Should the Rock get one more chance?

CyberDave

Read an article in the Indo at lunch about Diarmuid O'Sullivan and whether or not he should keep his place on the team for Sunday. What do people think, Should the Rock get one more chance?

premierstone

Definitely not, as the saying goes ''Time waits for no man'' if he starts i think whatever chance Cork have is gone, just look at he's body language when he was substituted against Clare, he actually looked relieved and slightly embarrassed, loyalty is all well and good but it doesnt win all irelands and you certaily cant afford to be carrying a passenger against Kilkenny.

hawkwing

I'd shove him up full forward in a surprise move after naming him to start at no 3, anything could happen then but would be worth a shot and cats would be unsettled a bit.--5 subs to come on if not working after 15-20 mins.

CyberDave

I don't think he is worth his place. It was obvious from the last two games, that when he was called ashore, Cork improved. Leaving him off then means Gardiner will probably drop back. Gardiner has done well with his move back in the last two games, but it might not work so well against Shefflin. I think Kilkenny will try and exploit Gardiners inexperience in the position. Is 'The Rock' now finished or is it just a drop in form? Cork have tried him at full-forward during the league but quickly abandoned that plan.

premierstone

CyberDave wrote: »

Is 'The Rock' now finished or is it just a drop in form? Cork have tried him at full-forward during the league but quickly abandoned that plan.

No i think he's finished at this level once the legs go there's no way back, as for playing him full forward tbh if there isnt a better full forward in Cork then theres something seriously wrong, no point in trying to find a position for him if he's not good enough to play fullback and imo he's not then he shouldnt start at all

bill_ashmount

He will be playing. There is no natural full-back replacement.

run_Forrest_run

I agree with bill_ashmount, I think he will be starting on Sunday. It's worth seeing how he copes...if it's not going well then action can be taken. It's better this way instead of not starting him and if his replacement doesn't work out then they may be left with no options than to bring him on and hope for the best...Gorta and Eddie would love to see him coming on! ...ah and btw, up the Cats!

Either way, lets hope we see a good game and that the weather won't ruin it (or the presence of Cummins balls )

buck65

The Rock is and has been a liability for Cork at full back for some time. He was at fault for a soft goal vs Kilkenny in an all ireland a couple years back. Joe Canning and Niall Gilligan have both absolutely destroyed him recently.
I bet Kilkenny would love to see him at 3 on Sunday.

yahoo_moe

hawkwing wrote: »

I'd shove him up full forward in a surprise move after naming him to start at no 3, anything could happen then but would be worth a shot and cats would be unsettled a bit.--5 subs to come on if not working after 15-20 mins.

What's wrong with the Cork forwards?

Personally, I've never been a huge fan of O'Sullivan's anyway but on his last few showings, he's dipped even further in terms of his contribution and form. However, I think this should have been sorted sooner than on the eve of an All-Ireland semi-final against Kilkenny - and I certainly wouldn't be taking Tom Kenny out of midfield to cover Gardiner at wing back.

Interesting article in this week's Tribune about how a number 3 these days might end up marking a number of different style players during a match, requiring a much wider set of skills than previously - there's no more fluid forward line in the country than Kilkenny's and I think Gardiner could struggle as much as O'Sullivan against a mobile forward line switching positions constantly. Which means I'd maybe leave Gardiner and Kenny in their strongest positions and try and limit the damage further out the field.

premierstone

run_Forrest_run wrote: »

I agree with bill_ashmount, I think he will be starting on Sunday. It's worth seeing how he copes...if it's not going well then action can be taken. It's better this way instead of not starting him and if his replacement doesn't work out then they may be left with no options than to bring him on and hope for the best...Gorta and Eddie would love to see him coming on! ...ah and btw, up the Cats!

Either way, lets hope we see a good game and that the weather won't ruin it (or the presence of Cummins balls )

You cant do this against KK though, they can bury any team in 10 or 15 mins, the rock has already been beaten in this years championship by Lar Corbett, Joe Canning and Niall Gilligan (and to a lesser extent Michael Webster) so how anyone thinks he will be able to handle Henry Shefflin is really beyond me.

CyberDave

bill_ashmount wrote: »

He will be playing. There is no natural full-back replacement.

This is probably why he has lasted so long there. If Cork had a replacement to slot straight in at full-back then they might not have stuggled like they did in the first half of the last two games. It's more to do with a lack of cover than his reputation. When he was replaced against Clare there had to be a switch in every line up the field, proving there is no direct cover for his position.

Damo.Smith

definitely give him 1 more chance...there will be too much diruption if Gardiner has to go to full back and kenny to wing back

Lex Luthor

if he lines out, then I'm gonna throw in my hat cos Kilkenny will make the most of it and take a huge advantage into the break and there is no way Cork will come back again in the 2nd half against them like they did against Galway & Clare

Daysha

Should he start: No
Will he start: Yes

corcaighcailin9

I think he should get another chance. There's no doubt he's been below par so far this season but he knows that better than anyone else. If he gets the nod, he knows he has to raise his game. He might have lost a yard or two of pace but the fact is we have nobody with as much experience as a natural full back - yes Gardiner could play there but I think that should be a last resort and he has already stated on radio today that while he would play anywhere he was selected, he prefers playing wing back. That to me sounds like whoever is wearing no.3 on Sunday, it won't be our captain.
We'll know when the first ball goes in the KK full forward if Sully's on form or not. Let's give him the benefit if he is selected.
Come on the rebels!!

Orizio

bill_ashmount wrote: »

He will be playing. There is no natural full-back replacement.

Gardiner has shown he can do a job back there, and someone like Sean Og is another option.

In the long term, its either Gardiner or the young U-21 corner back O'Callaghan as full back.

If Diarmuid does play it will be because they don't want to disrupt the middle third.

CyberDave

Orizio wrote: »

Gardiner has shown he can do a job back there, and someone like Sean Og is another option.

In the long term, its either Gardiner or the young U-21 corner back O'Callaghan as full back.

If Diarmuid does play it will be because they don't want to disrupt the middle third.

Sure all of them could do the job but none of them are naturals like O'Sullivan is in the position and could eventually slip up, especially with the test of Kilkenny. By leaving him out. Almost the whole Cork team will be reshuffled. I'm starting to think he will start.

Orizio

I'm sure he will start, but Sully's form, natural full back or not, has been slipping for a few years now, and particurly against Kilkenny where Comerford has repeatedly destroyed him. I'd rather shuffle the team, someone like Kenny would be just as comfortable and dynamic at wing back as he would be in midfield.

The Cork football/hurling teams should have been named by now, any news?

eigrod

Team announced. Sully starts. Same team as started v Clare.

Footballers unchanged also apparantly

Orizio

The footballers is more of a suprise, Alan O' Connor starts?

corcaighcailin9

No great surprise there with Sully starting. Hopefully we'll be talking about an inspired decision come Sunday evening....

Orizio

According to RebelGAA, both teams are indeed staying the same. That means no Cussen from the start.

Whatever about the hurlers, sticking with the same 15 in the football is quite incredible, considering we have Miskella, Cussen, Shields, O' Leary, Masters, Goold, O' Sullivan, Kissane etc siting on the bench. Maybe they are playing silly bugger, or giving the likes of Alan O' Connor a chance to redeem themselves. Either way, the selection stinks of complacency.

At the very least I would have Miskella (for O'Brien), Cussen (for A O'Connor) and Shields (for K O'Connor) starting, although I don't hate the idea of being able to spring Masters and Cussen from the bench if things are in the balance.

corcaighcailin9

I think Cussen and Masters from the bench are great plan b's tbh.

Orizio

Beyond them though, Shields and Miskella were two of our best players last year, and the former is one of the best young defenders in the country. Hopefully the Cork selectors want to ease those two back into the team for the semi, assuming we get there.

Anyway, there is something to be said for playing your best team and playing your players in their best positions (Nic Murphy is an all star midfielder for example, not a wing forward). TBH I'm getting the feeling they have picked a team with one eye on the semi, which is rather risky.

I'm sure we will win and win handy enough, but I'd be worried if they started with this team for the semi.

CyberDave

eigrod wrote: »

Team announced. Sully starts. Same team as started v Clare.

Footballers unchanged also apparantly

The cats will be licking their lips. Comerford or Shefflin will destroy O'Sullivan on his current form.

Lex Luthor

CyberDave wrote: »

The cats will be licking their lips. Comerford or Shefflin will destroy O'Sullivan on his current form.

This is very bad news......


As for the football, that 15 should beat Kildare..if they don't then at least we have a few stars on the bench to make sure they do.

premierstone

Cork hurlers have a training panel of 32 and yet they have no replacement full back

Brian Cody must think all he's christmas's have come at once, looks like it will be up to the Premier to stop the three in a row

Orizio

premierstone wrote: »

Cork hurlers have a training panel of 32 and yet they have no replacement full back

Brian Cody must think all he's christmas's have come at once, looks like it will be up to the Premier to stop the three in a row

Just from the bench? Not really, no. I understand John O' Callaghan is being groomed for the position down the line but right now he is still only 19/20 with little experience.

The rest are S Murphy (back up corner back) and wing backs like Cadogan, McGann and Hartnett. Cian O' Connor is a last resort at full back, he has repeatedly shown to be not up to it at this level. And our under-21 full back isn't on the squad.

So right now its really Gardiner or Sully.

premierstone

Orizio wrote: »

S Murphy (back up corner back)

Is that the guy who came on when O'Sullivan went off with a blood injury against Galway??

mousey007

I think Sully will do fine at the weekend...he will be very focused and will show what a class act he still is

Orizio

premierstone wrote: »

Is that the guy who came on when O'Sullivan went off with a blood injury against Galway??

I think so, he also played when we lost against Tipp last year in the qualifiers. Has played a bit in the league over the last few years, but he is basically a corner back and those spots are taken.

mousey007

have the subs been named for the hurlers?

premierstone

Orizio wrote: »

I think so, he also played when we lost against Tipp last year in the qualifiers. Has played a bit in the league over the last few years, but he is basically a corner back and those spots are taken.

I thought he did really well for the few minutes he was on, i know you cant really judge a guy from such a short time on the pitch, but i just remember been quite impressed and absolutely amazed when they decided to bring O'Sullivan back on.

premierstone

mousey007 wrote: »

have the subs been named for the hurlers?

You can have 30 togged out so only 2 players will miss out

Theres 33 on the Tipp panel and no injuries i believe training has been fierce lately with no-one wanting to be one of the three left out.

Orizio

mousey007 wrote: »

have the subs been named for the hurlers?

Probably I'll take a look around...

Orizio

premierstone wrote: »

I thought he did really well for the few minutes he was on, i know you cant really judge a guy from such a short time on the pitch, but i just remember been quite impressed and absolutely amazed when they decided to bring O'Sullivan back on.

Its a matter of consistency really, over the 70 minutes he seems to make a couple of mistakes that others don't, struggles a bit under pressure and isn't exaclty the strongest or tallest.

Anyway, Shane O' Neill and Brian Murphy are two of the best corner backs in the country, won't be any shifting of either of them for at least another 5 years, unless Shane replaces Sean Og at wing back.

premierstone

Does anyone else agree with me that Jerry O'Connor has been a complete passenger this year and that Tom Kenny is carrying him?

mousey007

he hasnt been his best but i wouldnt call him a passenger

yahoo_moe

premierstone wrote: »

Does anyone else agree with me that Jerry O'Connor has been a complete passenger this year and that Tom Kenny is carrying him?

Kind of - certainly hasn't hit the heights of previous years, but neither have Seán Óg (like much of last year), Ronan Curran (not consistently anyway) or, as discussed, O'Sullivan. I don't think Jerry O'Connor has been utterly useless but it's hard to judge when his previous levels were so high.

Where I don't agree with you, though, is:

premierstone wrote: »

looks like it will be up to the Premier to stop the three in a row

I still think Waterford have a shout (and I'm from Dublin by the way, although obviously you might just be trying to rise the Deise folk)

Pappy o' daniel

premierstone wrote: »

Does anyone else agree with me that Jerry O'Connor has been a complete passenger this year and that Tom Kenny is carrying him?

Passenger? No way, he hasn't been tapping over his usual 2 points a game but he's had more of the ball than any other cork player this year.

mousey007

jerry along with tom kenny are still the best midfield by some distance in the country

premierstone

yahoo_moe wrote: »

Where I don't agree with you, though, is:

I still think Waterford have a shout (and I'm from Dublin by the way, although obviously you might just be trying to rise the Deise folk)

No no not trying to rise anyone at all i just think that Tipp are best equipped out of the three remaining challengers to KK, in that imo the best way to beat KK is to counteract there sort of swarm like defence is to pass to the man in space and i think in the league final and also in patches in the munster final (last ten minutes first half and first ten minutes second half) Tipp showed that they can play this game very well, again im not trying to rise anyone or start an arguement but i think while waterford do what they do very well and therre is a beuatifull rawness to their hurling at time i think they are too predictable and naive at times.

corcaighcailin9

Lads, I think it's foolish to write off Sully. He knows how close he has come to losing his place in the team so I can only imagine how fired up he is now. I think it's ridiculous to say Cody must think it's Christmas etc.
As for JOC and the rest, very few have performed to the high standards they have set themselves over the last couple of years but the most important thing is we're still in the championship.
Write us off at your peril!
Come on the Rebels!!

yahoo_moe

premierstone wrote: »

No no not trying to rise anyone at all i just think that Tipp are best equipped out of the three remaining challengers to KK, in that imo the best way to beat KK is to counteract there sort of swarm like defence is to pass to the man in space and i think in the league final and also in patches in the munster final (last ten minutes first half and first ten minutes second half) Tipp showed that they can play this game very well, again im not trying to rise anyone or start an arguement but i think while waterford do what they do very well and therre is a beuatifull rawness to their hurling at time i think they are too predictable and naive at times.

Nicely put Thought you were already looking to the final - a dangerous prospect after such a long lay-off (relative to Waterford) from Championship hurling.

Best of luck though, I'm hoping for a cracking match

Orizio

Jerry and Sean Og have had fine years, two of our best players imo.

Curran has been blowing quite hot and cold this year though, usually over the space of one game. The ball seems to be bouncing out of his hand more then usual as well.

Pappy o' daniel

Gardiner and o hailpin were tried at full back during the league and it didn't work. Diarmids the only man for the job.

My worry is that sully seems to have lost confidence in himself this year, he's fouling too much, and he overreacts to high balls.

Orizio

Gardiner did fine back there in the last two games, the league means nothing at this stage.

Saying that, Sully will probably have a stormer on Sunday just to prove most of us wrong.

Orizio

mousey007 wrote: »

have the subs been named for the hurlers?

Its probably the same minus the injured Kevin Canty.

BTW, the Cork local the Evening Echo suggested that the Cork football team that was announced might be changed by Sunday.

corcaighcailin9

Orizio wrote: »

Sully will probably have a stormer on Sunday just to prove most of us wrong.

I can see that happening too and I'd be delighted if it did.

Whatever about Sully's confidence the fact he's starting will be a huge boost to him and I'm sure he'll repay Gerald's faith... ever the optimist I am

Pappy o' daniel

Gardiner was yards off canning in the galway game. If a change has to be made, I would prefer O hailpin, hes a much tighter man marker, and won't be bossed physically. Also Gardiner is too useful to remove from half back (imo).

Lex Luthor

its only wed and already the tension is building......