Having to Pay for RTE in NI post DSO!

Digifriendly

According to Radio Ulster's 'Talkback' programme today, viewers here in NI will have to pay for the privilege of watching RTE after analogue shutdown in 2012. Surely the new DTT service will be free (most of those watching RTE in NI like myself do so via an aerial) or will it be a pay platform? Also will one STB do for both UKDTT and ROI DTT? Finally, are DTT signals from e.g. Clermont Carn likely to travel as far north as analogue signals do?

Mossy Monk

The four terrestrials will certainly be free. Can you receive a DTT signal from Clermont Carn now?

Digifriendly

Mossy Monk wrote: »

The four terrestrials will certainly be free. Can you receive a DTT signal from Clermont Carn now?

Yes, a very good signal on all 4 channels via a Triax 52 element aerial with masthead amp. Thanks for prompt reply.

icdg

Hmm, well we in the South will (according to Boxer's plans) have to pay for the privelege of watching BBC NI terrestrially after 2012, so what's sauce for the goose is surely sauce for the gander???

To answer the questions - the Republic's DTT service will be a mainly pay-DTT service, except for one multiplex which will carry the four Irish terrestrials, perhaps two extra RTÉ channels, coverage of the Dáil (the Irish Parliament) and an Irish Film Channel (which will likely show a mixture of Irish-produced, arthouse, and foreign language films). The rest of the service including the BBC will be subscription. Think the old ONdigital service but with even less FTA channels.

If the STB can do both MPEG-2 and MPEG-4, it will do for both Freeview and Irish DTT. But you'll need to be near-ish the border to get Irish DTT.

Oh, and this thread belongs in the Terrestrial forum.

MACHEAD

If the aerial configuration is set up with the same restrictions as the DTT tests on Three Rock and Clermont, then its possible that very little signal will get 'up our way'. Then of course you'll need an MPEG 4 compliant set top box, currently the UK ones are all MPEG 2. Our only hope is that by some miracle the politicians on both sides of the border will see the sense of co-ordinating coverage of as much area as possible. If not, then we (in the north) will be stuck with an ROI Sky sub indefinitely! That's what I'm using now, I was hoping to be able to get shot of sky before 2012, now this puts things in very grey area.

Digifriendly

MACHEAD wrote: »

If the aerial configuration is set up with the same restrictions as the DTT tests on Three Rock and Clermont, then its possible that very little signal will get 'up our way'. Then of course you'll need an MPEG 4 compliant set top box, currently the UK ones are all MPEG 2. Our only hope is that by some miracle the politicians on both sides of the border will see the sense of co-ordinating coverage of as much area as possible. If not, then we (in the north) will be stuck with an ROI Sky sub indefinitely! That's what I'm using now, I was hoping to be able to get shot of sky before 2012, now this puts things in very grey area.

Remember one of the deficiencies of receiving RTE via Sky Digital is the blanking out of certain programmes due to copyright and sports rights issues. So if things proceed as you indicate many viewers in NI like myself will be at a major disadvantage except RTE are permitted to do what TG4 has done i.e. be rebroadcast terrestially from a transmitter(s) in NI. I may be wrong here but I think TG4 were allowed to do this due to GFA and promise to promote Irish language throughout the island. However can you imagine the furore among gaelic football/hurling supporters here in NI if they cannot receive RTE except by subscription through Sky Digital post 2012!

MACHEAD

I agree totally digifriendly, BBC NI do try their best at gaelic coverage but they just aren't in the same league as RTÉ. We absolutely do need a decent irish TV service up here, whither its overspill across the border or carried on the northern 'Freeview' platform post DVB-T2, (in reality I cant see it happening before that). I did specify that my Sky sub is an irish one, I have the irish EPG, so no 'blanking out' or irritating 'program not available' banner on RTÉ. It means I get all the irish channels, but loose out on some UK ones, any of those we really 'must see' we can get via DTT from Divis. Of course using an ROI veiwing card up here isn't allowed strictly speaking, so for legal purposes ignore my 'location' because "I have a Dublin address".
No honestly, I have!

Digifriendly

MACHEAD wrote: »

I agree totally digifriendly, BBC NI do try their best at gaelic coverage but they just aren't in the same league as RTÉ. We absolutely do need a decent irish TV service up here, whither its overspill across the border or carried on the northern 'Freeview' platform post DVB-T2, (in reality I cant see it happening before that). I did specify that my Sky sub is an irish one, I have the irish EPG, so no 'blanking out' or irritating 'program not available' banner on RTÉ. It means I get all the irish channels, but loose out on some UK ones, any of those we really 'must see' we can get via DTT from Divis.

Just out of interest is your sub then paid to an address in ROI?

MACHEAD

Digifriendly wrote: »

Just out of interest is your sub then paid to an address in ROI?

It's rather complicated, but the short answer is yes.

Digifriendly

MACHEAD wrote: »

It's rather complicated, but the short answer is yes.

Apologies if question seemed a bit nosy or impertinent. It wasn't intended to be so. Just looking ahead to 2012 and wondering about how I might pick up RTE then if it is not possible via an aerial. I do enjoy their sports coverage especially.

MACHEAD

Not a problem digifriendly, I didn't interpret the question that way, I'm sure people are interested in how you can do this! But that would be a subject for the satellite forum. Lets all hope that it wont be necessary for any more of us to pursue that route after DSO, and we'll have irish DTT as easily as we can still get analogue now. Boxer's proposed coverage maps look interesting, I can't remember which thread I saw them in now, but by Q1 of 2013 they look to have covered a large part of 'the North'. It'll be interesting to see how that pans out. In the meantime I suppose we'll keep an eye on the boards here to see who'll be first 'up here' to get their hands on an MPEG4 STB and get a confirmed channel scan from Clermont Carn. Hang on I've just remembered I downloaded those maps, I'll attach the 2013 one! Nope it too big, I'll scale it down a bit and post later.

lucernarian

The FTA mux will be broadcasting by ASO on Ch 53 at a power only slightly less than the current RTÉ analogue tx. Assuming directional restrictions aren't going to change, coverage into NI from Clermont will be pretty good. It's had to know in comparison to analogue, as people will tolerate a poorish signal on analogue, where it wouldn't work if it were digital.

If your existing pictures have little snow or grainy colours, you will almost certainly be fine. My experience with the trial and a bit of estimation says that you'll get a fairly reliable DTT signal if you can manage teletext with limited errors, but that could turn out to be false.

Edit: I would say the Q1 2013 map is somewhat pessimistic. If RTENL use the same grounds for coverage as arquiva and the DTG in the UK use then coverage will be usually higher than the map indicates.

Mayo Exile

MACHEAD, this map from Boxers application shows the coverage timeframe. Note the difference between Q3 2010 and Q3 2011. By the end of 2011 coverage seems to reach well into parts of Co. Antrim. I'm not a techie so how are they planning to do this?

Coverage map: http://www.bci.ie/DTT/boxer/licencea_section7_print.pdf

Link to all documents and maps: http://www.bci.ie/DTT/licensing.html

MACHEAD

Hi mayo exile, Yes those are the maps I was talking about. Resolution is not dead good, when I zoom the image to see location names, it all goes a bit 'you-tubey'. I remember seeing a coverage map of Clermont Carn (Ch52) and it was surprising how far north it spreads. But a lot depends on where you are and the kind of terrain your in etc. Best I can judge from the Q1/2013 map I will be borderline as to whither I will get anything or not (stuck down in a valley). I've just been summonsed to 'go shopping', I suppose if I want any dinner tomorrow I better sign off
Q1 2013 map - http://www.bci.ie/DTT/boxer/map_q1-2013.jpg

scath

Just to add, to the debate, fair play to the RTÉ for trying to solve this one down here and also up North by suggesting reciprocal on nil or matching cost of the NI channels on the ROI DTT mux and the Irish ones and the Freeview ones, I suppose for NI that would be in 2013. See: http://www.independent.ie/business/media/the-death-of-analogue-tv-is-nigh-long-live-digital-1267905.html But, guess what, UPC cried fowl about state-aid rules and apparently made a complaint about it to the European Commission. Later they went into bed with RTÉ which was a funny U turn.

The issue in fairness was UPC are charged royalties for BBC and ITV. I think at the time they must have overlooked that if they combod with DTT FTA, disabled the DTT pay functionality by agreement with RTÉ they could save royalty payments by droping these off cable and saving spectrum. Nowt to stop cable in NI, virgin is it, doing he same up there. IE 1 box, 2 remotes if (1 for TV, the other for the combo box. Of course with the digital TV, the cable co would have to come over and disable the subscription slot as part of the deal,which the customer would have to agree to or if they wanted they could have two subs running for different packages. Maybe disabling wouldn't be needed for cable. The advantage is cable is always there to upgrade to at the end of contract.

The solution is the mux, but you'd have to take 1 off boxer, which you'd have to give them a reduction in fees on account of. What would happen. for the BBC we'd probably have to give them a little of the TV license as a royalty as they would make no money from ads. But surely that'd be better than paying subs. On the other hand, perhaps our stormont friends would pay the contribution on our behalf, since we're helping them on the off-shoot from the IFSC that Cowen and Robinson announced.

As regards boxes, incompatible boxes will be temporary but by 2012 will be compatible because of PSB Mux3 on Freeview will migrate Irish IDTVs to T2 aswell as MPEG4.

RTÉ must be rightly concerned that paying for UK terrestrials down south could drive people to skip DTT for Freesat as RTÉ international are due on Freesat UK in the new year. See:http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2008/07/20/story34600.asp

On the content rights issue, the Irish and UK government could agree to programme rights being bought jointly by 1 UK and 1 ROI broadcaster which could both show a programme in either jurisdiction in an Ofcom-BAI agreement.

btw, what would be the feeling up there if TV3s rich backers Doughty Hanson & Co acquired UTV plc to get into radio which they have failed to up til now. Could be called UTV3 to keep all happy. Much programming is shown at same time, keep UTV News and TV3 News and even ITV News. Advertising wise it'd be a real winner, strengthen TV3s hand with ITV programme buys. Indeed maybe ITV might like to buy out an UTV3 to maximise their ITV channels? After all, Doughty are a venture capital company and if they got a good price might they not be happy to make a handsome return on investment.

The DTT multiplexes are meant to be using 64QAM once the MPEG-4 transmissions begin. Those who were able to get the MPEG-2 trial might not be able to get the MPEG-4 service as a result, because 64QAM requires a cleaner signal.

watty

Liberty Global own UPC. But the RTE bis was NOT with UPC, but Liberty Global.

lucernarian

Wouldn't be so sure about the reality of the arrangement watty.

I saw a document on the bci website where they kept the details of the licence applications from the RTÉ-Liberty Global application. I think it was the list of the transmitter rollout and the timescale or some appendix similar to it. Written in pen in the corner of the document was RTÉ/UPC. It would be safe to say that RTÉ dealt with them.