Z4 vs s2000

Ferris

Right lads, I think that I am finally getting close to deciding what type of car I want (sure its only taken about 6 months:o).

I started looking into a Honda s2000, and I want one with a glass rear window so it'll need to be 2002my on. Great looking and they have a fantastic engine. I know people will say you have to rev the nuts out of it but I've driven one and its quick before the vtec kicks in, and when it does - its manic. Concerns are that the s2000 might fall into the scanger brigade and the interior is not that nice.

I haven't driven a Z4. I like the looks of them though. Obviously it'd be a 6-cyl 2.5 or 3L so the tax will be higher than for the honda. It has a nicer interior, more cred and is unlikely to fall into skangerdom. Also these engine are peaches by repute.

I'd be interested to hear what you all think.

Alanstrainor

I haven't driven either...But, i love the S2000, it's up there as one of my dream cars, great engine and styling is class. I wouldn't worry about dealing with the scanger brigade, just be happy in knowing you're driving a savage motor.
My 2cents...sorry i know it wasn't very helpful...

Biro

Ferris wrote: »

Right lads, I think that I am finally getting close to deciding what type of car I want (sure its only taken about 6 months:o).

I started looking into a Honda s2000, and I want one with a glass rear window so it'll need to be 2002my on. Great looking and they have a fantastic engine. I know people will say you have to rev the nuts out of it but I've driven one and its quick before the vtec kicks in, and when it does - its manic. Concerns are that the s2000 might fall into the scanger brigade and the interior is not that nice.

I haven't driven a Z4. I like the looks of them though. Obviously it'd be a 6-cyl 2.5 or 3L so the tax will be higher than for the honda. It has a nicer interior, more cred and is unlikely to fall into skangerdom. Also these engine are peaches by repute.

I'd be interested to hear what you all think.

I'd be of the opinion that the S2000 is more "frantic" in the way it delivers it's power than the Z4 might be. Have been in an S2000, not a Z4, so only speculating. Maybe go for the S2000 this year and change for a Z4 next year or the year after! That'd kind of be the natural progression I'd think - when you're looking for slightly more comfort and easier access to the power on tap.
Definately drive a 2.5 Z4 anyway to see, you'll get opinions on here, but it's your opinion that matters most. I don't think the S2000 will fall into skangerdom yet, too expensive still!

JHMEG

It's funny you mention cred. I see a lad driving an S2000 and I think "there's a lad that knows his motors". I see a lad driving a Z4 and can't but think that he would have bought a Z3 when they were on the go...

Ferris

JHMEG wrote: »

It's funny you mention cred. I see a lad driving an S2000 and I think "there's a lad that knows his motors". I see a lad driving a Z4 and can't but think that he would have bought a Z3 when they were on the go...

I see what you mean about the z3-z4 connection alright but I think 'those in the know' would see the 2.5 or 3.0L badge on boot and wing.

Both cars are beautifully engineered for a driving enthusiast, when I see someone driving one that what I think of.

Cosmo K

I see a lad driving a Z4 and can't but think that he would have bought a Z3 when they were on the go...

And? Whats wrong with a Z3? And don't tell me its a hairdressers car. I had the pleasure to drive a 2.8 Z3 for a weekend, pure fun to drive.

All this talk about .....oh thats not a mans car is ridiculous, the only "woman" or "hairdressers" car i can think of, is a pink Beetle Convertible....

JHMEG

Cosmo K wrote: »

And? Whats wrong with a Z3? And don't tell me its a hairdressers car. I had the pleasure to drive a 2.8 Z3 for a weekend, pure fun to drive.

All this talk about .....oh thats not a mans car is ridiculous, the only "woman" or "hairdressers" car i can think of, is a pink Beetle Convertible....

Why do people have to bring up hairdressers as soon as the Z3 is mentioned...

Victor_M

JHMEG wrote: »

Why do people have to bring up hairdressers as soon as the Z3 is mentioned...

Why do people bring up a Z3 when a Z4 is mentioned?

I've seen way too many threads spoiled by 'certain' people bringing up cars that the OP hadn't mentioned in the first place

JHMEG

Victor_M wrote: »

Why do people bring up a Z3 when a Z4 is mentioned?

Ferris wrote:

I'd be interested to hear what you all think.

Ferris doesn't have a problem with me bringing up the Z3. Why do you? (Don't answer that)

walshy123

i reckon z4. beaut of a car, and i would imagine a hell of alot more torque.

defo go drive a z4 and see which is the better drive. i always loved the s2k but i feel its getting a bit dated.

i was trying to decide between an elise and s2k, ended up going for a vx220

LolaDub

Ah Ferris definitely test a z4, i've been in a z4 ut not the s2000, z4 is a beast to drive!

SV

S2000, hell of a lot cooler car, better looking too.

You're not going to fall into any skanger category with one..the only hondas that skangers can afford to buy and insure are civics(and in rare cases integras!)

You'll have more fun in an s2000 I reckon..

Cyrus

s2000 more fun id imagine but z4 a more complete package and would be my choice but with the 3 litre engine

Ferris

Cyrus wrote: »

s2000 more fun id imagine but z4 a more complete package and would be my choice but with the 3 litre engine

Me too, although I wouldn't turn down a decent 2.5 either, its still a great engine. I see that I have to test a Z4 sometime soon:D as my mind is defo not made up.

TCP/IP

Having just recently sold my Z4 3.0 litre I can honestly say it is a super car and cannot speak highly enough about it. Get the 3 litre its an animal of a car to go and also deffo get an auto box its a peach. I test drove a S2000 and the are not even in the same league as they Z4. If you are the type of person who like evos and scoobies then the S2000 is for you if on the other hand you are not then the Z4 is the one to go for.

Victor_M

ClioV6 wrote: »

S2000, hell of a lot cooler car, better looking too.

You're not going to fall into any skanger category with one..the only hondas that skangers can afford to buy and insure are civics(and in rare cases integras!)

You'll have more fun in an s2000 I reckon..

I've seen way too many S2000 Jap imports tarted up with body kits - Seems to be inevitable that all sporty Honda's get ruined by skangers.

S2000 is a nice drive, although I felt it was very highly overrated, having to keep the revs up get tiresome very quickly.

Never driven a Z4, but have driven all of the BMW 6 cylinders and they are fantastic. The Z4 is very good looking in the right colour wheel combination and if I was going for one I'd shell out for the 3L the tax is only marginally more as would the insurance and the depreciation of the bigger engine would more or less have them at the same price as the smaller engined ones.

Beta Ray Bill

S2000 Mate.... all the way

Hondas go forever! we have a 14 year old petrol lawnmore thats STILL going and its a honda... Flymo have nothing on them! LOL

but seriously
the S2000 is a great car

Ferris

Victor_M wrote: »

I've seen way too many S2000 Jap imports tarted up with body kits - Seems to be inevitable that all sporty Honda's get ruined by skangers.

Thats what I'm worried about alright.

I think I'll ring up about a drive in this one:

http://usedcars.sarsfieldmotors.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=1117799

Cmar-Ireland

TCP/IP wrote: »

If you are the type of person who like evos and scoobies then the S2000 is for you if on the other hand you are not then the Z4 is the one to go for.

I think this nails it perfectly...

Vertakill

As big of a Jap fan as I am.. the Z4 wins this one I think. Slicker and more modern design, super engine and an awful lot nicer interior.

One other thing, skangers in S2000's? I've literally never ever seen a skanger in an S2000. Seriously, how would they afford one? They're not exactly cheap.

TCP/IP

Ferris wrote: »

Thats what I'm worried about alright.

I think I'll ring up about a drive in this one:

http://usedcars.sarsfieldmotors.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=1117799

That is my old car mate

Victor_M

Ferris wrote: »

Thats what I'm worried about alright.

I think I'll ring up about a drive in this one:

http://usedcars.sarsfieldmotors.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=1117799

Nice Colour.

If you do look at that one, make sure you get the VIN and ring BMW Ireland or one of the (remaining) main dealers and have the history full checked up on the car, particularly the mileage, just to be on the safe side.

Edit: Just saw TCP/IP's comment there, he can verify all that stuff for you.

Ferris

TCP/IP wrote: »

That is my old car mate

Unbelievable, it looks to be a nice car alright. Did you trade it in to them or was it passed on from a main dealer?

Furp

A relative just recently purchased a Z4 the 2.5Si edition with 18inch wheels in black, for a long time it was a toss up between an S2000 and a Z4.

I had a drive in it recently and it is very nice, good road holding, nice sound from the engine and a lovely acceleration feel right form low down in the rev range and this was before flipping the the sport button which tightens the suspension and increases the throttle response. the only other two seater I have driven was an MR2 but that had a very different feel partically due to the mid engine arrangement.

I think the Z4 can look really class with the right combination of colour and wheel size, go and drive them both and let us know what you think. for my money I think the Z4 would be my preference.

JimmyCrackCorn!

Just for the engine. It would have to be the S2000 every time.
I got a spin in one once and they are fantastic car.

Anyone who is looking for a convertible sports car should at least test drive the Honda.

Kamili

I've just recently bought the s2000, its AMAZING. I wouldn't be a fan of the Z4 as the tax would kill me on it being the bigger litre engine. The S has been voted the top gear most satisfying car to own since 2004. That said the clutch is hard to use in heavy traffic and I've quite often come out of the car with a very sore left foot. I think comfort wize and dublin traffic I would (If I could afford the tax) go for an automatic Z4 as the honda really doesn't like the traffic situation at all, its really a car that needs alot of high revving to keep the engine pristine. It is a fantastic car to own though above all that and it keeps its resale value too. I do love it to bits and would reccomend it to anyone!

I think the best thing to do would be to test drive both and take them out in heavy traffic and on a motorway as both the cars would drive very differently in both situations.

cpoh1

TCP/IP wrote: »

Having just recently sold my Z4 3.0 litre I can honestly say it is a super car and cannot speak highly enough about it. Get the 3 litre its an animal of a car to go and also deffo get an auto box its a peach. I test drove a S2000 and the are not even in the same league as they Z4. If you are the type of person who like evos and scoobies then the S2000 is for you if on the other hand you are not then the Z4 is the one to go for.

Translate:If you are interested in looks and prestige go for the bmw if you like driving your car go for the s2000.

The only league difference between these two cars is the badge on the bonnet and the snobbery that goes with it. The S can match the Z4 in every department, looks, performance and build quality. The Z4 does have a nicer interior and the sound off the 6 cylinder with the roof down would be lovely too but to think they are in different leagues is waaaay off the mark (or should that be marque?).

Id be inclined to go with the Z4 if it was a choice between two newer versions and i had a big wad of cash to spend, however id just go away and buy a nicely depreciated 2000 model s2k for less than 15k. Half the price, just as much fun and less money lost on resale when the time comes. Cheaper to tax, insure and run on a daily basis.

Ferris

Kamili wrote: »

I think comfort wize and dublin traffic I would (If I could afford the tax) go for an automatic Z4 as the honda really doesn't like the traffic situation at all, its really a car that needs alot of high revving to keep the engine pristine. .

Good point, 90% of my driving is in Dublin traffic.

Ferris

cpoh1 wrote: »

Translate:If you are interested in looks and prestige go for the bmw if you like driving your car go for the s2000.

The only league difference between these two cars is the badge on the bonnet and the snobbery that goes with it. The S can match the Z4 in every department, looks, performance and build quality. The Z4 does have a nicer interior and the sound off the 6 cylinder with the roof down would be lovely too but to think they are in different leagues is waaaay off the mark (or should that be marque?).

Id be inclined to go with the Z4 if it was a choice between two newer versions and i had a big wad of cash to spend, however id just go away and buy a nicely depreciated 2000 model s2k for less than 15k. Half the price, just as much fun and less money lost on resale when the time comes. Cheaper to tax, insure and run on a daily basis.

I'm sure that the BMW is a great drivers car especially with the larger 6's.

I don't really care about badges and I don't think it really matters to the two cars here because they're both such good drivers cars.

If I was getting an s2000 it would be post '02 as these had a heated glass rear screen. The plastic rear screens are liable to split and that means a new hood most of the time. These are actually comparible in cost to the BMW.

Riche670

In the same class and price range (roughly) you could get the Audi TT 3.2 DSG 2003. That would give you the comfort of the automatic in traffic, but the Top Gear team concur that it's a tad on the boring side when you put the foot down.. also the tax might be in the higher band, not sure on the emissions.

RobAMerc

It depends on what you'd be doing with it.

The S2000 is no doubt a class act - but it would probably drive you nuts if you've to take it on long spins and just day to day living. And the interior is pure "computer geek" special.

The BMW would probably be a better all rounder - easier to live with but less of an out an out blast at the weekends sports car, although its probably close and its gonna have a 6 pot for the aura drama ( it really matters in a drop top )

The S2000 is likely to depreciate less too.

But I am sure the BMW vs Honda brigade will make this one run and run.

Gumbo

Riche670 wrote: »

In the same class and price range (roughly) you could get the Audi TT 3.2 DSG 2003. That would give you the comfort of the automatic in traffic, but the Top Gear team concur that it's a tad on the boring side when you put the foot down.. also the tax might be in the higher band, not sure on the emissions.

makes no difference at all riche, as its a 2003 car it will be taxed on engine cc so that means €1491 per year against the €590 for the 2.0 on the S2000 and of course the €1231 for the bmw.

my opinion is the S2000 is a better drivers car but if im completely honest i would take the Z4 over it with the 3 litre (231bhp engine) and auto box.

Ferris

kceire wrote: »

makes no difference at all riche, as its a 2003 car it will be taxed on engine cc so that means €1491 per year against the €791 for the 2.2 on the S2000 and of course the €1231 for the bmw.

my opinion is the S2000 is a better drivers car but if im completely honest i would take the Z4 over it with the 3 litre (231bhp engine) and auto box.

Yeah I drove a 225 TT a long time ago and it just felt like a fast golf, my last car was a golf so I'm not interested in one.

Isn't the s2000 a 2L? It does win on the tax front alright but that only works out at 50euro difference a month if you annualise the cost difference.

cpoh1

RobAMerc wrote: »

It depends on what you'd be doing with it.

The S2000 is no doubt a class act - but it would probably drive you nuts if you've to take it on long spins and just day to day living. And the interior is pure "computer geek" special.

The BMW would probably be a better all rounder - easier to live with but less of an out an out blast at the weekends sports car, although its probably close and its gonna have a 6 pot for the aura drama ( it really matters in a drop top )

The S2000 is likely to depreciate less too.

But I am sure the BMW vs Honda brigade will make this one run and run.

I dont think you can sum it up much better than that! Best to go out and drive both ferris.

To the other poster wiith the s2k and heavy clutch, check your clutch master cylinder for any leaks (in engine bay and above pedals in cockpit), otherwise it could be the clutch release bearing, the s2000's i drove had lovely soft clutches.

Gumbo

Ferris wrote: »

Yeah I drove a 225 TT a long time ago and it just felt like a fast golf, my last car was a golf so I'm not interested in one.

Isn't the s2000 a 2L? It does win on the tax front alright but that only works out at 50euro difference a month if you annualise the cost difference.

its a 2.0 DOHC 237bhp engine tucked away in there.

it is indeed a 2 litre thats even better as it drops the tax to €590 per year....happy days!

Ferris

kceire wrote: »

im sure its a 2.2 DOHC 237bhp engine tucked away in there.

Nope, 2L:-

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/index.htm?md=146&

Biro

kceire wrote: »

im sure its a 2.2 DOHC 237bhp engine tucked away in there, i could be wrong though!

if it is indeed a 2 litre thats even better as it drops the tax to €590 per year....happy days!

Nope, it's a 2 litre 4cyl DOHC 237bhp engine. You're thinking of the US version, 2.2 and I think less power. Everywhere else got the proper 2 litre engine, not the de-tuned bigger thing.

Kamili

Ferris wrote: »

Good point, 90% of my driving is in Dublin traffic.

Yup, it is actually quite annoying in the S as the car doesn't like first gear at all and the clutch is quite sportsy so doesn't handle as well.

Comparison here might be of use...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_S2000
and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_Z4

Seems there are more horses in the s2000 but at more revs, that said the z4 has more torque.
The Honda will rev forever too which with the vtec is great fun! I must say I really do adore my S, which is absolute great fun to drive, just wish I didn't have to drive it in Dublin!

Kamili

cpoh1 wrote: »

To the other poster wiith the s2k and heavy clutch, check your clutch master cylinder for any leaks (in engine bay and above pedals in cockpit), otherwise it could be the clutch release bearing, the s2000's i drove had lovely soft clutches.

Its not that the clutch is massively heavy, just annoying in heavy traffic.
Have had it checked and no leaks!

TCP/IP

Ferris wrote: »

Unbelievable, it looks to be a nice car alright. Did you trade it in to them or was it passed on from a main dealer?

I sold it to a trader as I needed rid of it with a Boxster S been delivered. Very tidy car. I put a brand new soft top on it in Jan as the old one was marked at a cost of 3k.

When i traded it car needed a service so make sure that was done on it. Always hand washed by me and waxed and I am also a non smoker as well. Super car. If you want any other details please feel free to PM me.

JHMEG

People seem to be recommending the 3L Z4 with auto box. A few things strike me about that:
a) Am I the only one who thinks an auto box in a sports car isn't a sports car?
b) The 3L doesn't produce a lot of power (less than the S2k actually) but you are paying a lot on road tax.
c) A 3L engine is going to be very heavy, relatively speaking, and pulling on the nose
d) Z4 is American-built (I think). Put it all together: heavy, front engined, 3L automatic, American-built. More of a tourer than a sports car?
e) Bangle styling is controversial. It's growing on me from most angles, but not the front. Never mind me tho.

HashSlinging

The BM produces a lot more "Torque" than the S2K

BMW - 300 N·m (220 ft·lbf) @ 3500

Honda - 207 N·m (153 ft·lbf) @ 7500 rpm

JHMEG

HashSlinging wrote: »

The BM produces a lot more "Torque" than the S2K

BMW - 300 N·m (220 ft·lbf) @ 3500

Honda - 207 N·m (153 ft·lbf) @ 7500 rpm

Which again would support the relaxed tourer hypothesis...

Ferris

JHMEG wrote: »

People seem to be recommending the 3L Z4 with auto box. A few things strike me about that:
a) Am I the only one who thinks an auto box in a sports car isn't a sports car?
b) The 3L doesn't produce a lot of power (less than the S2k actually) but you are paying a lot on road tax.
c) A 3L engine is going to be very heavy, relatively speaking, and pulling on the nose
d) Z4 is American-built (I think). Put it all together: heavy, front engined, 3L automatic, American-built. More of a tourer than a sports car?
e) Bangle styling is controversial. It's growing on me from most angles, but not the front. Never mind me tho.

a) Appearantly its a good auto but I take your point
b) true, performance is the same relatively speaking, same could be sai of the porsche boxster.
c) M54B - series is one of the lightest 6cyl engines ever produced, see wikipedia.
d) By repute it has too much grip and stiff suspension, not american really.
e) Hated the styling when they came out but I like it now.

s2000 is the more focused sportscar alright. Basically I have to drive a Z4 pretty soon to see which one I like.

JHMEG

Ferris wrote: »

c) M54B - series is one of the lightest 6cyl engines ever produced, see wikipedia.

Can't find anything about weight in the wikipedia M54 page, but this made me smile!:)

The S54 used to be known as the Engine of Damocles because of the tendency of early production M3s to explode spectacularly at elevated engine speeds.

Z4s don't seem to come with the M54 engines any more. An all new lighter engine series is now used.

JHMEG

Z4, S2000 and Boxter on Top Gear. For entertainment purposes only!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M--kAu6XpKY

Victor_M

Hilariously you pick and choose (as usual) out of context quotes and examples to reinforce your bias. eg you forgot to quote this

"The S54 won the International Engine of the Year award overall for 2001, and also claimed the "Best New Engine" that year as well as won the 3-4 L category for six straight years in a row from 2001 through 2006 - so far. The S54 was also on the Ward's 10 Best Engines list for 2002 through 2004."

Anyhoo, the op needs to test both and decide whether he wants a more relaxed civilised motoring experience with plenty of horses and torque or a high revving needs to be pushed all the time to get anything out of it high power low torque experience.

As I mentioned earlier I had a good run in the S2000 a few weeks ago and although it's not for me it was fun for a short while, but at the end of the day it's a bit like those new golf 1.4 GT's knocking around they are ringing a small CC'd 4 pot engine to within an inch of it's life to get the performance out of it, and that is not for everyone.

By the way, Clarksons main defence of the S in that clip Jhmeg* linked was the €7.5 price difference which is no longer the case, as they seem to be in or around the same price the only thing left really was the slightly faster roof.

*the patron saint of Honda

HashSlinging

please lets not go down the route of bmw winning awards, its a panel who pick that. Base it on recent racing and bmw wins are thin BTCC?

Victor_M

HashSlinging wrote: »

please lets not go down the route of bmw winning awards, its a panel who pick that. Base it on recent racing and bmw wins are thin BTCC?

I only chose that example to offset Jhmegs selectivity, couldn't really care about those awards TBH, sure the fiat panda won loads!

Bottom line OP, the fanboy(s) (well only one really, thanks for showing up, again! Jhmeg) are out in full force, drive both yourself and let us know what you think, either way you are choosing between 2 great cars.

HashSlinging

+1

JHMEG

Victor, your little obsession with me is leading me to conclude only one thing...



Anyway, you're going on the Ignore list and there you shall stay.