Is Ryanair about to order 400 planes?

darkman2

FRANKFURT (Thomson Financial) - Ryanair is in talks with EADS unit Airbus and Boeing Co. to buy up to 400 aircraft to secure mid-term growth following its recent earnings slump, chief executive Michael O'Leary told Sueddeutsche Zeitung in an interview.

......Ryanair did something similar after 9/11 which worked out for them.

suckslikeafox

400? Thats cant be true, how manys in their fleet at the moment? And they're grounding some of them over winter

tracker-man

Full story...

FRANKFURT (Thomson Financial) - Ryanair is in talks with EADS unit Airbus and Boeing Co. to buy up to 400 aircraft to secure mid-term growth following its recent earnings slump, chief executive Michael O'Leary told Sueddeutsche Zeitung in an interview.
Planes are "about half as expensive as they were a few years ago", he said, because of the currently weak U.S. dollar.
Europe's largest low-cost carrier last month said first-quarter net profit slumped 85 percent as its fuel costs soared, and warned it may post a full-year loss of up to 60 million euros if oil prices remain high.
"But the price will fall below $100 again because demand is declining," O'Leary told Sueddeutsche. "There is no oil shortage." However, if prices remain high, only between three and five European airlines will stay afloat in the longer term, among them "Ryanair and maybe Easyjet", he said.
Airlines around the world have been merging with peers and buying shares in smaller rivals to boost their income in the face of surging fuel prices. Oil prices have risen 63 percent in the past 12 months and last month reached record levels above $145 per barrel.

tracker-man

And Ryanair currently has a fleet of 165 aircraft, open to correction...

suckslikeafox

tracker-man wrote: »

And Ryanair currently has a fleet of 165 aircraft, open to correction...

So hes thinking about tripling the fleet over the medium term? Bloody ambitous, he must be looking to go into long-haul

Steyr

Oh i hope its cheap US flights!

wittymoniker

doubt this is true, he has too many as is, he's having crewing trouble and he closed a base last week for the first time with 4 more closures to follow.

Mr Benevolent

There's no way they'll order any more aircraft. Finances are in a dire state. They'll survive, but it won't be pretty. I doubt the low-cost Atlantic thingie will take off either, pardon the pun :rolleyes:

iMax

He's also reported (albeit in the past) as stating he wouldn't buy airbus anytime

Mr Benevolent

he wouldn't buy airbus anytime

A real pity. They're far better aircraft.

Keedowah

Didn't he buy all those planes so that he tied up all Boeing orders for the next few year - so if any other airline wanted to buy a plane - they had to buy them through Ryanair?

Or did I dream that.....

PhoenixRising

Typical Ryanair smoke and mirrors. They have NO intention of buying any more aircraft. This article was intended to mislead and distract. Ryanair should be judged by their actions, not by spin from their PR department. They are grounding aircraft, closing bases, offering unpaid leave to staff, and are forcasting a €60m loss and still have aircraft arriving from their last Boeing order that they have no use for. Does this sound like an airline looking to place another big aircraft order? By the way that article is about 3 months old.

ch252

tracker-man wrote: »

And Ryanair currently has a fleet of 165 aircraft, open to correction...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryanair#Fleet

166 Actually:p
But seriously, I doubt they'll "invest" in 400 planes, they aren't losing money at the moment, but this is not the time for such a major expansion of the fleet, and Micheal O'Leary of all people would know that

Danbo!

Welcome to the future of air travel people.....
This was spotted at Mallorca airport last week


Ok, so I made it for the ryanair 747 april fools thread. ah well, maybe one day.

jmayo

darkman2 wrote: »

......Ryanair did something similar after 9/11 which worked out for them.

It worked for them because of the old cheap credit available worldwide and in particular these neck of the woods.
People had loads of money to fly somewhere for the weekend, stags or to visit their weekend place in bloody God knows where.
That cheap money ain't going to be there in the near or even medium future.
Added to that fuel prices have shot through the roof and air travel is going to get more expensive, well unless you are 8 stone and travel in just your jocks with no additional luggage etc.

This is just a bull story to probably deflect from their cock up with fuel pricing. O'Leary might be mouthy and come across as an attention seeking eejit but he is one smart business man who is not about to do something totally insane.

tracker-man

jmayo wrote: »

air travel is going to get more expensive, well unless you are 8 stone and travel in just your jocks with no additional luggage etc.

Hmmm...

diverdriver

New aircraft are cheaper to buy now and Ryanair constantly sells on older aircraft before they become expensive in maintenance terms. So in fact there is always a need to order more aircraft. As for whether they buy Boeing or Airbus, well he wants the best deal. So he needs the manufacturers to compete for the order. Airbus will need to seriously undercut Boeing to get the order. If Boeing won't play ball. He will order Airbus, simple as that. It's pure business.

As for the end of low cost flying. Don't write it off yet. If you think about it, now is when we really need low cost fares. Besides this so called recession is merely a blip in the economic situation. Things will turn around soon enough. Wait and see what happens when the new US president is elected, no matter who he is. That in itself will give 'confidence' to the market. It's all cyclical.

darkman2

Irish independent. Its true!

Ryanair orders 400 new planes despite bleak outlook for airlines



Thursday August 07 2008

Ryanair, which warned last week it could be heading for its first loss since 1989, yesterday confirmed its next plane order will be for up to 400 aircraft, marking the company s largest fleet deal.

The news comes months after Ryanair began talks on the deal with the world's two largest planemakers, Airbus and Boeing.

Group chief executive Michael O'Leary said in an interview with the German newspaper Sueddeutsche Zeitung that an order could lead to the start of plane deliveries from 2013, after Ryanair s current order book expires.

"New aircraft are about half as expensive as they were a few years ago", as a result of the weaker US dollar, Mr O'Leary said.

While Ryanair has only dealt with Seattle-based Boeing to date, he said: "It is also manageable for us to give the order to Airbus."

Ryanair's fleet currently stands at 166 planes. It is set to grow to 195 by March 2009 and 265 by March 2012 as the result of a fleet replacement and addition programme linked to its opportunistic plane deal with Boeing in the wake of the September 11 attacks.

Mr O'Leary did not indicate to the German newspaper a period over which it plans to acquire the planes, and a spokesman yesterday declined to give an approximated timeframe to this newspaper.

Analysts said, however, that the significance of a deal largely depends on the timescale involved.

"Ryanair replaces planes every eight years. If they were talking about buying 400 between 2012 and 2020, that would equate to 265 replacements and 135 additions -- representing fleet growth of about 10pc a year," said one.

"If they were planning to take in over 400 planes over three years, that'd be much more significant."

Another industry observer said Ryanair was "very unlikely" to be able to secure its next plane orders at the same discount as the 2001 order.

This would lead to a significant step up in cost base.

- Joe Brennan and Laura Noonan

PhoenixRising

Read it again. No order has been placed yet.

darkman2

PhoenixRising wrote: »

Read it again. No order has been placed yet.

Ryanair, which warned last week it could be heading for its first loss since 1989, yesterday confirmed its next plane order will be for up to 400 aircraft, marking the company s largest fleet deal.

Thats pretty straight forward I think.

PhoenixRising

darkman2 wrote: »

Ryanair, which warned last week it could be heading for its first loss since 1989, yesterday confirmed its next plane order will be for up to 400 aircraft, marking the company s largest fleet deal.

We are talking about a possible order here, not an actual order. They haven't even decided on a manufacturer either;

While Ryanair has only dealt with Seattle-based Boeing to date, he said: "It is also manageable for us to give the order to Airbus."

Trust me, if they really had ordered 400 aircraft it would be one of the biggest single aircraft orders in history and do you not think Ryanair would be having a massive press conference and great fanfare, not this low-key article in the Indo business section written by Laura Noonan, who I believe is writing O'Leary's biography.

The Irish Times has a different take on it:

Ryanair may add 200 aircraft to fleet 07/08/08

Ryanair, Europe's biggest discount airline, said it may order as many as 200 aircraft to add capacity and take advantage of an anticipated decline in aircraft values over coming months.

Ryanair has been talking with Boeing and is about to start discussions with Airbus SAS, chief executive officer Michael O'Leary said today in an interview in London. Orders would be placed as options beyond 2012, when planes the airline has already agreed to buy will have been delivered.

“I think aircraft values are going to collapse this winter,” Mr O'Leary said. “I think Boeing and Airbus order books are going to be under stress as airlines go bankrupt.” The carrier currently has an all-Boeing fleet.

Ryanair said last month it would ground planes at Dublin and London Stansted airports to help trim costs this winter as fuel prices and slowing economies weigh on demand for travel.

While the carrier may this year suffer a first annual loss since going public in 1997, O'Leary says it will ultimately benefit from the slowdown as low-cost opponents are eliminated.

The chief executive said December 11th that Ryanair would react to any slump in air travel by buying planes. Current commitments mean the fleet will double to 260 jetliners by 2012.

He added on February 4th that the next order would be for 150 to 200 aircraft. Ryanair's passenger count rose 19 per cent last month compared with a year earlier as it added routes and aircraft, it said on August 5th.

Funny that.

Tails142

written by Laura Noonan, who I believe is writing O'Leary's biography.

Priceless - I love seeing revelations like this.

tracker-man

true, no order has yet been placed, if however, ryanair do go ahead with it, o leary is either an insanely wise business man... Or an insanely stupid one! Only time will tell!

jmayo

diverdriver wrote: »

New aircraft are cheaper to buy now and Ryanair constantly sells on older aircraft before they become expensive in maintenance terms. So in fact there is always a need to order more aircraft. As for whether they buy Boeing or Airbus, well he wants the best deal. So he needs the manufacturers to compete for the order. Airbus will need to seriously undercut Boeing to get the order. If Boeing won't play ball. He will order Airbus, simple as that. It's pure business.

As for the end of low cost flying. Don't write it off yet. If you think about it, now is when we really need low cost fares. Besides this so called recession is merely a blip in the economic situation. Things will turn around soon enough. Wait and see what happens when the new US president is elected, no matter who he is. That in itself will give 'confidence' to the market. It's all cyclical.

Just because we need low cost fares doesn't mean we will get them
If oil costs are high then you have to pay for the fuel somehow and it is ancilliary charges that are creeping up so if your fare isn't high you will find it is your seat allocation, your check in, your baggaage etc etc.

The last 10 years and especially the last 5 years in this country have been the blips.
Never was there so much cheap credit available worldwide which drove the property boom and the increasing travel both here and around the world.

The next US president has major problems. Don't hold your breath for the finanical institutions to start firing out money to everyone and anyone as they did over the last 6/7 years.
We are in for some hard times ahead.
Aviation has been taking a hit and look how many layoffs and grounding of aircraft have been taking place in the US.

Biro

jmayo wrote: »

Just because we need low cost fares doesn't mean we will get them
If oil costs are high then you have to pay for the fuel somehow and it is ancilliary charges that are creeping up so if your fare isn't high you will find it is your seat allocation, your check in, your baggaage etc etc.

The last 10 years and especially the last 5 years in this country have been the blips.
Never was there so much cheap credit available worldwide which drove the property boom and the increasing travel both here and around the world.

The next US president has major problems. Don't hold your breath for the finanical institutions to start firing out money to everyone and anyone as they did over the last 6/7 years.
We are in for some hard times ahead.
Aviation has been taking a hit and look how many layoffs and grounding of aircraft have been taking place in the US.

Despite all these charges by Ryanair, the single charge by Aer Lingus is still significantly more than the grouped charges by Ryanair for a same flight.

Fratton Fred

you get two suppliers, tell them you want to place a massive order and they rip each other to shreds competing for it.

you then turn around ans say that actually, we only want 200 planes but we will have them at the 400 plane price please, because we now know what you can build them for.

simple negotiating tactics.

They will need to order planes but the 400 is a smoke screen.

Mailman

I don't think either Airbus or Boeing will play ball.
The option price on further plane sales will be ratched up to discourage Ryanair from buying more than they need.
Ryaniar with a stock of planes for delivery in the middle term becomes more of a competitor to either Airbus or Boeing than they are competitors to themselves.

Boeing must be playing hardball. they know Ryanair's fleet is standardized on the 737 and aren't discounting as much as Ryanair would like.
If they even bought a few Airbus then Boeing would know Ryanair is not blowing hot air but they don't have any Airbus airplanes or pilots so Boeing are in the strong bargaining position.

Steyr

Im reading "A Life In Full Flight, The Story Of The Man Who Made Ryanair Takeoff" at the moment, god this guy is a genius, every cost cutting way imaginable, if in his position id do the exact sam, costs down, wealth up!

Surely it would be sensible to buy new AC for FR anyway as the time needed for IRAN's and Major Repairs would be low even if non existant for quite a bit of time, and a one type fleet of Aircraft such as the 738 would keep the costs down with training etc.

Fratton Fred

Mailman wrote: »

I don't think either Airbus or Boeing will play ball.
The option price on further plane sales will be ratched up to discourage Ryanair from buying more than they need.
Ryaniar with a stock of planes for delivery in the middle term becomes more of a competitor to either Airbus or Boeing than they are competitors to themselves.

Boeing must be playing hardball. they know Ryanair's fleet is standardized on the 737 and aren't discounting as much as Ryanair would like.
If they even bought a few Airbus then Boeing would know Ryanair is not blowing hot air but they don't have any Airbus airplanes or pilots so Boeing are in the strong bargaining position.

Steyr wrote: »

Im reading "A Life In Full Flight, The Story Of The Man Who Made Ryanair Takeoff" at the moment, god this guy is a genius, every cost cutting way imaginable, if in his position id do the exact sam, costs down, wealth up!

Surely it would be sensible to buy new AC for FR anyway as the time needed for IRAN's and Major Repairs would be low even if non existant for quite a bit of time, and a one type fleet of Aircraft such as the 738 would keep the costs down with training etc.

Boeing are in the strong position, but if i was Ryanair I would certainly be talking to Airbus. If airbus get one plane in the door then it will break the monopoly so Airbus will be pushing for it and Boeing will be trying to keep them out.

Neither EADS or Boeing can afford to not play ball, unless they discuss it between them. in which case Michael, or at least his lawyers, will have a field day.

Preset No.3

tracker-man wrote: »

And Ryanair currently has a fleet of 165 aircraft, open to correction...

166 currently. With another 135 on order and 111 options.

Latest to arrive was EI-DYN on 13/06/08

Run_to_da_hills

This is all a bluff on O'Learys behalf on trying to try to swing Boeing into another post 9/11 type deal with rock bottom prices, or else to excite the market and raise his share prices. I cannot see boeing falling for it this time, they were not too impressed with the carry on so far by O Leary shifting some "seconds hand" 737 800's at more than what he originally paid for.

It would be a very foolish move for Ryanair to buy from Airbus unless he intends going "long haul" with a completely different type of plane. If not he will have to retrain pilots, order spares, logistics etc with an entirely different airline fleet.

A lot has happened in the last few years that O leary must take into consideration. The "boom years" are over, in Ireland anyway for the moment. More on the dole, less disposable cash to take a break even if he gave the flights away, many couldn't afford to travel anywhere on e200 a week and with this new post office payment clampdown.

Foreign Nationals were a good steady revenue for Ryan air with workers travelling home sometimes once a month, These guys will go straight home for good once things go bad here, particularly in the building trade.

New Anti Terrorism measures and long Q's are putting people off flying, Already in the USA they have noticed a drop in the number of international and Internal flights and they put it down to delays and hassle and people paranoid about these new measures..

Rail companies are beginning to fight back such as CIE cutting fares by up to 50%. this is to compete with the likes of Ryanair and Aer Arran. On the Continent the TGV and Channel Tunnel offer similat cut price discounts.

Maybe O Leary can think again before he makes this decision,