John O'Mahony

nacho libre

O'Mahony should resign.
Given Moran's crime was to get Mayo to an All-Ireland final in his first year in charge. His departure was justified on the grounds that John O'Mahony having won All-Irelands' with Galway was best placed to guide Mayo to winning the big one. Yet here we are two years later and Mayo are out at this early stage... I can't see Mayo doing much better next year. Mayo had a great chance in 1989 to lift Sam but O'Mahony again let personal feelings get in the way of what was best for the team. I'm not saying McDonald's inclusion would have ensured All-Ireland success(but i would argue his extra bit of class may have ensured they were still in the championship this year) just highlighting O'Mahony has previous form in being in dispute with a player. It may not be easy (players are not blameless), but in saying that a manager should bite his tongue and do what is best overall for the team. Twice he has failed to do this. People will overlook these issues but those who welcomed his appointment and believed he would bring Mayo an All-Ireland within three years must surely accept it's not going to happen. His defenders will say the talent isn't there to achieve it. Which maybe true but this wasn't enough to save previous Mayo managers who had the same problem.

aidan24326

What was the dispute in '89?

Waylander

I am no defender to John O Mahony, but put quite simply, the talent is not there. They were a far better team in 2006, but still were not good enough to win Sam. Why do Mayo folk think that they have this divine right to win Sam? John Maughan got the bullet for getting the team to a final. Mayo people thought it was the right decision, I thought they were insane, now Mayo people are calling for O Mahoneys head, even though he was a popular replacement.

Some day it will occur to you that the players just are not there!

JMULL

Problem in 89 was that Omahoney was not able to take Padraic Brogan the best footballer in the county at the time on board. O Mahoney took job last year to launch his political career. He knew at the time what players were available and coming up in the county. Two year on and he really has only added Howley, Cuniffe and Parson to starting fifteen. Political career is now up and running, ever year is a year closer to next election. The vibes from O Mahoney is that he would like to be pushed. That way he could play the victim, nobody could say he deserted the county as he was forced out and sure he probably would have won an all ireland if he was not forced to leave. Well he got him self into the job so he should wait and finish it. Sure the dogs on the streets knew before final in 06 that Moran was a gonner after the match, win, lose or draw.

nacho libre

JMULL wrote: »

Problem in 89 was that Omahoney was not able to take Padraic Brogan the best footballer in the county at the time on board. O Mahoney took job last year to launch his political career. He knew at the time what players were available and coming up in the county. Two year on and he really has only added Howley, Cuniffe and Parson to starting fifteen. Political career is now up and running, ever year is a year closer to next election. The vibes from O Mahoney is that he would like to be pushed. That way he could play the victim, nobody could say he deserted the county as he was forced out and sure he probably would have won an all ireland if he was not forced to leave. Well he got him self into the job so he should wait and finish it. Sure the dogs on the streets knew before final in 06 that Moran was a gonner after the match, win, lose or draw.

ah the crafty bugger.
However, all political machinations aside, had the team won in 2006 i don't see how they'd have been able to get rid of Moran.

homerjay2005

lost all respect for mayo gaa after the disgraceful treatment that they gave moran in 2006. o mahoney is seen as a god over there and its cost them now, as the lasts 2 years, they havent even made it past rd 3 of the qualifiers.

jmayo

JMULL wrote: »

Problem in 89 was that Omahoney was not able to take Padraic Brogan the best footballer in the county at the time on board. O Mahoney took job last year to launch his political career. He knew at the time what players were available and coming up in the county. Two year on and he really has only added Howley, Cuniffe and Parson to starting fifteen. Political career is now up and running, ever year is a year closer to next election. The vibes from O Mahoney is that he would like to be pushed. That way he could play the victim, nobody could say he deserted the county as he was forced out and sure he probably would have won an all ireland if he was not forced to leave. Well he got him self into the job so he should wait and finish it. Sure the dogs on the streets knew before final in 06 that Moran was a gonner after the match, win, lose or draw.

You wouldn't be from Knockmore by any chance ?
From what I remember Brogan got axed because he was in a pub rather than at training ?
He was a great footballer in his day but he also had more than a few problems with the sauce.

The problem with Maughan was he managed to blow All Irelands by indecision or rather not reacting when things were going wrong on the pitch.
Moran did brilliant in 2006, but he should have realised that Heaney was never going to handle Donaghy, after he had been pasted two years before by the high balls. Saying that, he deserved another year to see what he could do.

Anyway Mayo do not have the players, there are some good players but there aren't enough to win and All-Ireland so no matter who the manager is we ain't going to win it.
IMHO what has let Mayo down in the recent past is that the players are not tough enough both physically and mentally when push comes to shove.

PS BTW Johno doesn't have an "E" in his name.

nacho libre

jmayo wrote: »

You wouldn't be from Knockmore by any chance ?
From what I remember Brogan got axed because he was in a pub rather than at training ?
He was a great footballer in his day but he also had more than a few problems with the sauce.

The problem with Maughan was he managed to blow All Irelands by indecision or rather not reacting when things were going wrong on the pitch.
Moran did brilliant in 2006, but he should have realised that Heaney was never going to handle Donaghy, after he had been pasted two years before by the high balls. Saying that, he deserved another year to see what he could do.

Anyway Mayo do not have the players, there are some good players but there aren't enough to win and All-Ireland so no matter who the manager is we ain't going to win it.
IMHO what has let Mayo down in the recent past is that the players are not tough enough both physically and mentally when push comes to shove.

PS BTW Johno doesn't have an "E" in his name.

So there is no problem with Johno's management?

To me there is.
Two of the best players Mayo had of there respective generation were in dispute with O'Mahony. I'm not saying the players were angels but it is O'Mahony's job to manage players. Perhaps there is nothing he could do in the case of Brogan but he certainly failed in the case of McDonald by refusing to bring him back into the fold.
If it's just down to lack of players as you say what is the point of singling Maughan out for criticism(btw he brought them to more All-Ireland finals than O'Mahony has)
His shortcomings as a manager are largely irrevelant in that case.

Whatever about toughness and mental attitude,
IMHO Mayo's major problem has always been there in ability to turn significant amounts of possession into scores despite many opportunities to do so. We saw this against Tyrone last Saturday. We saw it in '96. etc etc

jmayo

nacho libre wrote: »

So there is no problem with Johno's management?

To me there is.
Two of the best players Mayo had of there respective generation were in dispute with O'Mahony. I'm not saying the players were angels but it is O'Mahony's job to manage players. Perhaps there is nothing he could do in the case of Brogan but he certainly failed in the case of McDonald by refusing to bring him back into the fold.
If it's just down to lack of players as you say what is the point of singling Maughan out for criticism(btw he brought them to more All-Ireland finals than O'Mahony has)
His shortcomings as a manager are largely irrevelant in that case.

Whatever about toughness and mental attitude,
IMHO Mayo's major problem has always been there in ability to turn significant amounts of possession into scores despite many opportunities to do so. We saw this against Tyrone last Saturday. We saw it in '96. etc etc

Jaysus nacho where did I say there was no problem with his management.
I just gave reasons for someone stating he had left Brogan out without giving some possible reasons for it.

I don't know why McDonald is left out ?
I do think he can slow play up but I also think he has an ability to deliver a brilliant pass and take a brilliant point.
He should at least be on the panel ahead of some of the donkeys that miss from straight in front of the posts. Saying that I do remember McDonald doing the same in 97 against Offaly.

Maughan had a habit of just appearing to sit there while the wheels fell off.
From memory I think he left Dermot Flanagan on the pitch too long where he was getting roasted. Good managers make decisions and change games.
We had good enough players to win at least one of the All Irelands he was in.
We blew it against Meath and were beaten by affectively the one man Kerry team of Maurice Fitzgerald, great player though he was.
So out of his three finals I reckon he should have won one.

Look at the way Galway played under Johno, particularly in their first AIF against Kildare.
They used quick long balls to the forwards and none of this arsin around with handpasses going nowhere fast. I serisously don't think that he can do much with this bunch. There are no real class players on the team, yes Mortimer and Dillion are good but you need input from a few more.
Are they in the league of the conbinations of AIF winners over hte lat 6/7 years: O'Neill, Mulligan & Canavan, Cooper, Russell, Donaghy & Brosnan or McDonnell, McConville & Clarke ?

Since last AIF, some pretty good influential players were lost and some others have even more miles on the clock.
And yes MacDonald could add somehting special to a team.
Why he isn't in the mix is the question.

MayoForSam

I had to laugh last week leading up to the game when I saw JO'M being interviewed on Six-one - beforehand he was holding court with about a dozen Ballyhaunis farmers all arranged in a neat semi-circle around their local TD.

Let's face it, double-jobbing as a public representative doesn't cut it when you're trying to manage a team like Mayo - way too much politics. JO'M seems to have lost something along the way when it comes to coaching and getting the best out of a 'fairly' talented group of players. Still in Division 1 remember, quarter-finals should have been a minimal target.

I am not changing my username however - keep the faith!

dodgyme

not having an ear fully to the ground on this one. But from a distance it looked like moran was replaced by someone who could push forward and win that last match that mayo just couldnt do and take sam(i.e. O'mahoney). Then omahoney got the job and all the talk of rebuilding started?. This new rebuilding (not pushing over the line) has happened without the county best player and mayo are out quickly 2 years in a row. The tyrone game was a 1 point loss and the Galway game was also a 1 point loss. Trend to me is that where mayo couldnt push over the line for an all - ireland they now cant push over the line for a championship victory against teams. Politics may be a background reason for his continued support amoungst people around castlebar who may otherwise be gunning for his head with the teams preformance?

Culchie

Padraig Brogan was a raving alcoholic that Mother theresa couldn't help in the late 80's, never mind Johnno ... so it's a bit unfair pinning him down an that one.

If I remember rightly, he had to 'sort out' the Donnelan brothers in Galway as well .... Michael played, John (his more talented, but lazy brother) didn't ..... Galway won two All-Irelands and I don't hear too many complaints from Galway supporters.

Yes, he has an issue with McDonald, I wish it had been sorted but it takes two to argue, and trust me McDonald can be one awkward mudder ducker when he feels like it..... and Maughan also had problems with him, as did Moran
I remember Mayo lose to Fermanagh in Charlestown under Maughan by a point. McDonald had fifteen, yes fifteen wides that day. He was aiming for goal from his own half of the field, the sideline, the bloody dressing room, and he was having a stinker. he point blank refused to allow any other Mayo player take scorable frees, he wouldn't pass to anyone and was a one man band. He was being comp[letely childish.
All players and management were disgusted with his attitude which then seeped into the crowd as well (Mayo needed the points badly for a win) and as you would expect, he was told to "go home McDonald" or "Grow Up McDonald" by more than a few spectators that day.
Next Tuesday, by way of media he announced his 'retirement' as his family had received personal abuse, when it was categorically not the case, McDonald himself received 'stick' nothing more.

Anyways, the be all and end all is that we're not good enough, with or without McDonald so ffs leave the matter last.

He was a great player on his day .... that's how I'll remember him .... but so was Noel Durkin, Liam McHale, Kevin McStay.

nuac

Mickey Moran was sacked for political reasons. The Mayo county Board should now have the decency to resign en masse.

Waylander

nuac wrote: »

Mickey Moran was sacked for political reasons. The Mayo county Board should now have the decency to resign en masse.

Why? For appointing the man the whole of Mayo was clamouring for before his appointment. Seriously, there must be something in the water in Mayo.

Damo.Smith

Do mayo even have the players to win them an all ireland?maybe there isnt much that o'mahony can do...

jmayo

Damo.Smith wrote: »

Do mayo even have the players to win them an all ireland?maybe there isnt much that o'mahony can do...

Got it in one. We have some decent players but not great players who when push comes to shove have the wherewithall to deliver an All-Ireland.
Saying that we should have taken Tyrone who now seem to limping along and are only a shadow of their former selves.

matrixroyal

I think Mayo could go all the way if they changed a few things.
They certainly have as good a conveyor belt of young players as any county, every year their minors / 21's are there abouts.

They need to add in a couple of rugged / enforcer / leader type players who could play down the spine of the team and would compliment the silky skills / nice football of the others. I am thinking of players who can stamp their authority on a game and drag the other players on, especially when the pressure is on. Players like McGeeney, John McDermott, Daragh o'Se ( in his prime ), Tohill, Mohnihan, Keith Barr. Surely in a large football mad county like Mayo, such men can be found.

I think Moran would have moulded a team capable if he was given another 2 years, he was shortchanged as was Maughan I think who always gave his all for Mayo.

Damo.Smith

i thought moran did a great job and was very harshly treated

Waylander

matrixroyal wrote: »

I think Mayo could go all the way if they changed a few things.
They certainly have as good a conveyor belt of young players as any county, every year their minors / 21's are there abouts.

They need to add in a couple of rugged / enforcer / leader type players who could play down the spine of the team and would compliment the silky skills / nice football of the others. I am thinking of players who can stamp their authority on a game and drag the other players on, especially when the pressure is on. Players like McGeeney, John McDermott, Daragh o'Se ( in his prime ), Tohill, Mohnihan, Keith Barr. Surely in a large football mad county like Mayo, such men can be found.

I think Moran would have moulded a team capable if he was given another 2 years, he was shortchanged as was Maughan I think who always gave his all for Mayo.

And now a 3rd consecutive manager will be. To be fair they do need players like the ones you mentioned, but having said that those players are picked from the entire country over a 20 year period so to say surely any county has that calibre of player is a bit unrealistic.

prendy

GAA people in mayo are like sheep, they go with popular oppinion. 2 years ago most people wanted o mahony as manager. we got rid of him 17 years earlier because of public oppinion but wen he's successful we want him back.
Omahony shouldnt have taken the job because Mayo people are demanding immediate success from their managers, it has become a poisoned chalice as such. Look at Moran. he got the boot for losing 1 Championship game!

Maughan was the best manager we've had in the last 50 years no one can doubt that as his results speak for themselves, what does the people of Mayo do? turn on him... the simple fact is and always has been that we dont have the depth of class of players to win the All Ireland. people tend to look at what he didnt do(subs etc) instead of looking what he did do, and that is taking a div 3 team to back to back all ireland finals.

and as for the O Mahony/Brogan thing????

cop on! he might have been talented but he was on the beer full time and wasnt even close to sober never mind fit to play inter county football.

matrixroyal

Waylander,
Ok, fair point, but what I mean is that there must be a few tough nuts around the county who could be picked for their stubbornness, toughness, leadership, organisational skills, ability to stick rigidly to a gameplan.

At the moment there seems to be plenty of good athletes / nice footballers but not as many in the Mayo team at present with the above qualities.

kevmy

matrixroyal wrote: »

I think Mayo could go all the way if they changed a few things.
They certainly have as good a conveyor belt of young players as any county, every year their minors / 21's are there abouts.

They need to add in a couple of rugged / enforcer / leader type players who could play down the spine of the team and would compliment the silky skills / nice football of the others. I am thinking of players who can stamp their authority on a game and drag the other players on, especially when the pressure is on. Players like McGeeney, John McDermott, Daragh o'Se ( in his prime ), Tohill, Mohnihan, Keith Barr. Surely in a large football mad county like Mayo, such men can be found.

I think Moran would have moulded a team capable if he was given another 2 years, he was shortchanged as was Maughan I think who always gave his all for Mayo.

In fairness to the young lads it will take another couple of years to take them all the way. We hadn't won a minor title in a while up until this year.

We certainly need leaders coming through. But keep in mind we've lost a lot of them over the last 2 years

The team needed to be rebuilt. We had obvious problems in both 04 and 06 which needed rectification. Moran was not the man for that job, he was only willing to give another year.

Maughan undoubtedly gave it his all and he was unlucky to some extent that he didn't win at least one AI. If he had he would have been a hero. The old saying though "Victory has a thousand fathers, failure is an orphan" Maughan made some mistakes and ended up being that orphan

Damo.Smith wrote: »

i thought moran did a great job and was very harshly treated

Well he also made mistakes. He didn't even look at the 04 final and went out and made all the same mistakes all over again in 06. He seemed to be lead by DB, Mac, O'Neill, Heany and co as much as he was leading them. He was only willing to sign on for one more year and he had falling out with Morrison who's training was as important as Moran's management imo.

The way it was done wasn't pretty alright but a rebuilding job was necessary and I personally don't think he wanted that or was the man for that job. Not saying he wasn't badly treated by the county board though

Waylander

matrixroyal wrote: »

Waylander,
Ok, fair point, but what I mean is that there must be a few tough nuts around the county who could be picked for their stubbornness, toughness, leadership, organisational skills, ability to stick rigidly to a gameplan.

At the moment there seems to be plenty of good athletes / nice footballers but not as many in the Mayo team at present with the above qualities.

Yeah I know what you are saying alright, for years I have been saying to myself there must be someone in Dublin who can kick a free kick over the bar, now I am thinking there must be a decent full back somewhere. Kevmy, to my mind Morans first mistake was taking the Mayo job, if O Mahony gets the bullet Mayo may well struggle to find anyone else interested in the job. 2 of the last 3 manager got sacked after losing AI finals and the 3 of the 3 was nearly a countywide unanimous appointment, and still he got sacked too.

Culchie

Waylander wrote: »

Yeah I know what you are saying alright, for years I have been saying to myself there must be someone in Dublin who can kick a free kick over the bar, now I am thinking there must be a decent full back somewhere. Kevmy, to my mind Morans first mistake was taking the Mayo job, if O Mahony gets the bullet Mayo may well struggle to find anyone else interested in the job. 2 of the last 3 manager got sacked after losing AI finals and the 3 of the 3 was nearly a countywide unanimous appointment, and still he got sacked too.

There's a fellah playing for Charlestown who missed his first free of last years championship, and didn't miss one after that ..... something like a 31/32 record.

A little bird told me Pierce Hanley is back in Ballaghaderreen from Austrailia, pity we couldn't stumble pass Tyrone last weekend. I knew that 30th spot on the panel was being left open for a good reason.

dodgyme

Culchie wrote: »

pity we couldn't stumble pass Tyrone last weekend. .

One point seperated Mayo from Tyrone. I wonder has there been any realignment of attitudes from the contributors here considering tyrone are in the final.?

Culchie

dodgyme wrote: »

One point seperated Mayo from Tyrone. I wonder has there been any realignment of attitudes from the contributors here considering tyrone are in the final.?

In fairness, if we had stumbled pass them (and we had the chance to) this was not to be our year....just not good enough yet.

We will be though ... there is some cracking players on the fringes now, bigger and stronger than our 'pretty teams' and we've a very good manager as well (as was Micky Moran).

Cafferty and O'Shea (minors) could play for Mayo seniors tomorrow morning. Parsons is only 19, we're in the minor final (thrashing a good Kerry team) .... the team is extremely young and talented.

They need guidance, and we need just a little more patience.

Within 3 years is my prediction.

westernisland

johnnos remit was to dampen down expectations in the county he has certainly done that,he has beaten in championship two notable scalps cavan and sligo.
mayo blew connaught final on poor team selection
he was handed a team that had reached two all ireland finals proceeded to make rubbish out of them now he cant even win a connaught title

dodgyme

westernisland wrote: »

johnnos remit was to dampen down expectations in the county he has certainly done that,he has beaten in championship two notable scalps cavan and sligo.
mayo blew connaught final on poor team selection
he was handed a team that had reached two all ireland finals proceeded to make rubbish out of them now he cant even win a connaught title

Few things I cant understand. why give him the job to "dampen down" expectations when you give it to him after reaching an ALL ireland final. Why would you do that. Now I did fairly quickly hear word of rebuilding quite early on which make no sense when it should have been to push on for one more game and collect sam. Initially thats why I taught he was required. Is there one rule for JOM and one rule for Mickey Moran?