who had to bid in a tender to get his contract renewed, and there were quite an amount of bodies, both Irish and Foreign competing for the business.

Mailman

You'll see I edited my response to clarify what my opinion of what a consultant is straight after posting.

do you know the nature of his job? For me, they paid a guy to say "the revenue's valuation is correct".

would it not be fair to keep a receipt and the VRT % to be based on that?
that way if you bag a bargain you dont get screwed on VRT?

What if you import a damaged car thats really cheap?

Mailman

Deleted User wrote: »

would it not be fair to keep a receipt and the VRT % to be based on that?
that way if you bag a bargain you dont get screwed on VRT?

Of course it would be fair which is precisely why they introduced it as an Ad valorem tax which is an invisible barrier to trade like the Duty that went before it.
They were forced to do away with Duty and devised V.R.T. as it's replacement to protect Irish dealers and distributors, not consumers.
SIMI are complicit; they get a closed market in exchange for disclosure of RRP/OMSP.

You are here to pay tax. Your rights or fairness don't come in to the equation.

Guy:Incognito

Deleted User wrote: »

would it not be fair to keep a receipt and the VRT % to be based on that?
that way if you bag a bargain you dont get screwed on VRT?

What if you import a damaged car thats really cheap?

No it would be unworkable. people would be gettign receipts off garages for thousands less than what they actually paid. Plus what if you buy private?

Darsad wrote: »

The annoying thing about the OMSP is that it is a figure that includes the VRT

If the OMSP didnt include the vrt it wouldnt be the omsp seeing as you cant buy a car here without VRT on it.

Darsad

If the OMSP didnt include the vrt it wouldnt be the omsp seeing as you cant buy a car here without VRT on it.[/quote]

I think you missed my point the VRT on a new car is calculated from the OMSP that the distributor declares therefore you are pay tax ( VRT ) based on an amount that already supposes its inclusion.

Guy:Incognito

Darsad wrote: »

I think you missed my point the VRT on a new car is calculated from the OMSP that the distributor declares therefore you are pay tax ( VRT ) based on an amount that already supposes its inclusion.

Yur missing my point. You pay vrt based on what the car costs here. If the price it was worked off didnt include VRT then it wouldnt be worked off the price you pay here.

Robertr

The real question is how do they set the VRT when they are first looking at a new model car. Since the VRT is based on the value of the car including VRT then it is am impossible calculation. :pac::pac::pac::pac::mad::(

Stekelly

Stekelly wrote: »

No it would be unworkable. people would be gettign receipts off garages for thousands less than what they actually paid. Plus what if you buy private?

ah none of this its "unworkable" its a cop out, I want a CAN DO attitude

TommyT

Folks you are all wrong.
They use a system similar to the National Lottery. They just pick numbers at random and then multiply the total by another random number. Then they dont even have the decency to wear a balaclava when they are releaving you of your hard earned cash.
I was looking at the VRT on a car for my GF, their valuation and the real world selling price were 30k apart. I know they have to err on the side of caution, but 30 grand is a lot of money.

TommyT

TommyT wrote: »

I was looking at the VRT on a car for my GF, their valuation and the real world selling price were 30k apart. I know they have to err on the side of caution, but 30 grand is a lot of money.

not when you live in the richest country in the world

mcwhirter

Deleted User wrote: »

not when you live in the richest country in the world

Rich in what though, dog****:p

Mailman

Robertr wrote: »

The real question is how do they set the VRT when they are first looking at a new model car. Since the VRT is based on the value of the car including VRT then it is am impossible calculation. :pac::pac::pac::pac::mad::(

Toyota decide that a Yaris retails for X in Ireland.
Competitors in the same market segment adjust their RRP accordingly.

Opel decide an Astra retails for Y
Competitors adjust their RRP accordingly.

VW decides a Passat retails for Z
Competitors adjust their RRP accordingly.

FIAT or the Korean brands might pitch their cars at a couple of grand below the market price set by the dominant player.
Honda might pitch theirs slightly above.

That's the cartel we have in practice.
Manufacturers do not compete on price in this territory. Dealers might compete a bit but that is suppressed as much as possible too and with slim margins there is little impact the dealers can have on selling prices.

Process is simple: Set the price i.e. RRP. OMSP is 10% less than RRP. work out your VAT after.

About 10 years ago FIAT had the openbook policy which was where the RRP was set as low as possible and dealers sold at that price with no discounts available. That reduced the amount of VRT payable by the distributor but dealers had problems with it in that the trade-in allowances they could offer to thick customers on their pride and joy seemed miserable and they'd go off and buy a different marque from a dealer who was offering them an imaginary brilliant trade-in price on their car.

The cartel here is complete with regard to new cars. The substitute product which is domestic secondhand cars is taken care of as their value is based on the RRP of the new cars but that has slightly fallen apart as the market is saturated with secondhand cars and many are being sold by independent dealers and privateers who don't toe the line.
Other substitute product is cars from abroad - CO2 changes have taken care of that as many of the cars imported were large CO2 dirty cars. I'm still not sure if they'll try to stop the low CO2 BMWs coming in once BMW Ireland starts howling.
I am very concerned about the reduction in the number of dealers for each brand and manufacturers buying out the local distributors - pricing power has become too centralised for my liking.

De Beers, world Diamond suppliers, would be impressed with the job the Government and SIMI have done to control trade in an fairly generic easily transportable product like personal tranportation i.e. automobiles.

Esel

Cartell set OMSPs now? No, wait.....





At least I didn't frighten the horses. I'll get me coat.

Our man in Havana

So they don't inspect a car when you pay VRT?

Esel

Depends on the make/model/age. Seems that up to four years old can get an inspection to check for extras, and I'd say that certain luxury or rare cars over this age would be looked at. Recent experience during the regime changeover was that inspections were the exception, but that was probably a one-off.

If you think you might get the OMSP reduced as a result of inspection (car in poor condition etc.), then ask for it.

Fjordie

This page is not longer available. Interesting...

ronoc wrote: »

http://www.revenue.ie/services/foi/s16_2001/vrt_ins.htm

Someone posted this a while back. Its the result of a freedom of information request to revenue.

It seems consultants are hired to calculate the OMSP, depreciation etc.

Johnboy Mac

The market is so distored here that it's profitable for a main dealer to import BRAND NEW (unregistered) cars from the U.K., ignoring the Irish distributor and still make a reasonable profit. This occurs regulary when a new model has been launched.

yes

Does anyone know how often Open market selling prices change on cars, Is it true that they randomily change the prices throughout the year and always change them in July and january?

Max Power1

Fjordie wrote: »

This page is not longer available. Interesting...

perhaps as the thread is over 2 years old!

How\why do people find these zombie threads?

Eoin

Closing old thread.